posted December 13, 2009 04:53 AM            

I'm certain it's impossible to name a sect of Christians that doesn't emphasize preferred parts of the Bible while ignoring other parts, so I see nothing wrong with it here. As far as I'm concerned ALL Christianity is "cafeteria Christianity" (and thank goodness as when I first read the Bible I became terrified of those who called themselves "Bible Believing Christians" and claiming to believe it literal), they just pick & choose what to believe and what to overlook and those choices determines their sect or denomination. And by using this universal method, the Bible also allows for astrology to be used.

posted December 13, 2009 07:02 AM            

I went to Catholic school, we went to mass every morning, and I never recall one time being lectured against Astrology. It just was never discussed, so it probably does matter which sect of Christianity one belongs to, as far as the practice of astrology.

Geography has alot to do with this as well. I'm referring to America, since that is where I live. But, I am only an hour away from Kentucky, where it is ILLEGAL to charge for any type of physic/divination reading.

posted December 13, 2009 02:17 PM              

Isn't ALL Life "cafeteria Life"? Don't we pick and choose what to accentuate and what not to? Isn't the world, in addition to having its own sort of perfection and completeness, also "just" raw material for us to make of it something more? Maybe something more human, but made in the image of God. The Bible is a strange phenomenon. So many writings that have no business in the same book. And, yet, there they are. So, what do we make of it? We have to make something of it. Do we take it all together, as one thing, just because that's how it's been transmitted to us, in the 21st century? Or do we endeavor to take what has particular meaning for ourselves? You know, in Hebrew, words can have so many meanings. Just reading Hebrew is a process of separating wheat from chaff, and making choices. Cherry picking, cafeteria style. Because you have to see something, you have to believe in some interpretation; of a word, of the world, Life, or Christianity. Otherwise, its just a chaotic mess of paradoxes and contradicting accounts. Ultimately, however we may squirm, it all comes down to us. It's on us, to decide what we will make of anything. Nothing can tell us what it is apart from us; only how it appears to our point of view. And when we look at anything, we look at ourselves. Most people, and most "Christians", do this unconsciously. Some do it in full awareness of the choices they are making, and the channels they are creating in hopes of reaching something truly divine. Also, that they are casting their vote for a definition, or nominating a denomination, of "Christianity" which speaks to their highest understanding. Aware that traditions are living things, that grow and transform, and have lives of their own, apart from the intentions of their creators. Or even their Creator. They are not perfect. But neither are they disgarded on account of their imperfections. Lack of perfection is only the gravity which draws us towards God, and without which, we would not be human, and would not aspire or glory in the journey of our Divine Approach. The Truth is not something we can possess or know. But the refinement of our understanding of Truth is what makes the spiritual life possible. We may never have the ultimate answer to questions like, "Who was/is Jesus?, "Who or what is the Christ?", "What is the Soul and its relationship to the Spirit?", "What is the true Christian faith?", "What is the meaning of life?," etc. But the defining and refining of these questions, and the re-defining of how we attempt to define these questions, is the crux of our relationship to God, Life, and Truth. To know is not our business. But to seek. And to experiment with Ways of seeking, and seeing.

posted December 13, 2009 02:43 PM              

quote:

---

I think I am a Christian when I honestly, and sincerely (not just lip service) want the best for someone, and can feel happy for them even though they are not doing what I wish them to do. Releasing ego and expectations are the times when I feel closest to God. Letting go. Having faith. Being willing to suffer and sit with it, without trying to force my will to an outcome ~ these moments for me are few, unfortunately, but ultimately sublime.

---

Beautiful, Gypsee.

The world desperately needs
people who see the way you do.

Just as it needs to value
a wide variety of perspectives.

There are times when a firm stance
can alienate us and only push us deeper
and deeper into the conflict between
defensiveness and self-reproach
which is already devouring our will; --
to serve God, ourselves, or anything at all.

Just as there are times when we delight in
honoring our ideals and humbling ourselves;
when we'll be open to the sober counsel
of a caring and objective friend.

