posted April 13, 2010 09:31 PM            

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Her boyfriend, Christian Laggiard, 29, said: "She met him when she needed help with her English studies. He would leave letters for her but she was not interested in him. "He said he couldn't live like he was, not having his feelings returned. He had had enough."

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quote:

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He left a note saying: "She was going away forever, leaving me alone.

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quote:

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She tried to flee as he opened the car door and took aim but he put three bullets in
her back and two in her head. A sixth missed.

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quote:

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Moments before the murder, Dunn handed his note to a friend of Emanuela's and told her: "The police will be here soon." [...] "But now we will be together forever up in heaven. Don't cry because we will be happier."

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quote:

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Guiseppe Marabatto refused to reveal the contents of the letter but he did say, "there were phrases from a 38-year-old man who was besotted with a girl much younger than himself".

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quote:

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Dunn had no criminal record or history of mental illness and gave no warning of what he was about to do. He even laughed and joked with his wife's grandad before leaving home to commit the murder. Dunn's wife Cristina said: "I didn't notice anything strange about him. He left at about 10am with his bag, saying he had to pop into town on a quick errand. "He said he would be home soon as usual. Before he left he helped my grandfather carry a heavy bag and even joked, 'Is it Christmas already?' "Grant was an exceptional man - generous and reserved. I can't rationally explain what happened." [...] Police spokesman Giuseppe Marabotto said: "It seems to be a crime of passion. We discovered from our colleagues in Britain that he had no previous convictions. "He just lost his head."

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His progressed chart had a quite viscious looking t-square at the time, along with a Sun sq Uranus for acting out irationally. Capricorn Asc, chart ruler Saturn in 1st house opposed 2deg Mars in H7, forming a t-square with Mercury in H3. H3 being of course our neighborhood, our community. He traveled a very short distance to where he knew she was going to be, as she had just left her class and was still in the school parking lot, and dealt with his Saturn/Mars tension the best way he could. Very tragic story.

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Here are a few articles on the story, the news quotes were lifted from these sources,
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/OBSESSED+ASSASSIN%3B+Killer+teacher's+love+notes+to+girl+victim.-a074786515
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/FATAL+ATTRACTION%3B+Brit+teacher+kills+student,+19,+then+himself+so...-a074786209
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/1342367.stm

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Here is their birth info from AstroDatabank,

Dunn, Grant Gender: M
born on 16 April 1963 at 01:10 (= 01:10 AM )
Place Argyll, Scotland, 56n24, 5w27
Timezone GDT h1e (is daylight saving time)
Data source Quoted BC/BR Rodden Rating AA
Biography
Scottish schoolteacher in a private school. Though married to an Italian wife, Dunn had an unrequited love for one of the private students, 19-year-old Emmanuela Ferro. In jealousy and frustration, he shot her to death on 5/18/2001 and then shot himself.

Ferro, Emanuela Gender: F
born on 7 February 1982 at 12:45 (= 12:45 PM )
Place Pinerolo, Italy, 44n53, 7e21
Timezone MET h1e (is standard time)
Data source Quoted BC/BR Rodden Rating AA
Biography
Italian student in a private school. Her married teacher, Grant Dunn, fell in love with her, in spite of the fact that she was married and she did not encourage him. In jealousy and frustration, he shot her to death on 5/18/2001 and then shot himself.

posted April 13, 2010 09:33 PM            

I went looking back over the responses at some insights here from you all, lots of talent here! And if you guessed it was her don't be discouraged cos part of the reason for me posting this was that the answer did not *pop* when I first looked at the charts, so right or wrong it's good exercise

