posted August 26, 2009 09:44 PM         

here is very interesting article about an astrologer's view that Eris is a higher octave of Venus. She points out Eris can seem related to Venus. I don't agree with her view about the higher octave, but I do agree with everything else.

Of course, what Eris seems to be about is that it's okay to disagree, but disgreement doesn't necessarily mean that one is right and the other is wrong. Of course, that's probably the biggest problem on our planet today.

She points out that Eris' True Node is in Taurus,and its perihelion is Libra.

the following is stuff about Eris in the article:

The deeper meaning of Eris is explored in some length in another article in this section, Eristically Speaking, and highlighted in the themes underpinning the proving of Mt Roineabhal Summit Rock essence which was undertaken at the time of Eris's discovery announcement. The essence chart featured Eris conjunct the IC. The issues with individual and cultural identity which featured in the proving resonate strongly with keywords for the planet identified by astrologers such as Roy MacKinnon, Zane Stein and Philip Sedgwick.

DIS-CORD (lit. "hearts apart") is not just about strife. Fundamentally, it's about dissimilar resonance, and relates to breaking the ties of conditioning – the customs, rules and laws that bind us societally and culturally as well as individually. It's about the challenge to think for ourselves and to REAL-ise our deeper "truer" natures (ie. our genius, which relates to the 5-series aspects – the 72° angular relationship – in astrology). It's about creating the dissonances in belief systems that shake them at their foundations and wake us up to the full extent of our being and our connection to the entirety of existence.

Breaking ties, customs, rules and laws that bind us societally, culturally and individually might seem to be superficially anti-Venusian, but look closer. Mostly such ties are imposed constraints rather than growing naturally out of fundamental inner sympathy and synergy. Externalised containing and coercive forces have more to do with Mars, Saturn and Pluto than Venus-Eris. They lack the necessary inner authority and autonomy.

Or our bindings can arise out of a sea of mutual projections which, although giving a temporary appearance of genuine complementarity, are in reality no such thing. Venus has nothing to do with the idealised and romanticised projections of positive aspects of shadow so often mistaken for "true" love and connection between individuals. Her domain is the force of attraction that ensures the projection returns to its owner for integration. Eris, in her Zen-style unleashing of destabilising chaos, is consequently deeply supportive of Venus's imperative, clarifying it, refining it, elevating it above the mires of projection and counter-projection, keeping it true and truthful. If this puts an altogether different perspective on the apple of your eye, then you've these energies to thank for upsetting that particular apple cart and bringing it all back home.

Discord, dissonance, differences of opinion, are not of themselves problematic. What creates the problem is the idea that "there can be only one" which is "right" (itself a projection of the individual's urge towards integration, unification, individuation, autonomy) and that there has to be a single collective consensus interpretation, so Eris and her chaotic mischief constantly undermine this perceived need for uniformity of outlook, the hegemony of the established order, and the tyranny and preciousness of ego identity along with it. She embodies cognitive dissonance, inviting us to go beyond superficial understanding to a deeper, more fundamental, more authentic level of reality which is essentially Venusian in its integrated, harmonious and fruitful nature.

In Greek mythology Eris is closely identified with Enyo, the goddess of war and consort/female counterpart/sister of Ares/Mars. (Homer doesn't even distinguish between them.) In both Greek and Roman myth, Venus/Aphrodite is also found frequently consorting with Mars/Ares, a more natural complement to her energies than his brother, her husband, the dour, ugly and humourless god of smithing, Vulcan/Hephaestos.
http://www.smeddum.net/astrology/venus-eris.htm

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”

posted August 27, 2009 01:53 PM         

the whole "you're right and I am wrong" thing and the need to consider other's viewpoints,opinions and not just our own.
Eris co-discoverer,Michael Brown pointed that out about mythological Eris and that it was the perfect name for the object whose discovery led to discord among astronomers about whether Pluto's planetary status. He gave the clue to Eris' meaning in Astrology.

also if you look at the Uranus discovery chart, Mercury was square Eris at the time. Venus was also aspecting the Eris Nodes.
It makes me wonder if astrologers were attributing some of Eris' stuff to Uranus.

also consider that the orbit of Eris is far more eccentric than Uranus. Uranus actually orbits on the ecliptic. Eris orbits well away from it. That shows that Eris is far more of nonconformist than Uranus. It is an outsider. As an outsider,it gets rejected and snubbed just like Eris in the myth. I think Eris even rules underdogs. It also seems to involve redefining. After all,the discovery of Eris with it led to the redefining of what a planet is which led to the demotion of Pluto and promotion of Ceres both as dwarf planets along with Eris. Ceres was finally Pluto's equal. Like Ceres,Pluto is now stripped of its planethood because it was one of many certain type of objects.

