posted December 30, 2012 08:11 AM              

"As others have said, I also appreciate your disciplined and careful habits in presenting your ideas around here. Very helpful and worthwhile."
Thank you.

"I am wondering how you utilize these angles, in such an analysis."
I am still working on this.
I`ve had a workable system once, but somehow it got lost. *sighs*
Damn computer crashes!

"My MC conj PLUTO
Her IC in Scorpio"
Yes. That is how I would do it as well. Keep in mind though that the IC-MC combination has more to do with roots, family, and a certain purposedness of the relationship. Is it going anywhere? Do we have a common way (in an earthly sense; for the spriitual path I`d look atthe nodal axis predominantly)?
It doesn´t really say anything about attraction like ASC-DESC does, but more shows how you can synchronize your perception on life and your long range goals.
I feel it is really at this point that many great loves shatter. They may have the attraction, the romance and everything, but if they have very varied ideas about how their life should be, it can get really difficult.

"Ruler of her ASC (Virgo) is Mercury,
Ruler of my DSC (Gemini) is Mercury."
Yes, but with Venus and Mercury you need to still keep in mind that a Virgo-Mercury is different from a Gemini-Mercury.

"It seems to cast quite a wide net if you also include the aspects that dispositors make, such as the example in the Paul-Joanne synastry you gave..."
Yes. I am not sure I really would use the dispositors that much nowadays. Though I don`t know.
At least in my case they do seem to be quite important.

I have a Sag-stellium, including Sun and Mercury in conjunction.
There is this guy who has his Sun, MOon and MC conjunct my Sun and Mercury.
Interestingly my dispositor of this bunch is Jupiter on 11 Pisces.
His dispositor is Jupiter on 11 Virgo.
And that Pisces-Virgo- opposition in the background really is very descriptive of our differences.
It is reflected in his Mercury conjunct my Neptune exactly and being square this Jupiter-Jupiter-opposition exact.
I guess you could summarize our difference really like this - he is Mercury, I am Neptune.
Not very helpful for any kind of clear communication though.

"You are saying here that the dispositor of his Venus is in Scorpio, and opposing Pluto?"
Yes.

"I wonder if you couldn't find similar connections using the house rulers of the houses the planets are in, rather than dispositors of the planets. I wonder how that differs?"
Personally I would give predominance to the houserulers and connections as a matter of fact. The dispositors might be a subtle influence. LIke in my case how I am expressing my Sagittarius-traits is quite a bit Neptunian. Not that I need any more Jupiter-Neptune in my chart. (they are in mutual reception; Neptune sits on ASC and squares ASC-ruler Jupiter in Pisces. There is enough of Jupiter-Neptune in my chart without any dispositors).

However the dispositors become interesting if I consider them in relation to my moon and Venus.
Moon in Aquarius - Uranus in Scorpio
Venus in Capricorn - Saturn in Cancer

I definitely can see that. Stephen Arroyo called that "overtones" of a planet, though he used the traditional planets as dispositors. (well in this case Saturn in Cancer would disposit my MOon AND Venus, and being in mutual reception with my Moon - still makes a whole lot of sense in my chart).

"My Venus in 1st house
Her Mars dispositor in 1st house"
Theoretically this would be relevant as well.
BUT my beef with this theory of mine is, that it opens up too many potential connections, which might be quite arbitrary in the end.
There needs to be a priority list.

From nowadays point of view I would give top priority to:

° planets or houserulers or angles in sign
° mentioned objects in conjunction with other planets
° mentioned objects in houses

The other aspects would come into play as well, but with less strength. The reason for this is that the conjunction is not really an aspect, but denotes two objects being at the same place, merging and thus become one.

"Are you including Jupiter-Saturn as a yin/yang pair, as far as the "complementing" goes? I don't see examples of it it what you give."
Yes. Jupiter is the principle of expansion, and SAturn is the priniciple of contraction. They are relevant more in terms of social relations though.
As a matter of fact I would really only treat the inner planets and angles and relationship oriented houses as YIN/YANG.
The others might be important in a general sense, but most people want to know about relationships, and for these Sun, Moon, Venus, Mars and according houses are of most importance.
Maybe I`d consider putting Moon-Saturn here as well.
Mercury-Jupiter might be important in terms of how people can communicate with each other, but they are pretty a-sexual, at least in astrology.

