posted April 17, 2015 08:35 AM            

However Im already quite aware of the well established association of this Character with the Emperor Nero from ancient times who was considered “The Beast” (Roman Empire). Yet I feel such is only half the story and that both Christ & the Antichrist are more archetypal in nature and facilitate a sort of spiritual dichotomy. A belief which has become wholly embraced by millions (if not billions) all around the world and perhaps via a self fulfilling Prophecy such a person as the Antichrist will indeed emerge from the collective unconscious soup of a “will to believe”.

In actuality, from an evangelically POV (or a view held by a large majority of them)…. The coming of the Antichrist is the very catalyst needed to cause Christ to return (If anything they NEED/desire the coming of the Antichrist)

And as a totally non religious person, I find people’s fears and perceptions of such end times a dangerously easy element to both manipulate and control by power groups seeking to gain more global control. So in some sense I can see that the stage is indeed set for such “Illuminati Power Plays”… but the question remains, just who will be the star of such grandiose theatrics!?

Whoever they are, they need to have an almost ridiculous list of confirming attributes as prerequisites in order to claim the position of “The Antichrist” as shown in the linked lists below… (In which case it would be a quite a miracle if such a person REALLY existed…)

List of Characteristics (There are a few different ones, but I’ve seen some as long as 50) ~ You can check the references on Blue Letter Bible.

posted April 17, 2015 11:06 AM            

1: Little Kingdom
2: Plucks up 3 tribes
3: Rises up among the ten horns in Europe
4: Has a man at its head
5: A worldwide power
6: It will be different from all other powers (Religious/Political)
7: Arises after the fall of Rome 476AD
8: Claims to forgive sins (Blasphemy) & to be a substitute for God
9: Persecutes Saints – The Dark Ages (arguably Kills over 100 million Christians)
10: Thinks to Change Times and Laws
11: Rules for 1260 years

And this identification raises all kinds of other tantalizing questions…

posted April 18, 2015 04:51 AM            

Yes, I recall hearing that about the Pope before, and it does fit the closest.

Though every generation has those who believe it's the last and it wouldn't surprise me if even Reagan was thought of as the Antichrist. Clinton sure was thought of that way (and Bush before him has a lot of conspiracy lore against him as well, from Skull & Bones to his "new world order" comment which is made even more meaningful by his having been a director of the CFR and there's also some tie to the CIA, I think from an earlier generation so people probably declared him the Antichrist) and now we have Obama. The Left Behind series was as big in the USA as Harry Potter (though it didn't come under fire as Harry Potter did other than some Catholics not liking how their church was presented in it and a few who wanted to quibble on the details of the End Times). Chick tracts have been predicting the end since it came out and I heard from a guy who said his sunday school was preparing him for when Christians were arrested but got kicked out for thinking when he asked wouldn't it be more likely that someone would get arrested in East Texas for NOT being a Christian?

One guy showed me a vid his mom sent him of Jack Van Impe (love that name for a televangelist!) who built up this big explanation of current events (when broadcast) and linking it to Bible prophecy and he finally states emphatically that if it doesn't happen by 1996 then it's not happening (I saw this in like 2000). Of course his being wrong hasn't stopped him from continuing to predict the End Times.

I wish someone would study it from a psychological point of view (especially Jungian) as I'm sure there's a reason for it, and why so many have to cast themselves as the Blessed (be they Raptured or Martyred) by twisting everyday events to fit, as closely as possible, the Bible (or other relevant source). (It might be a fear of dying, one told me of her old mom dying despite living a vegetarian diet saying that she was promised if she did that she'd live to see the Rapture but was now DYING and she was terrified, and so bitter against God rather than the people who told her that.)

posted April 19, 2015 08:04 AM            

quote:

---

I wish someone would study it from a psychological point of view (especially Jungian) as I'm sure there's a reason for it, and why so many have to cast themselves as the Blessed (be they Raptured or Martyred) by twisting everyday events to fit, as closely as possible.

---

I do find this element of not just religion but of the human condition to be perhaps one of it’s most fascinating aspects.

And while in my first post I cast the lens of the “End Times” squarely on the Christian belief system, I do not by any means solely associate it with Christianity. For both Prophecy and The End of The World motif is almost something that exists universally throughout the world with many different cultures and tribes independently coming up with their own myths of Anti-Heroes and Divine Saviour's.