Sometimes we bear with a person
because it is the easier thing to do.
Confronting somebody with harsh truth,
and challenging them to seize the moment
that determines the rest of their life,
is not something most people want to do.
Some families will enable a person for years
before they risk an intervention, and risk
alienating that person from themselves.

I admit, I don't know when to be patient,
just listening and understanding what's shared,
trying only to be receptive in my compassion,
and when to assert something that feels important.
I try to listen to my intuition. I doubt myself,
and hesitate to put my foot down and take a stance,
but then, sometimes, I just feel compelled to
put forward a point of view that may not be easily
or immmediately appreciated by my friend.

I think it depends on many things.
And I dont know what most of them are.

I just play it by heart,
and hope for the best.

posted December 13, 2009 02:53 PM              

And so without a thought I take a final walk
The tide of public opinion had started to abate
The neighbours, bless them, had turned out to be all talk
I could see their frightened faces
peering at me through the gate

I was looking for an end to this, for some kind of closure
Time moved so rapidly, I had no hope of keeping track of it
I thought of my friends who had died of exposure
And I remembered other ones who had died from the lack of it

And in my best shoes I started falling forward down the street
I stopped at a church and jostled through the crowd
Love followed just behind me, panting at my feet
As the steeple tore the stomach from a lonely little cloud

Inside I sat, seeking the presence of a God
Searched through the pictures in a leather-bound book
And I found a woolly lamb dozing in an issue of blood
And a gilled Jesus shivering on a fisherman's hook

And Babe
It seems so long
Since you've been gone
Away

And I
Just got to say
That it grows darker with the day

Back on the street I saw a great big smiling sun
It was a Good day and an Evil day, it all was bright and new
And it seemed to me that most destruction was being done
By those who could not choose between the two

Amateurs, dilettantes, hacks, cowboys, clones
The streets groan with little Caesars, Napoleons and c*nts
With their building blocks and their tiny plastic phones
Counting on their fingers, with crumbs down their fronts

I passed by your garden, saw you with your flowers
The Magnolias, Camellias and Azaleas so sweet
And I stood there invisible in the panicking crowds
You looked so beautiful in the rising heat

I smell smoke, see little fires bursting on the lawns
People carry on regardless, listening to their hands
Great cracks appear in the pavement, the earth yawns
Bored and disgusted, to do us down

Babe
It seems so long
Since you've been gone

And I
Just got to say
That it grows darker with the day

These streets are frozen now. I come and go
Full of a longing for something I do not know
My father sits slumped in the deepening snow
As I search, in and out, above, about,
And below

It seems so long
Since you've been gone
And you went away

posted December 20, 2009 01:09 AM            

I was re-reading this thread tonight. sometimes, it is so weird, whatever you write means one thing to me one minute, and another minute it feels like something else. Are you a chameleon? lol.

But seriously, before your poem when you spoke about asserting you will and such~ Course I know your with my "bestie" and all, and everything fell together just when it was supposed to. But my question to you, and you can take this personal or simply rhetorical, if you "knew" like in your soul, that you were supposed to be with a certain individual, but maybe they were a bit slower in coming around to your point of view, would you still be assertive and insistant, fearing rejection and all that good stuff? Or would that be a situation in which you would leave up to destiny. I'm just curious as to how others work in these regards.

You've a cappie rising, right? Maybe you have the wisdom, and patience to pace things and wait it out.

posted December 20, 2009 05:04 AM            

I would leave them come up to the conclusion themselves, and meanwhile, reconsider the reasons why I want it, how I want it, what I exactly I'm ready to accept, what not ready, if i'm willing to compromise... all that sort of things, so when it happens, I'm there ready to deal with him and his needs, having sorted mine.

ps: this is theoretical in my case, but as far as possible, this would be my way of proceeding.

posted December 20, 2009 12:13 PM            

But you see, you included alot of thinking and contemplating in your answer. Not my strong suit with that Aries Asc. I tend to go on impulse. It's a battle inside, because the Sag parts want to philosophize the thing to death, and give it some sort of label. And the dreaded Libra Moon, (yes I said dreaded, although some adore theirs) makes me feel completely dependant on the other persons actions to determine my own mood or emotional mindset for that particular day, or even hour. It is exhausting.
I should add though, that this is a re-newed relationship, not a newbie, so some things have already been established from the past. However, 23 years later, there are much more complicated details to consider than when we were kids and madly in love. Like, who moves to whoms state? Who uproots children or possibly gets only partial custody? Things of that nature.
So yes, I see the validity in thinking it through carefully.
Yet, the other side of me says, life is short, grab it and run with it, it may never happen again.

