posted September 12, 2011 05:22 PM            

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Originally posted by maira:
I also agree with Geo, I always use this chart for Michael. Everything speaks to me, from mars in the 12th to chiron in Aqua on the MC.

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posted September 13, 2011 12:16 AM            

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(PT notes that these source notes are written roughly in the order in which they were collected by AstroDatabank staff): Michael Jackson, "Moonwalk," Doubleday, 1988, was misquoted for 11:45 PM CDT. On p.6 the year and place are given, no date or time. Nelson George "The Michael Jackson Story," a Dell book, 1984, p.24, gives the date and place, no time.

Richard Gehman called 9/l993 with a time of 7:54 AM CDT "from someone close to Michael."

Grazia Bordoni writes 10/93 that Mercurio-3 gave 3:00 AM "from him."

Zip Dobyns has 1:30 AM "from a close friend of Michael's to a fellow astrologer." Dobyns speculates late Aquarius rising. Kim Baker speculates 12:09 PM in NCGR Newsletter article. Lois Rodden spec-rectifies to 8:47 AM CDT.

Basil Fearrington rectifies to 11:53 PM in "Astrology of the Famed," writing in a footnote of the Introduction that "I had many opportunities to observe Michael but could not get close enough to ask him about his time of birth." On 12/31/1998, Fearrington emailed the statement that "I had occasion, while playing in the opening act for the very last Jackson tour to ask Michael what his time of birth was. He said "I will tell you as I told Jackie Onassis, all I know is that it was late in the evening, definitely after 10:30 PM." However, LMR notes that "Astrology of the Famed" was published in 1996 and Jackson's last tour was in 1984 so there is some question about this. Shortly after Jackson's death in late June 2009, Steven Stuckey wrote to PT: "My friend and teacher of 25 years,Vedic astrologer Chakrapani Ullal, was Michael Jackson's astrologer in the late '80's. Michael gave him a time of birth of 7:33 PM." In a follow-up e-mail, Stuckey confirmed that Chakrapani received the time from Jackson directly. Edith Hathaway submitted the same time also from Chakrapani Ullal. PT also talked with Chakrapani who confirmed that he received the time directly from Michael. At around the same time Michael Munkasey called citing Ed Healin for 12:09 PM. Ed worked at a record company and did charts as well. When Michael Jackson approached Ed to read his chart, Ed sent Jackson away, saying something like "get the time from your birth certificate." When Jackson returned, he told Ed that he had been born at 12:09 PM according to his birth certificate. Given that there are numerous reports with dfferent times, many from Jackson himself, PT maintained the DD rating as of July 2009. Later, in a post on Data@yahoogroups by Marie-Christine Sclifet, quoting Taj Jackson, a nephew of the performer quoted a birth certificate, writing: "got the official word from Grandma herself. :-) Uncle Michael was born at 7:33 PM."

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posted September 13, 2011 05:33 AM            

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Originally posted by Geocosmic* Valentine:
I use this birth data for Michael.

August 29, 1958
Gary, Indiana
11:53 PM

(...)

One thing that I love about his chart is his Mercury Retrograde. Michael Jackson was very Mercurial, just like the mythological character Mercury. The God Mercury is often portrayed with wings on his feet and a hat similar to the fedora hats the Michael wore ever since he first performed the Moonwalk on the Motown 25 Celebration show. Michael's beaded socks remind me of the wings on Mercury's feet. So when he Moonwalks, he is the perfect image of Mercury Retrograde, Mercury walking backwards.

The night he first Moonwalked he was wearing an outfit that consisted of a silver sequined shirt, with a black sequined jacket over it. And as me danced and sang under the lights he looked like the chemical Mercury which is a dark silver in color. The way Mercury moves around when you put it on a flat surface, it rolls around and is very slippery, kind of like Michael Moonwalking, looking as if he is sliding backwards even as he moves forward.

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posted September 13, 2011 08:50 PM            

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Originally posted by Lonake:
This is what Astrodatabank has, not that I really care about his chart,

^ Obv there are a lot of liars connected to him cos the guy didn't pop out a bazillion times.

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Well, I'm going to go with what Michael's nephew Tweeted...because he asked MJ's mother and that's the time she gave him - 7:33 PM. If you run the chart you'll see it makes way more sense than any other birth time out there, too - Moon in Pisces right by the ascendant, the asteroid Orpheus (which is linked to musical talent), right on his midheaven.
http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1000019817/192#192
http://twitter.com/#!/tajjackson3/status/22385183756
http://twitter.com/#!/tajjackson3/status/22385519465

The chart :

posted September 13, 2011 11:07 PM            

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Originally posted by Lonake:
Someone said they heard 3 o'clock from Michael himself. Memories of mothers aren't v. reliable. Esp v.old ones. It is basically whatever you want to believe.

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She got the time right off of his birth certificate. lol

posted September 13, 2011 11:42 PM            

It's the same thing with Madonna. She told someone she's Aqua rising and her dad told someone quoting BC that she's Virgo rising. So it's DD.

posted September 14, 2011 12:03 AM            

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Originally posted by Lonake:
Why would Astrodatabank rate it as DD if it's info from BC from a close family member? You're working with DD info. Not that it matters much, you can still glean a lot without it. Obv he has strong Neptune influence either way you cut it.

It's the same thing with Madonna. She told someone she's Aqua rising and her dad told someone quoting BC that she's Virgo rising. So it's DD.

Also someone rectified MJ's tob to something completely diff so those don't count much either. Or maybe it does who knows. I don't personally trust rectifications.