I think that to understand Eris, we have to look beyond Eris as being a troublemaker and strife.

The perihelion/aphelion of Eris and the perihelion/aphelion axis of Jupiter are in close opposition to each other.

Zane Stein wrote about how Eris might have to do with Dialectics

the following is from his site:

Recently, I had occasion to read something that showed me a very positive side to Eris. Astrologer John Halloran posted the following (reprinted with his permission) on alt.astrology.moderated:

Eris - Discord and the Dialectic Process
It appears that the philosopher Hegel saw the evolutionary stage that is beyond Pluto.

Hegel saw the dialectic between thesis and antithesis as a constructive process that leads to a higher synthesis.

There is a discussion of Hegel's ideas excerpted at:

www2.pfeiffer.edu/~lridener/courses/HEGEL.HTML

Quotes from this page:

"Dialectic is defined by Hegel as the power (or energy or force) of negativity."

"Dialectic is thus the transition of things, and of knowledge, from potentiality or abstraction to actuality and content, but in such a way that the arising of a fuller determination points beyond itself to a further determination. Every determination is both a result and a new beginning, concrete and abstract, for it occurs within a process of the becoming of a thing (or of knowledge), and hence is concrete relative to the origin of the process but abstract relative to the telos of the whole process. A thing becomes more and more fully developed through this successive dialectic of self-reconstruction."

So discord is part of a constant on-going dialectic process of maturation, of leaving behind one-sided viewpoints and partial truths. It shakes up the status quo and says that a more complete perspective is necessary.

Regards,

John Halloran
----------------------
Halloran Software
Windows Astrology Software - www.halloran.com/

The dialectic is a branch of logic in the art of reasoning and\or disputing. Through the use of it Socrates would lead his adversary to make clear his position on the subject, then, often with the introduction of an absolutely contrary theory, the discussion would end with an admission, on the other side, of an inaccuracy. It was employed to set one theory in opposition with another, and thus to develop a subject in a comprehensive manner. First an idea (a Thesis) was thrown up against another theory (an Antithesis); from this, it was thought, one would advance to a third stage, and the truth would emerge. Often, - though not necessarily - there would come about a combination of both the ideas (a synthesis). From this process, it is thought, one would arrive at the truth of a proposition; this is not to be confused with a negotiation process whereby, usually, a compromise is wrought out.

Henry Alphern wrote (in An Outline History of Philosophy):

"We must analyze everything into what it now is, then analysis will show that it contains its opposite, which in turn will have to be harmonized into something that includes them both. But the resultant synthesis will itself be subject again to a negative element, this then, will be resolved into a still more comprehensive synthesis, which will be subjected once more to the principle of contradiction. The final solution, the ultimate harmony, the last synthesis, the step when it will no longer be necessary to go higher, will constitute the Absolute. The Universe as a whole harmonizes all contradictions, it is the perfect whole, it is the synthesis which we are seeking as our final solution. It, therefore, constitutes the true, the rational, the goal of the dialectic method. The conclusion is that only the whole of reality is rational, because that furnishes a complete view of all things; it is the Absolute, the World, Reason, God."

Hesiod wrote that there were two different Eris goddesses. One of them, the daugher of Nyx (Night) stirred up healthy competiton. Think about the last good, stirring debate you watched. A discussion involving opposing viewpoints, first one side, then the other, at times perhaps getting quite heated. Didn't you come away mentally stimulated, perhaps with your own thoughts galvanized?

Competition comes from the Latin word competere, which means: to strive together, to coincide. The very basis of healthy competition is not to create enmity, but to strive together to come up with something better than existed previously. In a healthy competition, everyone benefits, no matter whoo wins.

President William McKinley was an indefatigable campaigner. He helped rebuild the Republican Party in 1896 by rejecting divisive ethnic issues and promoting pluralism--whereby every group in the nation would prosper and none would be singled out for attack. He once wrote:

"Without competition we would be clinging to the clumsy antiquated processes of farming and manufacture and the methods of business of long ago, and the twentieth would be no further advanced than the eighteenth century."

