posted June 12, 2009 12:05 PM            

"Also he use to always ask me alot of questions but also expected to receive the answer he wanted to hear..and when he felt disappointed I would just say look you know me i just say what i think/feel and i'm not going to lie if you ask me a question just for the sake of the EGO."

posted June 12, 2009 12:05 PM              

I'm one of the most direct, honest,
and far-from-superficial people i know,
and you should see the hell i have to pay.

I'm not always sure what constitutes passive-aggressive behavior. I try not to judge people for avoiding confrontation, but it often irks me when they do. I try to understand their motivations. Often, people just dont want to hurt another's feelings, or they just dont want to get dragged into discussing every single topic the other person wants to raise. Some people are just very set in their thinking, or, at least, in certain convictions, and they resent being challenged on them, or expected to debate them. I guess that bothers me most -- when a person has an unflattering judgement of you which is based on some faulty assumption, some ignorance of theirs, or just a lack of personal chemistry, but they refuse to discuss it. Then they go around disliking you and taking pokes at you, and if you try to "have it out", they try to make it seem like you just want to fight. "Can't we just agree to disagree?" they say; by which they mean "can't I just go around taking pokes at you and leaving turds in your path, without having to explain my thinly-veiled disgust and constant stream of cruel, unjust insinuations?" These people make enemies, then they jump on their enemies' threads just to leave some insulting, two-dimensional comment. Then they disappear, lol. And do it again somewhere else. Like little gnats. They nibble and retreat, nibble and retreat, because when they enter into a real dispute, they lose.

All my life, I've said too much, exposed too much, and been too actively aggressive. I think its about time I began to brew a little "passive-aggressiveness" into my character, if only for the sake of self-preservation. Many of my perspectives are highly contraversial, even downright incendiary, and, if I were to tell people everything I see, they would block my way and force me to debate them, or they would just judge me, and go around leaving little nasty comments wherever they see me (we are talking about message boards, right?). And when I do enter into debate with them (which I am far too willing to do), it makes no difference that I have actual arguments, founded on logic and empathy, while they have only rhetorical judgements, popular opinions, and personal attacks. Most people are too dumb to see through that stuff, so what happens then is a whole crowd of dumb people gathers to "debate" me, lol, with assumptions, judgements, and personal attacks. And the more logic and empathy I use, the more infuriated they are with me and my controversial perspectives. So, I've begun to learn evasive maneuvers. You have to, when you are vastly outnumbered. You can't just be direct all the time when you have revolutionary ideas -- the kind that would incite attacks from all sides. Even if you had no life of your own, no business or personal relations to attend to, you could not possibly be "on call" to answer everyone with perfect directness. Even saying, "I dont want to talk about it right now," can be seen as passive-aggressive, when what you really want to say is, "You wouldnt understand," or, "You dont have the heart to empathize with this," or, "I dont respect your intelligence enough,". Regardless of what the reality is, its widely agreed that, even if its not arrogance to admit the truth of this to oneself, it is arrogant, disrespectful, and rude to come right out and say so. No, sir. People would much prefer that you be "passive-aggressive" in those instances, and in many, many instances similar to them. We don't want honesty. God forbid!

"We need very strong ears,
to hear ourselves judged frankly."
~ Michel de Montaigne

"Tell the truth, then run like hell."
~ Russian Proverb

posted June 12, 2009 01:50 PM            

I would like to express something that I *love* -- and that is, people who can use the word "invidious" in a post at LL
Myself, I prefer "odious" but that's neither here nor there......

MVM ~

quote:

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I hate it when people won't just come out with it and say what the hell is on their mind.

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posted June 12, 2009 02:12 PM            

quote:

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People who feel the need to put down others for no effing reason. Like going on and on about someone else's appearance. Or acting like because someone is not conventionally attractive, they have nothing to offer. Or being overly critical about someone's appearance (I know one person on here said that they refuse to date a woman who has ugly toes... wtf?)

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I agree with this.

posted June 12, 2009 02:44 PM            

quote:

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*FEELING VICTIMIZED - The p/a man protests that others unfairly accuse him rather than owning up to his own misdeeds. To remain above repoach, he sets himself up as the apparently hapless, innocent victim of your excessive demands and tirades.

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http://passiveaggressive.homestead.com/PATraits.html

It wasn't me, it was my Mars, a crude and crass planet who has a bit of a temper when riled.