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Astrodatabank is probably one of *the* worst sites online when it comes to birth data, you should pretty much never rely on anything you read there. Same for Astrotheme. Probably the most accurate is Astrodienst, but even they admit the time they have on MJ is questionable.

posted September 14, 2011 12:15 AM            

"Alois
Global Moderator
Astrodienst Staff
Adb editor"

quote:

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The Astro-Databank wiki publishes the huge collection of astrological data collected by Lois Rodden and her cooperators, so that these data can be used for astrological research, for astrological publications and for serious astrological discussion.

Most of the biography entries were written by Lois Rodden herself, and we are currently maintaining them with minor updates. It is unavoidable that such biographies contain personal opinion and carry a personal style.

At Astrodienst, it is beyond our editing capacity at this time to research and rewrite this huge collection of biography information.

We have added links to wikipedia to a large number of database entries. That way, it is easy to access a large pool of additional information, which can lead to a more profound view of a particular person.

Still, we think that the existing biography text serves an important purpose, to get an idea about what a person my be known for and why a person is found in this database.

When Astro-databank was created, there was no Google and no Wikipedia. Now there is, and users of Astro-Databank SHOULD use these additional resources.

Our purpose is to provide reliable birth data. This is a purpose nobody else serves on the Internet to such an extent as we do (except some who have stolen the information from Astro-Databank and who fail to give their sources).

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posted September 14, 2011 12:24 AM            

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Originally posted by Lonake:
Astrodienst runs the Astrodatabank Wiki. Look at their forum 'Astro-Databank discussion'.

"Alois
Global Moderator
Astrodienst Staff
Adb editor"

[QUOTE]The Astro-Databank wiki publishes the huge collection of astrological data collected by Lois Rodden and her cooperators, so that these data can be used for astrological research, for astrological publications and for serious astrological discussion.

Most of the biography entries were written by Lois Rodden herself, and we are currently maintaining them with minor updates. It is unavoidable that such biographies contain personal opinion and carry a personal style.

At Astrodienst, it is beyond our editing capacity at this time to research and rewrite this huge collection of biography information.

We have added links to wikipedia to a large number of database entries. That way, it is easy to access a large pool of additional information, which can lead to a more profound view of a particular person.

Still, we think that the existing biography text serves an important purpose, to get an idea about what a person my be known for and why a person is found in this database.

When Astro-databank was created, there was no Google and no Wikipedia. Now there is, and users of Astro-Databank SHOULD use these additional resources.

Our purpose is to provide reliable birth data. This is a purpose nobody else serves on the Internet to such an extent as we do (except some who have stolen the information from Astro-Databank and who fail to give their sources).

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Tho I wouldn't know why his mother would let it out if she knows it's against her son's wishes. Neptune has a tendency to be a 'family epidemic' [/QUOTE]

Since when are they both run by Astrodienst? Last time I went to the Astro-databank it was a completely different url, layout, site, the whole nine (and it's been a while since I've gone there because I figured out early on that their data was crappy). I stick primarily with this one :
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Main_Page

posted September 14, 2011 12:40 AM            

I was sure I looked up famous and infamous charts on ADB prior to 2009 but maybe I was wrong lol. The thread on the acquiring of it makes it sound like the data was kept secret unless you were in the ADB club. Nevertheless it looks like Astrodienst turned it into a Wiki-like site (as it is now).

posted September 14, 2011 12:49 AM            

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Originally posted by Lonake:
I was a bit concerned when you said they were different. I went to check on the URL, my bookmark, against the one posted when Astrodienst acquired ADB. And it's the same. Astrodatabank.com redirects to http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Main_Page I don't know what the old URL was.
Apparently sometime before or around 2009 ADB was in dire financial straits. Obv it makes no sense for two versions to be running simultaneously. When Astrodienst acquired ADB they added the ability to save charts to My Astro, etc. current version was released March 12, 2009.

"For all we know"
---Exactly.

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No, there was another place with the name Astrodatabank that is (or was) completely separate from Astrodienst, a completely different site; a rinky-dink little out of the way site that always had wrong birth times. What happened to it I don't know; I just went Googling a few minutes back to show you and it's apparently vanished or something.

posted March 08, 2019 10:47 AM            

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Originally posted by BelligerentPygmy:
No, there was another place with the name Astrodatabank that is (or was) completely separate from Astrodienst, a completely different site; a rinky-dink little out of the way site that always had wrong birth times. What happened to it I don't know; I just went Googling a few minutes back to show you and it's apparently vanished or something.

At the end of the day when it comes to the birth time issue it's up to people to choose what they want to believe for themselves. I believe the time given by his mom is the accurate one so that's the one I go with and I consider it way more credible than random rectifications and he said she said stuff from people who didn't actually know Michael, or a bunch of conflicting times that came from the man himself, probably with the intent to mislead people in an understandable attempt at privacy and self-protection, so...

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Since MJ is back in the news, I wanted to check his date of death to look for death indicators and see which of these birth data might fit more. I'm not experienced in this, but how often does it happen when someone dies and a big planet is *not* making an aspect with a sensitive point such as an angle, or the 8t house cusp? Anyways, when I tweak his birth data for 23:53 a bit, to 23:25 or 23:28 , his Pluto would have just entered the 8th House, Pholus on the DC, and requiem close to MC. Transiting RIP conj transiting NN

However with birthtime 23:53, asteroids Neverland and Dejanira are both like 2 degrees one each side of his AC, while the 23:25 puts them further down but still in the first house.
For 23:53 asteroid Child is conj his IC, the other one has Uranus on the IC (also fitting for his childhood) and Pinocchio close by lol.

posted March 08, 2019 09:23 PM            

As a parent raising my
children alone..I would
never have let my children
Be alone with him, something
just wasn't right with
him...