posted January 05, 2009 04:06 AM              

quote:

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The asteroid Lucifer (1930) tells us about a person’s relationship with the notion of a higher power. What’s a person’s relationship with what could be called his or her inner goodness barometer? Another side of it: Has the person learned how to develop a healthy, distinct sense of ego while serving something greater than the self?

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Greens webpage is unavailable but there is an excerpt on
http://www.mauricefernandez.com/forum_eng/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=508

which shockingly says

quote:

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LUCIFER WORKSHOP
Phoenix - Dec. 2, 2000
Jeffrey Wolf Green

Jeffrey: Good morning class. Today we're going to be talking about something that's not perhaps comfortable for any of us to talk about, and of course, that's the very nature of evil, and the phenomenon of, and how any of us can be influenced by the influence of evil. I've only done this lecture twice in my whole career, and it's only in the last couple of years. And both times I've done it, it's been very interesting because, I don't know, it just seems to have this effect of triggering people. A lot of folks don't even want to think that evil exists, you know, and you start talking about evil and they start having these amazing reactions....it's really a flash point, so, we brought some tomatoes in case anybody wants to throw them. In any case, we're going to talk about what this evil stuff is and how it works in our life and again, when you have questions, just ask me when you have the question and so forth.

And the first thing you need to understand, and again this is for some people, relative to their cosmologies, they have a problem accepting this stuff, but it is, in fact, naturally true, and the issue is that this thing that we want to call evil is in fact itself birthed or created from God. God is the origin of evil. So, what this really then means is that - because we're all part of the overall creation - that means that all of us can be not only influenced by God, we can also be influenced by evil. It's 50/50. Think about that - 50/50. So, we have to really, from this point of view, talk about what evil really is and why it exists. And, from one point of view, it comes right back to this Natural Law of polarity. For example, if you don't have a night, you don't have a day; so, similarly, if you don't have evil, you can't know God. See how it works? We always have to somehow have counterpoints...the natural law of polarity. Evil - its essence - because it is a very real consciousness - it's its own kind of energy - and the way to think about it is, evil's existence - look at it this way - is dependent...dependent....on any individual sustaining all their separating desires...anything but to know God. Evil will attempt to undermine any effort we make...to know God... and/or even in basic psychological cases, just desiring change. It will attempt to influence...to undermine. In other words, its existence is dependent upon the maintainance of human delusion....think of it this way. A simple example, because what we're going to be finding out today, is that there's a specific asteroid, actually, that embodies - as an archetype - this entire issue of evil. It's true that evil can manifest through the archetype of Scorpio/8th house/Pluto, and we'll get into that later on, but there's one symbol - because we're going to be showing you a magic trick today - we're going to haul out our bag of tricks to show this paradox of how we work with this energy. The point here is that all of the energy of evil can be symbolized in one astrological symbol, and that is the asteroid, of course, Lucifer. We started doing some research on this stuff around now starting 7 or 8 years ago, and so I've learned a lot through that kind of observation. For example, in this genocide in Kosovo that happened. The transiting Lucifer - how many are familiar with what are called geodetic equivalents? - It's another form of astrocartography, if you will. And through the geodetic equivalent system developed by Johndro - and look how graphic this becomes - the transiting Lucifer was exactly over Kosovo for the duration of that problem. Now, tell me that's coincidence.

Audience: Where is it now?

(J): It's moving right over the next really major flashpoint in our world, which is maybe Pakistan and India. This is truly a dangerous situation, because, in effect, these radical Muslims are in charge of the government, even though they have this defacto military leader. I was listening to one of these guys on the TV and the guy said, "God told us to build nuclear bombs." Direct statement from the cleric, "God told us to build nuclear bombs." Sure, buddy. So, you imagine if these guys get their hands on the control of nuclear weapons? I mean this is the major next flashpoint, and here's the Lucifer transit. And you see the influence of evil. "God told me to build nuclear bombs." This is actually something Nostradamus predicted. He called it the Red Emperor or something about Pakistan.

