posted April 05, 2011 11:09 AM            

I don't have her kids charts - but sally had one failed suicide at 18. The other thing is I don't know their birth order, doesn't one school of thought attribute the first child to the 5th and then the rest elsewhere or is that just horary? My knowledge on traditional astro is limited so I'm unsure on that.
I don't know much about signs and reducing fertility either other than what is contained in planting guides lol

Choc - I agree

IQ - if linda did have nep on the asc she would have had saturn in the 3rd and merc in taurus to add stability to her writing, the 1st house is appearance and personality, it's not going to make a person confused at all..there would need to be aspects to mercury for that at the very least.

posted April 05, 2011 11:49 AM            

quote:

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Happy Birthday WingedLeo!

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posted April 05, 2011 06:41 PM            

The source notes at ADB go like this: A person, "LMR", says another person, "Kathleen Johnson", quotes LINDA HERSELF that April 10, 1925 is her date of birth. Then another person, "Frank C. Clifford", calls up the record bureau and they CONFIRM the date. From there, "LMR" rectifies a chart deducted from another statement she made of having Neptune on Asc. Thus Leo Rising.

BUT, here in the thread we bring up her ALSO saying she's a double or triple Aries with a Libra planet, which, can only be taken from April 9, 1925 (6am-ish).

posted April 06, 2011 01:54 AM            

Wherever saturn is placed indicates the lessons you have to learn. According to the 10 April chart, I am not surprised to see that Linda has saturn in 3rd. Saturn gives discipline to any planet and house it touches. Moon conjunct Saturn in 3rd gives Linda the emotional and mention discipline to succeed in her writing. I know two people with Saturn in 10th and they are highly focused on their career. One of them has Moon conjunct Saturn, the other Sun conjunct Saturn.

I know one excellent example of a person with Sun, Uranus and Mars, in 9th who HATES travelling anywhere outside their comfort zone - my mother. She hates travelling, period. She hated it in youth and she hates it now. She would rather stay at home, safe in her own country, than explore some exotic place faraway. My sister also has Sun in 9th and she enjoys travelling for leisure (most of the younger generation do) but only to places that are "clean" and "developed". Despite having Sun in 9th, she is not an adventurer at heart. On the contrary, I know people who do NOT have Sun in 9th who are more adventurous and enjoy travelling the world.

posted April 06, 2011 04:31 AM            

I have analyzed dozens of Leo Rising as well as Aries Rising. Even you can check the faces/structure:

Leo Rising Females: Morgan Fairchild, Jerry Hall, Brigette Nielsen, Faye Dunaway, Glenn CLose, Anna Nicole Smith, Lisa Marie Presley, Kate Hudson, Marlyn Monroe, Uma Thurman, Lucille Ball.

Aries Rising: Barbara Streisand, Mary Tyler Moore, Joan Rivers, Valerie Perrine, Barbara Hershey, Carol Burnett, Lena Horne, Helen Reddy, Michelle Lee, Susan St James.

Look at their pics aged 35-45 range, and look at Linda's picture on the back cover of "Sun Signs". Or type Linda Goodman without quotes in images.google.com, see the 5th picture on the first row. She looks like a cousin of all the Aries women I listed when they were in that age group, especially the black and white photos.

Compare Linda's face pattern with the above, and then decide HONESTLY who she resembles more. Uma Thurman or Lena Horne?
Jerry Hall or Barbara Streisand?
Marlyn Monroe or Mary Tyler Moore?
Lucille Ball or Michelle Lee?
Anna Nicole Smith or Helen Reddy?
Glenn Close or Barbara Hershey?
Morgan Fairchild or Joan Rivers?

posted April 07, 2011 01:06 AM            

Personally, I don't put much stock in ascendant and appearance. Alot of it depend on genetics. I mean, an Asian Leo Riser would look very different than a caucasian Leo riser. But if you insist... I've looked at some of the pictures of the celebrities you mentioned and to be very honest, most of them don't look like Linda at all (i've looked at more than one picture of her and others to give a more accurate assessment). But I do think her nostrils flare out in the same manner as Uma Thurman. It's not apparent in the black and white picture because of the way her face is angled but it's obvious, especially in this picture.

Reminds me of Justin Timberlake's nose too.

posted April 07, 2011 03:12 AM            

Mary Tyler Moore & Carol Burnett have Pisces Asc
.
.
.
The fact is that we'll never know because we weren't there.

posted April 07, 2011 04:56 AM            

Look at the same age group black and white photos of those confirmed with Aries Rising.

As Lonake has mentioned, even some of the documented celebrities also have Ascendant mistakes. Now how can a hearsay based rectification from one person become a basis of fact when a closer person like Aselzion rubbishes that hearsay?

posted April 07, 2011 05:10 AM            

quote:

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an Asian Leo Riser would look very different than a caucasian Leo riser

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Superficially, yes the individual of asian descent may not have golden blonde hair, but you have to look at the architecture of the individual.

A Leo Asc, irrelevant of their racial background is likely to have a 'mane' of hair - be it kinky and dark or straight and blonde.

They are also likely to have that almost triangular shape of the lips (think feline mouths), broad cheeckbones and faces on the square, solid side.

They would tend to medium, well muscled builds and skin tones that have an underlying 'glow'.

I really think limiting physical description to race is being shortsighted, because diversity of physical features exists within all races - it is only if one has not had enough exposure that one believe 'all people from asia look the same'.

