posted April 13, 2010 12:32 PM              

but am curious about the asc being square to the pluto chiron opposition .. ( his chart )
may as well add in venus .. as chiron 'n venus straddle the ic

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not read thru the whole thread .. but ..
have persons A progressions been checked against person B's natal chart ? .. or visa versa ..
don't know if it helps ..
but .. i tried it recently and found it interesting ..
( 'n cheers to the knowflake who posted that technique )

posted April 13, 2010 12:56 PM            

Ami

posted April 13, 2010 01:29 PM            

I actually am very thankful for the existence of Venus-Pluto in my chart; it is a good counter for my more intellectual placements.
To understand that, you have to see more of my chart.

Sun-Mercury conjunction in Sag in 1st house
Mars in Sag in 12th conjuncts ASC in SAg conjunct Neptune in Sag in 1st house conjunct NN in Sag in 1st house.

Moon in Aquarius in 2nd house.

Chartruler in Pisces in 3rd house squaring Neptune, NN and ASC.

You see I have strong Sag placements, strong Neptune (conjunct ASC, Mars and NN; chartruler in Pisces square Neptune); pretty strong Mercury (conjunct Sun, chartruler in 3rd house).

And also a bit of Uranian energy through my Aqua-Moon.

So Jupiter, Neptune, Uranus, Mercury - in a way those fit to each other. Flying high in my mind, actually living mostly in my mind. Idealistic, maybe with some rosecoloured romanticism due to Neptune, but usually intellectually oriented. Despite the very strong sensitivity Neptune gives me, this is a more lighthearted or actually mind-oriented constellations. Always thinking, chasing this unreachable star, you know?
I think it also makes me interested in other`s philosophies and ideas and lives, and gives me some kind of openness and tolerance (at least I am striving towards these).
The one quality my friends see in me is "attentiveness" (I actually made them do a survey asking for the top three to five qualities - positive and negative- they see in me, and what animal they see in me - for some time it was our waste of time at university to make this psychological survey for every of our friends. lol That was so telling about my Uranus-Mercury-Jupiter-Neptune placement. Curiosity without end). Attentiveness in the way, that I am a good listener, that they feel they can talk to me about anything, cause I will understand, and I will always see the other party`s viewpoint and make them see the tiny little dot of light at the end of a long dark tunnel.
So, with my friends and in general ways I can be tolerant, understanding and openminded (and did I mention that I sometimes can be a bit arrogant. ).
But all of this, as nice it is, is happening very much on a mind level or on a level of love for creation itself. A more generalized, spiritual form of loving this world (very Neptunian)

And then there comes Venus-Pluto.

Venus in Capricorn in 1st house squaring Pluto in Libra on the MC. (Venus rules 5th, 10th and 6th house, Pluto rules 11th and 12th house).

I also have the ruler of 2nd house in 8th house (Venus-Pluto) and the ruler of 8th house in 2nd house (Venus-Pluto) and the ruler of 2nd house is EXACTLY quinkunx the ruler of 8th house; and of course they fall into the 2nd and 8th house.
It`s some kind of house reception I guess. It emphasizes more the Taurus-Scorpio theme of Venus-Pluto as 2nd house is associated with Taurus.

How does it show?

As soon as some Venus-symbolism is triggered, like creativity, selfexpression, romance (Venus as ruler of 5th house), ways of relating, love (Venus), Pluto will be triggered, too.

Well, first of all in a great hunger (even literally. lol) for security, a fear of insecurity; actually there is much fear at the base of me. (that is probably the role the 2nd house emphasis plays - that need for feeling secure).
It also means that as tolerant I am usually am, the moment I fall in love (Venus), I feel like I am plunged into hellfire (Pluto).
Jealousy - yes. But more in the sense of: "I am not enough. Not loveable enough, not beautiful enough etc.".

It also means, that once I fall in love, that is it. It means forever. I can`t "un-love" someone I very deeply loved. That is the reason only few selected people got access to that deep place in my heart and soul.
Of course there is the fear of the pain it could bring, the fear of losing the one I love (which is really big in me), but it is also the feeling, that I am going to be trapped; I can move out, I can go away, and yet a part of me will never leave. (The fact that I have retro Saturn in Cancer in 8th house emphasised that theme).