I would definetly be doing something physical with this energy if I wasn't ill for the last 3 months. It DOES help alot.

posted December 22, 2009 03:54 PM              

quote:

---

was re-reading this thread tonight. sometimes, it is so weird, whatever you write means one thing to me one minute, and another minute it feels like something else.

---

My experience is similar.

quote:

---

Are you a chameleon? lol.

---

Yes, I think, something like that.

quote:

---

But seriously, before your poem when you spoke about asserting you will and such~ Course I know your with my "bestie" and all, and everything fell together just when it was supposed to.

---

Oh, good.
Mostly luck there.
If my words were in quotes,
after the quotes, it would read,
", he shot in the dark".

quote:

---

But my question to you, and you can take this personal or simply rhetorical, if you "knew" like in your soul, that you were supposed to be with a certain individual, but maybe they were a bit slower in coming around to your point of view, would you still be assertive and insistant, fearing rejection and all that good stuff? Or would that be a situation in which you would leave up to destiny. I'm just curious as to how others work in these regards.

---

Well, if you ask me,
all situations are unique.
There could be few, but,
more likely, there are many
factors to consider, and
the most relevant of those
is the heart of the person
who is asking the question.
And that's something nobody
can really advise you on.
But, since people generally
arent fond of this answer,
i'll try to say something less vague;
with the result that i am
necessarily projecting.

Now, I say the heart tells all,
but I also say the heart is fickle,
and will deceive you, if you let her.

Nothing is more prone to misinterpretation
than the feeling that we "know" something.

We feel something.
And we interpret that feeling.

If we want it bad enough,
we can convince ourselves
that it is meant to be.

But maybe that is
as it ought to be,
since, if we want it bad enough,
we can sometimes make it happen.

And, even if we can't,
there are worse ways to spend
(though some would say "waste") your life,
than by trying to force a dream.

Trying to force the impossible
is always better than giving up,
or going after something you dont want,
just because it is more attainable.

F-ck that sh-t.

If I thought it was meant to be --
if I felt it so strongly --
I would tear the whole world apart.
I'd do anything to make her see.

Granted, I'm not tied down
with a wife or a child,
but if, god forbid, I found
myself in that situation, then,
I suppose, I'd neglect everything --
work, art, wife, child, hope, home, --
for the sake of my heart's desire;
because, if I neglect my heart,
I am worse than nothing to them.

I don't know how I'd do it, though.
It would ruin my family to tell the truth,
but I'm too honest, or just too poor a liar,
to carry on an affair in secret, --
so, hopefully, I'd be single when
I met this hypothetical person.

But, like I said, there are
so many factors of which I'm unaware,
and I get frustrated with these questions.
Like, all those tests with the yes or no,
or multiple choice, and you have to answer,
but the questions are so ******* vague,
with no bearing on the practical details,
that you'd have to be an idiot to even
think you could answer them at all.

quote:

---

You've a cappie rising, right? Maybe you have the wisdom, and patience to pace things and wait it out.

---

ha!
Am I'm very fixed,
but my mars/merc in sag
isnt very patient.
Still, if I knew,
really knew, then,
yeah, I might wait.

I also think that sometimes
we can slow the process down
if we try too hard to speed it up.
Guys, especially, get skittish,
when you give them the full court press.
Sometimes all you need to do is detach,
or make it seem like you are detaching,
and he will be chasing you.

Unfortuneately, this is the kind of cliche advice
that you hear when you're not in love and say, "Duh",
but, when you're in love, and need to hear it, its not so easy.

quote:

---

I have an Aries rising, ME Tarzan, HE Jane, you see where I'm coming from?? LOL> I know you're busy this week, so whenever you get to it.