Its an incredibly powerful mode of control and I can see how a very charismatic and powerful “shamanic/priest” in say a tribal community in the midst of a “Natural Disaster” would proclaim this to be the onset of the end of their world, and that it was time to align themselves with his chosen Hero and prepare for the Rapture. Psychological Im sure it’s a deeper minefield than just that, as the desire to surrender oneself to the controlling priest class must already pre-exists in the human psyche even before any actual “End Time” events.

Heck, Even in Lovecraft the same motif exists… (Oh Yes Im going there) You have the various Alien Gods whose earthly priests and cultists worship in preparation for the end times of when these Gods return to clear off the earth, but in Lovecraft’s case there is one clever difference which I feel is often forgotten...

The return of the GOO is not the Rapture, but a sort of spiritual unleashing of humanities full potential upon the physical world (atleast from a chaos POV) as denoted by the obscure lines:

quote:

---

That cult would never die till the stars came right again, and the secret priests would take great Cthulhu from His tomb to revive His subjects and resume His rule of earth. The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom.

---

If had to choose a Rapture to live through, I think I know which one Im siding with.

And as regards the Antichrist… Given the right climate and chain of events I could see people latching onto someone who fit’s their criteria (And as already mentioned it doesn’t take much considering almost every US president is declared as Satan upon inauguration) and who could even instigate an Apocalypse of sorts be it spiritual or psychical.

But I can never see a successful Christian Antichrist figure solely emerging from politics… Not at first anyhow.

posted April 19, 2015 09:23 PM            

The return of the GOO is not the Rapture, but a sort of spiritual unleashing of humanities full potential upon the physical world (atleast from a chaos POV) as denoted by the obscure lines:

That cult would never die till the stars came right again, and the secret priests would take great Cthulhu from His tomb to revive His subjects and resume His rule of earth. The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom.

-----------

Nice.

*tinfoil fan*

...

Though it's pretty much in keeping with the Bible,

with regard to the GOO.

Strangely so.

posted April 21, 2015 06:14 AM            

I know right? HPL undoubtedly done so on purpose… Alot of his works make use of the dieing and rising god myths (that are much older than Christianity) and I especially like his Virgin birth and Spiritual Twin (Jesus and Thomas) that he inverted/perverted in the Dunwich Horror….

--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=

There was a couple of things I wanted to bring up, and I like what was done in Angel as regards Jasmine/Jesus that PixieJ mentioned. It sorta ties into what could actually be preformed as an experiment with the various “Cargo Cults” around the world and in a theatrical sense (but real for them)… give them the 2nd coming lol - Then see what happens afterwards…

Going through that List of 27 Characteristics one thing stuck out to me as particularly odd…

quote:

---

Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. <- Actually verse;

He will have “no regard for the desire of women”: He will either be asexual or homosexual [Dan 11:37]

---

^^They are reaching to make him Gay IMO, because the reference could just as easily be interpreted as him being celibate.

Now I pretty much agree with the Protestant view and linking it all to the Papacy and so ::He will have “no regard for the desire of women”:: also makes decent sense considering Catholic priests are supposed to be celibate including the Pope himself.

However I know that most other Christian denominations will not associate the Antichrist with the Papacy and sooner attached the stigma to an individual tyrant – In which case I wonder then, does a fear and the suppression of homosexuality within Christianity actually stem from the notion of the Antichrist being Gay?

And that if they can somehow keep Gays down and stop them from ever gaining power, be it politically or otherwise… would this in turn delay the Rapture from their POV?

Granted this is pure speculation on my part and its arguable that Im reaching pretty far myself… and yet it would not surprise me if there was indeed some truth to this concept…

posted April 21, 2015 05:08 PM            

As for homosexuality...that's difficult to explain because there's very little logic in it, a lot of it is just plain contradictory. And plenty also WANT the End Times to come so that the new heaven and earth get here rather than trying to delay the prophecy.