It means it is damned hard to move on and leave the past behind, and probably makes me prone to unrequited feelings, too.

On the other hand it also gives a depth of feeling, an intensity, a feeling of being alive, that I wouldn´t want to miss. The greatest intensity and even pain also often finds a creative outlet (because of my strongest unrequited "crush" I have written hundreds of poems, and some are even quite good - the crush may have passed, even though it never really will, but the poems stay with me; okay not really, cause one day I printed them all out and burned them - very ritualistic - very Venusian-Plutonian - it was a nice symbol, it just didn`t help. lol).

It probably explains my affinity with vampires, the "forbidden love"-part at least. I do not care for blooddrinking and eternal life though. But that thought of "stepping over the line", definitely holds some appeal.

I can lose myself passionately in a melody, a film, completely. I can feel these things at the core of my beating heart with an intensity that only few people really understand. It`s actually a good feeling.

And I noticed, that I need to have Venus-Pluto or Mars-Pluto prominent in synastries, otherwise I will not be attracted. Could be an aspect, or the other could have Pluto in 1 or Mars in Scorpio or Venus-Pluto-aspect, something like that.

Of course, my lofty and dreamy and intellectual planets often gather and whisper (well, actually they shout, but the Sag ones think of that shouting as whispering; they just can`t be secretive): "What is she doing there again? WE don`t understand that. That seems dangerous. Let`s go and analyze something, that will distract us and get us on known territory again."

And that is what they, I, do. Pulling me back into my mind, and analyzing the deepest passionate feelings, until they do not seem so "dangerous" anymore.
Why do they feel dangerous at all? Hmm, I think it has to do with the fear of losing control in any way.

So, I do feel Venus-Pluto, but usually only for me, inside of me. It seems to be not so threatening for my calmness that way.

posted April 13, 2010 01:47 PM            

Hmm, no. Well, yes, but no. Did I make myself clear now?

It`s the greatest misunderstanding that people think you have to deliberately overcome your feeling; I have realized, it is actually the opposite. I have to acknowledge them, accept them, give myself the permission to feel. There is nothing wrong about feelings, about loving someone, even if it is not requited.

BUT where I agree that obsession must be overcome, is when you indulge in behaviour that might harm someone else.
I am allowed to have feelings for someone, but just the same the other person`s borders need to be respected.

I am very obsessed with "respecting personal borders"; actually so much that I am constantly on my guard and often fearing I could have stepped over some line that was not for me to step over, so much in fact, that for a long time I even shied away from initiating contact with people, just because I thought they might interprete me saying "Hello", as an invasion of their personal sphere.

Maybe that is Venus-Pluto, too, especially with Venus in Cappy. I rather stay within myself than annoying someone with my presence.

Anyway, for me the key to this aspect is: Respect.

Respect the other person and their feelings, BUT (and that was interstingly the harder part to learn for me) also respect my own feelings and that I have actually a right to feel and love, and that this is a beautiful thing.
Love without expectations, just for the sake of loving. One of my bigger lessons.

And probably one other is to actually express my feelings actively, instead of hiding them inside and shying away from them (Pluto is good in suppressing, too).

Looking back on my life, I have NEVER "stalked" anyone, but I have had one or two "friens" who showed some stalkative behaviour towards me in such annoying, persistent ways that I had to get insulting and very clear to get rid of them.

posted April 13, 2010 01:58 PM            

She has NEVER been obsessively in love, BUT she is the most devoted person I know with very high moral and a true perfectionist.
If she considers you a friend or as part of her family, she will go for you through fire and will unquestionably stand at your side and fight for and with you to the end.

posted April 13, 2010 03:39 PM            

My mercury is at 9 cap.

DD,

I noticed that her mercury and venus were the same, but so many aqua's or pisces or caps will have similiar mercury and venus placements since those planets are never too far out from the sun.

I just chose to take her word for it, since she said it's not her.

posted April 13, 2010 04:27 PM            

yes you`re right. I was just curious, cause her Mercury is also on 5 Aquarius apparently. But of course I believe her.