As a matter of fact I often think that there might be actually three polarities in a chart, the usual masculine and feminine planets of course.
but then we have Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces, Gemini, Virgo (ruled by Jupiter and Saturn traditionally plus Uranus and Neptune) and though they of course are also grouped into masculine and feminine, they don´t seem to be JUST AS feminine/masculine as ARies, Taurus, Cancer, Leo, Libra and Scorpio to me.

of course Pisces can be extremely feminine and so on. But it just seems like there is something "on top of that" there, a more mental or even intellectual orientation, something that transcendents the strictly personal gender-orientation. I guess it has to do with the other signs being ruled by Sun, Moon, Venus and Mars.

Sorry I am rambling again.

posted December 30, 2012 08:32 AM              

I used to think they are interchangeable for many years. But just recently I am not so sure anymore. At least not on the same level as planets in sign or even in conjunction with a corresponding planet.

posted January 02, 2013 12:19 PM            

Thank you for such a reply! What you share here is honestly a big part of what makes this site worthwhile for me, as well as for others. So, please don't apologize for “rambling.”

(Here's some rambling of my own...) :

I'd like to respond to more of your reply, but for now... Wow--that Neptune-Mercury synastry you have is something. Unbelievably, I am noticing I also have my NEPTUNE conj another's MERCURY (1.5 MINUTES) as unfortunately our closest aspect, in a current synastry with what I perceive as a Karmic relationship to heal. Ugh...

Communication Issues? You have no idea!

It was very hard for me to deal with, as I took it quite personally, due to my strong feelings for her. ...From the very beginning, bizarre communication problems, involving her sending me “predictive” texts from her phone, that were absolute gibberish; such that I got annoyed and told her about it, wondering why she'd send messages without reading them first. Me sending her emails that she never got, though I know I sent them to the email address she gave me. Me calling and leaving message to confirm us going to a carnival, and her never getting the message, later saying there was something wrong with her phone. As well, the Neptune transit that is currently squaring my Neptune AND Saturn is therefore also squaring her Mercury, and conjunct her DSC. Unreal.

Honestly, doesn't this just sound like someone who is trying to blow me off?? Despite all this, we have a connection that we both sense. For me, as usual, I “see” the past life reasons for the strong reaction I had toward her. For her, she doesn't understand why she feels towards me in the way she does. ...For me, I "see" the Karmic picture, and the healing opportunity for myself. For her, her Virgo Ascendant is trying to figure out in practical ways “why” she is drawn to me. ( ...Ugh. Yes--I really have problems with Virgo as well. Squaring my Sag Sun/Jup/Asc. As well, my Mars in Pisces opposes. My Sun in 12th...)

There is so much more interesting synastry, that tells the story, continued from the "past." Maybe I'll try to relate it another time. ...Such a challenge.

Just about every area of my life is now up in the air. ...You know, our charts are similar in some ways. We have our MC/IC axis conjunct, and I saw you mention in a thread elsewhere you felt you were experiencing some effect from URANUS currently hitting your IC, in your relationship with your parents, I think.

Well, I'll tell you... This Uranus hitting my IC has been a textbook-case of it.

...September 2011, I left my previous residence (and relationship) where I'd been for five years, to go suddenly to Florida, to take care of my mother, who was having major surgery. Lived with her for about six months. Managed to have some blow-ups with her, in which she told me EXACTLY how she felt I was wasting my life, etc.; and I was able to realize, and tell her, "Mom--I really don't give a sh*t what you think of my life. I'm okay with myself." Such a breakthrough for me. Ha.

...Came back north to no relationship and no place to live. Have been living in a friend's extra apartment since then. Now, he is coming back and will need the apartment, I think. My mother's health and living situation is suddenly tenuous again, and I am having to give up my life to go help her. I thought it would again be for an extended time, so I quit my job...but it seems the situation is changing day-by-day, and my brother and I may be moving her up North near us, ASAP.

...Along with people (such as the above mentioned woman) coming into my life, triggering all kinds of emotions and thoughts to heal, regarding our Karmic relationships, I am just whipped.