Generally speaking, gays are seen as mentally and physically weak whose greatest danger is spreading their weakness, spreading disease (some think gays operate in a conspiracy to infect others), demons (some literally believe gays are demon possessed), and to children (of course those wanting to protect children from gays also hate children and want them to suffer, except when it's politically convenient to love them so they can hate on someone else). The real danger of gays is that God is a vicious tyrant who will lash out to destroy cities because his sensibilities are offended and thus God must be appeased by killing (or at least oppressing) the gays (strangely, they consider this admirable in their god but want humans who may act the same way to be on terrorist watch lists!).

Finally, I'd like to point out this verse attributed to Jesus:
http://biblehub.com/matthew/19-12.htm

quote:

---

New Living Translation
Some are born as eunuchs, some have been made eunuchs by others, and some choose not to marry for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. Let anyone accept this who can."

---

posted April 21, 2015 08:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
...I followed the trail that was pointing to the fabled “Antichrist” and the rationale people are using to identifying said person.

... I feel such is only half the story and that both Christ & the Antichrist are more archetypal in nature ...

...the Antichrist will indeed emerge from the collective unconscious soup of a “will to believe”.

...And as a totally non religious person, I find people’s fears and perceptions of such end times a dangerously easy element to both manipulate and control by power groups seeking to gain more global control.

Whoever they are, they need to have an almost ridiculous list of confirming attributes as prerequisites... (In which case it would be a quite a miracle if such a person REALLY existed…)

---

posted April 21, 2015 10:50 PM            

And with that in mind...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hpPwB5X4yc

And now for pure humor (but does deal with the Rapture):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlg0xCwWKV0

posted April 22, 2015 12:12 PM            

I know right? HPL undoubtedly done so on purpose… Alot of his works make use of the dieing and rising god myths (that are much older than Christianity) and I especially like his Virgin birth and Spiritual Twin (Jesus and Thomas) that he inverted/perverted in the Dunwich Horror….

Older than the term Christianity, maybe...

but not its existence.

The 'men of renown' in the very beginning (Gen 6)-- I think

it's an important, if not pivotal point.

How distracted we all are, when the story is *everywhere* lol

It's right there in Lovecraft.

Also- I haven't read the Dunwich Horror!

I just recognized what was being referenced in your post.

Anywho

Yes.. it must be on purpose, I agree.

He's fairly bursting at the seams with "I know something

you don't." *evil grin*

------------------
Nothing is permanent in this wicked world; not even our troubles.

posted April 22, 2015 07:17 PM            

^^

You had said something about the false religion promoted by false Christians who were possessed by the Antichrist and I was saying I know some Christians who basically say that. Yet for some baffling reason you've since deleted your reply to me and remembering how you took things in the past I'm now wondering if you thought I was putting you down or something when I wasn't and that's why you deleted.

Heck, I COULD have replied with explaining a No true Scotsman fallacy or about how the Bible is so filled with commands to atrocity, even in the New Testament which Jesus also confirmed indirectly at the very least if not directly (and it could be argued he did so directly) that it's the moderates dragging the Bible into a world of enlightened values that are going uphill while the fundamentalists that take it all literally find it easy to justify their hatred and evil (evil defined as getting ahead by intentionally harming others). But I didn't. Instead I chose to be supportive and mentioned that other Christians thought along the same lines. But you still deleted your post leaving only what was for LK and that makes me think you wrongly felt under attack yet again and ran away.

posted April 23, 2015 11:57 AM              

The ANTICHRIST

embodies the State of ISRAEL today

1) FALSE Jews (as mentioned in the Bible)

They (Israelis) FALSELY pretend to be the desendants of biblical /ancient "Israelites"
WHEN , they are nothing of the sort.

-PROVEN by contemporary scientific testing of Blood DNA, which shows that they are of TURKISH/KHAZARIAN descent

2) Not only that, BUT they have NO CLAIM to any "SEMETIC" bloodline

3) THUS, "ANTISEMITISM" as used by them for political reasons is a COMPLETE FRAUD.

4) ANTICHRIST embodies the OPPOSITE of what Jesus the CHRIST stood for, and it is clearly to be seen that

5) Today's ZIONIST JEWS embody this OPPOSITE ...in that they

a) CONTROL and hold EVERY NATION to RANSOM FINANCIALLY by ownership & control of their FRAUDULENT INTERNATIONAL BANKING SYSTEM (ie issuing FALSE currency without any backup..PLUS charging Interest.

b)OWN/ Control nearly all the worldwide MEDIA, PLUS INTERNET, GOOGLE, FACEBOOK, PAYPAL, EBAY, and nearly every other social media site,
c) own/control most publishing/printing- incl ALL HISTORY= LIES

d) infiltration & control of governments in nearly every country..
e) the Movie industry (esp Hollywood)...
* * * * *
YOU GET THE PICTURE?