So, the way that we want to think of evil again is that its existence - and it is an existence - is dependent on the maintenance of human delusion. Human delusion can be seen - because the evolution of the soul in the end for any of us - the evolution of the soul is rooted in 2 desires within the soul - one desire is to separate away from that which has created you - you can call this God, and the other desire, of course, is to return to that very Source which has created you....to return to it. And then we have the separating - return - separating - return. And, it's exactly at this point of this Natural Law of double desire in the soul that the influence of evil can exist. And it exists by not only sustaining the psychology of separting desires - I want this, I want this, I want this - but it also serves - because one of the primary ways that evil manifests - to be blunt - listen carefully - is by creating the opposite reality intended. How many of you in your life have not truly intended - "Oh, I'm going to go this way; I want to do this," and somehow, the very opposite thing happens. How many know this as a life experience? And you're standing there going, "What the heck happened here?" This is a common way that it manifests.

And another primary way that evil manifests in our life - the core primary way - is to influence any of us where we're most emotionally weak. Let's say, for example, I have Venus in Scorpio, and because of this Venus in Scorpio, I have a lot of fears around loss, abandonment, betrayal, trust issues and all that. And let's say that I have a partner that through some sort of circumstance ignites these natural fears. Now, on the one hand, they're natural to me. Maybe I've had some lifetimes where indeed I had misapplied my trust into an intimate other in such a way as to attract that kind of thing - that's part of my MO, so to speak. That's exactly where the influence can strike - where you're most emotionally weak - and to take over something that is natural to you and then incredibly distort it - to deepen it, intensify it - truly distort. So, let's say I have these pre-exising fears - Venus in Scorpio - and my partner does something to trigger these fears, and I have these natural reactions, but then when the influence of evil strikes, is to take that natural reaction and intensify and magnify it beyond any proportion to the actual circumstance - you understand what I'm getting at? You have a disproportionate reaction. You're intensifying, you're magnifying. So, let's say I have these natural fears of loss, betrayal and abandonment, and now it's really intensified through this influence in such a way that I'm now projecting onto my partner based on that distortion, and I'm convinced that what I'm saying or feeling, "Oh, it's gotta be true." Especially through Venus in Scorpio.....'course it's true. And I start projecting all this stuff. You see what's happened. I've now set in motion a reality based on this evil's influence that would not otherwise stand there. And so now my partner starts reacting to what I'm projecting through this influence. That means, she's now being influenced. Do you see? And it just degenerates. Because the essence of evil is to separate, not to unify.

(A): Question about Pluto and the two desires, connected with Lucifer....then the evil that Pluto embraces is actually part of the soul?

(J): Yes, right, because the soul has been created by God. And so, therefore, this duality is intrinsic to the soul because it comes from God. That's why in Latin Lucifer means also Bearer of Light, and see, that becomes the secret is that wherever we have our natal Lucifer is where we can be most severely influenced by evil, but the paradox is that within the symbol itself, is the Bearer of Light, which means it's where you can accelerate "your spiritual growth," to directly know God...through the very symbol itself - that's the paradox of Lucifer and the Bearer of Light.

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The rest of the excerpt can be read at the link.

posted January 05, 2009 04:17 AM              

It ius part of a Grnad cross with my sun at 0 and moon at 3 Cancer while his own sun is at 2 Cap , his moon at 29.5 Pisces

What makes it more spooky is that HIS Valentine at 1 Aries , my Amor at 0 Cancer join this bizarre grouping.

I asked Iqhunk what it meant - he said it meant the Valentine person whose Lucifer ( evil )and Pluto ( soul ) oppose His Valentine has given up immortality as an angel to be with his true love.

His T-square get its missing leg filled my sun , moon and amor

Lucifers conjunct as per my insights mean we both are source of evil for each other , 5 lives of tragic love ending in heartbreak that only serves to cause downward spiritual spiral for fallen angels.

