posted January 28, 2009 05:55 PM              

i think that more than one of them might very well be a close soul of yours...why not????just because they are famous,theu cant or wouldnt have anything special with someone who isnt famous??? not

but my favorite one for you will always be Jude....

VIRGO

YUp im proud to say i was "disflourished" ( does this even wxist)??? by my Plutonian Lover!but with passion and kindness,the part of the rapping that DD talked about is sth i do not believe...i just feel that with Lovers there is no place for violence :P

i get the feeling you wasnt surprised not to have found the conections.Afterall...for some reason he is your EX

posted January 28, 2009 06:01 PM              

"but my favorite one for you will always be Jude...."
Yes, mine, too.
Sad, isn`t it, really?

We do not even have a DW on Pluto-Proserpine.
Well, my Pluto is exactly quindecile his Proserpine, and we have that exact conjunction of Pluto and Proserpine in the Davison.

"the part of the rapping that DD talked about is sth i do not believe"
It`s only a myth. IT s hould not be read THAT literally. That would be awful, if every Pluto raped every Proserpine!

No, I think the term "rape" represents the intensity of the attraction, that eventually will help Proserpine make the choice to grow up and have a mature (read: sexual and emotional) relationship.

posted January 28, 2009 06:26 PM              

I dont see "Proserpine" anywhere.

I see Proserpina.

Persephone - 399

posted January 28, 2009 11:41 PM            

I did have the aspect with someone I fell head over heels for last year - we've stayed good friends and remain close, even though it didn't evolve into a traditional relationship. Seems like it makes for a pretty intense bond, I think. Probably you end up changing each other's lives in some key way...

posted January 29, 2009 01:06 AM              

Proserpina is actually the original Roman name for that Goddess, Proserpine is the English translation I think.

My Virgo Mask,

you compare the Draco`s to each other`s Draco and natal. But keep the orbs tight (2°).

posted January 29, 2009 03:28 AM              

Lets say a Soul is to be born and wants to choose the signs that he is his wife's soul mate. He would pick the correct Ascendant instantly, the correct moon every month, the correct Sun, Mars and Venus approx every year. The choice of correct Eros, Psyche, Proserpine or Persephone comes only every 8 years. The choice of the correct Saturn mixed with all these comes every 16 years or so [for a sextile or square aspect]. There is no way the Soul can choose [even with the greatest celestial computer] the exact date for Isis, Osiris, Anubis, Eros, Psyche to map to every other Asteroid.
These other placements just exist and explain the nature of events in the natal and the nature of feelings in synastry/composite.

So first we use the tests to filter out the true soul mate, and then we can use all the other checks for understanding the relationship.

Thanks to DD, Diandra, Lara and other contributors, we have a much better filter test of using Pluto-Persephone or Pluto-Proserpina in addition to my Asc with Karma, NN, Valentine, Saturn, Moon, Venus or Mars startup test.

One aspect in any of the charts should do IF the core Ascendant test is passed. If the birth time is missing, then I am sure the Higher Angels would have given a double whammy to confirm [like in the case of my parents, no birth time at all].

Hi Diandra,
I am not psychic, I want to be one though. All my info comes from mathematical pattern analysis and yes, a lot of intuition. Intuition is available to all, psychic powers need a lot more divine help.

------------------
http://www.tamsoft.co.in/articles.html

http://www.tamsoft.co.in/readings.html

posted January 29, 2009 03:34 AM              

does that test relate to synastry alone, or would you also use composite / Davison for this?

And DW means DW between ASC and any planet?

posted January 29, 2009 08:42 AM              

YOUR explanation is divine really.I see that divine help in many of your answers..but i believe one day youi will easily be the Psychic you want to become.

PA
I THINK it is used for one of those soul group family that are with us along our encarnations.
But note this:when IQ refers to that "oNE TRUE sOULMATE" i think he refers to the "best Soulmate" who is here in this encarnation with us,who chose to meet and live a true and loving relationship.

posted January 29, 2009 08:58 AM              

I definitely agree with you.

