posted July 09, 2009 08:00 AM         

T, I'm a Taurus as well (both sun and Mercury) and definitely prefer simplicity. I've lurked on this board for years, occasionally posting, but mostly watching with intrigue as the resident "asteroid pioneers" share their findings and test theories. I think it's marvelous that we have posters here who are bright enough and brave enough to forge new territory in astrology. Trial and error, pattern-finding, correlations -- this is what turns astrology from an art into a science.

However, I give readings professionally, and I've never had a situation where asteroids revealed something that wasn't already a theme in the basic natal or synastry. Not once. Asteroids reinforce what's there; they fine-tune and add another layer of detail. But (in my opinion) the basics are what make astrology effective in the first place; the "new" findings and theories can build off that base, but they will never replace it.

My main concern with relying too much on asteroids is a matter of probabilities. The more variables you introduce, the more likely you are to find a certain aspect, a coupling of "soulmate pair" asteroids, etc. Especially in synastry, people tend to get excited when they compare a bunch of asteroids and find a few significant aspects between them. Yet if you try this with ANY two people -- that is, draw up a synastry chart including a long list of asteroids -- there will almost always be something significant, just as a matter of chance. If you're just looking at asteroids, you could probably find evidence that you're soul mates with your mailman, your 4th-grade teacher, your grocery store clerk, your neighbor's dog, Angelina Jolie, and virtually everyone else you have (or haven't) met. The more asteroids you're using, the more likely you are to randomly come across something that seems monumental but really doesn't mean a thing.

For that reason, I admire those in the astrological community who are researching and testing the effects of asteroids. At the same time, I think it can be easy to get carried away with so many new celestial objects and start seeing links or patterns you *want* to be there rather than ones that are truly valid. When you have to push aside the basics and dive into draconics, asteroids, etc. in order to find what you're looking for (especially in synastry, again), it's usually a sign that what you're looking for doesn't really exist.

Astrology is a wonderful tool when used objectively, but can easily become foggy and biased if we allow it to be so. The challenge for the astrologer is to remain impartial; this can be tough when it's our own charts and relationships that we use for research.

Regardless -- the best part about astrology is that it's limitless; as astronomy advances, astrology is constantly receiving new fodder to play with. I think it's important to keep an open mind about everything we find out in space, but not to abandon the basics in the process.

posted July 09, 2009 01:08 PM         

I guess it's akin to biology and hormones. Just as I have a Venus and a Valentine, I also have breasts and hair. Yet there are heterosexual men out there who for some reason don't intensely wish to touch my breasts and hair, just as the Scorpio/Pisces Moon Man was un-allured by my stellium in his fifth house.

Sometimes I have felt like if I posted a synastry and said, "This is my friend's synastry with her husband of seven years, the love of her life", people would find evidence of that relationship in the synastry...and if I posted the SAME synastry and said, "This is my synastry with the guy I have an unrequited crush on", they would find evidence of that. I could. I'm not a skilled astrologer, but I'm skilled with metaphor, and anything I wanted to put into an interpretation, I could. Accurately. Chart reading is so necessarily interpretive in that way. Even very fatalistic, essentialist modes of astrological practice demand a fatalistic, essentialist lifestyle to work--for instance, a polyamorous person who doesn't believe in traditional marriage and is open to a wide variety of different relationships with different people has a different approach than someone in a society where you have to have a traditional, heterosexual marriage. Then, damn straight you want a "soul mate," if you're stuck connecting your whole life to that one person, and if not them, you have to marry SOMEONE.

posted July 09, 2009 01:14 PM         

quote:

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Astrology is a wonderful tool when used objectively, but can easily become foggy and biased if we allow it to be so. The challenge for the astrologer is to remain impartial; this can be tough when it's our own charts and relationships that we use for research.

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What are some suggestions for maintaining objectivity re: one's own chart and synastries?

posted July 09, 2009 04:36 PM         

There is a beautiful world out there once you leave the walls. I had already proved the working of Asteroids using the case of Norman Pogson. www.tamsoft.co.in/pogson.html

Out of the 20000 Asteroids and other KBOs, only 100 odd have the NAME FREQUENCY to create a subtle and valid effect on people. It is this Name Frequency that is important, not the object.
In one statistical research of about 100 noted film stars, 90% and above have an aspect involving 3 relevant Asteroids.
If I remove these 3 Asteroids and show these charts to an old school astrologer, their guess on possible professions where there might be success for the native will number more than 100.... add the asteroids and you can narrow it to 10 professions related to theatre, music and acting.