Someone who says to me, "I don't want to talk about it now..." a different matter altogether. They've said straight up how they feel, pressing any further could well be unfair, depending on circumstances and the subject in question.

posted June 12, 2009 03:40 PM            

"Gentle and/or considerate people who avoid arguments and confrontation is not what I am talking about here, I mean obstructionist and deceitful behaviour calculated to injure another person emotionally or to sabotage their work or anything in their life they are working hard to achieve. No, they might not shout, swear or be overtly bullying, but bullying is what they are doing, in an underhand manner."

posted June 12, 2009 03:57 PM            

" I also think that, sometimes, what bothers us about evasive people is that they trigger our own co-dependency."

Interesting point, and I know what you're talking about.

Alternatively, I do think some people I've known intimately in the past are aware of that, and when they know you well enough, they are often aware enough to know that certain behavior (including *deliberate* evasiveness) will set off the other person.
I'd rather be punched in the face than have to live with backhanded comments. I always prefer directness, and honesty...

posted June 12, 2009 03:57 PM            

Another friend of mine is very outspoken and blunt and yet when it comes to saying if something bothers her, or hurts her feelings, she'll instead evade by making a lot of noise about something else, or just disappear altogether instead of addressing what the problem is, and getting to the heart of things.

Both friends are Leos btw, so I think it's funny

So I think it's weird that we sometimes equate soft-spoken or even fair and ethical with passive-aggressive, because that's not always true. And also, just because someone
is soft-spoken doesn't necessarily mean they care SO MUCH about not hurting the other person. That's not always true. Sometimes they have an agenda.

Just as it's true that some people can go and rage for an hour nonstop and yet you STILL don't know what the hell is bothering them LOL. It's almost like they use their own rage as a diversion.

posted June 12, 2009 04:51 PM            

Many other things I not keen on too. Mainly involving immediate family. If someone wants to say something, they will generally speak through someone else. That can be a bit rude. They TELL me what I should be doing, rather than ask (face to face) which could mean I am their b1tch in their eyes. I think they forget I am born here to live MY life, not be controlled by someone else. Masking it behind "caring for you" wears a bit thin after a while.

Combine that with not allowing me privacy, it leaves me wondering what the interest is in the not nice behviour towards me.

posted June 12, 2009 07:29 PM            

I am the one who said that and I will stick by it, it's a personal preference among many other ones, if she has ugly toes or feet I am not dating her unless she is spectacular or she has to wear freaking socks, and if you dont like it then with all due respect, you can go screw yourself, it's as simple as that.

Being critical about appearance when looking for a mate is a 100% Virgo trait, if it is beyond your simple mind to digest and understand then you need not sit here and cry about it.

It's people like you who scare me to begin with, the ones who sugarcoat sh*t and play along to the fullest, NO, I'd rather say what I believe is right and state my opinion even if it's going to hurt people rather than simply LIE and make the other person believe that everything is OK, it's also a Virgo trait and when people realize it they tend to appreciate us more.

And yes, if a woman is unattractive then I have no interest in associating with her period, it's not like females wanna be seen with lumberjack types either when they want to go out on dates or when choosing a mate, you pick what suites you and what you think fits your criteria, and my criteria is of a very high standard.

Pathetic.

posted June 12, 2009 08:02 PM            

Then again, that's true with any behavior. Violent rage brings out violent rage in others. Openhearted honesty brings out openhearted honesty in others.

Lately I'm trying really hard to focus on my own behavior and act in the way I want to no matter what other people around me are up to. It's been really great so far. For example, a person who works at the store and is always hostile and nasty with this really bad vibe and seems to hate me....I warmly asked her how she was, and meant it, and listened to her response, and it turns out that she is having a horrible time these days and has a chronic health problem that means she's in incredible pain. She could use some kindness and compassion!

posted June 13, 2009 02:22 AM              

I didnt know you did improv, AG.

posted June 13, 2009 02:51 AM            

VirgOh

"NO, I'd rather say what I believe is right and state my opinion even if it's going to hurt people rather than simply LIE and make the other person believe that everything is OK."

I very much agree here.
I think it's very simple, well for me to get my honest opinion across without seeming rude or brash but the TURTH non the less.

Also I think depends of the company you keep. I find immature people can't take the truth (especially when it concerns them directly) or simply can't deal with criticism.

posted June 13, 2009 03:36 AM              

I admit I use to be like that to the point of avoiding certain people all together but now it doesn't really matter anymore, I can not please everyone.