Because , evil is an illusion were are the illusion for each other that blocks us from God...or so i think.

My draco Lucifer conjuncts his Natal ascendent and his draco lucifer opposes my natal venus-chiron.

I would appreciate if any of you could look up lucifer and come up with contributions that can help us understand this important asteroid.

posted January 05, 2009 04:29 AM            

I humbly cannot buy into the notion of the asteroid Lucifer representing anything evil. Do you personally think the asteroid lucifer reprsents evil?

posted January 05, 2009 04:30 AM            

I don't believe in evil.

posted January 05, 2009 05:14 AM              

In my own chart Lucifer is in my 5th house exactly trine Venus and also conjuncts asteroid Actor and my Part of Marriage.

It also trines a certain actor`s Sun and Kaali, and his Lucifer conjuncts my Mars, True Node and ASC and Lust.

posted January 05, 2009 05:20 AM              

quote:

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I humbly cannot buy into the notion of the asteroid Lucifer representing anything evil. Do you personally think the asteroid lucifer reprsents evil?

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No, but if you read the whole Lecture Green says that the presence of illusions is what is Evil - which in fcat is a part of God - thus thats also where we find our light

quote:

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If it's really an illusion, then maybe the illusion is what you think you mean or are to each other? And that behind that lays the truth.

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you solved it , we bought the illusion of being separate fromm each other and that is why wanted to be one, the illusion being that we are ONE.

posted January 05, 2009 05:26 AM              

yes, I know that looks MUCH.
I am just not sure how to interprete it.

In the case of my almost lifelong admiration of an artist (a different one), my Lucifer falls flat onto his Venus, Karma and Aphrodite and trines his Pluto. Mmph.

posted January 05, 2009 05:28 AM              

quote:

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In the case of my almost lifelong admiration of an artist (a different one), my Lucifer falls flat onto his Venus, Karma and Aphrodite and trines his Pluto. Mmph.

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wait..that singer ?

But then this i must think about seriously. I never thought much about Lucifer synastrically, only natally. We could be onto something.

posted January 05, 2009 05:33 AM              

Also Mom's Lucifer conjuncts my natal Valentine.

Dad'a Lucifer conjunct Mom's Natal Ascendent - they are soulmates as per Iq's soulmate rule thingy..

posted January 05, 2009 06:04 AM              

And also, Lucifer feels significant synastrically.
But I am not sure what exactly it signifies.

But just look at your own Lucifer-synastry and the one of your parents. Lucifer MUST mean something.

My Mum`s Lucifer trines my DAd`s Moon. It also trines my own Lucifer and Venus.

My Dad`s Lucifer squares my Mum`s Uranus and quinkunx her Mars, but no really strong connection here. It also falls exactly onto my Draco Sun.

Oh I almost didn`t see, but his Lucifer becomes the Apex - planet of a Yod, with her natal Mercury-Mars-sextile.

posted January 05, 2009 09:30 AM            

The decade of the 1930s started off in the shadow of the stock market crash of October 1929. It is also the year that Pluto was discovered.

* edit- and for Raymond because he has left the building for the moment... 1930 was the Winter Olympics in Germany. Jessie Owens, the first Black Olympian won a Gold Medal.

posted January 05, 2009 10:41 AM              

But DD, Iq and i spoke about this asteroid many times and keeping the Lucifer story of wanting to be God in context - he and i agree with him - symbolises our fall from grace - fallen angels who choose to be mortal to experience separation from God so as to be his/her own god. they say this whole physical reality of ours is a Luciferic property and we enter into personal contracts with him when we choose to incarnate as humans and experience Human life.

Meaning Lucifer is an illusion that keeps us away from our own Oneness with God- it is the deluded part of us - but at the same time one which is our connection to our own godliness and light.

posted January 05, 2009 10:49 AM              

"So in synastry with family it connects that part of our souls together because we grow through our relationships and they are soul contracts in themselves."

