posted May 10, 2011 02:59 PM            

Sorry, couldn't help it. I've an awful sense of humor

It is very hard to determine something based on the chart alone. I strongly believe in that environment can make or break two people with exactly the same chart, too. And, of course, if by chance it happens that your chart suggests there's a little sociopath hiding in you, it doesn't mean you become one if you have learned to be empathic thanks to a very secure and loving environment...

posted May 10, 2011 03:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
I disagree that everything is in the chart. The chart shows potential in either direction. The choices we make in relation to our environment can determine where we fall along that astrological scale. Astrology is a good tool in which to guage likely issues and problems that need to be worked through, but there's more to being a sociopath than indicators in a birth chart. That's fatalistic in thinking, and it is exactly what great Astrologers like Sydney Omar (one of Linda's teachers) warn against. It's as if you are saying to the person who has a newborn baby that their child is going to be a sociopath. Not so. Astrology can be used by said parents to see where their child will struggle and provide more attention there to foster Growth (for example, more hugging and positive reinforcement). Just my opinion. We all have one. But I feel Astrology is only an indicator of possibilities. We always have our box of Free-Will Legos to play with, and we can all build anything we want out of them, if we believe we can. We are only limited by what we feel is possible and impossible. Astrology is a Map. Astrology is our individual Guide. But Astrology does not take away our choices. We can fall anywhere on the Grid that is our Celestial Map, and that grid has a very wide latitude.

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Oh, great post Randall! I misinterpreted what you said.

posted May 10, 2011 03:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Yes, exactly what Ami said. Exactly. You can see the challenges. And challenges can create a hero...or a monster. Just like too many Trines can create a lazy good-for-nothing who wastes all of that positive influence. The thing about Astrology is that it is an amazing tool to use once we already know a problem exists. Yung used it well with his psychology patients. But to, for instance, take 100 charts and pick out the sociopath from a chart alone would be a daunting task to say the least. Take Hitler, for example. I have read that according to his powerful chart, he could have done great things. Linda spoke of this also in Star Signs. Was he fated to be the most evil man who ever lived? Of course not. He chose to use his power to harm instead of to heal. We can go back now and point out all of the bad things in his Natal, but looking at the charts of 100 random people, I doubt any Astrologer could have predicted his to be profoundly worse than the 99 others. I do think it's great to look at charts and dissect them for clues to behavior, and "after-the-fact," yes, it is amazingly accurate to go back and see why and how. But I try not to forget Free-Will in the equation and the environment. Just one example--If I am abused as a child, I might grow up to be an abuser myself. Chances are, I will. And that being indicated within my chart can be very intricate and complex. But I may also choose to be a champion against child abuse due to what happened to me and help hundreds or thousands of children...and yes, with the same chart. Astrology is a good predictor, but it's not a perfect one. Astrology is a blend of both science and art, and Free-Will is always that wild card that turns everything on its head.

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My opinion of this, is that we should be mindful that Hitler (and others) didn't start out motivated by 'evil' itself, you can't see that in someone's chart... what you can see, perhaps, is a tendency to be greedy, or jealous, or controlling, or intolerant of weakness, or selfish, vain etc. Those traits will very likely be in that person's nature but with the right upbringing, schooling, or other balancing influences in their life, they could learn to control them. In cases where someone does make themselves truly evil, they were obviously able to continue unchecked.

Just my opinion..

posted May 10, 2011 03:24 PM            

But I think I disagree about change of the parents in the birth chart. It is my opinion that when it comes to upbringing, the natal shows a subjective perception of reality. For instance, a moon in Scorpio (not the finest example, but just to illustrate) may perceive and internalize the mother as manipulative and so on, even though she is not like that in objective reality.

Am I making any sense? Would progressions indicate this kind of change - for example, would a moon in Gemini progressed to a moon in Cancer indicate a different perception of the mother?

posted May 10, 2011 03:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Just to add another wrinkle lol
There are thousands of Hitlers alive now .There have been thousands alive at any time in history.
It was the SOCIETY which allowed Hitler to rise more than his individual chart features.