ANTICHRIST = ANTI -LIFE = DEATH

"PROFIT before PEOPLE" which is the ruling operative today, = ANTI LIFE = DEATH

SATAN (=ANTICHRIST) RULES THE WORLD TODAY.
TELEVISION is one of the methods of mind control (eg FAKE "NEWS" etc
(influences the masses), then of course ALL the other multiple electronic distractions/"entertainments"..

ANTICHRIST = THE OPPOSITE, of LIFE ENHANCING PRINCIPLES.

Indeed, THEY have ALWAYS regarded THEMSELVES as SEPARATE from the rest of humanity , whom they regard as mere "cattle", & put on earth to serve them.

They regard themselves as "Chosen by (their) GOD. To RULE the World.
(Which they now practically do, after having planned it for 100 + years.

The ANTICHRIST is already here! (But the appointed leader is so far not announced)

WAKE THE HELL UP !!!!

posted April 24, 2015 03:06 AM            

You had left 2 arrows up ^^ and I thought that meant you were directing your comment, skipping past my post (for the time being). Like, I didn't see your 5pm posting before I posted because I was composing here in the pink window. (Don't have writer software, and in building some of my posts, they get complicated. Need practice to do longer posts without a 'preview' device, and have it come out right the first time.)

Anyway, cheerfully, you had a convo in progress already, and I felt I perhaps interrupted 'the tone' of the thread with something connected to the notion yet adding just a bit deeper or broader scope. I went back in to delete the heavier-thought, that's all. It wasn't "you" PJ. Sorry you felt excluded. I figured you guys might have wanted to keep the material on this particular thread lighter, that's all.

My thoughts generally were:

AntiChrist isn't just a material man or form, but I presented that it had a 'spiritual' or soulish component to the non-literal understanding.

The comment I made about Anti Christ, had to do with Christ as the Awakener of Love, and the Anti-Christ as a negative energy and as anything that leads us away from Love, or changing and growing.

Some Christians IN the churches are mean to other Christians, and I refer to divisiveness and fighting in-house within the churches (corporate) as well.

But I have seen attempts by churches recently to agree to work on negative impression they are giving to unchurched people. It is repulsing people who would otherwise be attending. This pact to work together brings me a hope again.

On your url for Dr. Jack Van Impe... I mused and said I admired him for his genius way of weaving scriptures... like astrology students present keyword phrases in delineating charts. Dr Impe died a few years ago (that wiki url hasn't caught up on that news yet). He had Sun sextile Uranus, Sun Aquarius, Uranus Aries, with Scorpio Moon.

I think I remembered most of my post now (without going to my binder to dig up the copy of my post).

Sorry if you thought I edited 'in response' to your post? ... nah. Once someone acknowledges that I said anything at all, I don't 'change' the post (unless to clarify a word, or awkward sentence for better)~~ but I pledge to you and everyone here that I wouldn't knowingly do that, especially to you PJ. ... Like I said, once I see my name got mentioned, I leave my post alone coz I know it was okay. When I do edit later, it's like you PJ, where we've shared things from our (abusive) pasts that were quite personal, left it there a while, then removed our story after those in 'the party' of readers left.

BTW, another thing that happened immediately--
AS I had hit the 'Submit Reply' on that poat, someone in my building layed out a PAINFUL deep deep blast of their super-sound system (sound) then turned it down. But then their woofer-base stayed on constantly and intensely into the next day, shaking everything with very fine earth-quaking tremble (plus a Congo drumbeat, I remember). Makes my body feel really sick (as you know, *the usual reasons* is how I mark it).

SO!... Had they not blasted me right then, I gently might have understood how your cartoon posts spoke directly to whatever I had said.... (You know I don't mind your sense of humor... and I do like to consider and spend time with the things you all say here, even if it would be contrary to any held belief I had.... That's how we grow. -- )

posted May 16, 2015 09:00 AM            

I have been meaning to get back to this, work/life intrudes...