from Vapor-Lash:
"His Mercury - chart ruler is only getting negative aspects.'
---You can see this in his attempts @ further communication being continually rebuffed. It's not for lack of trying.
"his Moon in Capricorn and her Venus retrograde in Capricorn. Venus R can come across as "cold" to direct planets in the same sign - mainly the Moon (the Moon is affectionate). A Retro Venus keeps emotions inside.. This is the only thing that MAY have made him feel rejected"
---I just wanted to add this again because it drew my interest, for others who haven't read this.
"IF it is him - then I'm actually doubting his love... I'd call it Arien challenge -mania. He feels he can't OWN her Mars-Pluto..and he wants to keep trying."
---Yes, unfortunately true.
"His Saturn conjunct her Sun. He could be very in awe of her and very supportive of her. I feel that she would have the upper hand with this aspect in terms of love."
---The supportive aspect being the teaching capacity, yes. It started there and then he wanted more.
"If these people have never even dated.. he would see her as a challenge and that's enough for an Aries with Pisces Venus to think he is in love - for a life time (as long as the relationship never materializes)."
---I think he did. A challenge on which he projected many romantic feelings.

from electricmind:
"she's got neptune in the 7th house which already gives her boundary issues and idealization in one-on-one relationships."
---H7 is also what we attract.
"her mars/saturn/pluto libra stellium falls into a conjunction on his midheaven. again, a lot of idealism and looking up to."
---Hmm, I usually think it's the MC person who looks up to the other who has planets conj that pt.
"venus in the 8th, even in capricorn... for some reason i'm feeling like given her 7th house neptune as well, she might be a bit obsessive about relationships in general."
---Again Venus can also be what we attract. In H8 it's so potent for her, with that close square to Pluto it's hard to say how else she would have met this dynamic had she lived.
"aqua suns can harbor crushes for a long time. mostly because they are trying to distinguish whether its just friends feelings or romantic feelings."
---He came on to her repeatedly and she shrugged it off, the Aqua/Capricorn indifference?

posted April 13, 2010 09:33 PM            

from Benedict Moon*:
"Aries Sun, Leo Mars, Pisces Venus: The hopeless romantic who chases. Pisces Venuses are prone to unrequited stuff of novels, Aries Sun/Leo Mars combo can't resist a challenge. And who better to fit the actual challenge than an aloof Aquarius Sun with a introverted retrograde Capricorn Venus?"
---Great work just going by signs, it's amazing how easy it is to push those to the side.
"Her neptune squaring his pisces venus is like waving Smirnoff in front of an alcoholic. He will totally fall for the allure of neptune. Putting her on a pedestal, seeing what's not there, attributing characteristics to her that never existed, etc."
---This is something I missed as well. Another good call.

posted April 13, 2010 09:34 PM            

from lalalinda:
"A classic aspect of unrequited love is Venus square Pluto which she has"
---I hate to say this cos I have the same aspect but it can go both ways. The fact that hers is in the 8th as well....If I had looked at her chart I would've liked to put her on the awares of any man who seemed 'too' interested. And I'm sure she had her share of intense involvements that were 1 sided in her short time. In cases like this I hate to see lives play out the classic way you think they would.

from Belage:
"I see that his Saturn and his Neptune square her Chiron, so I would say that he broke her heart.
---Ultimately, I agree. And she didn't see it coming

from Cherle:
"No strong aspects to his Venus"
---This is true. Another thing that threw people off. But it's love he's claiming. Something irrational that flew in under the radar.
"Welcome to the "Unrequited Love for Some Impossible-to-Please Cap Moon Guy" Club, girlfriend!"
---I have Capricorn Moon myself but I agree heartily: the men seem to have hearts that are v.hard to please!

posted April 13, 2010 10:02 PM            

I could tell by their charts that this was most likely what happened. No one has really hit on what led me to see it. There are SO MANY things pointing to it, that it's ridiculous. I was thinking it, but didn't want to go there, but then I saw his progressed chart and it just became even more crystallized in my mind. The transits clinched it for me.

It's going to take me a long time to type it all out, because it was in all the charts -- I have to see confirmations in more than one chart to be sure. I didn't even do the other charts I usually do. I will end up doing them.

posted April 13, 2010 10:27 PM            

I'm wow-ed by you right now.
I'll run every synastry by you in the future LOL

Lonake - That truly is a very sad story. Thank you for the thread. It was a great idea and we all learnt a lot from it!