As well, Neptune squaring my natal Neptune-Saturn opposition is somewhat of a "midlife crisis," indeed. I have no idea what is next in my life. I feel a great need to let go of previous ways of perceiving life, but it is hard to have faith, when there are so many unknowns in my life right now. ...I guess that is the best time to learn true faith, though.

So, how's THAT for a ramble?

ANYWAYYY... I am finding it hard to focus on making thoughtful, serious, mental replies here lately. Or is that just the usual abundance of Sagittarius in me? ...How DO you do it? I do see, through looking at my own dispositors, which I had never considered before reading your post here, that I have six of my dispositors in Sag, since I have Jupiter itself in Sag.

In a Sagittarian vein, I will amuse you with the description on the back of a romance novel I came across, that has a main character named Ceridwen:

From The Chalice and the Blade, by Glenna McReynolds:

"In a land of forbidding castles, sacred prophecies, and unholy betrayals, mystery surrounds the one woman who holds the key to an ancient legacy. She is Ceridwen, an orphan unaware of her immense power--until fate leads her from a secluded abbey into the tower of a feared sorcerer. ..."

(And she and the sorcerer hook up romantically, and go on to fight battles against their foes... The End.)

posted July 15, 2013 03:09 PM            

1. Mirroring

Sun/Moon level

His Sun in Aries
My Sun trine Mars
His Sun trine Mars
His Sun square Neptune
My Sun square Neptune

His Moon square Pluto
My Moon square Pluto
His Moon sextile Mars
My Moon sextile Mars

Mercury level

His Mercury in Aries
My Mercury trine Mars

Venus/Mars level

His Venus in Pisces
My Venus square Neptune
His Venus sextile Jupiter
My Venus sextile Jupiter
His Venus trine Saturn
My Venus square Saturn
His Venus square Uranus
My Venus square Uranus

His Mars in Scorpio
My Mars quincunx Pluto
His Mars trine Sun
My Mars trine Sun
His Mars sextile Moon
My Mars sextile Moon

Didn't know where to put it, put it here.
We both have Saturn in our 5th house.

2) Complementing

His Sun in 11th house
My Moon in 11th house

His Sun trine Mars
My Moon sextile Mars
His Sun square Jupiter
My Moon conjunct Jupiter
His Sun square Neptune
My Moon quincunx Neptune

My Sun conjunct Mercury
His Moon square Mercury
My Sun square Saturn
His Moon in Capricorn
My Sun trine Mars
His Moon sextile Mars

Venus - Mars level

His Venus in 10th house
My Mars in 10th house
His Venus sextile Jupiter
My Mars sextile Jupiter
His Mars trine Sun
My Venus conjunct Sun
His Mars sextile Moon
My Venus sextile Moon

Synastry & Composite

1. Sun - Mars - Sun trine Mars in composite
2. Sun - Neptune -
My Neptune square his Sun
Sun conjunct Neptune in composite
3. Moon - Pluto
Moon conjunct Pluto in composite
4. Moon - Mars
Moon sextile Mars in composite
5. Sun - Moon - Jupiter
My Jupiter trine his Sun
His Jupiter quincunx my Moon
6. Sun - Moon - Neptune
My Neptune square his Sun
Sun conjunct Neptune in composite
Moon sextile Neptune in composite
7. Sun - Moon - Saturn
His Saturn square my Moon
8. Venus - Mars - Jupiter
His Jupiter square my Venus
His Jupiter quincunx my Mars
Jupiter sextile Venus in composite
9. Venus - Uranus
His Uranus sextile my Venus
Venus conjunct Uranus in composite

posted July 16, 2013 04:26 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Selene:
I don't know what dispositors are, so i left them out.

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Dispositors are the planets that rule the sign, and they shape the experience of the sign. This is especially important if you have a Stellium involving personal planets in one sign, or disposited by the same planets (for example Virgo and Gemini, or Libra and Taurus).
it also is quite illuminating to see where the dispositors of Sun and Moon are.

it is not always making a big difference; however in my own case it is of interest, as I have Sun, Mercury, Mars, Nn and ASC in Sagittarius - so their dispositor Jupiter becomes interesting to observe in my chart.
Even more so as Jupiter is in mutual reception with Neptune and squaring Neptune on the ASC.

