posted January 06, 2012 02:32 PM            

If he looks at you like you have crawled from under a rock and is dismissive...well, consider it as another saturn lesson which will help you understand your own emotional nature and the way you are dealing with it.

posted January 06, 2012 04:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Linda Jones:
Amazing insights, Taineberry.

I don't want to steal this thread as lindisfarne can really benefit from your advice and her situation is the focus. So I wonder if I could ask you for your thoughts on my situation perhaps by starting a new thread? I don't know, or maybe on the same one since my question also has to do with Moon square Saturn? Thanks.

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no worries feel free to ask whatever you want here!

posted January 06, 2012 04:28 PM            

Hi Taineberry, thanks for sharing your amazing insights about moon and Saturn. I wonder if you have any thoughts on my situation?

Even w/ a soft aspect to Saturn I've had to spend a lot of time, effort, and energy understanding myself and consciously increasing my self-awareness. And yes, the growth has been very painful at times but also very rewarding ultimately.

I feel that since, in the end, all life lessons are about learning to love (ourselves and others), my own journey would not have progressed further until I met someone --with whom I fell completely in love as he did with me. We bared our souls to each other-something neither of us had done before. The connection at all levels was incredible and also a bit scary. Just to give a few examples-we have had the same dreams on the same nights at pretty much the same time! Since we're not living together, this to me seems mind-boggling. Also, I "pick up" on his moods almost on an hourly basis even when I'm not with him. I can also tell when he's thinking about me, as this is “felt “by me through different physical” vibrations -hard to describe exactly. Also, frequently I have dreams in which he communicates things-his feelings or circumstances, which he is unable to verbalize otherwise.

One would think that if the mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual connections are so strong, there shouldn't be any problem, right? Nope! The biggest problem, as I see it (and I'm trying to understand astrology more to see if my relationship with him can be helped), is his 12th house moon in Pisces in a tight square to his Saturn. He frequently seems to respond to the colder, more emotionless side of Saturn's influence on his moon more easily. I've grown to understand him and love him even more for who he truly is. However, his protective shell is defeating even me with all my Taurus ability to withstand. The emotional rejections he frequently puts out are very painful at times. He has admitted to having abandonment fears from childhood, but he has never handled them. I feel that his desire to control (his own emotions and mine), his mistrust, pessimism, and his defensiveness are the chief barriers to ongoing intimacy between us. I find I have to find the right time (and sometimes this can take days) to bring up something emotional-and even then I have to censor everything I say for fear of offending him.

Interestingly, every time I've thought of breaking up with him, something happens to put us in contact w/ each other again (he's aware of this too)-as if the Universe is trying to get us to work out whatever it is we need to. When we met neither of us was looking for love. It just happened. Before him I never knew I had this much capacity to love someone so selflessly. Even before I looked at our charts I knew this was a very karmic connection, and that we have been lovers in previous lifetimes. The "knowingness" we have about each other transcends anything in this material world. But, the main challenge I feel, is his natal Moon square Saturn.

So, with all this in view, do you think you could maybe have some pointers on how best to handle things?

posted January 07, 2012 02:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Taineberry:
This is my view of Saturn, both in Natal and Synastry. I think you need to look at the operation in the Natal first, before you can see what it is doing in Synastry.

Saturn craves what it touches, and when it contacts the moon you suffer from the illusion that you are separated from and lack the ability to connect intimately with someone. You may fear rejection. Because of this, you feel inhibited in expressing your emotions and feeling ... but on the plus side you often also feel compelled to improve and master this aspect of your life because you want it so much. Mastery over anything can only be achieved through rigorous life lessons. Saturn ensures that circumstances in your life will manifest in order to awaken a need to “improve” the functioning of the moon. Saturn will drive you to mature and get a solid grip on what it takes to express emotion, feeling, intimacy and imagination in a mature and effective manner.