And yes, I am also dying on curiosity. I want to know the background story!

posted April 13, 2010 05:46 PM            

It's exact!

A lot of people are remarking about his unaspected venus, but that can go both ways. It can actually make it stronger and out of control, like a rogue planet.

posted April 13, 2010 05:57 PM            

His mercury (7th house ruler) is at the midpoint of her Sun and Moon. That would be pretty compelling but I can’t get my head around who would be more affected.
I’m going to have to sit on the fence and ponder this for a while.

Actually his Mercury Neptune opposition turns her rather wide Sun Moon opposition into a grand cross, hmm….more to think about. I know the orbs are too wide for some but I will take it into account.

posted April 13, 2010 07:14 PM            

This is in the spirit of sharing and learning.

Everyone here has brought so much to the table, I'm ecstatic

A few things to think about

1. This was a significant relationship supported by the sextile their Rulers make to each other.

2. They were both dealing with a heavy Pluto transit.
He on the Ascendant, She on the Descendant.

3. (for AmiAnn) They have mutual Moon/Mars aspects. (her Moon) There is a strong attraction yes but the Moon"s feeling are always getting hurt, not on purpose but because the Moon individual is uber sensitive towards Mars.

Trying to be patient here

posted April 13, 2010 07:49 PM            

Reason? Her Neptune is aspecting his Sun. With every crush I've had, their Neptune was running amok making me see all the illusions as real.

posted April 13, 2010 09:02 PM            

If she told him she liked/loved him... I am pretty sure - due to his Mars placement, that he would have gone for her.. even if he wasn't all that "into" her, purely due to the physical attraction. So she would've only found out *later* -- after the relationship became physical -- that he wasn't "all that into her".

Unless there are other things we don't know about.. If he is already happily married.. or if it is a taboo situation and he can't give in to the attraction -- that changes things. But in this case, I'm not sure it counts as unrequited.. If he is saying "no" for some outer reason.

posted April 13, 2010 09:05 PM            

quote:

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His Karma on her Moon = Ouch!

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Yes, but her karma is on his saturn. It goes both ways with these two which makes it so hard to figure out.

posted April 13, 2010 09:06 PM            

quote:

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We need to know what the circumstances were -- whether one just couldn't be with the other for some reason.

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True!

lol

Tell Us!!!!!!!!!

hehehe

posted April 13, 2010 09:31 PM            

I wanna thank everyone who posted their analysis, It's so great to see how your astro-minds work!

OK, Reveal time, for our case of obsessive unrequited love,

the person with the obsessive and unrequited feelings is...

His name, Grant Dunn,
and he fell very strongly for Emanuela Ferro

Some of you noted that you didn't see very strong particularly 'romantic' feelings in the chart comparison. Which from a personal relating perspective is interesting. Here are the case details:

He, 38, was an accomplished teacher from Scotland, and personal remarks about people who knew him were very much remarks you'd think to hear about someone with Sagittarius Asc,

quote:

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"He had the wanderlust from a very young age. He wanted to go and look at the world. He was a happy-go-lucky guy who looked to get the most out of life.

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Reports state he was introduced to Emanuela by a mutual acquiantance, and personal tutoring lessons began at his home, although the sessions did not last for as long as he would have liked, there were only 4. (There is a conflicting article from BBC stating it was the wife who was giving the tutoring in the home.) More reports stated she became uncomfortable at his increasing interest in her, remarking to her boyfriend that this would be the reason for breaking contact. The wife consistently claims she had no knowledge of her husband's interest in the teenager. Grant wrote her obsessively from his computer, and then started leaving other notes.

quote:

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He left love letters on her windscreen but she already had a boyfriend and wasn't interested.

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quote:

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Her boyfriend, Christian Laggiard, said: "She told me he was trying to court her and that she wasn't interested in him. But she wasn't worried either. "She went to his house a few times for English lessons. She decided not to go any more because of his obvious interest in her but it wasn't all that heavy at the time. "I never thought he was that obsessed with her. There was no warning.
"If we'd had a hint of what he was to do we would have obviously gone to the police. "What could I have done? If a man fancies your girlfriend do you break his face? "If he touches her you intervene. But if he is just writing letters?"

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