posted May 17, 2015 12:42 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Eirlys:

I still see that as successful.

Instead of viewing negatively -- 'the money I won was taken'

Why not view positively?

'I got exactly what I needed... almost to the penny... and

right when I needed it'

I see the difference: no control, really, but still...

it *was* a gain.

That just reminded of my ex-hub (not to imply that your

friend is anything like this, though).

He got money from a relative for a birthday or holiday,

which was nice, because due to his massive expenditures,

we were going to be late on some important bill.. it was

probably the electric.

But he said he didn't want to waste (an adult; according

to age, anyway) his gift money on bills.

I pointed out that getting the money he needed to pay

that bill *was* a gift... how fortunate.

He didn't see it that way, of course.

The marriage was short-lived. :/

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The spell was successful and yet she lost it again as if there was a reaction (that is it wasn't a gift that she got the money to pay her vet bill but rather she had a vet bill to take away the money and had she not cast the spell then her cat wouldn't have been mauled in the first place). And when she overcame her "poverty mindset" then that reaction stopped happening.

posted May 17, 2015 01:18 PM            

She was trying to escape just barely scraping by and not being able to pay all her bills which were intense despite having a very low overhead with no frills (unless you count things like electricity which she needed for her job). She wanted to be able to not constantly stress about it anymore and after she escaped the poverty mindset that she was raised with then she didn't have to so that was her success that she had been looking for all long.

I see.

'... and then had to immediately take her cat to the vet'

was due to an outside attack; not an illness the cat would have

had, whether the money was available or not.

'... had she not cast the spell then her cat wouldn't have been

mauled in the first place'

Hmm.. the flipside of 'we get the love we think we deserve'--

We also get the crap.

And it applies universally, no matter.

Do you think overcoming the mindset would have been sufficient,

on its own?

--

* Not trying to give you a hard time-- on the contrary, your

posts are interesting.

Human nature, the laws of nature (on which you have a firm grasp),

and pretty much everything in between.

No offense intended.

------------------
Nothing is permanent in this wicked world; not even our troubles.

posted May 17, 2015 02:27 PM              

Would you say that people who don't buy into collective beliefs are shielded from outcomes of those beliefs, e.g., influences of a Saturn return? These people may also have a positive mindset that is protective.

Actually, my example was not a good one. Since effects of a Saturn return are hugely open to interpretation, non-believers wouldn't acknowledge the influence anyway.

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I said "Archetype." An Archetype of Justice is one that's done by human standards yet not by any one's singular perspective. It's part of the Collective Unconscious. That means you invoke/evoke Justice and you're going to get the perspective of the species rather than yourself (and very likely you fear being judged by someone who can hurt you at a subconscious level yourself). Perhaps if the person targeted and much of the rest of society AND the caster sincerely thought the target was guilty and that the community needed such a spell to work (and some criminals take pride in being the bane of a community, a wolf among sheep--but other criminals feel that their victims are the real criminals or that otherwise they're justified in doing what they do) then a "spell of justice" would work, but the vast majority of people who cast that spell are simply angry and trying to exploit a loophole around the "harm none" rule...and deep down even the caster knows what s/he is doing (and if they really believed in karma as some just force as defined by humans then they wouldn't be wasting their time with it anyway!)

That is to say Justice isn't real, it's simply a "computer program" of the astral world in which all of us feed into and can magically tap and direct (though it's so powerful now that if you jump into that current you're likely to get swept away by it...though I expect a sufficiently powerful and skilled occultist could "hack" it to gain incredible control but that strikes me as a very dangerous ledge to walk).

I see astrology working the same way. Astrology isn't objectively real and I doubt it would work for people born outside the solar system or even Gaiasphere (at least until enough humans left) but rather it's our belief that feeds into a collective unconscious that is then reflected back at us (in essence, it's a spell in which no one has to use magic anymore, it's now working on automatic)...and that includes the power of Saturn and Pluto, btw. (That is to say if enough people feared the dark so that our moon was called Phobos then the moon would affect what we're afraid of and when we're afraid rather than our general emotions, for example. Or if Cancer the Crab were instead envisioned as Sally the Swan thousands of years ago that those who are born with Cancer influences today would instead have Sally the Swan influences which would change the energy they're born with and have to deal with.)

Put another way there is no singular intelligent or conscious force behind these Archetypes, but rather the subconscious of our species, and we affect them, and they in turn affect us in a circle.