---

Thanks, yeah, I was busy.
I'm not sure what to say.
While I understand your dilemma,
I would think, if he's your man,
he won't be put-off by your chutzpah.
He'll find it a breath of fresh air.
And even if he is slower to perceive
what your Aries intuition tells you,
he may appreciate being urged to see it.
Then again, he may not.
I don't know him, and it all depends
of what sort of chap he is.

I know it can be complicated
when some of the synastry is perfect
and other places don't really fit.

I wish I had better words for you.

take care Gypsee

posted December 24, 2009 10:36 AM            

Recently he said that he was depressed (pisces/sun, sco/asc, and cancer/moon) and questioning his own worth and reason for even being on the planet. And he said " I don't have the energy to keep up with you."

LOL! Like I haven't heard that my whole life ~ musical example.... (tried to post the vid link, but none of them would let me, anyway 'The Black Crowes' "Hard To Handle."

Bearing in mind while the singer and I have the same suns, he has not the "will conquer and have my way with you, Aries Asc." Still, I dig him cuz, he thinks like me. Oh, this is a remake by the way, but he chose it for a reason I suppose. So just listen and change all the she's to he's and whatnots....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acmb6tkOYj4&feature=related

Anyway, Yin has me convinced that my sheer willpower and determination alone will make me the victor. *using alot of Aries battle analogies, mostly to amuse you*

Anyway I dig what you say about how sometimes we so believe and convince our brains that this is right for x and y reason, and then totally romanticize the whole thing, which mostly ends up a dismal failure, I've been guilty of that, cept every other time there was always a red flag, course I was ignoring it completely, and this time there is not. I mean it.

I told him "God gave me feelings to feel and to express, that is the way I'm made. Once before you said I didn't love you enough, and now you feel I love you too much...would you really prefer mediocrity? Cause, I'm not sure I can squish my personality into a happy meal box for you. It is what it is."

I dunno. Thanks for listening V, somehow I find alot of comfort in your words. And my girl (oops your girl) well she gives me that too, in a sunny side up Sag way that always leaves the door open for posibility.

posted December 24, 2009 10:53 AM              

I was worried I might have said
exactly the opposite of the right thing.

I've used this analogy before, but,
in giving advice, I'm not a sharpshooter,
but more of a shotgun toting lunatic.

I shoot my mouth off,
and say everything I can think of,
and just see what sticks.

I'm glad something stuck.

Wow, that guy is watery, huh?
I'd encourage you to play it cool,
and listen for his mood changes,
rather than bulldoze over all
the subtle things before he can
nurture them into expression.
He needs emotional support now
(and I know that you do, too),
not a lot of desperate urging.
Give him time and space,
and he may come running.
But if you're determined
not to let this change you,
or your firey ways, then,
by all means, fire at will,
and just hope for the best.
I'm sorry if that's too harsh.

The last thing you want to hear,
probably, is to focus on yourself,
and see to your own healing.
But that's the only thing I can
think of that may work now.

my best,
V

posted December 24, 2009 11:52 AM            

It is an ego battle sometimes.

And yes, he's very watery and I'm firey and I think the two are a magnetic combo in the right circumstances. Fire has burned so hot for so long, always at the will of others, always providing warmth and light, the centerpeice for gatherings, musings and inspiration. And when they (these people (?) are done with us, they douse us out until we become a necessity again. But while we may be deflamed, still we burn in embers. Fire does not forget.

And water, it also suffers people having their way with it. Use me up for all your self serving reasons. Search and dig to my bottom to find valuable treasures that you think belong to YOU? Water, it flows, and it crashes. It suffers coldness and darkness, and also warmth and sun.
Fire sees it's reflection in water and is pleased that is beautiful, not only just functional or entertaining, or even hurtful.
Water gazes up and fire stretching her golden limbs to the sky and thinks, I would like to go there with her. I would like to feel the warmth. What does each color mean? The orange flame, the white hot, the mysterious blue core. She warms my depths.

This is my theory on fire and water. At least the attraction part, I've got a ton of other ones that of course, go against conventional astrology.

But you get it.

And to keep in the subject of your thread, you are a Christian when you help a friend who you know needs it. That is selfless and it makes God smile.