I`m sorry, but I do not understand that. What part of our souls is connected as indicated through Lucifer-aspects?

Let`s stay with the example: What would it mean if someone`s Lucifer is conjunct my ASC and True Node?
Or if my Lucifer is conjunct someone`s Venus and Karma?

posted January 05, 2009 11:03 AM            

In 1936 Owens arrived in Berlin to compete for the United States in the Summer Olympics. Adolf Hitler was using the games to show the world a resurgent Nazi Germany. He and other government officials had high hopes German athletes would dominate the games with victories (the German athletes did indeed achieve a top of the table medal haul). Meanwhile, Nazi propaganda promoted concepts of "Aryan racial superiority" and depicted ethnic Africans as inferior.

Owens surprised many by winning four gold medals

posted January 05, 2009 11:08 AM            

But I can report that my Lucifer is on my husband's North Node. His Lucifer is Opposite my Sun.

What does it mean? We have matching demonic tattoos and a close friend said we deserved each other.

posted January 05, 2009 11:13 AM            

As a point of comparision, what about 11911 Angel?

Sitting on my Descendant, conjunct my Venus, and in synastry with mr bm Opposite his Neptune, etc, etc, etc.

And his* slots into one of my major configurations.

I just looked that up, pretty much at random. There are thousands of asteroids, it's not that unlikely that some are going to make strong conjunctions and connections both natal and synastry. But they will get less attention if they don't have an attractive and/or dramatic name.

posted January 05, 2009 05:26 PM            

"...an illusion that keeps us away from our own Oneness with God", I can buy that. Illusion versus reality is something I have been personally struggling with for quite a while now.

In my synastry with my ex (who I wanted to marry but who told me he was never going to fall in love with me) my NN conjuncts his Sun/Lucifer/Juno in Scorpio. His Lucifer opposes my Moon and and my Lucifer squares his Sun, both exact.

My Lucifer conjuncts his Isis and his Lucifer trines my Isis... not sure how that plays into it, but I always note double whammy aspects. Plus, in his natal, Lucifer trines his Valentine, Osiris and my personal name asteroid.

Also, Lucifer conjuncts his Sun and he is an athiest which is super interesting given one of the definitions we're working with here ~ as though Lucifer is obscuring the light of his Sun...? I mean, I suppose that's a value judgment, but it's also symbolic.

In my case, I'm still trying to figure out what was truth and what is illusion between us. I felt like he was falling in love with me, and yet he said he couldn't surrender. I've personally never had the experience of falling in love with someone who was not in love with me. It's been over a year and a half since we broke up and I'm still working through this so this asteroid definitely adds something new and interesting to my understanding.

posted January 05, 2009 06:27 PM            

A powerful article on the G.C., written by Paul O. Hewit, can be found at http://www.horary.com/hhcrl/galact.html "Paul feels that "it is probably the second strongest spot in any astrology chart, following the Sun. It is a stunning source of energy, motivation, and aspiration. The Galactic Center is the Sun of our Sun. It is the source of most of the gravitational energy present in our galaxy, and probably the source of most of the energy in any chart, transformed through our own Sun."

He mentions that William Lilly, one of the fathers of modern horary astrology, wrote that the Moon was not Void of Course when in late Sagittarius. If there is truth to this, could the G.C. be the reason?"

He was not born in Vienna. Astro.com doesn't carry Branau Inn, Austria. Latitude / Longitude: 48 N 15 / 13 E 02. ASC is the same as quoted sources-

posted January 05, 2009 06:35 PM            

My Draconic Lucifer is conjunct the Galactic Centre (26 degrees Sagg) and my natal Angel asteroid is conjunct the Aries 0 Point...

I suppose that for Hitler (if I'm clear on what you've said), he may have been living under a massive illusion - that his own self-created reality completely overshadowed everyone else's reality? And because it was on the GC point it affected so many people?