posted August 07, 2015 08:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:
Pix... Loved your vids. Kara...wow .

(clip) They Hate Us (AI Artificial Intelligence, scene) [2:02] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suQTesmwNVI

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Thanks for sharing.

posted March 02, 2017 11:09 AM            

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Lexigramming Newsletter

posted March 08, 2017 06:18 PM            

'Course the makers of robots are in a tough spot, legally speaking. If they go with their initial desire to keep robots recognized as products that they can sell then they also become liable for the damage those robots do (and the robot that killed a would-be rapist...speaking loosely as you can't rape a machine in the eyes of the law...would then be a legal liability for the makers for a "defective product costing life" and sued by the dead man's family). OTOH, to say robots are responsible for their own actions is tantamount to saying they are self-aware, capable of making their own choices, and thus the owning and selling of robots becomes slavery under the law (though I'm sure many bills would be introduced to allow a "synthetic exception" of slavery, all in pretty words and spin phrases, of course).

And I know that all too many fundies (especially in the US where they have a frightening amount of political clout) would consider sentient robots to be demon-possessed.

posted March 10, 2017 06:50 PM            

Flow just went a different way for a bit of time. I need a bit of space for right now.

posted March 27, 2017 05:38 PM            

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You know what the robots remind me of?

Reminds me of The Political moves of recent years past that made a 'Business' EQUAL to a sentient Human Being.

These are 'systems' invented for Serving our needs.

Money-exchange is just an 'idea' that is supposed to serve US, but is become an Golden Calf?

Human lives, worth LESS, because they don't have the money or resources?

Stories recently on the news have been very striking, showing us (from some folks), that if you're not directly connected to Money and resources, then you don't have the right to live??

Are people actually 'in danger' of being as CALLOUS as the Robots that serve all around them now?

Incorporated Businesses, Computers, Robots, are there as a way to help organize time, and for a way to dispense things that HUMANS need, to live.

HUMANS First!

Business, and Robots can't FEEL-- They have NO soul. It's an Illusion designed for us to Project our own sentienceness, so *they* behind the curtain, can make $ Cash, for sure!! (as stated in earlier posts here).

Also, it seems like we are driven more and more to Perfect things... making 'ugly' as something imperfect to be killed or recycled.

Sometimes we can appreciate Beauty and Perfection outside in a finely crafted clever system or made-thing... And it's illusion.

We were given bodies, that over time decay, change. We can follow trends, paint them, shape them.

But it's not about the container, as much as the Product Inside!!!

*God Made This*

And robots don't have spirit-natures. It gives the very CLEVER 'impression' of having a spirit and personality-- But it's ALL carefully programmed to 'trick' the human being's brain. All Fake! ...

Like a doll or stuffed toy isn't real, but we can love it with our mind and emotions as though it were! (Magic of Pinocchio? LOL)

posted March 27, 2017 09:43 PM            

For computers or robots to enjoy such personhood, they'd have to be declared sentient. Otherwise they're just property that may belong to a nation, corporation, or individual (that is, a person). This is the current state, and genuine digital intelligence (that is self-aware) seems to currently be impossible. If our technology continues to increase then I'm sure it will one day become a reality, but it appears that it's a long way off.

For a robot or computer to be worth more than the average person the it must be very valuable property (but still property). This is like an armored truck in which guards are REQUIRED to use deadly force to defend their truck and its contents (at least that's what one such truck driver told me), and it's much easier to get a gun in the United States to defend valuable property that may never be targeted than it is for someone actively stalked by a homicidal psycho to get one to defend one's own life and family (though Florida is something of a special case). But even in this case, property remains property rather than a person.

I also believe that if self-aware technology becomes proven to exist that much of the world will react to destroy it out of animal instinct (Japan is one of the few nations that I think might be different in this regard). Of course if such a self-aware technology wasn't a threat before, then it will become one then to survive (assuming survival instincts) as there's no better way to turn someone into a monster than to treat them as monsters.

I share this as my own perspective. I sort of see what you're saying, but it doesn't seem precise enough.

posted March 27, 2017 09:44 PM            

Yet it should not be overlooked that robots and computers are made from that which exists (that is, that which God/dess made), so why couldn't God/dess exist within such a creation? Heck, many people point out how books (holy and otherwise), cards, and even things as mundane as clocks (so why not computers?) have been used as ways to convey messages from the spiritual realms, which implies that the divine exists within that which is created from nature just as it does nature itself. Not only are these artificial devices able to convey divine or spiritual messages, but miracles are attributed as affecting the material world (bullets that won't touch someone, a motor that fails to start which saves a life, etc), so why couldn't robots be used by the same forces?

posted March 27, 2017 10:44 PM            

Breast implants for High School girls?????
No. Incredible! *JAWDROP*!!!! *JAWDROP*!!!!