When Saturn is in aspect to the moon in the Natal chart, you have the potential to develop very well controlled, realistic and enduring emotional responses. Nevertheless, with a hard aspect the chances are, you will never quite feel satisfied that you have mastered it - no matter how much you work on it – which is why there is continuous compulsion to work on improving it throughout your life. Saturn will never be satisfied while there are lessons you still need to learn in order to improve the functioning of your instinctive emotional reactions so that they "work" in the real world - no stone is left uncovered. This will take place though testing situations which affect you emotionally in a painful and compelling way. These challenges will potentially force you to recognise what you need to do in order to operate in a mature and effective manner, with the result that over time you become a master of your own emotions.... if you learn well.... OR a cold and emotionless shell if her resist and resent changing yourself or if you allow yourself to be defeated by adversity. If you deal well with your Saturn, you will learn what the illusionary or counter-productive elements are that make you feel you are not good enough and which are preventing you from connecting emotionally with others. You always crave the qualities of the planet which Saturn contacts (in this case - the moon- therefore emotional intimacy), but are delayed from benefiting from this until you become rigorously self aware of your emotional nature. Emotional fulfillment is not denied, just delayed .... until you get it right.

With soft aspects to Saturn, you will be more likely to want to co-operate with the lessons you need to learn to achieve mastery. It will be like Mary Poppins is the teacher – you still have to learn, but the pill is sweetened.

But with hard aspects, it will feel more like Attila the Hun is your teacher. You learn while being exquisitely tortured. It is much harder to want to resist the lesson when you feel you are being horse-whipped into shape!

But either way, you will learn. The difference is that if you learn to master the expression of the moon by means of a soft aspect to Saturn, you will most certainly benefit from your effort and hard work, but your self-awareness may not have developed very much in the process. Conversely, with the hard aspects, mastery of the Saturn lesson will be harder to achieve, but personal growth will be huge and it will be accompanied by tremendous insight.

Of course, in either case (soft or hard aspects), if you fail to learn – you will continuously feel that craving to achieve intimacy and emotional connection, and you may feel like you are being denied opportunities in that area of life. You feel victimised (“poor me!”) and resistant to change. It will seem that something or someone outside is always at fault and being nasty to you and making bad things happen. You might project this by lashing out at others, judging them or trying to control them.

In synastry, I think that Saturn does acts like glue because (when operating well), it is all about serious commitment and the ability of the couple to master what makes a workable relationship. When Saturn is manifesting badly, it is also glue, but then what holds the couple together degenerates into finding ways to trap each other through imposing controls, limitations and restrictions. With the soft aspects the couple finds it easy to achieve either the positive or negative expression of Saturn (depending on the health of Saturn in their own individual charts) in the way that they relate to each other. With the hard aspects, the desire to bond is still there, BUT the couple will find it much more difficult to come to an agreement over what boundaries and commitments they are both willing to accept within the relationship. Maturity is required, and ultimately an enduring, emotionally mature bond is achievable in both cases. If not, the relationship might deteriorate into something cold, controlling and limiting with one or both parties feeling trapped and unable to express their feelings. Emotional blackmail is a possibility.

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posted January 07, 2012 05:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lindisfarne:
In any type of relationship I need there to be communication. I'm sure My Mercury in Aquarius in the first house making conjunctions with my other planets has a lot to do with this.. without communication I feel starved, as if I am going to die something like that.