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Well, more specifically the boycott that was raised on Germany at the time and the disgruntlement (sp?) that it brought for the people. He promised better times so they followed him... If he were alive today, he'd probably hop on the "recession" bandwagon. Although I doubt that in this day and age, people would blindly follow him...

Then again, it wouldn't be the first time that people's general behaviour would surprise me. About a year ago, I wondered if someone would do that Milgram experiment again, would it give the same results. I thought it wouldn't, but only days later there was an article that they have done that experiment again and even roughly 40 years after the first one, and it being common knowledge, people were surprised to find that it produced roughly the same results as before. Makes you wonder.

I do suspect that people such as Hitler would probably have gotten into power in this day and age too, but just with a different soap box. If their chart allows it. But it certainly has to be something that is disgruntling the people. As a politician, you would have to be able to pick up on that, and if you can't, you may have Hitler's almost exact same chart, you probably won't get elected as chancellor

Somehow I imagine that Hitler would have done less damage as a painter, though

There's a few more quite interesting things that can be said about Hitler, but I kind of suspect he wasn't a sociopath... So sorry for the long and tedious off-topic

posted May 10, 2011 03:41 PM            

It doesn't matter how many good qualities a person has, if they choose to be bad - they're bad!

posted May 10, 2011 03:43 PM            

If someone hurts someone else on purpose, that has nothing to do with my own subjective reactions to that - it has to do with the PERSON.

posted May 10, 2011 03:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PlutoSquared:
I also don't think that life is so subjective...

If someone hurts someone else on purpose, that has nothing to do with my own subjective reactions to that - it has to do with the PERSON.

That person is choosing to hurt someone else's feelings, body, mind, etc. A person's motivations and behavior defines them.

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Oh, no, of course not! I was talking about how we perceive our parental figures in childhood, that's it. An emotionally absent father may not have been that absent, but he may not have met the requirements that particular infant needed at the time.

posted May 10, 2011 03:55 PM            

I like your distinctions between the Absolute and Material world...

posted May 10, 2011 05:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Yeah, life is all about our perceptions of reality--from the chair I am sitting in (that looks as it does and feels as it does to my touch but in reality is nothing more than open empty space between countless tiny atoms and vibrating energy that triggers the form "chair" to my brain) to the way we each perceive the unique gifts and challenges represented by another person's chart and reflected in their actions and personalities that trigger those perceptions within us...whether true or not. Quite!

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I have been thinking about this all day. I want to come back and write about it.
It reminds me of the quote---The Seeing Eye alters all " or something like that lol
It is saying that one's perception IS what makes reality.
I have been thinking of that in terms of ego.
One's ego alters ALL.If one is insecure,life appears one way.
If one is confident,life is a whole other way.
It is not LIFE which changes but one's eyes.

posted May 10, 2011 07:37 PM            

anyways, this is kind of like, the outside is 90% and the inside is 10 percent...the counter argument

would kind of be faith, or spirituality which makes a difference by an unseen force!

anyways the idea of the architecture today is to make someone feel like they are always being watched for the security of the group....

posted May 10, 2011 09:27 PM            

I think IQ mentioned Mars/Pluto... They can be very aggressive, but I'm not sure if that's all you need to be a sociopath.

All I know is - the person I've had in my life who is by far the most mentally ill person I have ever come across - has the following afflictions:

-- Sun (Pisces) square Neptune (Capricorn) -- (orb: 3 - out of sign)

-- Moon (Pisces) square Uranus & Ascendant (Sagittarius)

-- Venus (Aries - detriment) - Retrograde

-- T-square:
Mars (Taurus - detriment) - opposite Pluto (Scorpio- - dignified) -- squaring Jupiter (Aquarius).

posted May 11, 2011 04:38 AM            

Mentoring such kids before their Saturn return is the only solution.