I think we are talking about very close soulmates here and (given the right feelings and aspects) the soulmate that is the best for us in this present incarnation. It doesn`t have to be our twinsoul though, I think.
Maybe there are incarnations, where it`s not even advisable to meet or be together with your twinsoul.

So, if I wanted to know if someone has the potential to be a true loving soulmate, I`d check:

1. ASC aspecting Moon, Venus, Mars, Saturn, NN, Valentine, Karma (using a 3° orb and conjunction, opposition, trine, square, sextile and quinkunx?)

2. Check for mythological couples:
a) Pluto to Persephone / Proserpina (the most important one)
b) Zeus, Jupiter to Hera, Juno
c) Eros, Cupido to Psyche
d) Siva to Parvati, Kaali
e) Osiris to Isis
f) Mars to Venus
g) Adonis to Inannen

- in synastry, Composite and Davison
- using all aspects and a 3° orb?

3. Additionally I personally think, you could also look at the aspects, that
Moon, Venus, Mars, Saturn, NN, Karma and Valentine make to each other; they seem to be pretty significant on itself, even if they alone won`t point to THE soulmate.

4. Just a thought:
Maybe it`s worth to notice and note, if there is an emphasis on particular planets / asteroids and which aspects are predominant. I think those would colour the quality or kind of the interaction, too.
Many conjunctions will certainly be different from many sextiles.
Both will create a connection, but the nature of the connection, the intensity will vary.

posted January 29, 2009 09:29 AM              

But are you asking IQ?

if some patterns do appear strongly in sinastry,regarding asteroids,then those are ths ones we should focus on.

posted January 29, 2009 10:46 AM              

IQ left out the Sun, that is why. Of course Sun conjunct ASC is still a strong aspect, maybe we can reintegrate it again.

EDIT: I am asking IQ and all of you.

Ericka,

the quinkunx is an aspect that is much discussed. Some do believe it is a major aspect.
I mentioned it because IQ mentioned it in the synastry of his parents.
I`m not completely sure about it myself yet.
I do think it has some effect if under 2°.

posted January 29, 2009 11:00 AM              

aspects connects:

conjunction: same element, same modality
trine: same element, different modality

opposition: compatible element, same modality
square: incompatible element, same modality

sextile: compatible element, different modality

quinkunx: incompatible element, different modality
semisextile: incompatible element, different modality

If you look at it this way, it actually has something in common with the sextile, as in both cases the modalities as well as the elements are different, only in the case of the sextile it connects compatible elements, so it might be easier to integrate.

However, that leaves me to question. would it make sense to use the semisextile, too?

posted January 29, 2009 11:32 AM            

Here's the info I gathered on the Greek couple, Persephone and Hades:

quote:

---

From http://www.goddessgift.com/goddess-myths/greek_goddess_persephone.htm:

The story of Persephone/Hades:

Persephone, a Greek goddess known in her childhood by the name Kore (or Cora, meaning young maiden), was the only child of the union of Demeter (goddess of the bountiful harvest) and Zeus, the mighty king of the Olympians. The Greek goddess Persephone was born when Demeter was Zeus' consort, long before his marriage to the goddess Hera. By all accounts Persephone had an idyllic childhood, raised by her nurturing mother and played with her father's other daughters, the Greek goddesses Athena and Aphrodite. Always a cheerful and compliant child, the little goddess Persephone was a parent's dream.
According to Greek mythology Persephone's life was soon to change. As signs of womanly beauty began to shine along side her childlike innocence, the adolescent goddess Persephone unwittingly attracted the attention of the Greek god Hades, brother of Zeus and ruler of the underworld. One can hardly blame Hades because the underworld, in Greek mythology, was the realm of the sleeping and the dead. It probably needed some "brightening up", and the young goddess Persephone's radiance would assuredly liven up the place.