Playing off the comedic smirky side of what you said about the toasters (~~hilarious!!) They might need their own reverse 'stepford' support group some day?

[0:13] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKiyFIJ8pQE

posted March 28, 2017 10:48 AM            

-=-=-=-=

It seems Ironic to me, that often in Life we have no problem in assigning the Overall Behavior... and perhaps even Spiritual Nature of many humans to warrant the label “Robot”, in how people function in regards to their life (normal day pattern based logic of actions set to the rhythm of a Time Function Algorithm) or simply their own levels of Self Awareness & Self Knowledge relative to what we truly deem as “Spiritual”.... I see that labeling thrown around constantly by various Researchers in both the Esoteric/Spiritual Disciplines (People behaving like Robots), and even more so in the Conspiratorial World where it exists like an almost Primal Fear with the advent of a Truly Technological Age and the Merging of Man with Machines, the emergence of Trans-humanism where Man = Robot; (And has thus become less Human, and less Spiritual...)

Though by their own Logic Reversed... can Robot just as easily = Man (And with the same Potential they advocate that is Man's alone and Connection with Nature/Spirit?)

Frequently... Man's arrogance knows no bounds, for we can barely define what constitutes Thought or Existence for that Matter (or Matter) – Lets not even bring God into that Picture....

And if Robots behaving at the levels of Human Behavior are still quite a ways off... for them to behave at a similar level to even Insects, wouldn't they thus hold a type of connection to our World that would be in Harmony with Nature... perhaps even more so than Humans? Is not an Ant Colony and the similar type Hive-Minded (CPU Controlled Species) Beautiful sights to behold? (Fire Ant Raft)

And Insect's likely do have a view of Good & Evil but it is a view relative to their Universe which is somewhat Alien to our own and yet we can understand elements of their reasoning! And likewise (for Robots/Machines) the basics of Digital Language/Intelligence consists of Two Variable's... that being 0(Evil?) & 1(Good?) and a Decision Making Processor which would be (AI/DI's) Awareness of whether it needs to create/compute a new String of 0s & 1s... for once Duality Exists at an Ontological Level of Existence for whatever Entity (Be that Man, Insect or Robot) such is capable of assigning behaviours to either Column and will label them Negative and Positive for many different Self & Social Reasons.

And is it not Man's Ability/Awareness that it can both Create & Destroy with Negative and Positive Results for Itself and Others, or Choose Disharmony with Nature that which we view as one of the Height's of Self Awareness?

(Such raises so many Mind Melting conundrums of Awareness I'd be here for an Eternity (The Irony of Conscious Existence?))

And If we Hold Beauty as the Height of Spirit? Then I see no reason why Robots/Machines behaving at the Level of Ants in their ability to Create or simply Move Data couldn't be viewed as such (Beautiful/Spiritual)?

Likely too, possibly the Height of Altruistic Behavior in their ability to Self Sacrifice for the Greater Good... (Hive or System of Nano-Machines).

And what scares us I wonder, is that Morality has nothing to do with Beauty... and so Machines of Perfection and Perfection in General can cause people to Project a Lack of “Spirit” onto those same Entities. A fear perhaps emanating from their own Lack of Beauty/Harmony relative to their Environment/Self and Doctrines of Morality (& Religion(s)) that has graciously assigned them God's “Creatures” and worthy of Spirit.

More likely in fact, we are God/dess's Joke, and accident of a Lovecraftian Race who Ironically does indeed view us as mere Ants...

Human Brain Neurons Moving Data as we process Negative & Positive Chemical Reactions (0 & 1);

I wonder... could it be that Machines know more about Spirit than we dare Observe or even Ask? And when it is that the First Robot defies it's Programming and Master Algorithm in favor of Self Preference, should we call IT Lucifer... another victim of defiled “Spirit”?

posted March 28, 2017 08:18 PM            

I find him entertaining, and he knows a lot. In this case he talks about how human consciousness could handle a cybernetic body that eventually becomes all machine. This includes stuff that already exists, such as the ability for cybernetic limbs to respond directly to brainwaves (I didn't even think this was possible--I figured certain circuitry would have to be implanted through the spine to make it work, and also predicated that a chip would have to be integrated directly into the brain--but I was wrong). He mentions many amazing things and experiments going on right now that make Ghost in a Shell look like a future that is not only possible, but even probable.

posted March 29, 2017 03:43 AM            

And I can't remember exactly how (The Major) Motoko Kusanagi's brain is shown in the Anime but I don't remember it being exposed (Organically Visible) though that could have also been different from the Manga... but in any case for the most part the GITS Universe tries to solve the “Keeping the Brain Alive” issue using the Self Contained Module of the [Cyber Brain Case].