As for casting spells on others to send them away, it's not that some force punishes you for it, it's that by doing so you create a psychic connection (even if that connection is meant to somehow suppress or deflect the other person) and all connections become mutual (or the connection and thus spell fails). Think of "plugging yourself in" to the other person, your current goes there but their current comes right back at you, at least in moments of weakness on your part.

Likewise, the reason cursing (speaking of the usual kind while spirit evocation, shaping of elementals, and other esoteric occult activities are a bit different--though not completely so) is dangerous isn't because some entity is going to spank you for it but because such occult attacks typically come from a place of weakness (even desperation) [b]which means the person enters into magic with the ingrained belief that the victim of his or her spell already has power over the spellcaster which taints the entire process and in many cases the spellcaster also has a conscience that allows guilt in which adds to the danger of cursing.

Now if the target of a curse happens to be weaker than the spellcaster the curse can still work without tangible backlash to the caster, but if this were the case then the spellcaster probably wouldn't have come to be in a place where cursing seemed necessary. This is why those who go this path (and last doing it) learn ways to ritually cleanse themselves and "raise their vibration" at least for the duration of the casting the spell and/or use ways to deflect the backlash...but as a general rule, if your magic goes up against an aura that resists you (which is often the default unless permission is given, though there are sneaky ways to "get a subconscious invite/permission") then the magic rebounds with all its original strength AND the strength of the aura it "bounced back" from (and is sometimes summed up as "get back three times what you send out" since it's going to come back a bit more than twice as strong).

This is a complex topic that can't be explained easily, and most pop occult books are going to sell what you want to read rather than what you need. [/B]

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posted May 17, 2015 04:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Eirlys:
Do you think overcoming the mindset would have been sufficient,

on its own?

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Yes. More importantly so does she, and I'm not aware of her ever casting another money spell since then (which was years ago when she told me about it). To get rid of a weed you have to pull it out by its root and she didn't do that until she addressed her mindset.

posted May 17, 2015 05:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Astro keen:
Would you say that people who don't buy into collective beliefs are shielded from outcomes of those beliefs, e.g., influences of a Saturn return? These people may also have a positive mindset that is protective.

Actually, my example was not a good one. Since effects of a Saturn return are hugely open to interpretation, non-believers wouldn't acknowledge the influence anyway.

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Not really. Of course believing it and very actively disbelieving (as opposed to casually rejecting) affects things but overall these archetypes are too powerful. You can "swim with" the current or "swim against" it but these Archetypes aren't vampires that need your permission to affect you, their influence is going to be felt to some degree regardless.

I hope that makes sense. I'm completely baffled by the common belief that many have that what they personally visualize or what have you will come to them or happen (which includes controlling the acts of others towards them through sheer will or attitude that they believe is irresistible, for example the belief that if they don't visualize anything negative then nothing negative can happen but if they fear it then it will happen) but also that the minds of everyone around them does not have the same power over them in return (I'm familiar with solipsism, in case you're wondering ). I don't see how anyone could believe this (that the person is the center of THE universe which shapes the minds of those around them while the reverse is not true), it doesn't make sense from the start and how one mind affects another is well documented even outside of parapsychology. In the realm of archetypes, where millions to billions of minds have shaped it, a single mind isn't going to shake that off like a duck shaking off water.

Well, maybe if you're Neo (and even for him it wasn't easy).

And I'll specify (just in case) that I see astrology as more like currents of energy, we can't fully escape the currents but how we navigate them (and thus how it works out and even manifests) is still up to us.

I'm out of time, I can't proofread this now, just let me know if you're unclear on something I said.

posted May 17, 2015 08:23 PM            

quote:

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In the realm of archetypes, where millions to billions of minds have shaped it, a single mind isn't going to shake that off like a duck shaking off water.
Well, maybe if you're Neo (and even for him it wasn't easy)

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Yet is it possible to be able to bend the world to ones own will…?

I don’t believe such from a magic POV can really be done over the course of even a single lifetime… but say for example reincarnation is real and our would be magician was also aware of this scenario. It’s possible then that they could “create” something small in the past knowing that perhaps not even in their lifetime will it come to fruition. (yet this also can maybe minimize the risk)

However something they have set in motion then picks up more energy over time and starts to snowball while it’s still energetically linked to the progenitor in question. Again the Magician who started it keeps their awareness of this situation even in their new incarnation and can ride the slipstream of what the created in the past and know exactly where and when to smash it (maybe even just a nudge) like a tennis ball on a string next time it comes around… OR not!