It's horrible it had to end this way. I am sure now that he was sexually obsessed and saw it as love

I've had two of the significant aspects they have. One is Mars conjunct my Moon - I have this with my ex and he was convinced he wanted to marry me before our relationship became physical. I am happy it was never too serious afterwards, because I much prefer being friends. I can't say I was ever in love with him - but we were very well matched physically.

I have the Saturn-Sun -- very close, as you might remember, with my Leo guy. He was also in a position of power towards me when we first met. He was/is very supportive. But our relationship has never been "obsessive" or weird. We're both pretty laid back and friendly. There is always an undertone of sexuality but there is also a great friendship and lots of mutual affection. I think this might be due to other aspects though.

posted April 13, 2010 11:52 PM            

Now looking back, I see that the ruler of her 12th house is Venus, and her Venus is her 8th house of sex and death, in Cap which is ruled by Saturn.

posted April 13, 2010 11:58 PM            

edit,
Here is their birth info from AstroDatabank,

Dunn, Grant Gender: M
born on 16 April 1963 at 01:10 (= 01:10 AM )
Place Argyll, Scotland, 56n24, 5w27
Timezone GDT h1e (is daylight saving time)

Ferro, Emanuela Gender: F
born on 7 February 1982 at 12:45 (= 12:45 PM )
Place Pinerolo, Italy, 44n53, 7e21
Timezone MET h1e (is standard time)

You can just go to astrodatabank.com and look em up to add em to 'my astro' real quick. except for his i had to add in 'Odan' since that is a city in Argyll, which may be a county, in Scotland. So Odan would be his birthplace. It looks like "Odan, Argyll, Scotland"

posted April 14, 2010 12:38 AM            

GG:
You are too cute.
You know my Sun is opp your Asc/Mars

Ami:
"She has mars, conjunct Saturn and Pluto--it seems ---in the 5th house."
---This is a huge driving force of a stellium. It could typify males she encounters or her own male energy. In H5 it could just be stops and starts with being fertile and wanting to conceive very badly. There are a lot of ways this could have gone.
"Is the 8th house Venus a wild type of Venus in the sense that Venus would not like to be in Scorpio's house and so acts out of character for Venus."
---I think it means her Venus is doubly impacted by Pluto and she's fated to encounter very strong feelings and the taboo in her love life/relationships, either by her feelings or by someone else towards her. Think of it like this: You're born with a certain natal energy (Venus/Pluto) you either feel it act it out, but you can also EASILY become a projection for anyone who harbors obsessive tendencies in their chart. Don't know how clear I sound here.

DD:
"Maybe that is Venus-Pluto, too, especially with Venus in Cappy. I rather stay within myself than annoying someone with my presence."
---I have the same square, I feel similarily. It's strange for me because at the same time there's fear, there's a lot of passion too. It's an odd dynamic.
"That is also a side of Pluto.
Unwavering loyalty - of course coupled with very high expectations of the same loyalty back."
---I agree.

posted April 14, 2010 12:39 AM            

winter:
"His mercury (7th house ruler) is at the midpoint of her Sun and Moon"
---ahh i forgot midpoints too. his natal merc is quite conflicted tho, square his mars i believe. this couldve played into something...remember how she ignored his communications, i wonder if this is part of the reason he was set off.

lalalinda:
baby, you know leo risings are all about the ! thank you x0x0x
"They were both dealing with a heavy Pluto transit.
He on the Ascendant, She on the Descendant."
---No kidding. Talk about awestruck when I saw that transit.

buzzorific:
"He's smitten over her.

posted April 14, 2010 01:37 AM            

Everyone, stop!

I'll start with the natals. His first.

His sun's ruler, mars, is in leo, conjunct a nasty fixed degree associated with murder. Karma is right there next to it, also at a very nasty degree. Mars is the focal point of a t-square with a mercury/neptune opposition. It was this merc/nep opposition that really led me to believe he was the one with the unrequited feelings. That aspect can indicate delusional feelings that careen out of control. The nep/merc is on the 5th/11th house axis, being stronger on the cusps than if it were in the houses. To boot, Neptune is on a critical degree that also is violent. It is also rx, which doesn't help the functioning of the planet. To add to the matter, the 5th/11th axis is conjunct more evil degrees.

