posted January 12, 2010 03:49 PM            

"SYNASTRY
When I first began to compare charts, looking for aspects from one person’s Chiron to the chart of the other individual, I expected to find this only occasionally. I also expected that, when I did find it, the relationship would have something extreme or unique about it---something to set it far apart from other relationships. Well research has proven me very wrong on the first count---and almost as far off on the second.

I have been amazed at how common Chiron aspects appear in Synastry. In fact it seems to appear more often than not. I have a theory about why but will go into that later.

As for the nature of such [Chiron-marked] relationships---they usually seem to have no initial differences from other relationships, at least superficially. However, when you look deeper you begin to see that there is a difference, and the difference is in how open the people are to each other. Let us look at a few different aspects in order to make this clearer.

CONJUNCTION
If you have your natal Chiron in conjunction to a planet in another’s chart, there is automatically some type of attraction, usually mutual. And the area of attraction fits the nature of the other planet. The attraction is not of sexual nature, unless the other planet is something like Mars or Venus. Rather, it is the attraction toward someone who seems to be travelling along the same path---a kindred spirit in some fashion. And, [here is a crucial point], what happens next depends a great deal upon the type of relationship, but even more, on the person’s self-image. IF each individual is fairly well-balanced, an excellent relationship can develop here with a feeling of being true equals in whatever area the planet represents. This is truly a good thing in romance, as you can imagine. It can be very positive in teacher/pupil and parent/child relationships because both feel free to learn from the other. BUT, if one of the individuals feels severely lacking in this area, or in need of help, that person turns to the other as a teacher, or guide, and seeks the other’s ‘superior wisdom.’ As you can imagine, this would be of benefit in counseling, or parent/ child---but can be a possible hazard in such relationships as marriage. Given enough time the Chiron aspect tends to equalize differences, and so the two people have a chance to grow eventually to feel equal here. But, until then, it is possible to build up resentment against the very person from whom you are seeking help.

No matter which type of relationship this is, one thing seems especially to be true---the planet that is aspecting Chiron from one chart to the other seems unable to keep up defenses to keep the Chiron person out. It is as if, for the Chiron person, the walls around the other come tumbling down---or at least the Chiron person has little trouble getting inside the walls the other person has built around self. And depending on how thick those wails were initially, and how dependent the person was on the security provided by the walls---such openness can be felt as truly fantastic, or extremely frightening. Especially since the person being aspected by the other’s Chiron cannot develop any other way to erect wails around his/her planet.

SQUARE
Here we have something similar to the conjunction, but with a twist. There seems to be an attraction, yet a repulsion at the same time. This mixed feeling seems to be much stronger in the Chiron person than in the other individual. The Chiron person also seems to have the initial effect of getting past the other’s defenses---but frequently causes resentment in so doing. The person being aspected by another’s Chiron becomes capable of developing new defenses to keep the Chiron person out---but then the Chiron person becomes able to get through these new defenses, as well. Therefore, if the people are insecure, this aspect turns their relationship into a battlefield. Yet even so, both people grow because of it. Positively an awareness dawns about what is going on---and the two develop a relationship with great growth potential. They perceive the process of throwing up new walls as attempts to focus on insecurities. They do not feel threatened by them, but see them as a way of clearing out the rubbish. The result---mutual growth and increasing closeness.

OPPOSITION
Between any two planets, an opposition is an exchange. It can become a war, or a partnership. When Chiron in one person’s chart opposes a planet in the chart of another person, the word ‘exchange’ takes on a very specific meaning: each person tends to take on qualities of the other. For example, let us say that one person’s Chiron opposes the other person’s Mars. The Chiron person will become more aggressive, more active, and tend to be somewhat physically attracted to the other person. The Mars person will become more individual, more of a Maverick, and more willing to open up and try new things. This can be a very positive thing, especially if each needs to grow in the area ruled by the opposing planet. If the Mars person needs to get out of ruts, or the Chiron person needs more self-assertion, the relationship can be really fantastic. However, if a person is afraid of the qualities s/he gets from the other---or is already active enough in those areas, the relationship can become extremely uncomfortable for one or both parties.

