posted July 02, 2009 10:58 AM            

seriously I don't know what to believe any more ..whether it's pro or con

anybody could make stuff up

even what we call "news" could just be gossip.

what we call "gossip" could actually be the news.

I have no belief either way.

I do admit that I was tactless, and I apologize for that.

posted July 02, 2009 11:28 AM            

Don't try to judge me,compare me from a neurotypical scale

it doesn't work.

I am not a neurotypical. I am a neurodivergent (Dyspraxic,Dyslexic,ADHD)

it's like trying to compare a person with autism on a non-autistic person's scale

Dyspraxics have similarities with people with autistic spectrum conditions.
There is strong overlap between Dyspraxia and Aspergers, but Dyspraxics have more in common with Dyslexics and ADHD in regards to disorganization,being nonroutine,nonlinear,and problems with short term memory as well as directions,time.

http://www.danda.org.uk/pages/about-danda.php

my test results/reports ,and neurological,psychological insight into my personality are here

something that nobody on this forum can do whether they think that the can do it from Astrology,Psychic stuff,or from reading a psychological textbook that they have studied in psychology class

http://astynaz.myphotoalbum.com/view_album.php?set_albumName=album01

Raymond

posted July 02, 2009 11:46 AM            

D

------------------
Every night and every morn,
Some to misery are born;
Every morn and every night,
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

posted July 02, 2009 11:56 AM              

kinda negates your apology. can't the thread remain a tribute to michael without anything negative further being said?

like i would say to the kids, take it outside.

it's like:

a family fight at a wedding
a drunk cousin at a funeral

just not the time or the place.

posted July 02, 2009 11:57 AM            

D

------------------
Every night and every morn,
Some to misery are born;
Every morn and every night,
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

posted July 02, 2009 12:03 PM            

On behalf of all my fellow MJ fans, thank you for speaking up for us distressed, grieving, mourning loyal fans You made perfect sense.

Judge not, or thou shall be judged.

Meaning the first one who judges- further upsetting us already shattered fans

D

------------------
Every night and every morn,
Some to misery are born;
Every morn and every night,
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

posted July 02, 2009 12:30 PM            

&

D

------------------
Every night and every morn,
Some to misery are born;
Every morn and every night,
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

posted July 02, 2009 12:41 PM            

Take care, my fellow MJ fans. I love you guys.

The others, who do not empathize with us-

Please leave us alone. Leave Michael alone.

Thank you.

D

------------------
Every night and every morn,
Some to misery are born;
Every morn and every night,
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

posted July 02, 2009 03:43 PM            

I dont know about the rest on this thread, but I certainly didn't ask for your test results, your personality and psychoogical disorders mean jack to me.

posted July 02, 2009 04:28 PM              

The other night my Taurus friend wanted to tell me that MJ's children were not even his or that woman he was suppose to have them by, they maybe adopted and then he continued with, "My other friend (another Taurus I know off and on) was like maybe he was a homosexual." Then he ended his MJ rant with, " I liked MJ when he was black before he went off the deep end in self insecurities."

To be honest I don't even know if thats true or not because I don't pay much attention to tabloids or news (depressing stuff)...

I posted in the "Diana" thread that people are always going to talk about the good and the bad of MJ but right now I am having a huge "WTF" moment O.o;;..

posted July 02, 2009 11:06 PM            

hey...I have my complexes. I have my flaws. I was never in denial of that. Besides my neurodivergences, I have diagnosed Generalized Anxiety Disorder,Dysthymic Disorder,and Avoidant Personality Disorder just like the reports said. They are all connected to my greatest problems - my insecurity and low self esteem as well feelings of inferiority as well as caring too much about what people think and feel about me....it's all connected to my life as neurodivergent person,my special education experiences, my abuse by mother and stepfather, not fitting gender stereotypes/having lower than average testosterone/high estrogen levels, and my multiracial heritage and the confusion that I had about it, and the psychiatric misdiagnoses that I had. Of course, my chronic feelings of being dumb and ugly. I have feelings of insecurity that constantly creep in me and make me feel that I am not good enough for anybody whether its to be somebody relationship partner,friend, or even relative. I even admit that I have a strong history of suicidal feelings and feelings of just wanting to die, but I have never attempted suicide. Many times..even now, I have desired death,just praying to God for it. I'd never take my own life,and I feel that it's a selfish thing to do. I have spiritual beliefs about the consequences of suicide being wrong I have witnessed my mother's suicide attempts. It was my maternal grandfather's suicide that changed my life,and led me to New Age,New Thought things,Astrology,and back to believing in God again after 2 years of semi-atheism. There is not a single day that I don't miss my fellow Pisces Moon grandfather. There is not a single day that I don't do whatever I can not to wind up like him. I don't want to be an alcoholic like him. I never knew my father who was very insecure man because of his own neurodivergence,and he was a drug addict. He was a Pisces Moon too. My greatest fears are being like my mother,my father,and my grandfather. I don't smoke,drink,nor use drugs. I have my own drug addiction in the form of sugar, but I kicked that habit last summer. I still have an addiction to solitude. I tend to be a recluse. I find it worse than any drug.

