posted October 05, 2009 03:04 PM         

That's why I believe that it is very important for astrologers to keep up to date with the lastest astronomical discoveries. Astronomers are constantly discovering transnepunian objects. They started finding big transneptunians in 2000. Over 1,000 transneptunians have been discovered.

Makemake is a transneptunian dwarf planet and classical kuiper belt object aka cubewano. 1992 QB1 was the 2nd transneptunian discovered,and it was the first classical kuiper belt object/cubewano to be discovered.

It's the 3rd largest dwarf planet after Eris (the largest) and Pluto (the 2nd largest) with its diamater 3/4 the size of Pluto

It has an orbit of 308 years,and so its orbit is longer than Pluto's 248 years.

Its aphelion is 53 astronomical units,and its perihelion is 38.5 astronomical units,and so it is more distant than Pluto whose aphelion is 49.3 astronomical units and perihelion is 29.6 astronomical units.

It's named after the Rapanui creation/fertility god that was worshiped on Easter Island.

It was discovered on March 31, 2005. It was announced to the public on July 29, 2005.
In July 2008, it was named. On June 11, 2008, the astronomers came up with a subclass dwarf planet called Plutoid. This was classification had to do with all transneptunian dwarf planets. Therefore, Eris,Pluto,Makemake,and Haumea are plutoids.

It has no satellites like Eris,Pluto,and Haumea do.

Makemake was only 2 degrees off the ecliptic when Pluto was discovered in 1930.

It's current latitude is 28'22 degrees North,and so very far away from the ecliptic that it's not in any of the zodiac constellations.

The astronomy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makemake_%28dwarf_planet%29

the mythology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makemake_%28mythology%29

keywords from Philip Sedgwick:

Orbital Period 309.00 yr., 2nd brightest KBO (Pluto #1), 1,250 km diameter? From Rapa Nui. Pronounced maki-maki.

Positive: Articulate and ultra-communicative. Self-assuredness, especially by verbal means. Clever, quick-witted and interested in invoking insight and inspiration with speech. Quick to report findings, regardless of impact. Courageous, possessing the willfulness to confront the peril required for discovery or spiritual evolution. Conscious of family security and safety. Protection of the brood.

Negative: Cunning and verbally manipulative. Double talk. Diversion of facts. Declaring false findings (laying an egg, so to speak). Taking flight to avoid consequence. Hiding as a coping skill. Reckless. Disregard for safety of the home. Self-serving.

Mundane: Data collection to support a doctrine or cause. Books, especially those of multi-cultural interest. Translation especially with a cross-cultural theme. Cultural synthesis. Integration of tasks. Computer iterations and/or algorithms. Dissemination of information whether true or false. Split second decisions. Lightning fast assessment. Fertility and fertility procedures. Birds. Fans. Eggs. Creeds. Documents of self declaration - affirmation statements, bios or autobiographies, a feather in one’s cap, selecting a safe location for nesting.

Ceremonial: Incantations. Oral remedies for healing. Meditations to unify the minds of several. Isolation for ceremonial purposes. Shamanic retreat. Cave ceremonies. Ceremonies involving hair cutting. Personal acceptance of one’s cause and karma. Ceremonies involving the use of feathers or eggs (feather fans, Eagle feather cleansing, the egg diagnostics of curanderos and curanderas - common in Ecuador, one of Rapa Nui’s neighbors).
http://www.philipsedgwick.com/

as you see,
Makemake is a transneptunian that orbits beyond Pluto, has a longer orbit
Therefore, it's more metaphysically oriented than Pluto.
It could be intense,transformational in its effects than Pluto.
The evolutionary intensified lessons/experience from Makemake can be more profound.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 05, 2009 03:24 PM         

free will is the ultimate factor any way

you can choose to have the positive traits of Makemake which according to Philip Sedgwick:

Positive: Articulate and ultra-communicative. Self-assuredness, especially by verbal means. Clever, quick-witted and interested in invoking insight and inspiration with speech. Quick to report findings, regardless of impact. Courageous, possessing the willfulness to confront the peril required for discovery or spiritual evolution. Conscious of family security and safety. Protection of the brood.

instead of the negative traits of Makemake which according to Philip Sedgwick are:

Negative: Cunning and verbally manipulative. Double talk. Diversion of facts. Declaring false findings (laying an egg, so to speak). Taking flight to avoid consequence. Hiding as a coping skill. Reckless. Disregard for safety of the home. Self-serving.

there are both positive and negative traits for every object.

what orbs are you using for Makemake?
no more than 3 degree orbs

also
strong aspects to Makemake can easily explain why you identify with wide Pluto aspects.