OTHER ASPECTS
Trines and sextiles from Chiron in one chart to planets in another chart also denote some of the same attraction, but the intensity is much less than with the hard aspects. There is also somewhat of a lowering of the defenses, but also not to such a drastic extent. These are good aspects to have between charts if there are other positive aspects, but alone they are not dramatically significant. Much more study is needed here.

posted January 12, 2010 04:33 PM            

Chiron aspects are very powerful indicators in synastry.

posted January 12, 2010 04:41 PM            

Or was that hairsplitting now?

posted January 12, 2010 04:49 PM            

So let me rephrase what I said:

posted January 12, 2010 04:58 PM            

bridging the old and the new; the material and the spiritual.

______________________________________________

I think that is where he could also play into soulmate relationships by bridging the material with the spiritual

posted January 12, 2010 04:58 PM            

This was something I learned from Magi Astrology. Yes, I have my issues with Magi astrology, but it is correct about certain things, and this understanding of Chiron/Mars is correct.

posted January 12, 2010 05:25 PM            

I don't believe in it.

Chiron is a centaur which means that it's an asteroid-comet half-breed. These objects orbit beyond Jupiter.

In 1977, Chiron was the first one was discovered. In 1992, Pholus was the second discovered which proved that Chiron wasn't alone. It was the same year that the 2nd transneptunian object was discovered after Pluto which was discovered in 1930.

Before the discovery of the kuiper belt in 1992, it was widely believed that Chiron came from outside our solar system. It was thought that it was going to leave our solar system. The Astrologers that wrote books on Chiron even wrote that. Now, that's proven not to be true. The discovery of the kuiper belt shows that our solar system extends far beyond than what we previously thought. It's now thought that the centaurs actually originate from the kuiper belt which is also the source of comets.

Magi Astrology was developed based on Chiron being the only centaur. It ignores all the other centaurs including even Chariklo which is larger and brighter than Chiron. Chariklo is named after Chiron's wife.

If Magi Astrologers use Chiron,why not use all the other centaurs. That's how I feel about Pluto. If Astrologers use Pluto, why not all the other transneptunian objects.

There are a lot of centaurs in our solar system. How many?

Here is a list of centaurs from Zane Stein's site:

To put things in perspective, here is a list of the relative diameters of most of the Centaurs, to the best of our knowledge. These sizes may change somewhat, as more accurate measurements are taken:

ESTIMATED SIZES

CENTAUR DIAMETER
IN KM
1995 SN55 278
Chariklo 270
2002 GZ32 192
Pholus 187
Chiron 163
Bienor 133
Amycus 121
Hylonome 111
2002 FY36 92
2003 UW292 92
#121725 (1999 XX143) 84
2002 PQ152 84
2002 QX47 84
2003 QC112 80
#120061 73
Thereus 70
Crantor 67
Asbolus 66
1996 PX33 61
Cyllarus 61
Echeclus 55
2001 KF77 55
Nessus 53
#119315 51
Elatus 47
2002 KY14 46
2000 C0104 42
2002 DH5 40
2003 UY292 40
1999 JV127 37
Pelion 37
2003 UA118 30
2000 SN331 29
119976 29
2003 QD112 29
2001 XZ255 27
2002 VG131 25
Okyrhoe 24
2000 FZF3 23
1994 TA 22
2001 BL41 20
2002 CA249 18
2003 LH7 14
2003 QP112 13
1999 HD12 12
2003 QN112 12
2002 TK301 9
1996 AR20 7
2004 CJ39 7
2000 GM137 6 http://www.zanestein.com/page4_4.htm

Here are some preliminary keywords for some centaurs from Philip Sedgwick's site

Centaurs: Cosmic High Horses

Centaurs are a unique group of bodies more or less part of the Kuiper Belt, a region of icy dust and asteroid-like bodies near the edge of our solar system. There may be hundreds of thousands of Kuiper Belt Objects. A smaller subset of this collection, Centaurs, by definition, must possess a perihelion distance greater than that of Jupiter and a semi-major axis that does not exceed Pluto's aphelion distance from the Sun (originally defined as a semi-major axis less than that of Neptune, but ignored as definition of the bodies continued).