It`s also interesting in my chart to note that I have all these fire planets plus Moon in Aquarius and Venus in Capricorn, but ALL dispositors of personal planets and ASC are in water signs, in all three water signs.

Jupiter, dispositor of Sun, Mercury, Mars and ASC, in Pisces.
Saturn, dispositor of Venus, in Cancer
Uranus, dispositor of Moon, in Scorpio.

It adds another dimension and colours the expression of the more overt sign-energies.

I once had a thread on this as well. lol
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/204587.html

Of course it just one nuance, one factor to observe, and you can`t base a whole interpretation on it, but it makes the interpretation "rounder".
And btw I am pretty sure you will notice a certain interconnection between Sun and Moon placements and their dispositors, and probably also Venus and Mars, in romantic relationships, friendships or even family relationships.

For example:
my Moon-dispositor is conjunct my Mum`s Sun and opposes my Dads Moon.

posted July 16, 2013 11:44 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Dispositors are the planets that rule the sign, and they shape the experience of the sign. This is especially important if you have a Stellium involving personal planets in one sign, or disposited by the same planets (for example Virgo and Gemini, or Libra and Taurus).
it also is quite illuminating to see where the dispositors of Sun and Moon are.

it is not always making a big difference; however in my own case it is of interest, as I have Sun, Mercury, Mars, Nn and ASC in Sagittarius - so their dispositor Jupiter becomes interesting to observe in my chart.
Even more so as Jupiter is in mutual reception with Neptune and squaring Neptune on the ASC.

It`s also interesting in my chart to note that I have all these fire planets plus Moon in Aquarius and Venus in Capricorn, but ALL dispositors of personal planets and ASC are in water signs, in all three water signs.

Jupiter, dispositor of Sun, Mercury, Mars and ASC, in Pisces.
Saturn, dispositor of Venus, in Cancer
Uranus, dispositor of Moon, in Scorpio.

It adds another dimension and colours the expression of the more overt sign-energies.

I once had a thread on this as well. lol
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/204587.html

Of course it just one nuance, one factor to observe, and you can`t base a whole interpretation on it, but it makes the interpretation "rounder".
And btw I am pretty sure you will notice a certain interconnection between Sun and Moon placements and their dispositors, and probably also Venus and Mars, in romantic relationships, friendships or even family relationships.

For example:
my Moon-dispositor is conjunct my Mum`s Sun and opposes my Dads Moon.

---

Thanks!

posted July 16, 2013 03:16 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by Selene:
Thanks!

So if i understood correctly, then it kinda explains, why i am actually so Libra! Yes, I do have Sun, Mercury and Venus in Libra. But then also the dispositor of my ASC, MC and Mars is Mercury, which is also in Libra, my Moon and Jupiter is in Leo, that makes Sun their dispositor and it's also in Libra!

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posted July 16, 2013 03:17 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
Aspects seem to only show part of the picture.

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posted December 04, 2013 08:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by peachbeigeblue:
Since I'm a Leo, I first read this as "Mirrors and Compliments" and thought "my kind of thread"

Ugh

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HAHAHAHA! Love it!

posted December 05, 2013 05:20 AM            

so does it work if it's
her: sun in 8th house
him: moon opposite pluto

posted December 05, 2013 09:41 AM            

I used to say that one friend of mine is one of the persons I know that I have the best conversations because we can understand easily each other:

he: mercury in scorpio/ I: mercury in 8th house

he: moon in scorpio/ I: moon square pluto

he: sag rising/ I: uranus in sag (chart ruler)

he: IC in aqua/ I: moon in aqua

And I could go on with this about other people in my life too. So, if you don't mind I would like to ask something:

what the difference between, for example, these placements:

- venus 8th house
-venus in scorpio
-venus/pluto (square, conjunction,opp)

?

posted December 05, 2013 09:58 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by peachbeigeblue:
Since I'm a Leo, I first read this as "Mirrors and Compliments" and thought "my kind of thread"

Ugh

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posted December 05, 2013 01:01 PM            

I had asked about something similar here a while ago, but didn't get many replies. Mainly I was interested in the fact that my husband and I both have sun sextile moon. I wondered if other sun-sextile-moon people seek each other out, and do sun-square-moon people gravitate to each other, too? And so on, along those lines.