Anyway, it is best that each one use what best fits. I personally enjoy using Asteroids and Sabians to find every tale hidden in every chart, past lifelines and present... it is a wonderful privilege and radically helps the native to transform spiritually. There is a tremendously rewarding rush when the native writes to me on how that particular past lifeline was dreamt of many times, and it could be spotted in the chart, thanks to Asteroids, Sabian Symbols and Lexigrams.

posted July 09, 2009 07:43 PM         

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Originally posted by,Accoustic God

This really ties into the crux of why I like the old school over the new school. Thousands of years ago when astrology was coming into existence, the stars were tv. They didn't have the distractions that we have, so they had much more time to devote to theorizing, studying, and testing their astrological theories. For hundreds of years they lived without our distractions.

That's not to say that all modern astrology is bunk. Just that time testing favors traditional astrology.

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I agree to the fullest! I used to look into asteroids but never really gave them too much weight; though I am partial to asteroid Juno.

However, I find that there is a chart or asteroid out there that will validate what we want to believe and I think we have to be careful with that. I was once told by a professional astrologer (RIP), that we shouldn't even look into synastry charts until we have been in a relationship with the other person for at least a year otherwise we are prone to letting the synastry dictate our actions, which is bad if you ask me. I mean, a quick look at some basics like sun and moon are cool, but to delve into a synastry a week before your first date can cause problems if your vulnerable like that.

As of the past few months, I find myself only looking at the planets with Juno and Chiron and no other asteroids. I am like AG with the old school, I am also partial to the traditional rulers as well.

posted July 09, 2009 09:28 PM         

I'm with you 100% on the use of asteroids, as I said in my first reply.
Your countless studies posted on this forum should be enough to convince anyone of their validity.

Only if everyone had the same thorough and extensive knowledge of the roots of astrology, like you do (and I am not pointing at anyone, but myself here), then that would be my ideal.

Unfortunately sometimes we as people tend to either zoom in too close, and loose the overall picture, or zoom out too far, and loose all the complexity and richness of a picture.Finding that balance between the two is where progress lies, I believe.

I wanted to promote the idea of diversity, and freedom of choice - that T shouldn't feel bad or lost in all these asteroid-focused threads!
I was only speaking for myself, saying that I appreciate and value his contribution and ability to focus on and use the symbolic langauge of astrology in a certain way.

posted July 09, 2009 10:18 PM         

I have also used name asteroids when my daughter starts to date a new guy. As soon as she tells me she is dating someone, I check the name asteroid on her chart. I swear to you that the guy's name asteroid is sitting right on her North Node or Vertex....every time!

In the synastry chart with my guy, my Destinn conjuncts his name asteroid. My daughter's Destinn also conjuncts his name. His first name in my chart conjuncts his last name in his chart. When you look at the conjunction, it spells his full name. Yes, I guess you can say that at some point in my life I was to meet someone with that name, that it was just random. But the fact that when you overlay our charts, that his first and last name come together? Does that convince any of the non believers as to the validity of asteroids?

posted July 09, 2009 10:34 PM         

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There is a beautiful world out there once you leave the walls.

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posted July 09, 2009 11:18 PM         

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Does that convince any of the non believers as to the validity of asteroids?

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It would, if it applied to everybody!

My Eros is conjunct my Actor in my 4th house, quintile my Venus, and I've definitely slept with hot actors waaay more than the average girl. (Although non-asteroid astrology could account for this as well.) I'm still looking for an asteroid Skinny Bass Player who is Sweet as Pie Until He Gets Famous and Then He Turns Into A Druggie Who Calls You at 3am From Denmark to Tell You You Broke His Heart--I betcha it's conjunct my Karma.

posted July 10, 2009 12:53 AM         

I am generally reserved about asteroids and do prefer "the old school", but I am going to test this one out in the next year or two:

I have become interested in a guy who lives in another country. In addition to some other good aspects we have in synastry (and nodal DW), his country asteroid is in exact conjunction with my Juno (my country asteroid conjuncts his IC).

posted July 10, 2009 04:28 AM         

A simple quiz.

A man with unknown birth time, has Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus in Pisces [none conjunct]. Mars in Leo, Saturn and Jupiter weak conjunct in Capricorn. Uranus in Sag. Neptune and Pluto in Gemini, not conjunct.

In which area did he attain unparalleled greatness?

1) Acting
2) Film Production/Direction
3) Poetry
4) Sculpture
5) Painting
6) Crime
7) Freemasonry
8) Establishing Museums
9) Psychiatry
10) Establishing Humanitarian Missions

Now, let me tell, he also has HORUS exactly conj KARMA [by few minutes, it could be very precise as we dont know the birthtime.]
OSIRIS exact quincunx PALLAS
and ISIS exact opp Mercury.

Now what is your answer?