posted January 26, 2011 04:48 PM            

Just to play devil's advocate on the note about wanting to be desired- I do have a feeling it has to do with lack of self esteem. I think In some ways, I feel like if someone wants me it gives me a certain power and assurance. Almost like- you could bring me down in any other way but you still want me right? Something about that has to be unhealthy! lol. I have to wonder why I even need that? A lot of times (I think this is more my Pluto in the 7th than Venus/Pluto) I'll be really attracted to someone in a powerful position- and feel a certain victory or something if this person finds me sexually appealing. Sex is interesting to me because it's so base. You can work your whole life to be in a position of power, dealing with semantics, time, etc. but sexual attraction is instant and has no logic to it.

posted January 26, 2011 05:29 PM            

it's both. It's bringing out my Venus in Pluto, and the 2 relationships I have been since Pluto crossed my DC the one synastry had a Venus conj Pluto aspect and the other synastry had Venus opposite Pluto aspect (both less than a degree). And the two boys have a lot of pluto aspects in their chart like...

Boy 1 has...
Moon and Merc in Scorpio
Pluto conj Sun, Mars, Venus, Uranus

Boy 2 has...
Pluto inconj Sun and Moon
Pluto opposite Venus
Pluto trine Mars and Merc
Pluto sextile Saturn and Neptune

Before this period I was happy with my superficial relationships and all I was attracting was non-pluto people...

Also, Pluto is bring out the worst in them in these relationships to me and it's bring out my worst. But, how do you know what your worst is if it never happens? There is a certain type of lesson about awareness. I guess there isn't a lack of intensity and transformation on both sides, eh? lol

posted January 26, 2011 05:48 PM            

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I also ALWAYS had to have the upper hand in a relationship - no matter how genuinely I liked someone, I would stuff those feelings away deep within myself and would just always be emotionally unavailable on purpose and watch them go through hoops for my affections.

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I have the Venus/Pluto opposition on my Nodes.
What you said is interesting - because I also manipulated my relationships - But I did so in a way that is almost opposite what you described.

Media advice like "he's just not that into you" and "why men love bit*ches" fly straight over my head.

People want to feel good. They want to experience pleasure physically and psychologically. I gave guys a lot - I gave them everything. I showered them in affection and sexual attention to the point where they were addicted.
I think Venus/Pluto likes to instill addictions in others. And it's very easy to become addicted to something that makes you feel good.

But it's true that - my behaviour was still a give&take.. Sometimes I took all attention away, in the same way you could take a drug away from an addict - to make them "beg" for it (figuratively).

I find my past behaviour at times twisted and highly Plutonian. I am actually embarrassed by it. I have a Mars/Neptune conj balancing this opposition and also Jupiter in Pisces.. Ultimately I want to treat everyone with respect. I am much more honest and straight forward now. Behaving otherwise is cowardly in a sense. Sometimes you have to have the courage to just be *real* - with no fears of getting hurt.

I think that's a huge Venus/Pluto lesson in life:

You cannot manipulate someone into loving you.

racole -

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The person that cares the less, has the most power

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I think.. "The person that receives the most pleasure has the least power"

Because a lot of people are out of control.. so when they enjoy something - they keep coming back (whether it is good or bad for them). They can't simply say "NO" - unless they are Plutonian themselves.

posted January 26, 2011 06:27 PM            

(...)

Of course, the exchange is rarely comfortable for anyone. There is a fundamental sense of anxiety – as with any Plutonic contact – when the untransformed energies are brought to bear. People with Venus – Pluto contacts are actually involved in an inner struggle, the people upon whom they turn their charms find it flattering but usually disconcerting and observers will very often feel ‘shut-out’ of the interaction as well. With Venus-Pluto, three is most definitely a crowd. Inevitably this creates enormous difficulties for the spouses and partners of the Venus – Pluto native, but quite possibly, with time and realisation that these intense, charged encounters do not ever ‘tip-over’ into a physical impropriety they become inured to the insecurity and jealousy which characterises the early relationship. Venus – Pluto’s intimate relationships are often something of a battleground for this and other reasons.