They surely do not, and astrological signatures are just as evident in their populations as they are in the 'European'. It is too bad that most western astrology books focus so much on describing 'European' features, such as 'Aries = red tinge to hair' 'Pisces = blue green eyes' etc.

posted April 07, 2011 09:07 AM            

Will Venus round off features for all races?

And how can Venus round off features when according to you Ascendant has no influence whatsoever on ascertaining a person's appearance ?

When Ascendant is so insignificant, how can Venus have any consideration?

More General Points:
====================
[Edited the point on Kathleen Johnson, I thought she was Kathleen Mcgowan who had only spoken to Linda on phone].

I have an official witness as well: Bibi Di Angelo, who is very much a member here for many years and must be enjoying all the astrological rationalizations in favor of the Leo Ascendant. It helps us erase all wrong approaches. In fact, this thread will show newbies the right way versus the wrong way in application of House Systems and Transits.

Here is Bibi Di Angelo's testimony: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000322.html

Excerpts:
"
For those who had posted a desire to know Linda's chart, I feel guided to share you the information Linda provided to me herself (since this forum has a special love for Linda): April 9, 1925, at 6:15 AM EST, Parkersburg, WVA. Linda had an Aries rising at 22 degrees 58. Her Sun, Venus and Uranus were all in her the 12th house. We thought it interesting that my Sun, Venus and Node were all in my 12th house. Thus, all my years of working in the government in Washington, D.C.; as well as, working behind the scenes in Hollywood for years. Linda's birth name: Mary Alice Kemery. "

" The last time Linda gave me a bear hug, in her bare feet, we talked about her transits/cycles for the upcoming Christmas. "

"I still advise and counsel the clients that Linda asked me take care of upon her time in need. Since I had the MASTER of astrology to ask questions, I asked her very specific questions that I thought might be possible to do a niche need for entertainment professionals."

"I said Linda was my girlfriend because that is what she called me."

"I am not embarrassed to say that I am still moved to tears almost every time I discuss her with people"

A person who knew Linda this closely.

Whose testimony will you take?

How many of the Leo Rising camp now wants to call Bibi Di Angelo a liar?

------------------
http://tamsoft.co.in/articles.html

posted April 07, 2011 09:55 AM            

To me the ascendant is the "self" that we're comfortable with presenting to the world at large, our instinctive behavior on the surface. It may also represent our values and inclinations, depending on other chart factors of course. Personally, I find it easier to guess someone's ascendant in person than in photos, which can be deceiving.

Redstar: There's no denying that facial characteristics vary in every race. And I certainly do not believe that 'all asians look the same'. I am asian, born and raised in Asia. I see different types of asians - dark-skinned, light-skinned, big eyes, small eyes, you name it - everyday. And I still find it extremely hard to guess someone's ascendant based on physical appearance only. It is however easier to guess from their behavior.

As for physical characteristics of Leo Rising. I can use my niece as an example.

A 'mane' of hair - do you mean thick hair? If so, no, she doesn't have a 'mane' of hair. I have more mane than she does and I ain't a Leo riser.

Triangular lips - nope.

Broad cheekbones - nope, she doesn't have prominent cheekbones. Her face shape is round and cheeks full.

Medium, well-muscled build - nope, she's on the big side for her age. She's tall like her father, who is a Libra rising.

Skin tone that has an underlying 'glow' - I would say "yes" to this. She has a tanned and ruddy complexion, very healthy-looking!

That's 4 out of 5 "no" to the checklist for Leo rising.

posted April 07, 2011 10:17 AM            

Fiona - if she has a round face shape then she has broad cheekbones. Broad is not the same as high.

A 'mane' does not refer to thickness, but to the overall quality - you can have fine hair and still it might lay and behave in such a manner that it will make people describe it as 'mane-like'.

I wasn't talking about such obvious features as small or large eyes, but the more subtle architectural qualities present in a face or body structure.

Well muscled but out of shape (no muscle tone) = fleshiness, or largeness as you so eloquently put it.

Ascendant discernment seems to be a subtle art, and I by no means consider myself a master of it.
But I have seen how well it works for astrologers who are knowledgeable in perceiving the physical subtleties present in a population, and subsequently can easily see the planet/sign signatures in individuals. Its scary accurate.

posted April 07, 2011 10:22 AM            

All the points/counterpoints expressed in such a gracious and respectful manner!

posted April 07, 2011 11:03 AM            

After looking at the transits, it appears that the Aries Ascendant chart COULD definitely indicate "passing over"...

With Pluto transiting the 8th house, a semi-square to the midheaven, followed by negative Neptune and Uranus transits to Sun and Moon.

The transits to the Leo Ascendant chart did not look or "feel" like the chart of someone who would pass away, or encounter poor health, at all.

So, for that fact alone, I would consider that the Aries Ascendant on April 9th, 1925 could be an accurate birth chart.

It is unfortunate, because much of the age of "sprituality" encourages so much changing of personal information - one's birth name, lifestyle, esoteric communicating, birth chart? - for the sake of influencing the "energies" or other's perceptions - that there is a serious lack of integrity in communication, and claimed facts.

You almost can't take anyone's word for it!

posted April 07, 2011 11:24 AM            

DON'T twist my words

I said it was pointless, someone else has already pointed out that behaviour is a more likely signpost for the asc rather than pictures and that I agree with.