He was born on January 29, 1843, with Mercury approximately 27 Aquarius 18, closely conjunct Eris at 27 Aquarius 53.

Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey had a mind that quickly grasped complicated issues. He was instrumental in merging two opposing political parties (the Democratic and the Farmer-Labor party), and with their combined backing he was elected Mayor of Minneapolis. He gained a national reputation by his strong stand for civil rights. In fact, in one of the most renowned speeches in American political history, Humphrey told the 1948 Democratic National Convention: "To those who say, my friends, to those who say, that we are rushing this issue of civil rights, I say to them we are 172 years too late! To those who say, this civil rights program is an infringement on states' rights, I say this: the time has arrived in America for the Democratic Party to get out of the shadow of states' rights and walk forthrightly into the bright sunshine of human rights!" Humphrey and his allies succeeded; the pro-civil-rights plank was narrowly adopted. But not without causing strife! As a result of the Convention's vote, the Mississippi and one half of the Alabama delegation walked out of the hall. Many Southern Democrats were so enraged that they formed the "Dixiecrat" party and nominated their own presidential candidate.

He once wrote:

"Freedom is hammered out on the anvil of discussion, dissent, and debate."

Humphrey was born May 27, 1911. This gave him a Mars (25 Pisces 19) conjunct Eris (26 Pisces 39), both square Pluto (26 Gemini 53.)
http://www.zanestein.com/Trans-pluto.htm#UB313

I actually like Zane Stein and Philip MacKinnon's preliminary keywords for Eris the best.

Zane Stein's Eris preliminary keywords:
Loss of innocence, entrance into adulthood; child's trauma being separated from parent; acceptance of unavoidable changes; dying and being reborn (as opposed to Pluto which rules the causes/processes of death and rebirth); internal split causing longing to be whole, the longing of the soul for its other half; the subject/object of a debate, argument, competition, conflict or war...what stirs people to fight or disagree; fighting for one's rights; strife and discord; pitting one side against the other; competition, contests and tournaments; struggles for supremacy; rivalry; a test of skills or abilities; love of fighting or debate; what one has at stake in a competition, dispute or conflict, or one's perspective of what is being fought over; refusing to relinquish one's hold on an ideal, belief, cause, or object...'not budging an inch'; the problems resulting from irreconcilable differences; contrasting different perspectives; comparing thesis and antithesis in the search for truth; contrasting opposing viewpoints to reveal each side more clearly, to seek similarities as well as differences; contrasting logical thought processes to show the limitations of logic; identifying with, or trying to understand, first principles; incongruous juxtapositions to force one to think outside of the box; the ethics connected with one's motives and methods, and the coming to light of less than spotless methods; the roots of one's motivations; piracy, defrauding, swindling; society's ethics; race intent.

Roy MacKinnon's Eris preliminary keywords:
Striving to achieve one's goals and refusing to capitulate to the pressure of unjust treatment and discord from abusive authority : with great inner conviction and single-mindedness of purpose following a path of high attainment and enlightenment notwithstanding adversity - alternatively refusing the call to transform with mediocrity and underachievement as consequences: issues around power abuse of minorities, the defenseless, the alien: networks, multinational countries and companies, the world- wide web: piracy, terrorism, clash of ideologies: conflict between desires of personality and pursuit of the inner call: persecution of the spiritually aware person who stands alone courageously acting according to conscience: an outstanding individual ahead of the times.
http://zanestein.com/keywords.html#Eris

also one thing to consider about Eris is its orbit. Michael Brown compares to Persephone,Proserpina.

this is according to him:

