posted June 28, 2009 11:33 AM            

"If you weren't there in the same room and saw it happening then simply eat sh*t already and stop your pathetic accusations and FYFI I personally know the father of a kid (Now a grown up teen) in his early 20's who fully trusted MJ with his son who used to spend extended periods of time with MJ, that kid is an Arab Lebanese, and he was questioned during MJ's trial a few years ago about his relation with MJ and he had the nicest things to say about the man both him and his dad."

I wasn't making accusations. I was giving alternative viewpoints.

"Bla Bla Bla all freaking day long analyzing this n that and comparing this to that and looking at everything from an astrological perspective and linking his death to it like as if, if you are looking for praise on your astrological knowledge you wont get it on this thread so give it a fu****g rest already man, the guy is dead."

The last time I checked. It's an astrological forum. There is nothing wrong with talking about the astrology of Michael Jackson in the forum nor giving alternative viewpoints for that matter.

No...I am not looking for praise on my astrological knowledge. I don't really don't care about..especially when we all have our different ways of doing Astrology. I was just looking at the transits and stuff.
everybody should be able to share their own views without being attacked for them.

man...this is no different from sharing religious views,and people getting slammed for them.

it's kinda like fundamental religion

another thing....who the hell are you tell me what to do???

saying stuff like telling me to eat sh-t
man...WTF

It's easy to say that stuff behind the computer
try being all tough and rude and saying that to my face,man.

I don't have to do what you tell me to do. You don't own me. I am not your slave,servant. Try telling somebody else that on the street.

I can post as well as I damned please just like everybody else in the forum.

If you don't like that, tough sh-t.

I am not going to kiss your ass nor nobody else's.

I don't expect anybody to kiss mine either.

There is nothing wrong with giving alternative viewpoints to things.

posted June 28, 2009 11:43 AM            

Roy MacKinnon, the manager of the astrology group told me
that one of the things that he appreciates about my approach is my preparedness to look
at the opposing viewpoint to the prevailing one. He say that this is absolutely invaluable and leads to better and more objective thinking in that it forces the reader to consider the possibility of bias and prejudice as weaknesses in thinking.

I want to say that's just his view.

That doesn't mean that it's right nor that it's wrong. It's not about that.

that goes for anything that I say or anybody else says.

we all have our views

like somebody said, it's not all cut and dry.
it can be all relative based on the perceptions of others, and those are relative.

it's not about who is right nor who is wrong.

I don't think we should go tell people "eat sh-t" or tell people to shut up and other things just because we don't like others' viewpoints and disagree with them.

That's like the same issues that we have with religion and politics.

if a person doesn't like what they read, then why not ignore it or just don't read it.

nobody is putting a gun to his/her and forcing him/her to read it.

everybody is free to read or not read something just like everybody is free to post or not post something.

if a person can't post anything without worrying about people slamming him/her because they disagree with the view, then it can make him/her uncomfortable posting about anything. This just natural human thing.

its like if a person afraid to make a speech, but afraid to get things thrown at them because the crowd doesn't like what they say, and so the person never gets on the stage and speak. All it is just his view that he should be able to speak as a free person.

that's just one example.

any ways

I agree to disagree

posted June 28, 2009 11:55 AM            

heck..it's very interesting that the retrograde Jupiter-Neptune-Chiron
conjuncting his Venus and transiting Saturn-Ceres conjuncting his Mars when
Michael died. I wondered if he was having regrets for lying,causing the
downfall of Michael or if he didn't lie, reliving the pain of being molested.

I also noticed that he has Venus in Aquarius square Uranus in Scorpio,and that
seems like he has a highly unconventional love nature. Therefore, it makes me
wonder if he really was gay and that he developed a romantic infatuation for
Michael. Maybe Michael rejected him, and so he accused him of molesting of him.

he's living under another name,and so he's obviously hiding.
If he came out, he might even end up with death threats.

posted June 28, 2009 12:33 PM            

How does a person look gay?

how does anybody look gay?

posted June 28, 2009 12:34 PM            

$2 millions were spent by prosecuters of California to find evidences against Michael jackson, more then 200 ppl were interogated as witnesses and the whole Neverland was searched from top to bottom and not one evidence was found at the end.

posted June 28, 2009 05:04 PM            

You yourself knew you were going to get slammed for it, so why are you all hurt now?

"let me say some stuff, and I will probably get slammed for this too" You sure did.

"I get the impression that this guy being made out to be a saint" He is far from it.

"Many pedophiles can come off child-like too...they can use that child-likeness
to connect to children easily" Seems like you know a thing or two about the subject.

"Also Jordan gave a good detailed description of Michael's genitals" He did not, it was his dad who drew it, so before you act like you know it all you better research the crap you type.