Chiron: The wounded healer who possesses insight, wisdom and grace. Orbital Period: 50.27 yr.

Positive - healing, just, wise, fair, insightful, knowledgeable, skilled in arts, medicine, healing, philosophy, focused, positively full of one’s self, sense of soul’s purpose

Negative - opinionated, teaching others the lessons needed by oneself, wounding, corrupt, illicit, irritating demeanor, clinging, feeling homely or unwanted, estranged from parents

Mundane - healing of all types from allopathic medicine and surgery to chiropractic and all forms of homeopathy and naturopathy, soul retrieval, justice, mentoring programs, cave exploration, illegitimate offspring, archery

Ceremonial - soul retrieval, any natural healing modality, chiropractors, retreats - especially in caves, ceremonial chambers or kivas, making a talking stick or ceremonial arrow

Pholus: Keeper of the sacred wine and host to Hercules. Orbital Period: 91.95 yr.

Positive - just, wise, nurturing, meeting the needs of others while keeping own needs in balance, conscious of choice, ceremonial, pacifism, self nurturing, attentive

Negative - opinionated believing rules of cosmic forces do not apply to oneself, addicted to food or alcohol, careless regarding weaponry (or security tools), ignoring spiritual needs, indulgent, reclusive, meddling

Mundane - food and drink - especially regarding celebrations, daily ceremony and ritual

Ceremonial - toasting, blessings and grace, celebrations, creating a daily hour of power

Nessus: Ferryman at the River Evenus. Orbital Period: 120.76 yr.

Positive - generous, benevolent, compassionate, willing to lend a helping hand, cooperative, respectful of boundaries, aware of the power of life force energy, healthy use of sexual energy

Negative - coveting, possessive, jealous, vengeful, manipulative, resorting to negative alchemy for personal gain, negative use of sexual energy

Mundane - bad blood between parties, feuds over money especially regarding relationship dissolution, diseases transmitted by blood, transport ferries over water, potions, tonics and elixirs designed to cast spells, therapy specifically designed for healing sexual or monetary issues

Ceremonial - prosperity ceremonies, sexual healing rituals, ceremonies involving Earth fertility

Asbolus: An intuitive Auger. Orbital Period: 75.78 yr.

Positive - intrepid, courageous, leading the charge, motivated to reach the top, intuitive, wise, common sense insightful, solid advice

Negative - lack of sensibility, blind action, failing to follow instincts, intuitions, omens or sensors, easily intoxicated, unable to receive advice from self or others

Mundane - common sense, intuitive forces, mountain climbing - specifically in the face of obvious danger, risk taking especially under the influence, abstract logic, extreme sense of smell

Ceremonial - meditation, visualization of tasks before setting to action, climbing to reclaim a sense of nature

Chariklo: (Female) Consort to Athena and healing assistant to Vesta in the temples. Orbital Period: 63.05 yr.

Positive - boundary sensitive, wise, just, non-assumptive especially regarding personal relationship, interrogative about touchy or delicate issues

Negative - judgmental, feeling of being victimized at a glance, assumptive, intolerant, biased by gender archetypes

Mundane - swimming in the nude, eyesight, hearing, flirting, sexual harassment, motivation oriented

Ceremonial - a see no evil, hear no evil scenario, energetic healing, work to clear intent and motive

Hylonome: (Female) Grief stricken at the loss of her mate in battle. Orbital Period: 125.25 yr.

Positive - relationship devotion, sense of self with or without relationship, accommodating

Negative - grief stricken, co dependent, sacrificial, self esteem based upon relationship, self destructive in the face of relational difficulty

Mundane - grief counseling, bereavement work, relationship healing

Ceremonial - bonding ceremonies between couples, cathartic emotional relief regarding lost love, lost money or missed career opportunities

Pelion: Self-confidence for effort and the climb to accomplishment in life. Sacred Space, professional status, gratitude and sense of destiny. Orbital Period: 89.05 yr.

Positive - driven by dharma, balanced ego in professional status, giving, nurturing and sharing with co-workers with an extraordinary generosity.

