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Author
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Topic: what factors in a natal chart indicate a suicide?
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Diana
Knowflake Posts: 994
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 04:24 PM
 
Oh, she has pluto square pluto. I knew she would. It's probably the worst transit, because everything falls apart. If someone isn't strong enough, they may become suicidal. She'll have it for awhile, but it's really close right now.
T. Uranus on her AC is not helping either. Pretty soon it will be opposite her n.pluto.
Once t.neptune hits her mars it could get really dangerous, emotionally for her. In addition, all those transiting planets in her 12th are confusing. You have to convince her to get professional help if she's suicidal.
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scrappydog
Knowflake Posts: 291
From: Texas
Registered: May 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 04:30 PM
the first breath, I read that also and felt that it was very true. Suicide is very misunderstood by the average person I think. Sue Thomson also mentions that view in her aspects book under sun pluto aspects. "The urge to commit suicide is often a powerful, hasty need for transformation". I have sun conj pluto almost exact.
Also I wanted to mention that both times I took massive overdoses of drugs(neptune), which further convinces me that the view on neptune in the 8th is true.IP: Logged |
popcorn
Knowflake Posts: 492
From:
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 04:50 PM
Rajin? Why do you want to check her chart out? Do you think you help her to doing that?Her solar arc and her chart don't say what kind of choice she take in her life. Every indivdual have a responsible to live there life. Individual who are suicidal are not healthy and need a contact to a doctor. That's not astrology in any way..
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rajin
Knowflake Posts: 116
From:
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 04:59 PM
I did realize that the chart looks like 2010 may be a heavy year emotionally for her. I was looking at her SR chart to see the positives in her chart to reassure her. She has a badly broken heart, I was hoping that her SR for 2010 shows a new love or the return of her old love who is committed to her whole heartedly.IP: Logged |
Diana
Knowflake Posts: 994
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 05:11 PM
so any time a relationship doesn't work out she'll become suicidal? She needs help so that won't happen. This isn't a fairytale world. No love will be perfect and fix her.IP: Logged |
popcorn
Knowflake Posts: 492
From:
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 05:16 PM
Ok. It looks like more as deep-felt grief. I hope you feel your friend good so you know what she do and what she are capebel to do. If she need a doctor or not.Love grief can get people to do things they don't normal do. It can also take time to get it over. A normal process can be up to two year. That's an normal psycological process. It can also go faster. I think everyone get througt this. The only way are to take one day in time. It will always be better as longer time go. Make work in some way are good.
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rajin
Knowflake Posts: 116
From:
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 05:19 PM
Hi Pire,
what you said struck a chord. she is actually in research that is aimed at finding cures. But I guess she is feeling the acute need for a person to call her own, to love her like she loves him. work helps but I guess only to a certain extent. there is nothing that can replace the warmth of another human being.
Does her Sr have positive aspects for love? After all everything is in balance for her squares she has conjunctions and trines.IP: Logged |
popcorn
Knowflake Posts: 492
From:
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 05:37 PM
I don't think you know what kind of psycological process your friend being in. It's not just to take a new love . That's not good to be desperate.I think your friend should put love on the shelf and think. Take time to keep to one self are never wrong. No chart show a new love. That's not a prediction. You can never know. You always do your own choice. New love comes when it comes. IP: Logged |
pire
Knowflake Posts: 1008
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 06:01 PM
i get the idea, but popcorn is right, i would put love on the shelf; in this state, she would not find a fulfilling relationship; relationship based on despair are just that, they are different from relationships based on love. now i get the need to feel the love; and i think a dog can be brilliant. dogs live from 5 to 15 years, different sizes, different types and each dog has his own personality, beyond the character of the type of dog. the needs are different for different races, for ex i know dalmatians need to run an hour everyday. some are cool with other dogs or kids and others need careful handling. the great dane can measure up to 1 meter high, massive! and apparently a lovely dog. and remember each dog has his own personnality, so they are a source of wonder everyday. and once their character has been figured out, all that is left is an amazing member of a totally different specie full of love. but to get there, your friend would have to spend time training the dog, and may be herself. cause like diamonds, dogs give their best when they have been worked at. shall i mention that i want one?  i'm off to bed IP: Logged |
Lehia2
Knowflake Posts: 27
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 06:05 PM
Scrappydog, I don't know much about astrology but I think you might be on to something. I also have Neptune in the 8th house and Sun opp. Neptune.Astra and popcorn, thanks for those words, it was nice reading them. Rajin I agree with everybody else when they say that (if you and your friend's family are right), she needs to get help. I once read (probably here) that astrology is the "potential" of one person and then they decide what they do with it.
Lots and lots of love from people she loves will probably help a great deal. I do hope your friend gets better.
(Sorry if something sounds off but English not my first language). IP: Logged |
the_first_breath
Knowflake Posts: 12
From:
Registered: Nov 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 06:55 PM
Hi, mir, I like your comment, quote:
I hate society for letting people suffer, for letting them use atrocious methods to kill themselves, I hate society for forcing people to live - it's not me to judge when time is there!