The god Hades, however, did not bother to woo the young Persephone, traditional goddess protocol notwithstanding. After asking for (and receiving) her father's approval for Persephone's hand in marriage, Hades simply abducted her one bright sunny day when she stooped to pluck a narcissus from a field of wildflowers near her home. The meadow was suddenly rent open, and Hades simply reached out and snatched Persephone away, taking her to his underworld kingdom and making her his queen. Although the young goddess Persephone grew to love Hades, she remained lonely for her mother and the life she'd known on earth.

Her mother, the goddess Demeter, had heard Persephone's screams when Hades grabbed her. She began an intensive search for Persephone. After learning how Zeus had betrayed their daughter, and consumed by grief and sorrow, Demeter demonstrated her outrage by withholding her blessing from the earth until Persephone was returned to her. Droughts ensued, and the earth lay barren. Mankind was facing a major famine. Zeus finally relented and sent the god Hermes to bring the young goddess Persephone back to her mother.
Part of Persephone missed her mother horribly, but another part had grown rather fond of the god Hades. And Persephone was rather enjoying her role as Queen, even if it was in the underworld. While preparing to return to the earth with Hermes, Persephone accepted a pomegranate offered to her by Hades. She knew full well that anyone who had eaten while in the underworld would not be allowed to return, even a goddess - Persephone went ahead and ate seven of the seeds. Her choice prevented her from ever being fully restored to Demeter, but did open up the possibility of a compromise. Hermes was able to negotiate an agreement on her behalf between Hades, a god who was usually rather cold-natured and self-centered, and Demeter. Persephone would be allowed to stay with Hades in the underworld for four months each year (winter) and would return to the earth and her mother the remaining months. The goddess Persephone was soon reunited joyfully with her mother. Each year as Persephone left to join her husband in the underworld, Greek mythology tells us that the goddess Demeter would begin to grieve, bringing on the cold, barren winters. But a few months later Persephone, the goddess associated with awakening, would return to bring spring and its verdant growth in her wake . . . thus were the seasons established.

The Greek goddess Persephone represents both the youthful, innocent, and joyous maiden aspect of a woman as well as the more womanly self who, innocence lost and family attachments loosened, can begin to consciously decide for herself.

In Greek mythology Persephone, goddess of the soul, is the possessor of its dark and frightening wisdom. But the goddess Persephone is also the harbinger of spring and a reminder of all the growth and hope that it brings.

---

More on Persephone:

From http://www.goddessgift.com/goddess-myths/goddess_persephone.htm

quote:

---

Greek Goddess Persephone:
Innocent Maiden and Queen of the Underworld

The Greek goddess Persephone represents both the youthful, maiden aspect (innocent and joyous) as well as the more womanly self who, innocence lost and less attached to her parents, can begin to make healthy decisions for herself.

Carefree and innocent, a young girl-child just approaching adolescence, Persephone was the daughter of Demeter and Zeus. While gathering flowers, she was abducted by Hades and taken to the Underworld to become his queen.

Although Persephone's beloved mother Demeter eventually secured her release, Persephone managed to insure that she could "have it all"!

Persephone spent part of the year above ground with her mother but returned to her husband each winter (for she had grown rather fond of him and enjoyed her role as Queen of the Underworld). Spring represents the return of the eternally youthful Persephone to our world each year.

The Greek goddess Persephone was also known in her youth as the goddess Kore (or Cora), whose counterpart in mythology is the Roman goddess Prosperina.

In Greek mythology the goddess Persephone is thought to be the goddess of the soul, the possessor of the psyche's dark, unseen wisdom. But she is brings us all the bright green growth of spring . . . and all the hope that it brings.

---

The problem is, there is no Hades asteroid but there are the hypothetical planets, also known as the "Uranian planets" (Hamburg School) which includes Hades:

"Uranian planets" (Hamburg School):
h40 Cupido
h41 Hades
h42 Zeus
h43 Kronos
h44 Apollon
h45 Admetos
h46 Vulkanus
h47 Poseidon

Other hypothetical bodies:

h48 Transpluto-Isis
h49 Nibiru
h50 Harrington
h55 Vulcan
h56 Selena/White Moon
h57 Proserpina
h58 Waldemath Black Moon

*The ones I'm particularly curious about are bolded.