"He did share a bed with children. that's a big red flag" Again you are implying that he is a Pedophile. My ex is 37, her son is 10 and at times he still sleeps next to her, so freaking what!? Does that make her a Pedophile?

"btw...I've been told numerous times that I sound like Michael Jackson when I
talk, and I got flack for it like "you,fag" or "sound like you have a dick
in your mouth" or you sound like a little b-tch" when I was in chatrooms on
yahoo."

Dude seriously, get a life.

"How does a person look gay?"
"How does anybody look gay?"

Are you serious?

You dont know how one looks gay? Let me give you an "Alternative Viewpoint" this time, why dont you go look at yourself in the mirror, and try not to get your knickers up in a twist when you are doing it?

And dont reply back with a 10 page newspaper like you always do, I am not in the mood.

VirgOh!

posted June 28, 2009 06:32 PM            

I'll grieve for a guilty person just as I'd grieve for one who isn't.
Yes, I would grieve for the death of a killer, a pedophile, or anyone who is guilty. Because death is death, and there were people who loved these people, and even if there weren't then maybe they need someone to love and mourn them.

And none of us know for fact if MJ was or wasn't guilty... and frankly, at this point in time, I don't think it's appropriate or *humane* to decide.

I don't think anyone is making the guy out to be a saint - the thread is called 'Michael Jackson Dead'... why can't it just be about paying RESPECTS to him as an artist? Or even a fellow human being? Why does it have to descend to the level of pointing fingers at how guilty he may or may not have been?
Where is the grace and the dignity in that?

posted June 28, 2009 07:37 PM            

Although expected at this point in his life, astrologically, he is having a great time involving album sales.

posted June 29, 2009 08:38 AM            

PLEASE READ-

http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/where-is-jordan-chandler-now/#comment-4967

quote:

---

the floacist 2007 October 25 permalink

Jordan never accurately described the marks on Michael’s genitalia. In fact, he wasn’t even the one who drew it in the first place; Evan Chandler (his father) did. In January 1994, USA Today printed an article confirming that, “photos of Michael Jackson’s genitalia do not match descriptions given by the boy who accused the singer of sexual misconduct.” Some tabloid reports may indicate otherwise but keep in mind that the District Attorney brought his “evidence” in front of two grand juries and charges were not filed. If the photos matched the boy’s description, the case would have probably gone to trial.
http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/11/08/settlement-not-enough/

If I a was an abused victim as a child, I wouldn’t want nor accept money. If a child and/or a parent settles for money they’re ******* heartless, lack of moral and have no decency. You do not accept money from a criminal who violated your son or daughter. A better question is why take money to forget you were molested? If I was a victim of rape or molestation, I and my family would want that perpetrator to be in prison – more likely for himself being abused, and see how he likes it. Let an offender free into the public?

What a lot of people simply do not understand is that there was never, ever a single iota of information which connected Jackson to the 1993 allegations, and yet there was an absolute wealth of information which suggested he was innocent. What people also don’t realize is that when Jackson paid his settlement, he was settling a civil case not a criminal case; he was not being prosecuted, he was being sued. There is a clause in the settlement which states that Jackson in no way acknowledges any wrongdoing by signing the settlement. There is another clause which specifically states that a settlement in the civil case in no way affects the recipients’ right to testify in a criminal case. The reason no criminal case was brought in 1993 was that the allegations were ludicrous and they couldn’t find any information to back them up. Thomas Sneddon presented the case to two grand juries and both of them laughed him out of court. He wasn’t even allowed to bring charges because his case was so pathetic.

The belief Jackson ‘bought his way out of jail’ has no weight yet everyone uses that as their blind justification of guilt. There was never a case against Jackson in 1993 and that was evident over a year prior to the settlement. With the criminal case in limbo because it was so moronic and the allegations hanging over his head until the media got some resolution, a settlement was the only way Jackson could make everything disappear. Diane Dimond known for her stupid antics to try to make anything ‘Michael Jackson’ even bigger than what it was, leaked the actual documents of the settlement. In the documents one find many ‘interesting’ things. For example, in the document Michael Jackson denies ever having any sexual contact with Jordan Chandler. And to make things even more interesting, the parents of Jordan Chandler, Evan and June Chandler agreed to that denial. Here is that part of the document:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art3/0616041jacko5.gif

Also, in the document it actually says the Chandlers can only speak of the case in a court of law. For 10 years the media has been spreading the lie that the settlement somehow stopped the Chandlers from testifying against Jackson. Another myth destroyed by the factual document.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art3/0616041jacko7.gif

Another myth that the settlement was for more than 30 million when in fact it was only 15,331,250, both Evan and June Chandler obtained 1.5 million while Larry Feldman obtained 3 million and 10% of the settlement which would bring his earnings to 5 million dollars.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art3/0616041jacko21.gif

And how much Jordan Chandler got? The most he could’ve gotten was 8 million dollars. Who leaked this private document? The only party that had this particular document was Lisa Marie Presley’s attorney at the time. So who gave it to Diane Dimond? Hmmm.