Interestingly, there are no actual rules for how to name a planet (presumably because no one expected there to be more). All of the other planets are named for Greek or Roman gods, so an obvious suggestion is to attempt to find such a name for the new planet. Unfortunately, most of the Greek or Roman god names (particularly those associated with creation, which tend to be the major gods) were used back when the first asteroids were being discovered. If a name is already taken by an asteroid, the IAU would not allow that name to be used again. One such particularly apt name would have been Persephone. In Greek mythology Persephone is the (forcibly abducted) wife of Hades (Roman Pluto) who spends six months each year underground close to Hades. The new planet is on an orbit that could be described in similar terms; half of the time it is in the vicinity of Pluto and half of the time much further away. Sadly, the name Persephone was used in 1895 as a name for the 399th known asteroid. The perhaps more appropriate Roman version of the name, Proserpina, was used even earlier for the 26th known asteroid. The same story can be told for almost any other Greek or Roman god of any consequence. One exception to this name depletion is the Roman god Vulcan (Greek Haphaestus), the god of fire. Astronomers have long reserved that term, however, for a once hypothetical (now known to be nonexistent) planet closer to the sun than Mercury (god of fire, near the sun, good name). We would not want to use such a name to describe such a cold body as our new planet! http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/planetlila/

Look how Pluto and Ceres became equals in Astronomy as dwarf planets because of Eris' discovery. That is like Pluto/Hades and Ceres/Demeter in the myth in how they shared Proserpina/Persephone.

Some of Zane Stein's keywords are Persephone/Proserpina stuff based on Eris' orbit. The astronomical,orbital features of an object are taken into account when figuring out what an object means. Not just the name. A matter of fact, it was astrologers that came up with name,"Nessus" for the centaur. They considered the object's orbit, and they gave it an appropriate name for it. They did the same thing for other centaurs too. That's why astronomy is so important for astrologers to know. Knowledge of Astronomy by Astrologers can help bridge the gap between Astrology and Astronomy. Of course knowledge of Astrology by Astronomy would greatly help too. There are astronomers like Percy Seymour that are open to Astrology and are interested in bridging the gap.

Michael Brown even said that the circumstances of his naming Eris almost made him believe in Astrology! Heck...he might even be a secret believer in Astrology. You never know. After all, the head of the minor planet organization is open to astrologers suggesting names for centaurs.

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 27, 2009 02:35 PM         

I remember that thread in regards to people that like to argue and debate.

a lot of people seem to focus on Mars. Not one single person suggested Eris except for me.

however

check this out:

Eristic, from the ancient Greek word Eris meaning wrangle or strife, often refers to a type of dialogue or argument where the participants do not have any reasonable goal. The aim is to win the argument, not to potentially discover a true or probable answer to any specific question or topic. Eristic dialogue is arguing for the sake of conflict, fighting, and seeing who can yell the loudest.

Philosophical Eristic

Plato often contrasted this type of dialogue with the dialectical method and other more reasonable and logical methods (e.g., at Republic 454a). In the dialogue Euthydemus, Plato satirizes eristic.

Different from Plato, Schopenhauer considers that only logic pursues truth. For him, dialectic, sophistry and eristic have no objective truth in view, but only the appearance of it, and pay no regard to truth itself because it aims at victory. He names these three last methods as "eristic dialectic"[1]

According to Schopenhauer, Eristic Dialectic is mainly concerned to tabulate and analyze dishonest stratagems[2], in order that in a real debate they may be at once recognized and defeated. It is for this very reason that Eristic Dialectic must admittedly take victory, and not objective truth, for its aim and purpose.

Argumentation theory

Argumentation theory is a field of study that asks critical questions about eristic arguments and the other types of dialogue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eristic

Noun 1. eristic - a person who disputes; who is good at or enjoys controversy
controversialist, disputant
individual, mortal, person, somebody, someone, soul - a human being; "there was too much for one person to do"
contester - someone who contests an outcome (of a race or an election etc.)
accuser - someone who imputes guilt or blame
arguer, debater - someone who engages in debate
denier - one who denies
hairsplitter - a disputant who makes unreasonably fine distinctions
logomach, logomachist - someone given to disputes over words
obstructer, obstructionist, obstructor, resister, thwarter - someone who systematically obstructs some action that others want to take
quarreler, quarreller - a disputant who quarrels
crusader, meliorist, reformer, reformist, social reformer - a disputant who advocates reform
2. eristic - the art of logical disputation (especially if specious)
artistry, prowess, art - a superior skill that you can learn by study and practice and observation; "the art of conversation"; "it's quite an art"
Adj. 1. eristic - given to disputation for its own sake and often employing specious arguments
eristical
argumentative - given to or characterized by argument; "an argumentative discourse"; "argumentative to the point of being cantankerous"; "an intelligent but argumentative child" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/eristic