Negative - Demanding, infantile in work relationships, flaunts social status as a result of accomplishments, showcases with past laurels

Mundane - job recognition, awards and accolades, merits, medals and certificates

Ceremonial - rites of passage, passing of baton, graduation ceremonies into higher spiritual orders

Elatus: Expression of self and ego through word and writing. Orbital Period: 42.16 yr.

Positive - Excellent communication, articulate, precise.

Negative - Verbose, boastful, shallow in conversation.

Mundane - creative writing, affirmations, self improvement courses, poetry

Ceremonial - reciting affirmations, chanting, writing spiritual treatises, ceremonial magic

Thereus: Relational and professional attitudes based upon others. I am what I am in this relationship because of my career status or the ornamentation of this relationship. Orbital Period: 34.63 yr.

Positive - Balance between relationship and work, money and sexuality.

Negative - Object oriented, status seeking, mercenary in work ethics, stunned by glamour and beauty of partner

Mundane - resumes, bios, promotional photos that project an image, any status object whether relational or professional

Ceremonial - tandem energy exercises, hiking for spiritual purpose with a partner, sitting in audience with an enlightened person

Okyrhoe: Daughter of Chiron and Chariklo she promotes principles of discernment and conscious life skills. Orbital Period: 24.38 yr.

Positive - affirming, supporting, common sense based, acute logic skills, organized, detailed

Negative - critical, judgmental, whining or whingeing, prophecies of doom, using logic to find fault, works in perpetual worst case scenarios

Mundane - mental attitude programs, tapes and other repetitive tools for reminding the psyche of a healthy state of mind, failure analysis in technology, spreadsheets and lists - especially those geared at mental health, affirmations, mantras, chants

Ceremonial - chanting, affirming, drumming (establishes cadence), Om exercises, cleaning to promote godliness.

Cyllarus: A handsome, devoted centaur, he represents positive sensual expression, willingness to fully embrace life in the physical plane. Orbital Period: 134.48 yr.

Positive - artistic, soothing, tactile, healing, comforting

Negative - shut down, defensive, protected, lack of creative outlet

Mundane - any body healing including massage, rebirthing, Shiatsu and those involving physical contact, artistic work that comes from full expression, such as painting with the hands, musical skill, culinary ability

Ceremonial - water rituals that include coming back on shore upon completion, rebirthing, creating ceremonies that involve contact with earth elements and water simultaneously.

Bienor - This centaur offers a sense of creative spirit, belief in urge of the soul, confidence. His name means literally, “strong man.” Orbital Period: 66.81 yr.

Positive - creative, inspired, talented, motivated, burning with creative vigor

Negative - repressed, sullen, withdrawn, resentful that life does not respond and bestow rewards

Mundane - benefactors, creative sanctuaries, places of recognition (Halls of Fame, etc.), awards, grants and prizes for projects seeking funding support

Ceremonial - mediation upon the heart, Hatha yoga, meditation in general, creating while listening to or dancing with music, dance ceremonies

Amycus - The longer period of this centaur seeks longevity and notoriety. Orbital Period: 126.38 yr.

Positive - intuitive, questioning, insightful, progressive, determined, reliable

Negative - doubtful, skeptical, withdrawn, often late, unreliable, lacking resolve, insecure

Mundane - doctrines and policies designed to produce a result (policy manuals, creeds), any mechanical device that enables a shift in energy, for instance a clutch for shifting gears, monuments, commandments (as in carved in stone), pictographs and petroglyphs

Ceremonial - stretching, yogas that shift fixed structures, chiropractic sessions, watching storms as a mediation, drumming, descent into the underworld (use of caves or kivas)

Crantor - Emotional declaration stands out as the quest for Crantor, not actually a centaur, but killed by one. A bit of the "What did I every do to you?" syndrome applies. Orbital Period: 86.09 yr.

Positive - sensitive, emotional expressive, strong sense of emotional boundaries, nurturing and passionate

Negative - emotionally abuse, manipulative through feelings, projects guilt, shame and blame upon others, substance abuse

Mundane - acute sense of emotional motivations, cathartic therapies and the ability to lead them, comprehension of emotionally based traumas and phobic responses, grief counseling

Ceremonial - cathartic ceremony, Wailing Wall-like rituals, water cleansing rituals, baptisms, fervent declarations of faith, ceremonies of emotional renewal

Echeclus - The mental balance between the abstract and linear logic. Swift decision making criteria resulting in polarized good idea/bad idea scenarios. Orbital Period 35.24 years.