Makemake is a transneptunian dwarf planet like Pluto. It makes sense that aspects involving Makemake could easily account for wide orbed Pluto aspects.

This is one of the reasons why I believe that it's important for astrologers to be up to date with astronomical discoveries because they keep finding transneptunian objects.

Pluto has many neighbors. It's not alone in the outer regions of the solar system like we used to think. That was proven false with the 1992 discovery of 1992 QB1.
Our astrological thinking has to be adjusted to these discoveries.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 05, 2009 07:48 PM         

we must have some charts in order to study.

glacus has ted bunty´s right?

posted October 05, 2009 07:58 PM         

that seems mainly communications,mental processes,thinking in conflict with assertion,passion

an aggressive communicator,debater,thinker

Makemake is metaphysically oriented object
evolutionary intensified object

136472 is its minor planet number. You enter that number and you will be able to calculate it

I also want to point that
you can go to this site to calculate it too
http://www.true-node.com/pos/

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 06, 2009 07:03 PM         

Maybe that's due to my psycho aspects :
Scorpio Mercury
Moon square Uranus
Grand trine that includes Chiron (Chiron opp my Asc)
Strong Nep
Pluto on my Sun/Moon mp

If what distinguishes other people from psychopaths is a capacity for love, I'm doubtful that can be seen in a chart. The chart may provide energies that help people be a "successful" psychopath, like the ability to understand people's deepest psychology. It may also provide energies that make people feel like an outsider. But without an accompanying inability to love, those energies won't produce a psychopath.

Do some charts provide such non-personal energies (Uranus, Neptune, and beyond), that the chart owners don't ever feel human, leaving them incapable of identifying with the human experience and all its emotions? For that to be the cause, that would require love not being a part of the outer universe. That it's just part of the human experience. But psychos can feel other emotions (rage, pride), so are we to believe that those emotions are more basic to the universe than love is?

posted October 06, 2009 07:05 PM         

I agree.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 07, 2009 12:06 PM         

actually Varuna is a transplutonian because it's a classical kuiper belt object aka cubewano (based on 1992 QB1,the second transneptunian discovered after Pluto). All cubewanos have no orbital resonance with Neptune. They all orbit beyond the plutinos (Pluto is a plutino) which are objects that have 3:2 orbital resonance with Neptune. That means that every 3 times Neptune orbits the Sun,Pluto orbits twice.

20000 Varuna is a Kuiper Belt asteroid(orbiting beyond the orbit of Neptune), with a period of 284 years, 315 days. It was discovered at 10 Cancer 29 on 28 November 2000 at 9:51 a.m. MST at Kitt Peak Observatory near Sells, AZ by Robert S. McMillan, who named it for the Hindu god of the waters, who preceded the storm-god Indra as king of the gods. Once, Varuna ruled the sky as well, but after a great war between the Vedic gods and demons, the gods decided that each should be assigned a clearly defined sphere of influence to avoid future conflicts. Varuna got the waters of the earth to rule and Indra got the sky. Varuna sits with his wife Varuni on a throne of diamonds and the deities of the rivers, lakes, and springs of the world form his court. Varuna is the custodian of the various demons of the ocean. He is also associated with clouds and rain, and is credited with sustaining life by virtue of giving rain and crops. Varuna is often shown as a fair-skinned man who rides either a crocodile, or a monstrous fish named Makara which has an antelope's head and legs, or a chariot drawn by seven swans; he holds a serpent, a noose, a conch shell and a vessel of gems in each of his four hands. The noose is in one of his right hands. He is sometimes described as having a thousand eyes with which he oversees the whole world, or as encompassing the entire world. Varuna means "he who covers" in Sanskrit.

Varuna, Vedic god of the waters.