Entire document here:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0616041jacko1.html

You also left out the part where Jordan and has told people [personal] that Michael Jackson is not a pedophile. You also left out the part where last year in July, Evan Chandler struck his son with a dumbbell and basically tried to murder him.
http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/decisions/appellate/a0422-05.opn.html

What a great father. Not only that, he wrote a book about his son’s rape. “Michael Jackson Was My Lover-The Secret Diary of Jordie Chandler”. Even his brother chipped in. Raymond Chandler, author of book “All That Glitters: The Crime and the Cover Up” which deals with the alleged sexual abuse of his nephew Jordie by Michael Jackson. Team effort! How considerate. [edit] That book was written by Victor Guiteriezz, he also said that there was a videotape of Michael molesting one of Jermaine’s sons. Michael sued him about the book AND Hard Copy(they ran the story about the fake videotape) and Michael won the suit, but Victor left the country. It was one of the few times Michael actually fought back the allegations.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6996/bookqf2.jpg

You also forgot the part where Evan Chandler was caught on tape speaking about his extortion plans on the telephone. You can read the whole transcript here
http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/the-tapes-will-come-out-court-transcrip t-of-chandler/

Please don’t ever leave a comment like that again. I know first hand what it feels like to be raped. I’m not going to go into detail, because thats personal. Do you know how that feels like? Maybe you do, maybe you don’t. Point is. Let me tell you something. I am not some crazy fan who believes in his innocence because I like ‘Beat It’ and ‘Thriller’. If he was a child molester I’d burn all my CDs & memorabilia and wish him to burn in hell.

Do I approve of Michael having sleepovers with young children that are not his own? NO! That violates a social norm, and that is why it is looked down upon. However, entire families visit the Ranch. There is no way possible that this man could possible have the time and secrecy to abuse a child in his house, and not have the victim find their way out and tell their parents immediately. When Michael infamously said he shared his bed, he didn’t mean his literal bedroom. They’re not even IN his bedroom. His home is 3,000 acres. Guests stay over in the guest rooms, as in parents and their children. If said children would like to stay with Michael (and Lisa Marie Presley his ex-wife testified this herself that they follow them where ever they go) he specifically said that he tells them to ask their guardians if its okay. And if they do, Michael sleeps on the floor. It is rude to let a guest sleep on a coach, a floor or any other uncomfortable position while you stay in the comfort of your own bed.

Reply

---

Please view all the documents and transcripts, quotes via the links provided. Please take time and your patience to read the entirety of them all.

D

------------------
Every night and every morn,
Some to misery are born;
Every morn and every night,
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

posted June 29, 2009 08:43 AM            

D

------------------
Every night and every morn,
Some to misery are born;
Every morn and every night,
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

posted June 29, 2009 11:20 AM            

quote:

---

another thing....who the hell are you tell me what to do???

saying stuff like telling me to eat sh-t
man...WTF

It's easy to say that stuff behind the computer
try being all tough and rude and saying that to my face,man.

I don't have to do what you tell me to do. You don't own me. I am not your slave,servant. Try telling somebody else that on the street.

I can post as well as I damned please just like everybody else in the forum.

If you don't like that, tough sh-t.

I am not going to kiss your ass nor nobody else's.

I don't expect anybody to kiss mine either.

---

VirgOh said what was on his mind, being honest with himself- however, it takes a prudent individual to converse with you, Glaucus, and it must be done in diplomatic fashion- since you are obviously very sensitive to other people's reactions to your actions, word by word; and you are easily provoked.

With all due respect, Glaucus- I would not deny the fact that you are a gifted astrologer. However, you do have your own issues to sort out (who among us doesn't? You are not the only one, don't get me wrong)- one of those being your anger and your high provocableness. Also, your constant excessive self-absorbtion. Plus your frequent insistence on your own points being detached and unemotinal.

I would suggest that you re-examine your Mars. Are you also going to tell me who the h*** I am to tell you what to do?

quote:

---

How does a person look gay?

how does anybody look gay?

---

Glaucus, you were challenging the weakness in VirgOh's statement, and apparently, you were upset about presumably homophobia or discrimination toward non-heterosexuals. I've read from your other posts that you are anti-homophobia. Had VirgOh been more diplomatic, no such opportunity would have been given to you to take it personally.

quote:

---

I wondered if he was having regrets for lying,causing the
downfall of Michael or if he didn't lie, reliving the pain of being molested.

---

So much for your astrological analyses- they remain speculations.

quote:

---

it makes me
wonder if he really was gay and that he developed a romantic infatuation for
Michael. Maybe Michael rejected him, and so he accused him of molesting of him.