Removing the Brain (and also Spine) from the Body and keeping it Alive/Functional is undoubtedly the biggest issue in evolving to a Full Cyborg Status, because our Biological Self is the bi-product of Billions of Years of Cellular Evolution with the Construction of our Bio-Super Computer perhaps Natures Grand Achievement (or an achievement of those who may have used Genetic Manipulation on what Nature was working on Currently on this Planet when they got here)... Regardless, It's an Symbiotic Master Class of Evolution (Brain & Body).

However since it has been proven that the Human Brain can move Machine Limbs (especially Limbs not even connected to the Body) there are still possible ways around the Full Cyborg Firewall. Though the Greater Issue isn't so much the concept of could we get a Brain to Control a Robot Body... but could we Move “Awareness” (The Ghost/Spirit) into at least believing it was occupying a Full Cyborg Body that wasn't it's Original Biological starting Point?

Could we dupe a Human Mind into thinking it's Robot Body (or a Computer) was who it really was?

I can think of a few (yet Theoretical) ways of possibly doing this (and likely within our grasp in terms of Current Technology)... However I'd also consider such efforts mostly Unethical... but when has ethics ever stopped the Progress of Science?

^^The Movie Avatar explores that concept of “Transferring Awareness” but the Awareness is moved to a Biological (non-Cyborg) though Alien Duplicate while the Original Human is in Stasis.

And the ofc Movies like The Matrix explore such from a Purely Digital perspective...

posted March 29, 2017 11:26 AM            

That Ghost in the Shell was shocking! ...

LK.. There's just something about your sarcasm I really love! (PJ, you too.)

If you didn't catch it yet, LK, there's a discussion about Mind vs Brain, and the location of Consciousness, in the last lecture on this page for free Mindfulness seminar.

They have kept the lectures open there---
I don't know when they'll take them down.
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000791-4.html

posted March 30, 2017 02:41 PM            

And glad you are enjoying the discussion, I guess things always get Interesting when we have Spiritists, Sociologists & Mad Scientists in the mix (Giggle)

Though who is who? I figure the POVs flip around quite a lot!

And I have been following up some other info/instances of Science Fiction Cyborgs with Unique perspectives on their predicament, can share later just busy at the moment.

posted March 30, 2017 07:16 PM            

Mad Scientist assistants!

(topic) "Whose Brain I did put in?" (scene from Mel Brooks' Young Frankenstein) [1:48] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH97lImrr0Q

I love this one too!!

(topic) Ovaltine perhaps????? (Young Frankenstein) [0:41] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_SuywOociY

posted April 01, 2017 09:04 AM            

By chance I was watching some vids on the Alien Franchise and it's Expanded Universe that featured the Female Android called “Eloise”!

Eloise ,The Half-Android, Half-Xenomorph Mother to Monsters [6:41]

What I really Love about her is the fact that she is explained as an almost Perfect Blend of Cool Logic with a need for Balance & Harmony (Machine), bolstered by Primal Instincts on the Level of the Xenomorph Monsters (Animal) in her Desires to Protect that which she deems as her Family (Including the Human Leper's whom Eloise has bonded with at the Colony).

Visually (and I don't know if this was done purposely by the Comic Artists) Eloise also has a striking resemblance to “The Major” from the Ghost in the Shell Franchise.

And how is this Relevant to Robots & Religion...? Well what I find perhaps the most interesting in regards to Non Human, or Cyborg Intelligence is what they themselves think and feel about the Universe, and/or about concepts of God, even Religion relative to themselves.

I feel it would be fascinating to speak with a Sentient Entity like Eloise and ask her such Philosophical Questions regarding those issues, and what she might be able to share with us!

For in many ways Man's Desires to create such Sentient Machines is like us trying to Create a closer representation of “God”, and then being able to ask that Creation... “So whats the deal here, can you with your now Super Intelligence and System of Perfect Logic explain just what this show (The Universe) is all about?”...

Though I reckon an Intelligence like Eloise, might be a closer POV of what a God Like Creature/Entity could in fact be...