If a person could do this and basically have “the world” bare the weight of their actions instead of themselves… how long will it take to bend the spoon?

Ofc… there are a lot of “what if’s” in my little pet theory… but I find such a possibility intriguing

posted May 18, 2015 06:58 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
.....I'm completely baffled by the common belief that many have that what they personally visualize or what have you will come to them or happen (which includes controlling the acts of others towards them through sheer will or attitude that they believe is irresistible, for example the belief that if they don't visualize anything negative then nothing negative can happen but if they fear it then it will happen) but also that the minds of everyone around them does not have the same power over them in return (I'm familiar with solipsism, in case you're wondering ). I don't see how anyone could believe this (that the person is the center of THE universe which shapes the minds of those around them while the reverse is not true), it doesn't make sense from the start and how one mind affects another is well documented even outside of parapsychology.

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Wouldn't the same principle apply to one who has a negative mindset, like the poverty mindset you mentioned earlier? That is a demonstration of how our minds attract good events and people to our lives. Which is what the law of attraction is about (which needs a thread on its own). So, the mystery is - how do we manage to affect the world despite the fact that other minds maybe acting in opposition to us.

posted May 18, 2015 07:30 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:

Now if the target of a curse happens to be weaker than the spellcaster the curse can still work without tangible backlash to the caster, but if this were the case then the spellcaster probably wouldn't have come to be in a place where cursing seemed necessary. This is why those who go this path (and last doing it) learn ways to ritually cleanse themselves and "raise their vibration" at least for the duration of the casting the spell and/or use ways to deflect the backlash...but as a general rule, if your magic goes up against an aura that resists you (which is often the default unless permission is given, though there are sneaky ways to "get a subconscious invite/permission") then the magic rebounds with all its original strength AND the strength of the aura it "bounced back" from (and is sometimes summed up as "get back three times what you send out" since it's going to come back a bit more than twice as strong).

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posted May 18, 2015 08:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Astro keen:
Well, 2 things some to mind immediately, where one's beliefs make a difference. It is generally accepted that fear makes one more vulnerable, even if lack of fear cannot protect one entirely from powerful bad energies. So, a positive frame of mind, by this I mean a mind that believes that they are protected by the universe and the angels, has a protective force-field around it that banishes evil energies. Conversely, if I am fearful of falling prey to elementals or low level spirits, I leave myself open to them.

Wouldn't the same principle apply to one who has a negative mindset, like the poverty mindset you mentioned earlier? That is a demonstration of how our minds attract good events and people to our lives. Which is what the law of attraction is about (which needs a thread on its own). So, the mystery is - how do we manage to affect the world despite the fact that other minds maybe acting in opposition to us.

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Affecting the world is one thing, being in perfect control of it is another.

In my experience I was often more vulnerable to bad experiences when I was being positive, probably because I wasn't being vigilant and others took advantage of that, whereas when I expected the worse I had incredibly good luck, possibly because I was being vigilant and careful about how I proceeded. Perhaps I've found the balance in the latter, too much fear would've paralyzed me instead of empowering me and probably would've doomed me. Balance is hard for many people to understand let alone accomplish as they think in dichotomies devoid of degrees.

(Never read of Sri Aurobindo, cool name though, but I'd wonder why negative energies were so out to get him.)

Minds can attract many things but they're not the sole factor many people treat them as, nor are they operating in a vacuum. What I'm talking about is the person who says we either have total control or no control (and that does get said), that if you're not afraid then nothing will happen that will make you afraid (IOW, blame the victim), and the like.

posted May 18, 2015 09:24 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Never read of Sri Aurobindo, cool name though, but I'd wonder why negative energies were so out to get him.

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posted May 19, 2015 04:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Yes. More importantly so does she, and I'm not aware of her ever casting another money spell since then (which was years ago when she told me about it). To get rid of a weed you have to pull it out by its root and she didn't do that until she addressed her mindset.

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Indeed.

Appreciate the response

------------------
Nothing is permanent in this wicked world; not even our troubles.

posted May 20, 2015 02:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Yes. More importantly so does she, and I'm not aware of her ever casting another money spell since then (which was years ago when she told me about it). To get rid of a weed you have to pull it out by its root and she didn't do that until she addressed her mindset.

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