Keywords for asteroid Varuna, to me, include judgment, judgmentalism, inquisition, moralizing, justice, hugeness, grandness, grandiosity, bombast, pompousness, egotism, immortality, global, unforgettable, apocalyptic visions.

Aaron Spelling, prolific and highly influential TV producer who grew up in a house on Dallas' south side which was and is little more than a shack, had one of the largest houses in California and whose autobiography is titled A Prime-Time Life, often deals with sometimes unpleasant issues or tries to teach lessons in an entertaining way through his shows. He has Varuna conjunct Venus(art, beauty, money), the South Node(past experiences), and Heracles(striving to overcome); semisextile Black Moon(wildness, unpredictability); nonile the Sun(to shine); sextile Pallas(mental perception and creativity) and Don Quixote(unsuccessful attempts); quintile Mars(taking action, violence); square Juno(marriage), Pholus(ceremony or the lack of it, following one's bliss), and the Vertex(significant or idealized relationships); biquintile Neptune(motion pictures); quincunx the Part of Fortune(development); and contraparallel the Moon(the public).

Oprah Winfrey, who tries to use her show for the betterment of society, has Varuna semisquare Vesta; nonile Jupiter; squile Don Quixote; square the Sun, Venus, Pholus and Damocles(to be provocative, to challenge); biseptile Chiron; tredecile Pluto(to transform, to be powerful); trine Pallas, Chariklo(glamor) and the East Point(one's public image); biquintile the Moon(the public, women); opposite Saturn and Lilith(the marginalized, things hard to accept).

Anita Bryant, who's much more of a narrow, judgmental type, has Varuna conjunct Jupiter(religion), the South Node, and Hylonome(popular sentiment); semisextile Mercury(the media, thoughts); undecimal Venus(singing) and Uranus(going against the grain); square Chiron, Pholus(need to follow protocol) and Pandora(being surprised, making an impact); trine the East Point; quincunx Chariklo; and opposite North Node(applying past experiences to real life).

Designer Giorgio Armani has Varuna conjunct Hylonome and Lilith("not the right kind"), sextile Chiron, sextile/trine the North and South Nodes, square the Moon, the Vertex, and Pholus; trine Chariklo and the Part of Fortune, quincunx Neptune, opposite Jupiter and Vesta, and contraparallel Uranus.

Prince Andrew, who was born into one of the most prominent of the world's remaining royal families, Britain's House of Windsor, served as a military officer and is married to a woman who used to head a London public-relations firm, has Varuna sextile Mercury and Don Quixote; square Uranus, Damocles, Heracles and Lilith; tredecile Mars(the military); trine Saturn(conservatism, government, the Establishment) and Pallas; sesquiquadrate Jupiter(prosperity); and biquintile Juno.
http://markandrewholmes.com/varuna.html

Varuna:Varuna was the old Hindu God of the Waters and once ruled as king of all the gods. He is guardian of the oceanic demons and generates the clouds and rain, therefore is a sustainer of life. Varuna dispenses ultimate justice and keeps the cosmic order. As placed in a natal horoscope chart his energy can be misused as dogmatism even as applied to science; also extreme conservatism in religeous movements and messianic leaders who dispense divine Rules and Regs. He is a patron of fundamentalism and of decrees that must be obeyed because they "come from God". Someone with a strong Varuna can have a charismatic aura of unquestionable authority or righteousness. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney serve well as western symbols for Varuna's brand of power. http://www.mysticmarguerite.com/WebDocs/Texts/Asteroids.html

notes on Varuna http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/posts/notes/varuna.html

Raymond
Varuna in 3'01 Gemini R in 10th
conjunct Saturn in 5'08 Gemini R in 10th
oppose Neptune in 1'58 Sagittarius in 4th
square Moon in 3'11 Pisces in 7th
(T-Square)
trine Pluto in 0'51 Libra in 2nd

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 07, 2009 01:32 PM         

it's from

Philip Sedgwick's
THE SOUL OF THE SKY

Orbital Period: 284.65 y
Daily Rotation: 6.34 d
Distance at Perihelion (AU): 40.979 Perihelion: 12'30 Aries
Distance at Aphelion (AU): 45.565
North Node: 7'17 Cancer
Size (km): 900 +/- 140
Date of Discovery: 11/19/2000
Semi-Major Axis: 43.272 AU Eccentricity: 0.053
Inclination: 17.1º

Varuna came to the attention of astronomers on November 28, 2000, initially known as Kuiper Belt Object (KBO) 2000WR106. Once its
orbital parameters were refined, it was given the Minor Planet Number 20000. This numbering process occurred fairly quickly given the object’s low eccentricity. Then, on March 6, 2000, the minor planet received its name - one of the first Vedic namesakes applied!