Positive - mentally integrating, solution oriented, non-judgmental, abstract, conceptual, will shift opinion when new information or consciousness prompts a new set of beliefs

Negative - critical, opinionated, twisted logic, rationalizing, able to justify anything

Mundane - abstract art, conceptual theories, spatial relations, forced decisions under time pressure, close calls, head injuries

Ceremonial - celebration of the coyote or trickster, meditation on time/space warps http://www.philipsedgwick.com/

imho there are over 30 centaurs that are underestimated and overlooked.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted January 12, 2010 05:26 PM            

but I believe that the other centaurs have significant influences, but there are so many. I wouldn't want somebody's Nessus on my Venus. A Venus-Chariklo aspect could be significant in relationships. I have it in a trine my natal chart. Philip Sedgwick wrote that Chariklo has to do with relationships boundaries.

The Magi Society haven't bothered to explore even Chiron's fellow named centaurs.

The stuff that they said about Sedna being an evil planet really takes the cake. There is no sound basis for those assertions. There is too much of fatalistic quality to Magi Society's approach. the end all, be all. I have a problem with that approach in any type of Astrology.

some of their stuff isn't original like the magi quad stuff comes right out of the uranian astrology/hamburg school. don't get me started on the Magi 7 chart which is just the 7th harmonic aspects.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted January 12, 2010 05:45 PM            

quote:

---

Magi Astrology was developed based on Chiron being the only centaur.

---

That is not true. I have books on Magi astrology and I have never seen this claim. Whether Chiron was the only centaur or one of a 1000 has nothing to do with its interpretation. It's like saying that because the ancient didn't discover the outer planets, their understanding of the inner planets were incorrect.

posted January 12, 2010 05:54 PM            

They have been including some asteroids and even Sedna which they said was an evil planet, but they haven't included centaurs like Pholus,Chariklo,Asbolus,Nessus,and Hylonome and many others. like I said before, Pholus was discovered in 1992. There was plenty of time to do research on that centaur.

including the other centaurs would complicate their system, especially if they use up to 3 degree orb for the conjunction,opposition,trine,quincunx as well as the declinations.

I had their books too. Just because they don't state that they created their system based on Chiron being the only centaur in their books doesn't mean that they didn't.

It's their actions that shows it.

Chiron is the only centaur that they use in their system. They don't use the other centaurs which now number over 60. 2 of them are larger. Chariklo is the 2nd largest of them. At least, they could use the ones that already have names, especially the ones discovered in the 1990's.

any ways.....I didn't say Chiron doesn't have a significant influence. I only raised the point that maybe Chiron's fellow 60 centaurs could also have significant, especially the ones that were discovered in the 1990's and the largest ones. The centaurs named after males have highly eccentric orbs. The centaurs named after females have orbits that are lower in eccentricity.

also....with with forer effect, it's possible anything can work in Astrology. I am starting to think that's how Mainstream Astrology works.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted January 12, 2010 06:03 PM            

quote:

---

but Magi Astrologers haven't bothered to use any other centaurs. They only use Chiron.

---

How does this negate or invalidate their interpretation of Chiron?

Is Chiron tied up to all the other centaurs in a siamese twin way that makes its interpretation separated from the other centaurs erroneous? I am not sure I understand what you're trying to get at.

posted January 12, 2010 07:43 PM            

This is a very strong linkage and creates the intuitive feeling of having known another person in a previous life - often a sign of "love at first sight" - especially for the Chiron person.

posted January 12, 2010 07:50 PM            

I guess that easier Chiron synastry aspects can help the Chiron person heals his/her wounds, while the hard aspects can become hurtful.

posted January 12, 2010 08:20 PM            

Chiron as the wounded-healer brings immense emotional mirroring when it is connected strongly between charts. The relationship becomes a vessel to work out old wounds, pain and issues that have been repressed and tucked away inside...'out of sight'...'out of mind'. It is also a dynamic karmic link that embraces the union with growth, support and magic. It wears many coats and faces and is beautifully agile at becoming what each person most needs. To understand what it will bring to the relationship...the first step is into looking at what wounds are carried....how deeply they penetrate. It is those realms that Chiron will activate as described by the plant it is conjuncting. Where Chiron assimilates...healing ensues and from the healing an empowering and magnificent future is offered.