To understand the other reasons we have to comprehend something of the motive force behind the contact. In almost every case it boils down to an enormous anxiety about being loved. The native feels that they are in some way unlovable and inevitably this stems from a peculiar set of circumstances in childhood where the parents used affection as a means of control. It really is just that simple. Of course, there are nuances and sub-plots, but fundamentally, this is the long and short of it. There is an unconscious connection between love and survival where a lack of love is perceived in the dark of the soul to be life-threatening. Usually the parents used praise, approbation and affection as a cynical medium of control over the child and indeed the child will have picked up on the ambiguity of these feelings from the earliest age. In my experience this ambiguity can go far back, very often to the stark realisation that the child was not ever wanted at all. This spills over into the dynamic between parent and child so that the child – feeling as though they were never wanted in the first place – is insecure and actually rather desperate for reassurance. The parent unconsciously senses this anxiety and exploits it by giving and withholding love, reassurance and affection to ensure that the child meets their expectations. The Venus – Pluto child therefore learns, and learns well, that love is all about power and control, and learns to be able to switch their own emotions and affections on and off as Mother or Father did so effectively. All of this black baggage is carried into adulthood, and there it remains, subtly poisoning all future relationships until the darkness is faced and transformed once and for all.

posted January 26, 2011 06:57 PM            

When it comes to *their* direct interaction with me - My parents (and family) have always been supportive and in many ways they have been a healing influence for whatever issues I had - rather than a negative one.

BUT - When it comes to their own example - They did have a dysfunctional relationship - a love/hate relationship that was very stormy. I grew up watching this and I can see how it could have created a picture in my mind that *this* is how male-female relationships work.

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find that your relationships are a battleground, that you are arguing long into the night and every time you fight it is as though all is lost and yet somehow – against all the odds – the next day you have made up again

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LOL This was their daily life. HUGE argument - then apologies and love all around, followed by HUGE argument etc...

However - this behaviour was never directed at me. It was always directed at each other. As a child - I probably watched and copied.
Actually - in a sense it is sad because my parents would have NEVER wanted me to be anything like them or to have a relationship like theirs.. But they probably didn't realize how easy it was to overhear them and to mimic their behaviour.

All of this:

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the parents used affection as a means of control

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the parents used praise, approbation and affection as a cynical medium of control over the child and indeed the child will have picked up on the ambiguity of these feelings from the earliest age. In my experience this ambiguity can go far back, very often to the stark realisation that the child was not ever wanted at all.

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posted January 27, 2011 11:16 AM            

Wow Maira, spot on post ab Venus/Pluto. What they said about their parents saddened me. But reading the rest is making me kinda angry that the guy was playing those games. All this time I thought he didn't notice himself switching his affections on and off.. I thought he had no control over it. My heart broke every time he acted like that.. to top it off, he was my best friend, so I felt like I got hit by a mack truck. I was walking around like a love sick zombie.

You Venus/Pluto people are too much lol. :P

posted January 27, 2011 01:50 PM            

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Originally posted by maira:
I feel it's for power also. However, if we strip it down to basics, and the only human emotions are fear and love, it's definitely something that originates from fear.

BB, you're welcome, I pretty much identify with what's in that text (my stellium is trine neptune, so maybe that's why I'm able to see what I'm doing wrong)

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Humans have a whole range of emotions, desire for power does not only come from fear, in his book Power and innocence Rollo May talks about how our perceptions of power have been corrupted. Power itself is not bad neither is the desire to possess it. People have been taught to fear the power of the self and as a result corruption can take hold.

Pluto is always aware of the power in any given situation, it's how one chooses to use this knowledge that counts.

posted January 27, 2011 02:14 PM            

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Originally posted by dysfunctionalmystic:
without venus/pluto we would have some very superficial relationships, venus/ pluto people serve a purpose for the collective because when anyone has a transit from pluto to natal venus we are there to play a part for that person and the same goes for all outer planet people.

I'm sure life would be so much easier if all those hidden undercurrents didn't exist...but they do..and it ain't just natal venus./pluto that have hidden stuff going on.

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posted January 27, 2011 03:09 PM            

Semi-squares have all of the tension of the square, magnified by the fact that there is no natural resolution. The gift of a square is that they are about something specific to the two planets involved and that they are joined by quadruplicity–houses or signs that are in the same family. There’s a way out, eventually. Semi-squares are about to explode all the time, are erratic, are irritating to live with, and are often only resolved when a transiting or progressed planet makes an aspect to one of the planets, allowing the tension to spill out and resolve itself.

My understanding of quincunxes is that they function on kind of an unconscious level in terms of resolution. Consciously I think there's a resistance to them- the energies are super tense and don't want to interact but somewhere down the line, perhaps when you've stopped obsessing about them- they resolve themselves? I'm not totally sure though, I'm going by what I've read, I don't have any quincunxes in my chart. My best friend though, has Venus/Pluto quincunx and I've noticed she tends to "disown" the kind of sexual energy and interest in being desireable that we've been talking about. Sometimes she seems so innocent and girly as if she'd never even heard of sex. I remember someone else on this board also talking about this aspect contributing to their being scared of sexuality.

posted January 27, 2011 03:17 PM            

Does anyone know?