Is it worth a look comparing Persephone with h41 Hades as well as with Pluto in sample celebrity soulmate couple synastries?

____________________________________

Another mention (but perhaps belonging to its own thread) are Lilith and Priapus:

h13 Osculating Lunar Apogee ("True" Lilith / Black Moon)

h21 Interpolated Lunar Apogee (Lilith), also called 'Natural Apogee'

h22 Interpolated Lunar Perigee (Priapus), also called 'Natural Perigee'

There's also 1181 Asteroid Lilith.

It's all very confusing but I have been collecting a lot of data/info on all the Liliths which I will share with anyone interested.

____________________________________

posted January 29, 2009 12:17 PM              

I think the pairing of Pluto - Proserpina might be the stronger one of the two, but as Greek and Roman mythology are really like twin-mythologies, I`d have a look at persephone, too.

This is different to comparing Parvati to Cupido for example, as the indian and roman mythology are really further away from each other.

Regarding the hypotetical planets I still remain a sceptic, but open to being convinced.

posted January 29, 2009 02:32 PM              

In all four comparisions I have found intriguing connections in synastry, composite and Davison.

But only 2 "passed" the ASC test.

In one case:

my ASC exactly quinkunx his Karma.

In the other case:
my ASC exactly quinkunx his Valentine.
his ASC conjunct my ASC
his ASC conjunct my NN.

I`ve also looked at the kind of connection (aspects) that dominated the comparison (in all three relationship charts).

Case 1: (no pass of the ASC-test)
2 conjunctions
1 opposition
3 trines
3 squares
4 sextiles
1 quinkunx

this comparision included a DW of Pluto-Proserpina in synastry, a sextile between Pluto and Proserpina in composite and a conjunction of Isis and Osiris in composite (orb:3.1).

"Your signs are sextile, or in signs that are sextile. The theme for this combination is ease. You are comfortable with one another, and you make each other feel good. The attraction in this case is not all-consuming or instantaneous. This could be the case where the two of you grow onto each other. Your inherent compatibility becomes apparent the more you interact with each other. Sometimes the bond is purely platonic, and whether it grows into something more depends on the combination of other planets. Given time, you truly begin to appreciate each other. This gently evolving quality bestows both of you with a feeling that this partnership is going somewhere, albeit in a gradual, step-by-step manner.
Yin-Yang combinations: An easy attraction between you is present. Neither of you may be pressed to go forward with a relationship right away, but the more you interact, the more you appreciate how easily you relate to one another.

Yin-Yin and Yang-Yang combinations: The attraction is not insistent. Instead, you feel comfortable with one another. These aspects don't promise chemistry, but when other indications suggest chemistry exists, these aspects aid in keeping you together harmoniously."

Comparision 2: (somewhat passed the ASC-test)
4 conjunctions
3 oppositions
7 trines
2 sextiles
3 squares
7 quinkunx

includes a Pluto-Proserpina and Pluto-Persephone aspect in synastry; an Eros-Psyche-opposition in composite and an Eros-Psyche-conjunction in Davison, an Isis-Osiris-conjunction in composite

"There is a wonderful sense of ease and compatibility when love signs are trine. It feels good, it feels natural, and you complement each other well. Your styles in expressing love are similar enough to generate a luxurious understanding between the two of you (and sometimes a sense of relief if either of you have been involved in clashes before this relationship!), yet dissimilar enough to sustain your interest. While some of the combinations produce a feeling of insistent hunger for each other--an energy that can turn into a frustrated love-hate scenario down the road--this one's dominating theme is harmony and mutual acceptance. Although there may be times when the ease of this combination leaves you wanting for more thrills and drama in love, let this feeling pass and enjoy your partner. This is true love.
An excellent combination for all types of combinations listed above, especially Venus-Venus, Venus-Mars, Eros-Psyche, Eros-Eros, Sun-Sun, Sun-Moon, and Moon-Moon."