Venus is exalted in pisces, which can be a very fantastical placement, with daydreams of love being projected onto someone who doesn't feel the same. Think neptune in the 7th, but on steroids. It being unaspected turned it into a beast in his case. It has a wide trine to neptune, which couldn't have helped. Its ruler, neptune rules the 3rd of the mind, so his thinking can be very neptunian, which can be good, but in his case, with the rest of his chart, it was not.

He has no air, unless you count saturn and the MC, and I really don't as stand alone placements for a deficiency of element. He couldn't look at his feelings logically, so they became obsessive.

His MC is at another very critical degree, ruler venus, which we just discussed.

Ahh, I forgot, his t-square with mercury/neptune square saturn. I already discussed the merc/nep, but the square to saturn from the 5th/11th may have meant he felt her rejection and his feelings for her were stripping away his self-worth.

His neptune really sealed it for me. He is very neptunian. It makes many aspects that all are within orb. The mars square neptune is one I see a lot in domestic murders, whether it be in natal or in transit. It is present a lot. To me, it says the person's anger, rage, violence, actions (mars) is blown out of proportion, delusional, dangerous, nebulous (neptune). Of course not everyone who has this aspect or transit will be this way, but taken with other transits and natal configurations, it is a standard that is there quite often.

The chart ruler, jupiter, is also a bit critical, and besides a few wide orbed aspects is unaspected. Posited in the 3rd of the mind, it can magnify his thought and emotions. It disposits to mars, which I already covered, so it's in that mess of a configuration.

Moon is trine mercury, which sets off the entire configuration. All that energy feeds off almost every point in his chart, which could've been a good thing, but for him, it wasn't. It's what the person does with the energy that matters. He couldn't control it, so he became obsessive. Maybe it was because the lack of air, so that he couldn't detach from all of his feelings. Obviously, it isn't that simple, there would be other non-astro reasons as well, but astro-wise, that's my theory, along with the other things I've mentioned so far. The progressed chart and the transits just pushed it all over the edge for him...added fuel to the fire, so to speak.

Saturn disposits to uranus, which surprise of all surprises, is also critical in his 8th.

His DC is critical. Ruler is mercury, which is bound up in those two t-squares.

Someone like him, with a deficiency in air would do well to do air type activities -- reading, critical thinking, etc. To forget his fire/water/earth thoughts and drives. A therapist would help an air deficient person, because a therapist is detached. Talking to a friend about the feelings would've helped too, but he didn't tell anyone, it seems. Talking is air (gemini).

I need to backtrack as to why I picked him as the obsessed one. I wrote why in my previous postings. The house overlays were all in his personal houses. That was what clinched it for me. I thought there was a power imbalance not because of the overlays of the more personal houses, but because of the MC action. That told me there was someone more in a position of authority here, but I wasn't sure who, because it went both ways. At the time, I didn't think anything violent had occurred. That came later when I saw his progressed and then started to dig further. Before that, I had noticed the critical degrees in both charts and it was nagging at me, and I thought maybe something happened, but brushed it aside. Once I saw his progressed, I was floored, and then I really started to look for it. Of course I found it.

Her chart also had critical degrees, troubling aspects and transits, but the feel of her chart was more the one of a victim, but I couldn't be entirely sure. Between the two natal charts, I started to see things that troubled me. Her stellium in the 5th screamed victim to me. Mars, saturn, pluto all conjunct in the house of love and sex made me look closer, because I knew something was awry in that area of her life, given that lineup.

So...I dug deeper with that in mind. I still didn't know if it was she who was the stalked or the stalkee, but I FELT it was her. I kept telling myself, while looking at the charts, to "keep an open mind, you don't KNOW she was a victim, make the theory fit the evidence, not the evidence fit the theory." So, I really strove to do that.