I never in any way, thought I was better than anybody. I never thought I was important person. I even lack confidence in myself. That's one of the reasons that I am not a professional astrologer. It's one of the reasons why I would like to start a nonprofit neurodiversity organization but don't think that it will be realistic to me start one until 2014 or even later.

All I did was express alternative views that diverged from the views here.. That's all I did. There is no reason to get all rude,nasty,cuss at me,and slam me.

These are the same things that many people have to worry about for expressing religious views in certain countries.

I feel that these are very mainstream reactions to alternative viewpoints made.

I stressed that it was never about right or wrong.

Also I am not going to shut up for anybody just because a person doesn't like what I say. Nobody owns me. I am not going to tell anybody else to shut up either. We are all free human beings.

as for you Virgoh,
I wish duels were legal.
Like in the days of knights and chivalry, people fought to defend their honor with swords. It was a battle to the death.
I grew reading about this stuff. I liked the Arthurian legends. My favorite character was Lancelot. I feel at times that fighting can resolve certain things.
I am a strong believer in self defense, and I believe in fighting my own battles.

A civil war even led to the freedom of slaves.

I find men that talk smack to other men behind a computer are cowards. They don't say it in person.

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted July 02, 2009 11:45 PM            

If you look at the chart that's been tested for years now by transits, Progressions and Solar Arcs you'll see that over the last 6 months, every health center and every planet ruling the health centers of his chart have been under severe strain.

The chart I use for Michael Jackson is"

August 29, 1958
Gary, Indiana
11:53 PM

They've been saying that he was begging for drugs to help him sleep. His inability to sleep probably began as Uranus was transiting back and forth conjuncting his Moon and squaring his Ascendant. Having a Gemini Ascendant affects the nervous system. When Uranus comes along with it's shocks and intensity, this equals anxiety and nerves that can keep you awake. It also suggests the erratic nature of his finances since the Moon rules his 2nd House of personal finances.

Transiting Neptune has been crossing back and forth over his Midheaven for over 2 years. When Neptune contacts one of your angles there is massive confusion, paranoia, deception where you're easily deceived and may deceive others. Neptune rules all kinds of drugs and the Midheaven can rule the spine and the back. Neptune disolves things and it may have been disolving his back during that time period. Neptune also rules "SHAME" and he has dealt with tremendous shame over his lifestyle and through that molestation trial, also the first custody battle with Debbie Rowe and then over his massive debts and losing his estate. No one believed him whenever he said he wasn't feeling well enough to go to court, even to the point where he showed up in his pajamas. Neptune can make it appear as if you are lying...I believe Neptune was showing that he wasn't lying but making people think that he was. Also, when Neptune is affecting your health it makes it very difficult for health professionals to make a proper diagnosis.

The day he died, transiting Pluto was quindecile his ASC. His Ascendant is 16 degrees Gemini, Pluto was and still is at 1 degree Capricorn. That is the 165 degree aspect.

For all of you who have late Sagittarius Ascendants and recently experienced Pluto transiting your Ascendant over the last 2 years, you'll understand the kind of MASSIVE change and PRESSURE that transit can create. He was creating a massive change in his life and he was doing whatever he felt he needed to do in order to be successful with his last come back. I highly suspect he was also getting cortisone shots for his back in addition to all of the other pain killers he needed. But I'm placing my bets on him dying from using that surgical strength anesthesia to sleep.

As good as everyone is claiming that he looked on his last day, it might have been true, but no matter how thin he was or no matter how much he ate, etc., Michael had a male ballet dancer's physical build. As most professional ballet dancers age, they develope some of the worst physical problems with their bodies because the changes they create in their physiology isn't natural and they wind up with all kinds of crazy arthritis and bone issues and just pain into their old age. Michael took a long break in addition to not eating enough. Being a vegetarian doesn't mean that you only eat one meal a day as Lou Ferrigno has been explaining in interviews, if anything, a man Michael's size would have to increase his protein intake in order to safely being building himself up again to perform again at the level he used to perform.

In addition to transiting Pluto being quindecile to his ASC, it is also quindecile to his Venus, ruler of his 12th House Health Center. Last but not leasy, Pluto rules his 6th House Health Center. Michael's chart is being hit in all 3 health centers.

Oh, let's not forget, transiting Saturn was also square his Ascendant. When Pluto and Saturn are strongly aspecting one of your health centers, God help you, literally!

Now I'm falling asleep, but if anyone is interested in what was happening with him 6 months ago when that biographer talked about Michael having serious health issues, check out my thread in "Know Two Are Alike". It was the first thing that I addressed when I started that thread. I have his Solar Arc Chart and his Transit Chart for the day that story hit the news. His camp of handlers denied it about a week later and showed pictures of him out and about shopping and everything, saying he was OK. I felt stupid after that, but glad that he was OK. Well, I was proven correct in the most awful manner as I am one of his fans with a very complicated love for him.

posted July 03, 2009 07:22 AM            

My very good friends and my loving fellow MJ fans- Lara, VirgOh- in fact, anyone of interest, please for once take this quite seriously:

quote:

---

Our approach may offend many, may be misunderstood by many- but once we Aries, stellium Aries, and Mars conj ASC, Mars in the 1st people learn to incorporate the virtues of some of the other zodiac signs, we surely can accomplish a great deal.