Varuna means “he who covers,” most likely an association with his once held rulership of the heavens. At one point Varuna maintained a top deity ranking. Not only did he direct the heavens, he managed the waters, regulated day and night, oversaw the flight of birds, took care of the motions of the Sun and Moon and served as honored guest at all ceremonies. A master healer, he applied healing, cosmic waters, much akin to Aquarius, for the good of people. This flow also symbolized the natural internal movement of kundalini energy.
Varuna was motivated to relieve karma, absolve the pain of wrongdoing, and guide people on their way. This would be done with proper choices, forthright activity and clear vision.
He could remove sin, pain, debt and injury, if only one offered proper propitiation.
So, what went wrong? Given than Varuna was a god of illusion (maya) he was inclined to the use of soma. This hallucinogen perhaps granted visions and insights, but it
angered other deity. After a time, he was reduced in authority to keeper of the waters, his profound responsibilities being largely replaced by Shiva and Vishnu. Much of his subsequent work went to assist drowning souls.

Varuna, being a slower moving body, as will be the case with all the Trans-Neptunian bodies,operates as a generational influence. Should an individual hold personal natal contacts (critical angles, Sun, Moon, Mercury through Mars) in precise relations with Varuna, then a specialized
soul mission evolves within Varuna’s themes.
One might suspect that working with the planetary waters or heavenly waters (the atmosphere) would become natural concerns. A consciousness of fighting pollution and the will to take on adversaries who disrespect water, sky and Earth could be a huge life theme. Personal contacts with Varuna suggest an additional urge to work to spread consciousness, a sense of collective
cooperation (and an understanding of how all thoughts and actions affect every other thought and actions).

Given that many people currently complain about drowning in the emotional tides prevailing upon the planet, Varuna takes charge in the nick of time. On the most personal level, his attentions refer to the node and perihelion point. This comes from the blending of Cancer (North node) and Aries (perihelion). Such a combination reflects the urge for self-nurturing at the most fundamental level. One must make personal care the utmost priority. Feeding the self on all levels of real world reality (food, drink, feeling, love) supports the spirit in self-realization to the extent that it may assert itself into the flow of the cosmic waters. Participation on the planet becomes an important task, but follows proper personal sustenance.

This reminds me of a conversation I heard in a bathroom in San Francisco years ago. One man said to another, “First you work on yourself, then you work on the world. When you get tired,you pull back and take care of yourself again. Then, you have more to give back to the planet again.” Truer words were probably never spoken. There’s nothing more frustrated than a healer with no more gas to give.

Transits to natal Varuna would imply an awareness of what must be done on the planet. Whether a person simply e-mails suggestions to powers that be or actually gets involved depends upon the aspects involving the natal planets to Varuna.
Transits from Varuna will last a good while (even longer than Pluto). Some assessment as to the quality of life one lives naturally would appear. Are you doing things in a good, strong,purposeful manner? Or should you start conjuring images in your mind as to what might happen to your soul if there is to be a judgment day?

Regardless, of your conclusion, Varuna encourages you to participate within the needs of your spirit, your planet and your sky, while you walk upon the planet.
Given his emphasis on all things working as they should, the timing could not better. Regardless of the astronomical/astrological arguments for Varuna’s application, he renders hope, method and healing in a most difficult global state. He seeks to inspire those who listen. We already have our headsets on our heads.