Sun conjunct Chiron between charts:

This dynamic conjunction brings in healing potential to the relationship and allows the sun person to learn of their strengths and their inner wounds that need to be released for their growth. The sun person receives healing and understanding, a sense that a missing piece has arrived in their life and although the piece missing is always an eternal component the catalyst comes through Chiron. For the Chiron person it is often the connection with their sun person that brings them the uncovering of their destiny, their unique and undeniable place in life. Talents are exposed and brought into the world. These are not always 'easy' relationships as often old wounds must be bared to bring about the most healing but the connection that lies below the surface is always about compassion, caring and a true conviction in the potential of each other.

Mercury conjunct Chiron between Charts:

This often appears in the charts of those who feel their thoughts and mind invalid either because of life circumstances or inners security issues and the Chiron person becomes the catalyst to allow the mercury person to find their own strength in their intellectual abilities. Can bring in a powerful and trustworthy relationship and is indicative of a glorious friendship and companionship. .

Moon Conjunct Chiron between charts:

The feelings drawn out between these connections are always profoundly bittersweet as they allow the emotional reservoirs their liberation and their healing. The Chiron person becomes a mirror for the inner maternal and emotional wounds of the moon and cleansing is the reward. A bond of empathy and psychic understanding are often strongly in place. Requires awareness and consciousness on both parts as the feelings and emotional centers are keenly open and vulnerable.

Venus Conjunct Chiron between charts:

Healing through the heart is often the hallmark of this relationship and this can turn into a powerful and victorious story of life for the couple. Venus instinctively trusts Chiron and Chiron feels comfortable and at peace with Venus. Occurs frequently later in life with those who seem to be able to embrace and heal life old wounds or very early in life when we are just learning our vulnerabilities and security needs.

Mars conjunct Chiron between charts:

Whatever the basic drive of the mars person is it is focused and mirrored off of the Chiron person. This can be energizing or it can be disabling as the two energies are warriors at heart. With an altruistic attitude this relationship can turn into a dynamic machine that champions the under dog and uses the combined chemistry to accomplish more.

North Node conjunct Chiron between charts:

A handful of good luck and healing that follows the north node person far into their future. Regardless of the actual length of this union the memory remains forever a strong and vibrant part of the north nodes persona. Can help also anchor the relationship into a on term union with progressive and constant healing and growth patterns.

South node conjunct Chiron between charts:

The past (south node) meets the wounds (Chiron) . Shades of karmic liaisons and soul mate tales can infuse this dramatic union but it is usually about replaying literal events in the immediate past as they surface to be understood, healed and released through the present union. Can also indicate a combined life journey using learned talents and skills."

posted January 12, 2010 09:17 PM            

Glaucus, thanks for all the info on the centaurs, I just calculated where natal Chariklo is and its in my 7th widely conjunct my Venus, Chiron is also widely conjunct my natal Venus as well. And Pholus is conjunct my DSC.

posted January 12, 2010 09:51 PM            

I find what you say re: Chiron opposite Mars to be true. My brother and his SO have this and they have been together since 17 (on and off mind you) but they are 24 this year.. there is a massive struggle re: marriage... I have never seen two people who love and adore each other get so worked up over commitment to each other though they won't leave each other ever! They usually break up over commitment issues but then get back together again because they can't leave each other. It's like.. just propose to her already!!!!

Chiron aspects

posted January 13, 2010 07:03 PM            

For me my Mercury is conjunct another's Chiron but it felt like there was more to it then I realized that Mercury rules my Moon and Chiron is said to rule Virgo where my Moon is located.

posted January 14, 2010 07:50 AM              

i have this with Jonnhy and it is all of that really.

and also we have the lilith - moon cj.which i believe that also adds importance to the kiron/moon aspect.

the two people have to be very aware of things,and mature in order to handle the best way,the quiron energies.