Her chiron in the 12th stood out too. Not because it's such a bad placement, but in context with the rest of her chart. A hidden enemy wounded her. It is also at a critical degree. So is her AC. The ruler of her 12th, venus, is rx and in her 8th house of death. Ruler of her 8th, saturn, is also critical and part of that violent stellium in her 5th. Her IC is on a degree of violence (murder).

Neptune in the 7th can ATTRACT stalkers too. Her neptune disposits to pluto, which is conjunct the violent stellium in the 5th. venus is square all of that, close. venus square pluto can attract obsessive people. It's also square mars and saturn, tight, which can be a marker of violence if the rest of the chart indicates it, like hers does.

Her neptune is unaspected, so its given more power in the chart.

It rules her 11th house of others/groups of people, which is traditionally ruled by uranus, which is erratic.

Interestingly, now that I know he was her teacher, her venus is almost in her 9th of higher learning. Ruled by saturn which I already discussed is stressed.

Mars and venus are intercepted in her chart on her 5th/11th axis, the same houses he has the opposition of his merc/nep and in the same signs as his sun and MC.

I wonder if it'll post all of this....? I better stop and post and restart.

posted April 14, 2010 01:57 AM            

quote:

---

Diana:
I was thinking my Venus would be conj yours, but it's all the way back @ 25. I still like the way you write anyway
"A lot of people are remarking about his unaspected venus, but that can go both ways. It can actually make it stronger and out of control, like a rogue planet."
---This is interesting
"Yes, but her karma is on his saturn. It goes both ways with these two which makes it so hard to figure out."
---Diana, what would you say about synastry the woman's Karma conj the man's Mars?

---

Your venus is actually conjunct my MC.

It would depend on the chart. It can mean a lot of things. I've seen it in the chart of someone who was the father of her children, so that is one way it can manifest.

Karma is a very accurate asteroid. I almost always see it active at certain times in my astro studies.

posted April 14, 2010 02:04 AM            

Thanks so much, Diana!
When I looked at the charts I just focused on interaspects and became confused.
This is a reminder to study natals more, for sure.
And I don't know the fixed degrees but I'll be studying them now, thanks to you

1 question I have is, his n.mercury sq to saturn is 10 degs. Is that allowable? Or do you digest more the bigger picture?

Also! Something I saw that looked very jaw dropping to me, the day of the murder, transiting karma was in late libra conj her saturn and his mc. It mimics the synastry of her natal karma conj his saturn on her mc. What does this tell you? The repeat of Saturn, Karma, MC? What does asteroid Karma represent to you in natal & synastry? I don't pay attn to asteroids much so am curious.

posted April 14, 2010 02:15 AM            

The natals are always the most important charts, but people never listen to me when I try to tell them that. Everyone wants to focus on synastry, when that is just transits to the people's natals. Sigh.

The karma on her saturn and his MC was definitely chilling. Since saturn rules her 8th, that solidified it for me that something, maybe death occurred, but so did a lot of other transits at the time. Karma was also opp his sun/ic, the ruler of which is intercepted in the 8th/2nd axis -- her sun and moon, natally. Creepy.

posted April 14, 2010 02:20 AM            

'I found her chart browsing on Astrodatabnk trying to find a celeb who had a birthday like mine for that astro twin thread.'

LOL Lonake, did you find one?

posted April 14, 2010 03:04 AM            

I will list my conclusions later on, whenI have drawn them.

posted April 14, 2010 04:24 AM            

Brilliant!

And it shows that we really have to look at ALL The charts, and not just quickly skim some aspects.

Anyway, some of my conclusions are:
° houses are really important, but placements int he houses can also be expressed through projections (we tend to forget that 7th house is also the house of "enemies").

° paying attention to configurations, closed circuits. I actually saw the Grand Gross, Lonake mentioned, which got me confused, and yes it makes sense.

° also it seems that the nature of the aspects (square or trine or whatever) DOES play a role, in making qualitative differences.