Mirroring with my husband (in addition to sun sextile moon):

I'm a singleton sun
He's a Leo sun

My Cap sun ruled by, and in mutual reception with, Saturn.
His Leo sun is exactly trine Saturn.

His Libra moon is ruled by Venus
My Pisces moon is disposited by Neptune (which is conjunct Venus in my chart)

I have Mercury trine Pluto
He has Mercury conjunct Pluto

We both have Mercury sextile Neptune

His Virgo Venus conjunct and disposited by Mercury
My Sag Venus sextile and parallel to Mercury

His Venus square Saturn
My Venus trine Saturn

His Venus tightly semisextile Uranus: Venus-Uranus midpoint squaring his nodal axis
My Venus exactly semisextile Uranus: Venus-Uranus midpoint conjunct my NN

Same nodal axis, 5 degree orb

His Mars conjunct Pluto
My Mars trine Pluto

Jupiter is my dominant planet
His Jupiter is a singleton

There's probably more

posted December 14, 2013 12:41 AM            

I'm curious to see if these aspects considered "mirroring" or "complementary" in terms of yin/yang energies?

The couple below is Person A who is my boyfriend while Person B is indicating me.

Person A
His sun in Aquarius dispositor
His sun square uranus natally while squaring Person B's uranus
Sun trine pluto
Sun sextile neptune(wide orb)

Person B
Her moon in Aquarius dispositor
Her moon square uranus natally while squaring Person A's uranus
Moon trine pluto
Moon sextile neptune(wide orb)

The next couple below are my lovely friends

Person 1
Sun conjunct pluto
Moon square saturn
His moon dispositor is Taurus
His moon trine Person 2's venus
His sun sextile neptune

posted May 09, 2014 11:28 AM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I was thinking some more about the role that natal patterns play in relationships even before the synastric interaspects come into play.

I termed these natal patterns "mirrors", if it was the same pattern, and "complements" if complementary (Yin-Yang-planets) were coupled with the same planet.

For this I compared planets- signs- aspects, but left out the houses in a mix.

so a natal pattern can look like this:
chart A:
Sun in Scorpio

chart B:
Sun aspecting Pluto

That would basically be the same pattern, or very similiar.

The "pairings":
1. Sun-Moon-level
2. Venus-Mars-level
3. Mercury-level
4. Jupiter-Saturn-level (kind of social relation)
(5. IC-MC-level
6. ASC-DESC-level)

MEANING:

The basic principle is that we somehow live or manifest our natal charts; it`s the traits we have been given and we will express them (in some way at least - that`s the basic principle of psychological astrology).

But that means that these traits will be become apparent or influence our interactions with other people as well, and these other people have been given their own unique traits and will react to our expression of ours. And they most probably do that according to THEIR natal pattern.

If theh patterns of two charts now "fit" each other, it usually happens in two ways:

1. Mirroring
The patterns are exactly the same (Venus/Jupiter in both charts or Mars/Saturn in both charts for example).
There will be a psychological affinity.
Both people experience certain aspects of their world / life the same way; this can happen on different levels of course (similiarity in communication - Mercury; similiarity in expression of love- Venus etc.).

If we meet someone who has the same pattern as we have, he becomes our "mirror". We recognize ourselves in them, he reflects something back to us about ourselves.
Now there are two possible reacctions (at least these are the two I can think of now).

A. We do not like that part in ourselves, we have projected it out and it has become our "shadow".
If we now recognize this part in the other person, we probably will not like him.
An indicator often for this is if we experience an extremely strong and irrational emotional negative reaction. That is usually a pretty good sign that it does have something to do with ourselves or the perception we have of ourselves.

B. But usually, if we are comfortable with ourselves especially, there will be a feeling of great familiarity, a natural kinship, and we feel drawn to the other person because of that warm cuddly mutual understanding.

I think the first case probably will happen more often if the pattern involves stressful aspects to Saturn, Chiron, Uranus or Pluto (with Neptune you never know. lol). But not always. I have far more often seen the "mirroring" providing a stable basis of familiarity, a foundation or even a warm cocoon (which sometimes is not only good btw).

It usually marks some sort of [b]"underlying compatibility".

[/B]

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