"Your love signs are inconjunct, or in signs that are inconjunct to each other. This combination is similar to the semi-sextile (Beige) combination, but more insistent and binding. The chemistry is either present and powerful or not there at all. It's more likely to be present but not felt until some later date when circumstances call it out! Sometimes this points to an on-again, off-again relationship. Often enough, one of you (or both) were "on the rebound" when you started your relationship. Why? Because you are an odd combination of people who don't really understand each other's needs in love. You make an unlikely couple in many ways, but if you do get thrown into each other's arms--whether it's by unusual circumstances or due to other, more direct combinations of planets and points--you could easily stick it out for the long haul. Plenty of adjustments are required in order to make this relationship work, but if you are willing to make them, more power to you. The viability of this combination depends very much on your individual characters. If you value peace and harmony, you probably should look elsewhere! If the idea of peace and harmony makes you think "how dull!", this budding, complex, and fascinating relationship may be just right for you!
Yin-Yang combinations: Of the scenarios described here, this is more apt to be a situation in which the chemistry does exist. And, especially with the Venus-Mars and Eros-Psyche combinations, there's a real tendency to want to keep trying and "adjusting" to one another.

Yin-Yin or Yang-Yang combinations: Of the scenarios described above, this one is less likely to indicate powerful chemistry. If you are together, it's unlikely due to this aspect alone. Plenty of adjustments are needed in order to make this relationship work. This can be exciting and interesting, or just plain annoying and stressful, depending on your individual personalities."

Comparision 3: (passed the ASC-test)
10 conjunctions
4 oppositions
2 trines
2 sextiles
4 squares
6 quinkunx

includes a DW of Valentine-Mars and Adonis-Inannen in synastry; Siva-Kaali in Composite and Davison and Pluto exactly conjunct Proserpina in Davison

"
Your signs are conjunct or in the same sign. No matter what combination of planets and points you are comparing, there is an enormous and instant sense of recognition. You can't help but notice each other, and you impress each other, for better or for worse!
Yin-Yang combinations: This combination is the most exciting, in-your-face attraction when the planets compared are yin and yang: Sun-Moon, Venus-Mars, Eros-Psyche, etc. (See Yin-Yang combinations above). These combinations can easily generate the feeling that this relationship is IT. It can seem like fate had a hand in getting you together, because the way you meet may be serendipitous. This relationship, no matter how long it lasts, is an unforgettable one. When these types of relationships dissolve, each party is likely to either cherish the memory, secretly wish to meet each other again one day, or feel haunted by the memory. Whatever the case may be, this relationship remains etched in your minds. The chemistry is powerful, instant, and dynamic, and your feelings are intense.

Yin-Yin or Yang-Yang combinations: When it's Venus-Venus, Moon-Moon, Sun-Sun, etc., the chemistry is not as powerful, but the sense of recognition is certainly present. In some cases, these two may be too alike."

Comparision 4: (didn`t pass the test, even though birthtimes are known)

3 conjunctions
0 oppositions
5 trines
7 sextiles
8 squares
7 quinkunx

includes DW of Saturn-Valentine in synastry; DW of Isis-Osiris (quinkunx and square) and a DW of Pluto-Proserpina in synastry; a square of Pluto-Proserpina in composite; ASC trine Venus and Mars in DAvison; conjunction of Venus and Mars in DAvison; an absolute precise conjunction of Isis and Osiris in Davison; Pluto quinkunx Persephone in Davison.