I suggest that we fellow Mars/Aries predominant people learn from:

The diplomacy of the symbolism of Libra;

The powerful will, mental stamina, amazing self-control, often indirect self-defense, or counterattack, or initiation, and discretion of the symbolism of Scorpio-

[EDITED TO ADD:]"Speak softly, but carry a big stick." ~ Theodore Roosevelt, solar Scorpio

The incredible patience, determination to succeed, the deceptive (but not necessarily remotely in a negative sense) calmness/nonchalance, the knowing of the useful being quiet (on the appropriate occasions, that is) which often procedes being loud...of the symbolism of Capricorn.

Then our likelihood of conquering the enemy (whoever they are) and win the many battles that are life itself, significantly increases.

---

That's how we deal with uninvited provokers with ulterior motives, or with their own vehemently denied narcissistic personality and subtle intellectual manipulation, plus a very deceptive disguise, to begin with.

The last thing we MJ fans would like is having this thread closed by LL moderators or Randall, owing to our lack of wisdom. Please take this seriously. We want to come here to pay respects and tribute to Michael, in rememberance of him, honoring him and his legacy...please do not allow ourselves to be the victims of our own shortcomings. Diplomacy is the best policy. Again, I must stress that, none of us mourning fans would ever want this thread to be CLOSED. Please be patient instead of being easily provocable, instead of being impulsive; please try and be tactful as much as possible. On behalf of Michael and all our fellow fans world-wide, thank you for your consideration.

D

------------------
Every night and every morn,
Some to misery are born;
Every morn and every night,
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

posted July 03, 2009 07:45 AM            

quote:

---

no one judged you, you give yourself all this huge importance.

---

quote:

---

but I certainly didn't ask for your test results, your personality and psychoogical disorders

---

Anyone with a sharp mind can sense the narcissism and obsessiveness in the person. Unfortunately, the majority of LL members have yet to see that through. Be careful not to use emotional language when dealing with someone like this with ulterior motives and self-denied, deep-rooted unconscious issues who happens to be an articulate, analytical, popular Scorpio. We all need to be diplomatic and graceful with the person to avoid ending up letting the person meeting exactly his own ends. We all would hate to see this thread CLOSED. No matter what posts the person continue to send onto this thread, learn from the Scorpio spirit- ignore the person as if the person is invisible, as if the person does not exist- that's the best tactic.

quote:

---

Listen to D

---

VirgOh, Thank you for understanding where I was coming from. I also understand where you're coming from, my friend- but in order to conquer any entity which intends to destroy us, we must be tactful, we must be patient and nonchalant. We need the right strategies.

Orange, you said:

quote:

---

I don't think

---

quote:

---

needs to apologise for anything. He just stated his opinion and he wasn't even offensive or rude, like the real MJ haters are. He was defensive, not offensive. I don't think

---

quote:

---

has ever been rude to anyone, really.
Leave him alone already and move on.

---

Unfortunately, for human beings, truth is indeed relative and elusive, because at this age of the so-called scientifically, technologically advanced modern world, humankind remains blind and ignorant about even our own origins, the true beginning of the all, and humankind remains savages. Hence truth is relative and elusive for human beings.

Please read the following:

MyVirgoMask
Knowflake
Posts: 762
From:
Registered: May 2009

posted June 28, 2009 06:32 PM

quote:

---

Alternative view points to what, exactly? Compassion? Grace?

I'll grieve for a guilty person just as I'd grieve for one who isn't.
Yes, I would grieve for the death of a killer, a pedophile, or anyone who is guilty. Because death is death, and there were people who loved these people, and even if there weren't then maybe they need someone to love and mourn them.

And none of us know for fact if MJ was or wasn't guilty... and frankly, at this point in time, I don't think it's appropriate or *humane* to decide.

I don't think anyone is making the guy out to be a saint - the thread is called 'Michael Jackson Dead'... why can't it just be about paying RESPECTS to him as an artist? Or even a fellow human being? Why does it have to descend to the level of pointing fingers at how guilty he may or may not have been?
Where is the grace and the dignity in that?

---

Orange,

MVM said it all.

D

------------------
Every night and every morn,
Some to misery are born;
Every morn and every night,
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

posted July 03, 2009 07:49 AM            

Lets see now - my favourite MJ song is Human Nature. Oh, yeah, I already said that.

Next, probably Billie Jean.

posted July 03, 2009 07:57 AM            

D

------------------
Every night and every morn,
Some to misery are born;
Every morn and every night,
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

posted July 03, 2009 12:15 PM            

lol what happened to MJ's thread!!! hahaha