---

Glaucus, since you expressed your "apathy" toward Michael Jackson, perhaps you have not cared much about researching on further related legal resources and a good deal of inside stories. Would you ever care enough to view and read the links I just posted?

Jordan Chandler's biological parents had split.

Jordan Chandler and his birth mother, June Chandler, became close friends with MJ, would accompany MJ on his concert tour, and as a matter of fact, MJ fell head over the heels for Jordan Chandler's mother- June Chandler, not the teenaged boy Jordan Chandler. Former husband, Jordan Chandler's biological father- Evan Chandler, became jealous of MJ, and set out to demolish MJ for good.

quote:

---

I agree to disagree

---

Hardly any of us would truly achieve that. Unless one can be certain that one is being totally honest with oneself- which is not always the case.

quote:

---

if a person doesn't like what they read, then why not ignore it or just don't read it.

nobody is putting a gun to his/her and forcing him/her to read it.

everybody is free to read or not read something just like everybody is free to post or not post something.

---

quote:

---

That's like the same issues that we have with religion and politics.

---

quote:

---

I don't think we should go tell people "eat sh-t" or tell people to shut up and other things just because we don't like others' viewpoints and disagree with them.

---

You were offended; if only VirgOh had been more familiar with your pattern, and been diplomatic when addressing to you.

quote:

---

it's not about who is right nor who is wrong.

---

quote:

---

I wasn't making accusations. I was giving alternative viewpoints.

---

quote:

---

There is nothing wrong with giving alternative viewpoints to things.

---

quote:

---

man...this is no different from sharing religious views,and people getting slammed for them.

it's kinda like fundamental religion

---

quote:

---

The last time I checked. It's an astrological forum. There is nothing wrong with talking about the astrology of Michael Jackson in the forum nor giving alternative viewpoints for that matter.

---

Self-justified, Glaucus.

All your talk about "providing alternative viewpoints to things regarding astrology on an astrology forum"-

Have you ever wonder why your so-called "alternative viewpoints" would not likely to be welcome or appreciated here, Glaucus?

BECAUSE this is a thread for MJ fans to pay our respects to MJ. Yes- this is an astrology forum. Please refrain from such intellectual manipulation. This thread is where MJ fans mourn and grieve for MJ, which happens to be posted on the forum Astrology 2.0; while you could find (and you have found) at least one other thread with similar nature on another forum here at LL.

You may be free to speak for what's on your mind, Glaucus.

But please respect us, as this is a place where we mourn MJ.

IF you have something to say about MJ, astrological-wise, but not to mourn for him or paying respects to him- then you might like to expect not being appreciated here, because this thread is the wrong place for you to cause yet more hurt. Please start a thread of your own, for whatever you have to say about MJ.

That's basic respect, Glaucus.

I am trying to be diplomatic and sincere with you all along, by the way.

Should you respect us, in turn, we would respect you, and your "alternative viewpoint"- on your own thread.

D

------------------
Every night and every morn,
Some to misery are born;
Every morn and every night,
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

posted June 29, 2009 11:29 AM            

quote:

---

**Shakes head** I don't know why ppl just can't give their condolences and let that be it..All this bickering and trying to prove this and that is so crazy..The man is gone now doesn't matter what he did or didnt do..He should be rememberd for his musical talent and legacy bc really thats what he was put here to do..

---

You do have a point there, Just Mia.

I do give my condolences to Michael and his loved ones.

I have.

As for the crazy spree-

Yes, it is quite insane.

Someone started it first.

VirgOh,

This is rather off-the-topic, but-

I'm just curious- while I owe you a depth of gratitude, I'd like to ask if it's okay for you to share with me your Sun, Moon, Mars, rising signs?

D

------------------
Every night and every morn,
Some to misery are born;
Every morn and every night,
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.

posted June 29, 2009 12:50 PM            

There are many people who view MJ as a saint and many who view him as a molester. Each person is entitled to their opinion AND entitled to express it.

MJ was definitely not a saint. Just look at what he did to his friend, Paul McCartney. That to me, was evil. I lost all respect for him with that one, because it was not alleged. He did it.

posted June 29, 2009 01:20 PM            

MJ was no Paedo and can we not discuss this side anymore

Jordan's dad had $$$$$$$$$$$$ signs in his eyes... WAKE UP and smell the swear campaign.

posted June 29, 2009 01:29 PM            

A LL mission... rather like Charlie's Angels, we can be Michael's Angels and clear his TRASHED name.

The man was so loved. He had so many downloads of his music since his death and so many stood up and said "MJ influenced me more than any other solo artist" so please lets give him some respect in his recent passing.

PLEASE!!!!!!! i never wanted this thread to be about the unfounded accusations about him.

posted June 29, 2009 01:59 PM            

Anyway, Sir Paul is way shiftier than MJ... that's for sure

posted June 29, 2009 02:12 PM            

lol