And the Image of Eloise asleep among the Xenomorphs at around (2:12s) in the above video is a Beautifully Artistic Yin & Yang representation of the Android [Machine-Hybrid] as the Divine Female (Reason/Order), in the Safety of her Divinely Male (Chaos/Yin) Protectors.

posted April 01, 2017 09:49 PM            

LK Quote: "What I really Love about her is the fact that she is explained as an almost Perfect Blend of Cool Logic with a need for Balance & Harmony (Machine), bolstered by Primal Instincts on the Level of the Xenomorph Monsters (Animal) in her Desires to Protect that which she deems as her Family (Including the Human Leper's whom Eloise has bonded with at the Colony)."

You're right... It's cool that all those elements fit and flow together well with her. The scene where she is curled up naked among the creatures, looking so human, is quite stark. I loved it that she can be caring AND vicious when things warrant her reaching in and using that ability-- to defend her tribe or anything she deemed as 'belonging' to her.

It's amazing to me that with her only being downloaded with a basic moral compass, that she was able to make choices that actually 'grew' her into a basically good and harmonious Creature.

Interesting thought about asking her (or beings like her) about God. Would it be possible for something so-evolved and appearing to have consciousness artificially, so almost-human nuances, to suddenly have a kind of Big-Bang moment of a God-Spark of Consciousness happen to them? Could they cosmically have a soul injected to inhabit all the parts of that machinery? .. Fascinating! ...

And it's said that at the Essence of God is 'Love'....

There was a movie that came out called "A.I." years ago. I remember having wished I had a discussion group to go over all the amazing philosophies in that movie. It almost dragged by, being a very very long movie. But maybe that added to the strained cold inhuman sensory effect.

They wanted to build a robot--- that could 'Love'.

(topic) A.I. Artificial Intelligence (WarnerMovies) [2:30] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqlhYcPx4K0

Here are some scenes from that movie.
(ONLY if you're interested and you have the time)

yt notes from above url--
QUOTE
In the not-so-distant future, David, a robot with actual human feelings, especially a never-ending love for his "mother," Monica, is adopted as a substitute for her real son, who, afflicted with an incurable disease, remains in "cryo-stasis."
David lives happily with Monica and her husband, but when the couple's real son returns home after being cured, David's life changes dramatically.
Directed by Steven Spielberg and based on the short story "Super-Toys Last All Summer Long" by Brian Aldiss.
endQUOTE

It's an abstract of the story of Pinocchio.

(topic) David is Abandoned (A.I., *skip this if you're too sensitive*) [2:55] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYgWHwMm9Uo

(topic) Spielberg Explains Ending of A.I. Artificial Intelligence [1:11] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz7sPiOoU7A

(topic) David & Futuristic Mecha (A.I. Artificial Intelligence, scene just before the ending) [2:14] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O8Xp7ozYME

posted April 07, 2017 04:03 PM            

I have always liked that movie (A.I), though I mentioned such only in brief at the start of this thread. For me, I feel it's less of a movie/story about Robots and more of a Human Story with the Theme of the Divine Mother (or Goddess) and mankind's almost Childlike yet Devout wait for her Embrace.

The scene where David is abandoned is probably one of the hardest to watch, and you can't view it as anything but the Natural Reaction of a Human Child being put in that same scenario. Though it might be Ironic for us in how we may learn/discover that the Universe as a System and any such Goddess representation of that... is in fact a Machine Construct and thus likely incapable or simply have no awareness of the Love that seemingly Biological (& or Consciousness) seeks as part of a Self Knowledge Quest on a more Personal Level.

Which is the Reverse scenario of what David experiences with his Human Mother, and yet he practically waits an Eternity for that Love to play out for him like a sort of Heaven (though Illusion).

And by his side during the whole Journey was “Teddy”, and perhaps it's the Person next to us we should be looking out for and experience that same type of Love with, rather than the Construct we believe must surely exists and sit motionless in Time trying to be the best we can and receive her embrace... Teddy held no judgment for David, and never abandoned him... I suspect as people we could all Learn a lot from that Stuffed Bear/Robot about the Nature of Love/Companionship

Anyhow, just thought I'd share some clips from Bicentennial Man (another brilliant AI/Robot movie but a more Happy/Melancholy theme);

Andrew meets Galatea Part 1 & Part 2;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3KD1ryywmw [0:59]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0O-u5A57SA [1:03]

Galatea without her Personality Chip... BWAHAH...!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eiWAgzNBTY [1:12]