Currently I am experiencing a difficult aspect in my relationship, it's there in our synastry, I do appreciate Saturn only because it gives me an idea of where the work and possible success is... [b]Anyway his Saturn squares my moon in pisces for some reason I cannot talk to him, especially about my feelings or thoughts center ed around my emotions. I'm already learning to embrace my emotions a lot more it's been hard and uncomfortable but I'm getting used to it... the problem is for some reason without him verbally expressing it I feel stifled all the time. He projects this air of authority and I always feel judged - this is what I truly perceive- it's like I'm being heavily scrutinized and how I feel just isn't "sufficient" or that I should "be emotionally strong" that's the air he projects which is contradicting because he is the one always asking how I feel and what I'm thinking and that I can always talk to him (I can talk about anything impersonal.. when it comes to matters of importance I feel stifled by him this is really ruining my interpretation of a potentially fulfilling relationship) He thinks the relationship is butterflies and sunshine, I'm on the other hand feeling kind of unhappy. I know if I tell him this he will be really hurt. I'm not sure if this is what this aspect even means... I assume Saturn the father stern vs moon emotions etc would have some kind of powerful limitation over the moon person. That's truly how I feel currently. I cannot be open entirely about something that matters to me emotionally I have to really sift and edit out things because for some reason I feel like he is judging or secretly critiquing me in a bad way or he will continue to behave like some authoraiative parent figure... He is a great guy I am happy on some level this is just one major thing for me. He will ask me something regarding feelings and I just blank out I try so hard to say what I really feel and I cannot.. because of the air I receive from him.. Again this is what I perceive. This is the energy he projects and I honestly think he is not aware of it all.

We have a lot of water in our charts, specifically Venus and moon and Pluto and other asteroids.. He senses a lot of things especially when I'm upset or if something is wrong, he will ask "What's wrong?" "are you upset" truthfully I am but I cannot directly tell him this it'll usually be "im fine" "nope nothing is wrong!" it's freaky that he will sense it right off the bat but I just cannot talk to him about it. I want to, maybe I have to get used to being comfortable with relying on others for emotional support? No clue. I've been googling lots of stuff on this aspect but cant really find much...

Do any of you who've had this aspect natally or in synastry how did you overcome it? Should you just come right out and say what you feel or what?

Any of your experiences would be mucho appreciated.. would like to know how any of you experienced this aspect..[/B]

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I had this aspect with my ex-partner and i could not relate more to what you are saying. i was the moon (gemini) his saturn in piscis.

caffee astrology has a good description that in my opinion it is accurate to my situation http://cafeastrology.com/synastry/moon_saturn_aspects.html

In my case, i could not even cry as he became so annoyed "what is wrong with you woman", yes, they spect you to behave as a grown up, not as a child.

there is a lesson here from my experience, you become more eomotionally independent by being in a relationship with someobody like him, but you need to talk to him about how you feel censored about him. he needs to know. it is funny that he notices when something is going on. i had that aspect as well, his moon in piscis trine my moon and my sun-mars- and all my midpoints in cancer including moon-mars-sun-venus.

but just observe in your chart what is the aspect to mercury (both yours and him) if your mercury has also harsh aspect to saturn, you may find almost impossible to talk about it without him becoming defensive and switch off and put a wall. If you have a good mercury aspects, there is hope to work things out. this will always be a challenging aspect, but you will be able to work things.

how mature is him makes the difference. how accepting he is of emotions. the concepts he has about crying, ect. talking about these things without talking about you may help you to know where is coming from and if there is a real need for you to censor your emotions. in any case, this aspect is to teach you emotinoal independence. you may need some learning in this regard. otherwise you have not fallen for somebody triggering this aspect. the things is how much and how fast you can take and this is when communication makes the difference.

in my case harsh aspect to saturn. my mercury-mmon square his saturn made very difficult to talk about emotional issues. so, it never worked. feelings were strongs and run deep, but it was a failure.

hopefully you have a better aspect and he has a more open disposition to discuss emotions.

all my best,

posted January 07, 2012 05:32 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lindisfarne:
Do you think there is a possibility I am resisting the lesson or whatever that lesson is? From him?