@Swanlake

You would have no argument from me that Israel, when it comes to matters of the covert are indeed tainted with less than charming attributes. And these days Israel is a country that is most likely equally frowned upon in both the East & West … not least over Gaza. However as it was already stated, Israel’s politics are best spoke of over at Spider-Line.

As regards there association with the Antichrist, well while I admire your passion in pointing to this possibility… I see leaps in logic that simply do not line up with the previously stated prophecy, and I don’t see how they can ever tag enough of the prerequisites to qualify.

Interestingly I can entertain that as nation, being seen as the Antichrist in a twist of irony would probably appeal to Israel, so maybe if enough people simply believe they are… then on some level they could hijack the collective unconscious of humanity and declare themselves as such.

The Antichrist to me is very much akin to Jung & Freud’s Shadow, and the real Antichrist is something we all carry with us each day and have to eventually reconcile with, and when we don’t we project it onto other people, organizations, and/or countries in an effort to deal with the Antichrist alittle more palatably.

The coming apocalypse… is always coming, but in truth it’s happening everyday within each of us. And yet if this is what I believe then why am I even concerned with a “Biblical Antichrist”. Simple really… as I have already said it’s a dangerous and powerful method of controlling people, and It is a force that will be likely used again to its full effect as soon a possible… So Im intensely curious to see what shall manifest in our future and “woo the world” in the way the Antichrist is supposed to.

A few days ago I randomly saw this Episode of Star Trek: Next Generation that dealt directly with the Antichrist Motif… And it pretty much demonstrated exactly why I think it’s a concept to be vigilant of. In that sense, an Alien-Antichrist is not impossible either lol…

Worth checking out: Star Trek s04e12; - “Devil’s Due”

posted May 21, 2015 01:03 AM            

Spirit of Antichrist... as shadow. Affecting the collective mind.

Pixie Jane, the eunuchs... I'd forgotten about that. Cool for you to bring that forward. And the comment that reminds us about how gays are treated just breaks my heart again.

The world has got to stop tearing people up and pulling everyone apart like that. Do you think they'll ever get tired of it?... (I know, there's no real knowing to that.)

Thanks for the Skeptics Commentary. I bookmarked it into my toolset.

Sometimes disasters will hit-- natural ones, then things like transport wrecks, and senseless bombings and irresponsible use of force. At this point, this is where you can view people 'as they are' in live-action, perhaps. Range of behaviors from people who are stunned, then others who make bold leaps into action to help the best way they know how.

Weird twist of thought? What kills us can make us stronger, who ever the 'us' would be ... (not 'what doesn't kill us'). All these rallying anti-Christ energies, revealing our shadows and senses of value.

Some choose to serve whatever person or group that appears as the stronger one, the one in favor at the moment. Perhaps this is in order to appease 'the enemy' so they'll save their own life. But in the long views, could this also be a mark of cowardice?... Not standing up for what's right. How much do we act cowardly in the inactivity?

Not standing up for the weak, the gays, or any not-accepted in the current status quo... Makes the status quo look a bit anti-Christ? Anti-Love, anti-Light. They only add more weights and burdens on the innocents, when we're supposed to help lift and bear one another's burdens.

It was good to stop and read here today. Always good food for thought available among the folk who hang out in Divine Diversities. You broaden my outlook and thinking. Thank you for that, thank you for 'you'.

posted May 23, 2015 03:16 PM            

Yes.

I think they do... and I'm reminded of the doormats

in Road Warrior who wanted to give all their fuel

to the enemy, instead of fighting.

Yuck.

-----

Not standing up for the weak, the gays, or any not-accepted in the current status quo... Makes the status quo look a bit anti-Christ? Anti-Love, anti-Light. They only add more weights and burdens on the innocents, when we're supposed to help lift and bear one another's burdens.

As for the persecution of the gays, what part of

Love thy Neighbour confuses people?

It is the greatest command, right after Love thy

God with all your heart...

You can respect and honour the inherent dignity

of another person, without agreeing with them.

This should not be news to anyone.

------------------
Nothing is permanent in this wicked world; not even our troubles.

posted May 23, 2015 09:09 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
And Roddenberry can't get all the credit. One of Linda's GURUs was a consultant on the show!

---