For what it’s worth, in the “no conclusion yet to make” category, during the terrorists attacks of September 11, 2001, Varuna stood in virtual conjunction with the Sun in the horoscope of the United States

Positive - sovereign, competent, regulating without force, mastery of all tasks accepted

Negative - incompetent and blaming, lamentation of life’s losses, holds resentment

Mundane - appointments or elected positions, delegation of authority, promotions, demotions,court martial, public humiliation

Ceremonial - ceremonies to confirm positions, spiritual coronations, “induced” journeys as in shamanically led vision quests

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 08, 2009 12:50 AM         

He is a either a pathological liar, or a compuslive liar, not sure which as yet...he has had numerous opportunities to work it out with mental health professionals, but lies his way through every appointment. He thinks only of himself. If he thinks of others, his only thoughts are of tricking them into believing SOMETHING. Whatever crap he's selling that day, for the sake of getting what he wants that day.
You cannot put any expectations on him, for he will disappoint you, resentfully. And then he will lie to cover it up. And then when you bust him because you got the real story from someone else, he will get hostile and say your source is a liar who is out to get him. If he's lieing about you and you confront him in front of those he lied to, he will get hostile and accuse them of making it up. He will look them straight in the eye with a well practiced look of disappointment and say in front of everyone "Why are you lieing about this? You know you're lieing"....WHEN HE IS THE ONE WHO IS LIEING!!!!
When he knows he's been figured out....he leaves. He dumps you if you're his girlfriend. If you're his parent or guardian, he accuses you of being a horrible person so you're making him leave. If you're a freind, you turned out to be untrustworthy. As soon as anyone figures him out, he accuses, yells, gets indignant, and at the end of all the belittling, he leaves you....before you can leave him.

I'm quite sure he is certifiably narcissistic, or sociapathic.

posted October 08, 2009 08:19 AM         

Scrappy do you study pshicology?you seem to know a lot about psycho´s...

Lioneyse

well he has a bunch of planets in his 1st.for itself it shows his most important focus is on himself.

Jup and pluto are very hardly aspected...mostly squares...and look pluto cj NN.in scorp!very intense,powerful,deep energies attacthed onto his path.

where is his nessus?

posted October 08, 2009 09:45 PM         

What's jumping out to me is his Mercury - Chiron opposition. Mercury is in Pisces, Chiron in Virgo. Virgo could be a rough place for stashing your wounds - the lighting can be harsh to the point that it's unmerciful. Sounds like he's tempted to hide out in Pisces, where things are more fuzzy and nice. So I think he lies in order to avoid facing his Chiron. The opposition puts a lot of pressure on his Mercury. He could feel like he has to control the stories (Mercury cnj Saturn, which is his chart ruler), even when he's controlling with lies, because once he lets go he's going to be hurled onto that Chiron.

posted October 08, 2009 09:49 PM         

even in heliocentric chart, he would have Earth in Leo square the Mercury Nodes and Mars nodes with the same orb

this can indicate conflict with collective communications and collective passion

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 09, 2009 12:34 AM         

but there are also differences

his aspect involves a square

yours involve conjunction to a node

the square is more challenging

his square involves the Sun which is the most important planet in the chart. It's the ego,vitality,the ego and self expression

in the heliocentric chart, it involves the Earth which is the most important planet in the chart.

Earth's position in the heliocentric chart is always exactly opposite of the Sun's position in the geocentric chart.

That's why I said that he has Earth square the Mercury,Mars Nodes with the same orb as his Sun square the Mercury,Mars Nodes.

You do have Mercury-Chiron opposition, but it's only the Mercury in 17'10 Scorpio conjunct the heliocentric South Mercury Node in 18'05 Scorpio and South Mars Node in 19'24 Scorpio. Your Chiron in 16'56 Taurus is only conjunct your North Mercury Node in 18'05 Taurus within 2 degree orb.

Your Heliocentric Mercury is in 16'21 Aquarius is square only the heliocentric Mercury Nodes within 2 degree orb.

in his case, both his Sun and Earth in the respective geocentric and heliocentric squares both the Mercury Nodes and Mars Nodes within 2 degree orb.

his Venus is conjunct the heliocentric South Sedna Node, and that could indicate love,relationships,values in connected to collective karma involving victimization,abuse,betrayal. It could indicate the potential to victimize others but also act like the victim himself.

if he uses the energy right,he can be a compassionate,spiritual person that could be involved with caring about others and and the environment.

that's up to him and his free will.

jane made good points about his Mercury-Saturn conjunction in Pisces.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"