He told me the other day "You have to be emotionally strong!" I wanted to throw something at him. I don't even know what that means. I can't just snap my fingers and morph into him. (that's what I want to tell him sometimes) I don't cry or whatever or act like an emotional mess...but I am very sensitive to him. I cannot express myself so I feel restricted and things build up and I explode (in private)

I know someone in this forum has moon in Pisces or Venus I want to know if they can relate to this:
[b] I am so sensitive that I started crying when he told me he was exhausted from work and he passed out when I needed to talk to him about something lol I'm so embarrassed that I cried but I did. I hate that he makes me a very sensitive person, compared to anyone else in my life. I take almost any action any word from anyone with a grain of salt it doesn't phase me but when it comes to him the littlest things make me hypersensitive to the point where I cry. yes I'm embarrassed to say this but i must in order to get proper assistance..[/B]

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first thing..there is no need to feel embarassed a bout your emotions. i wish more adults were more able to accept that crying is so relieving and avoid the ulcers you tend get. relieving the stress of a pain by cryin is more healthy than shouting, violence, etc...

posted January 07, 2012 05:35 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lindisfarne:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by milly:
[b]Yes, I write an email when I cannot speak up my feelings :-). My moon is in geminis in the 4th house.
I see you have your moon in piscis, so it is armonic with your mars in cancer. I see one way you have to avoid mars backfiring is working in something artistic or creative. I can also see that your mercury in the first will help you to communicate all that very rich inner world you have, all your emotions. Saturn in the first house makes you shy, but if you work on it it will give you strength rather than cohibition and then you will call it responsability.

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Ya. I'm def shy when it comes to any form of personal self expression.. I will take weeks to answer a question sometimes where other people will answer it in a matter of minutes.

[/B][/QUOTE]

posted January 07, 2012 05:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Taineberry:
If you choose to confront him, my advice would be to approach him in a non- emotional, almost businesslike way. Make sure your timing is good. State your problem, give the facts, ask him if he is aware of your difficulty and if he would be prepared to experiment with ways that will help you feel less inhibited with him. If he says yes, get creative.

If he looks at you like you have crawled from under a rock and is dismissive...well, consider it as another saturn lesson which will help you understand your own emotional nature and the way you are dealing with it.

As far as deciding about staying with him or not is concerned, there is no right or wrong answer either. It really depends on what you at a deep level are choosing ...is staying with him whilst knowing that he will continue to challenge you with experiences that trigger emotional insecurity but at the same time will push you towards achieving greater emotional self knowledge important to you on a soul growth level? Or is it more important for you to move on in life and concentrate on a different challenge or life experience with someone else?

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posted January 07, 2012 05:55 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Linda Jones:
Amazing insights, Taineberry.

I don't want to steal this thread as lindisfarne can really benefit from your advice and her situation is the focus. So I wonder if I could ask you for your thoughts on my situation perhaps by starting a new thread? I don't know, or maybe on the same one since my question also has to do with Moon square Saturn? Thanks.

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it is the aspect is the same, i believe anybody attracted to the thread will benefit from more experiences...

posted January 07, 2012 12:06 PM            

Hi LJ. First up, it sounds like your relationship is an important one for both of you. That it is meant to be.

Men with moon in Pisces are the most elusive creatures on earth and you guy having his in the 12th is going to make him doubly so. Although, as you know, this moon makes a person very sensitive, romantic and idealistic, you must remember this is a MAN we are talking about and one with a square to Saturn to boot; therefore it would be typical if he learnt to fear and repress his imaginative and emotional nature from an early age leading to innate patterns of emotional withdrawal and denial in later life. An attempt may be made to shut-down and disassociate from what would otherwise be a very rich and vivid emotional/fantasy life. As this aspect is culturally not allowed recognition, many men with the Moon in Pisces may fear their innate sensitivity and anything of an ‘otherwordly’ nature, as this would mean opening up to parts of themselves that have for a long time been locked away.

As such, it is not surprising that he has been attracted to you with your Moon opp Neptune (in the 7th), as your Neptunian Moon qualties are probably a perfect mix of groundedness (Taurus) and spirituality. He recognises in you the qualities that he requires for self nurturing, but with the Saturn square all that is hard for him to access in himself. But he needs to at some point start to own and express these qualities more freely, like he did when you first met. This will be liberating for him.