All you can do is listen, trying to understand and take the deathwish & PERSON, VERY seriously; without even a hint that It'S BaD tO KiLl YoUrSeLf aagghh (please be human).
and, scrappydog, quote:
Suicide is very misunderstood by the average person I think.
I think so too, terribly. I think a very important thing is an urge or compulsion toward suicide needs to be understood in the context of the individual. The average view on the topic of suicide seems to be a very generic, and thus additionally chastising and derogatory, stigmatizing. It seems that is the general reaction people have to the idea of a person who is suicidal. A reaction of that kind is a hasty, and very shallow, lack of consideration for the personal reality of the individual. Ironically, so are most suicides [edit]. I really think it's an issue that people who are not especially strong one-on-one heart-to-heart communicators need to stay out of or very much temper themselves and their words about when they encounter it. In cases where the suicidal person is serious, I think it will almost always be a combination of the heart-to-heart and the intervention of professional help that will do the trick in saving and re-establishing the person in their life. It is not some stage for people to try to show-off whatever vanity they have invested in some idea of humanitarian empathy, which can come across as condescending insincerity, and, wow, what a time for that kind of disrespect. quote:
Sue Thomson also mentions that view in her aspects book under sun pluto aspects. "The urge to commit suicide is often a powerful, hasty need for transformation". I have sun conj pluto almost exact.
I think it is of utmost importance in life for a person to be aware of who they are and what they need as an individual, and to learn as quickly as possible what the most effective methods for obtaining and maintaining that awareness are for them. Without that, the size, complexity, and intensity of some necessary changes in the course of life can seem overwhelmingly impossible when encountered. I am sure that it is true that most people who have committed suicide killed themselves based on what they thought was impossible, and not based on what actually was impossible. quote:
Also I wanted to mention that both times I took massive overdoses of drugs(neptune), which further convinces me that the view on neptune in the 8th is true.
I think you might really have something there, scrappydog. With Neptune transiting the 8th I would also look for close-knit associations between two or more people who are simultaneously struggling with suicidal urges, with the possibility that one or more of them is not conscious of their urge and projects it onto the other(s) while trying to assume a helper-role, or with the people frequently exchanging the roles in an effort to cope. An interpersonal search for solid-ground in the form of a recovery of the instinct to survive and of a sense of having a place in the world (2nd and 8th); a reason to live. IP: Logged |
rajin
Knowflake Posts: 116
From:
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 08:35 PM
Diana,
It is not that she is living in a fairy tale world.she is a Scorpio, she is passionate and her feelings are very honest and intense. It is a love which you are not able to get over easily, something which makes you feel that your heart has been ripped out and left bleeding. She said that there was no logic for her love.
I have seen her go through tough times and come out stronger, what worries me is this time she does not even want to make the effort, it's like she has lost all hope and desire.
Pl. be considerate of her feelings. I am writing because she has been good to me and I would like to help her in every possible way. Any positive thing is a straw to clutch at.IP: Logged |
Diana
Knowflake Posts: 994
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 09:34 PM
I understand that completely. It's hard, but another love will just be a band-aid. If she is suicidal over this, it's more than just love problems, imo.IP: Logged |
rajin
Knowflake Posts: 116
From:
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 09:50 PM
Thanks Diana,
This guy broke up with her about 5 years back, at that point she did not lose hope, she kept saying that she felt it was not over between them and he would return. He did, last year. She was over the moon, he told her that at that point he had not been ready to make a committment but now he realized that he could do it and wanted a second chance. He had been having job issues with a lot of politics at work. She wanted him to share his problems with her, but he kept shutting her out and she finally decided she could not take it any more.
He is a Libra,an uncommunicative one at that. She is pretty gregarious for a Scorp. She found it intolerable to not be able to communicate with him and decided to walk away. The trouble is she still loves him.
If he is willing to change, she would still take a chance on him and risk hurting herself again.
I can't understand why she would be willing to put herself through that kind of pain for an idiot like him. But hey, love is blind and deaf too I guess. IP: Logged |
Diana
Knowflake Posts: 994
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 10:05 PM
She's gregarious because she's basically a sag. Her sun is almost in sag and her other planets are in sag. Maybe uranus moving off her AC will help, but the pluto square pluto is the worst. She just needs to find something else to focus on. He won't change. IP: Logged |
rajin
Knowflake Posts: 116
From:
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 10:28 PM
You could be right Diana.
She has very few of the supposed traits of a Scorp, she does not seem to hold grudges and is not vindictive. she seems intuitive which does not seem to be a Sag trait though I dont know which sign is supposed to be.Its like she had this sense about some things and doggedly pursues them, not learning to quit.
Plus she has the foot in mouth syndrome that most Sags happily express. Bur she was a happy person someone fun to be around. I dont understand why the universe decided to bring that idiot guy into her life not once but twice, which convinced her that they have a future together. She said that if he came back a second time it was for a reason and it meant that they would have a future together.