"Your love signs are square, or in signs that are square to each other. Especially when they form an astrological square, this points to a very direct and obvious clash of temperaments. Mind you, this combination can be extraordinarily exciting and titillating at the beginning, especially when yin-yang planets and points are involved. Whatever the case may be, you definitely notice one another. Something brews within each of you when you are in the same room. Sometimes, the relationship seems impossible. Perhaps one or both of you were involved with someone else when you met, or circumstances are such that your getting together could truly make waves. Often enough, relationships with this combination are passionate and even feverish, but circumstances seem to get in the way of things working out. Timing is off, and if you've loved and lost each other, you are likely to feel that IF you had met under different circumstances or at a different time in your lives, it would have stood a better chance. Whatever the case may be, there is some sort of challenge involved here, and if you become (or have become) a couple, you are likely to face plenty of challenges together. Your needs and styles in love are not only different, they actively clash with each other. This can be a very exciting--and very exhausting--relationship for you both!
Yin-Yang combinations: The chemistry is very real and palpable with these combinations. It might be that you immediately dislike each other, or you sense there's "something wrong" with the attraction you do feel, or feel like you've been hit with cupid's arrow and don't know how to handle it. One of you may be the person who's "on the fence" while the other one is pushing forward. The person more likely to be on the fence, reticent, or fearful of going forward at the beginning of the relationship is the person with the "yin" planet in the combination--that is, the Moon, Venus, or Psyche side of the equation--because this is the person who is doing more of the sensing and feeling. For example, if the combination is Eros-Psyche, it's generally the Eros person who pushes forward and the Psyche person who harbors some doubts or fears in the beginning. You are more inclined to take up the challenge of this relationship, probably because sexual chemistry is present, in spades.

Yin-Yin or Yang-Yang combinations: Although intrigued, these combinations are not as sexually magnetic as yin-yang combos, so the motivation to make things work might not be as strong. In other words, the clash may be felt as a true clash, simply because it's not masked by an all-consuming sexual attraction."

EDIT: The quotes on the aspects are from
http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/signcompatiblitygrid.html

posted January 29, 2009 03:59 PM              

The aspect to the ASC (or DW) seems to be a MUST, before you can check for other aspects.

(Yes, I know, IQ, you always said that )

Looking at some celebrity-relationships:

Brad - Angelina:

his DSC conjunct her Sun
his ASC trine her Moon

Antonio - Melanie:

his ASC squares her Saturn
her ASC squares his Sun
her ASC trines his True Node

Friends of mine:
her DSC Conjuncts his Sun
her ASC conjuncts his DSC
his ASC squares her Venus
his ASC squares her Mars

Diandra and her boyfriend:
her ASC Conjuncts his Sun
her ASC sextiles his Mars
his ASC squares her Saturn

Friends of mine, who believe themselves to be soulmates:
her ASC conjuncts his Venus
his ASC quinkunx her Moon

my parents:
my Dad`s ASC exactly conjuncts my Mum`s Venus
(her exact time is unknown)

Paul McCartney - linda Eastman:
his ASC trine her Saturn
his ASC conjunct her True Node
her ASC sextiles his True Node

Paul Newman - Joanne Woodward:
his ASC sextile her Venus
his ASC conjunct her ASC
her ASC conjunct her Venus
her ASC sextile his Saturn

Johnny Cash - June Carter:
his ASC quinkunx her Mars
his ASC squares her Saturn
his ASC squares her Karma

Johnny Depp - Vanessa Paradis:
her ASC quinkunx his Sun
her ASC trines his True Node

'Spencer Tracey - Katherine Hepburn:
her DSC Conjuncts his Karma
his ASC trines her Sun
his ASC Squares her Venus

Richard Burton - Liz Taylor:
her ASC squares his Moon
his ASC trines her Moon

Hmm, interesting, all those couples have that ASC-aspect within 3°. And except for Johnny Cash and June Carter those aspects always included either a conjunction or a trine, at least a strong aspect. And In the case of Johnny and June her birtime is not known, so that could change it.

So, I definitely come to the same conclusion as IQ (not that I ever doubted it, but I like to see these things for myself to be completely amazed by the accuracy ), there should be a tight conjunction or trine to the ASC.
And only after that we should proceed to look for other aspects (at least if we are looking for soulmate-synastries. ).