I guess my strong interest in Eris is connected to not only my Eris sextile Midheaven with 1'01 orb but also my Sun conjunct heliocentric South Eris Node in Scorpio with 10 minutes of arc (Earth conjunct North Eris Node in Taurus with 10 minutes in heliocentric chart). I also have Mercury biquintile Eris with 6 minutes of arc,and I think that indicates my ability to think outside the box. I even have Mercury square Eris with 1'15 orb in declination longitude equivalent chart.

any ways...Eris has been discovered in 2005,and it was named in 2006. Few astrologers even use it. Nobody here even mentions Eris and puts it in charts in this forum. This object is larger than Pluto,and it orbits much slower and beyond Pluto. It seems that the object is getting snubbed just like the mythological Eris at the wedding of Peleus and Thetis. Of course,Eris was also snubbed by astronomers. After all, Eris didn't get to be classed as a planet like Pluto and Ceres did before they got stripped of their planethood for both of them being one of many objects of a certain type with Pluto as a kuiper belt object and Ceres as an asteroid. Even though Eris is 30 percent larger than Pluto, Eris is taking a back seat to Pluto as part of a Pluto prototype class. Eris,Pluto,Makemake,and Haumea are classed as Plutoids. They are not classed as Erisoids. Therefore, Eris gets dissed again. Maybe that's another word for Eris. Dissed as well as snubbed.

Michael Brown definitely gave a suitable name for the object and gave a strong hint to what Eris means in Astrology. He also explained its Persephone/Proserpina-like orbit, and so that's another hint to what Eris is about. The discovery chart of Eris also gives a good meaning. It's no coincidence that there is a tight Mercury-Venus-Pluto stellium in Sagittarius in the 9th in the discovery chart with Moon in Scorpio in 7th and Aries/Libra Descendant axis. Heck...the Mercury-Venus-Pluto in 9th fits the strong opinions about Pluto being a planet which border on the religious.

I just wish that the astrological community would be a lot more enthusiastic about going beyond Pluto and consider Eris' own strong astrological influences which are equal to and could even be greater than Pluto's. Astrology is about change and progression. That's why Uranus rules Astrology. However,I think Eris rules 21st Century Astrology with its challenging challenging the status quo,the diversity,and questioning the old way of things that lead to a new definition. Also the controversy when these things aren't tolerated by certain people that want things to stay as they are that includes people calling the people "troublemakers" or even "trolls" for daring to have viewpoints that counter the longtime traditional viewpoints of the mainstream. We have to keep in mind that Aquarius is the sign associated with Astrology, and it's a fixed air sign which means that it can be fixed on ideas,thoughts,and communication. It is co-ruled by Saturn a planet that is known for its conservativism,rigidity,wanting things to stay as they are because it's familiar and safe. I already mentioned the co-ruling of Uranus in regards to change and progression. Of course,innovation too with so many astrologers coming up with new astrological methods and systems.

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

posted August 27, 2009 03:08 PM         

therefore, Eris is more generational than Pluto with it being slower.

Therefore, it makes sense to use narrower orbs for Eris in synastry.

I think that 30 minutes of arc is reasonable. I thought of just using 30 minutes of arc for Pluto and 15 to 20 minutes of arc for Eris.
I am changing my mind.

the other transneptunian dwarf planets, Makemake (309 yrs) and Haumea (285 yrs) could use an orb of 45 to 50 minutes of arc.

also if Sedna is used in synastry, its orbs have to be very narrow.
It's orbit is over 10,000 years

its WAYYYY more generational than Eris.

Using no more than 5 minutes of arc seems reasonable.

the named transneptunian dwarf planet candidates besides Sedna are Orcus,Quaoar,Varuna,Ixion

Orcus and Ixion are plutinos like Pluto. Their orbits are only a year apart from Pluto's. It makes sense to use the same orb for them like Pluto.

Quaoar and Varuna orbit beyond Pluto. Therefore, it makes sense to use narrower orbs for them.

a transneptunian like Pluto is used in synastry,and it is said to have significant influences in synastry. After all, we thought it was the most outer of the outerplanets and that it was all alone in the outer regions of the solar system.

but

now we know that Pluto is not alone in the outer regions of the solar system and that many objects orbit beyond Pluto. Over a thousand objects in our solar system have been discovered.
It makes sense to consider that the other transneptunians can also be just as profound in synastry...especially the ones that I already mentioned.

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.