Aren't Sags supposed to be lucky due to Jupiter being their ruler?IP: Logged |
Diana
Knowflake Posts: 994
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 10:53 PM
haha at sags being lucky. I have 5 planets in sag and I am not what you'd call lucky although in dire circumstances, when I really need luck, I usually get it. Sags can be very intuitive. Jupiter bestows some clairvoyance. Sags can believe things are fated and not let them go -- sags always have a lot of faith. She needs to let it go. IP: Logged |
belgz
Knowflake Posts: 505
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 11:00 PM
Ive noticed some pisces rising people did get depression during the time uranus their 12th house ruler conjunct their AC.Maybe its kind of like 12th house issues come to you (AC) Also pluto went over her MC and probably did enough destruction. Saturn was square her venus for a long time and it then entered her 7th house. Of course shes depressed. shes been hit where it hurts. Uranus should bring some kind of liberation and freedom soon. But astrology is not going to help her only a doctor is. ------------------
•' •.♥♫♫´°°♫ • Life is Beautiful •.♥.•♫°°´♫♫ ♥ • IP: Logged |
rajin
Knowflake Posts: 116
From:
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted December 01, 2009 11:24 PM
Hey Belgz,
Her 7th house is in Virgo as her Dsc axis is in late virgo. Of course Libra is intercepted, but does that mean that Saturn will wreck havoc with her love life for another 3 years?
Her dad was diagnosed with prostate cancer last year, he is in remission right now. But it has been one tense situation after another and no end in sight. Saturn is supposed to reward people for bearing the hard times and forging ahead. Hope she gets her reward soon.IP: Logged |
belgz
Knowflake Posts: 505
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 02, 2009 05:21 AM
it doesnt look like things are going to get better anytime soon. Uranus will trine her sun (father) in the 8th house. At the same time she will have t.saturn square her moon. Her father (4th house) ruler mercury had uranus and saturn square it. Which probably shows the start of his illness again. 4th house also rules her home.
When uranus makes its last trine to her sun it can cause something sudden to happen with 8th house matters.
She needs to start learning to deal with life now.------------------
•' •.♥♫♫´°°♫ • Life is Beautiful •.♥.•♫°°´♫♫ ♥ •
EDITED TYPO *trine*
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rajin
Knowflake Posts: 116
From:
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted December 02, 2009 07:27 AM
Belgz,
t Uranus is not conjunct her natal sun, it will be trining it soon. Her nSun is 29 Scorpio and t Uranus is 24 Pisces.Would a Trine not mean good surprises rather than bad?
"Her father (4th house) ruler mercury had uranus and saturn square it. Which probably shows the start of his illness again."
Do you mean to say that his illness will recur or are you saying about when he was diagnosed?
T saturn square n moon is a long way off. Her moon is in 18 CApricorn.It will be a while before T saturn reaches 18 Libra.IP: Logged |
belgz
Knowflake Posts: 505
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted December 02, 2009 07:54 AM
Next year saturn will be close enough to square her moon.And at the same time uranus will move closer to her sun. Trine doesnt always mean lifes great. I had pluto trine my venus for 2 years and my relationship stil ended just dealt with it differently. But to contribute to that she has a hard aspect of saturn to her already fragile emotional state. ------------------
•' •.♥♫♫´°°♫ • Life is Beautiful •.♥.•♫°°´♫♫ ♥ • IP: Logged |
rajin
Knowflake Posts: 116
From:
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted December 02, 2009 12:53 PM
Thanks Belgz for the inputs.
I will hold on to the positive aspects of a Uranus sun trine as per cafe astrology and tell her the same. This might cheer her up.
This is what cafeastrology says abt Urnaus trine sun.Uranus transits trine Sun A time during which you may be able to break through and move ahead with your ambitions and general life's purpose. You could receive unexpected help from someone older or from authority figures. A man or teacher could appear. A spirit of openness, curiosity, and "divine discontent" moves through you in this time, and the forces around and within you are less resistant to change. If you have been trying to free yourself of some old, limiting, debilitating habit or to garner the courage to create, experiment, or plunge into new territory, now is the time. You may branch out in an entirely new direction. If you are involved in work that is creative, innovative, unusual, or unconventional, you experience an influx of inspiration as well as support for what you are doing. Positive Potentials: Beneficial synchronistic events which lead to unexpected opportunities. Revitalizing your creative life. Negative Potentials: There is little that could be negative or difficult now, other than allowing inertia or conservatism to prevent you from taking the opportunities presented to you.
I think she needs positive things told to her rather then gloom and doom.
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popcorn
Knowflake Posts: 492
From:
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted December 02, 2009 01:08 PM
Astrology are not importent when people are suicidal...It's not fun. I hope it is not true that you say she are suicidal.I don't like this... People who are suicidala are not healthy. Maybe you can give some trust in a minut but then...when you not be there.. I say one more time. Suicidal people...That's not astrology nooo way.. Don't talk about positiv uranus and so on.. it's not work when people need help... IP: Logged |
lionseye***
Knowflake Posts: 268
From: edmonton, ab. ca
Registered: May 2009
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posted December 03, 2009 04:08 AM
Post deleted. Unfair and unnecessary. IP: Logged |
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