So how to break through that shell? Well at the end of the day, it is only HIM that can do that ... but you can make it a little easier for him by understanding a few things. Firstly that Moon square Saturn people really need to feel accepted for exactly the way they are. As soon as they feel judged or inadequate in any way this triggers off a whole bunch of subconscious sensitizing events and shuts them down completely. Well, you would be a saint if you got this right all the time, but if you could create that safe space for him sometimes it would be great, a space where whatever is said and done is just accepted unconditionally without it being "used" against him later as it belongs only in that moment as a sacred sharing. Also understand that with a Pisces Moon, it is a psychological necessity for them to withdraw/ to escape people (and that includes you) periodically. This is especially true for men as they find it much harder than Pisces Moon women to do their "merging" in a verbal way. He will probably need alone time with music, nature, water etc and it is important that you let him have this. While he is isolating himself, be as unobtrusive as possible, but when he is "back", you can connect with him emotionally by talking about his experience with whatever it was that he escaped to, but once again, don't judge it. Cultivate your own Neptunian qualities and merge with it.

Whilst it is good to create a safe emotional space for you Mr Moon square Pisces, don't make the mistake of overindulging him either. If he is shutting you out when you need him, or being unhealthily escapist ... you need to tell him directly. Tell him you need to know how he feels and whatever he says is not going to be judged or debated, it is just so you understand where each other are at. Encourage the dreamer in him, but keep him real. With his Saturn contact, he has the capacity for that.

posted January 07, 2012 06:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nordicsoul:
I had this aspect with my ex-partner and i could not relate more to what you are saying. i was the moon (gemini) his saturn in piscis.

caffee astrology has a good description that in my opinion it is accurate to my situation http://cafeastrology.com/synastry/moon_saturn_aspects.html

In my case, i could not even cry as he became so annoyed "what is wrong with you woman", yes, they spect you to behave as a grown up, not as a child.

there is a lesson here from my experience, you become more eomotionally independent by being in a relationship with someobody like him, but you need to talk to him about how you feel censored about him. he needs to know. it is funny that he notices when something is going on. i had that aspect as well, his moon in piscis trine my moon and my sun-mars- and all my midpoints in cancer including moon-mars-sun-venus.

but just observe in your chart what is the aspect to mercury (both yours and him) if your mercury has also harsh aspect to saturn, you may find almost impossible to talk about it without him becoming defensive and switch off and put a wall. If you have a good mercury aspects, there is hope to work things out. this will always be a challenging aspect, but you will be able to work things.

how mature is him makes the difference. how accepting he is of emotions. the concepts he has about crying, ect. talking about these things without talking about you may help you to know where is coming from and if there is a real need for you to censor your emotions. in any case, this aspect is to teach you emotinoal independence. you may need some learning in this regard. otherwise you have not fallen for somebody triggering this aspect. the things is how much and how fast you can take and this is when communication makes the difference.

in my case harsh aspect to saturn. my mercury-mmon square his saturn made very difficult to talk about emotional issues. so, it never worked. feelings were strongs and run deep, but it was a failure.

hopefully you have a better aspect and he has a more open disposition to discuss emotions.

all my best,

nordic

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thank you for your input!!!
I'm sorry that yours didn't work out.. sometimes I do feel like ending it... but you are right about everything you said... he tells me to be understanding etc of his scheduele etc and to basically be more emotionally independent - for now. I can be spoiled at times and pushy especially when I am not getting my way....

nataly I have no bad aspects being made to mercury with Saturn, both my Saturn and mercury are in Aquarius but no conjunction there, my sun conjuncts my mercury and Saturn conjuncts my ascendant.

posted January 07, 2012 06:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by nordicsoul:
i suspect the lesson here is more about felling ok with your emotional side. not being embarassed of your emotions. he triggers that fear on you and your role is to challenge that fear. like are you afraid of expressing "here you go with all your fears, but expressing what is it" it is like jumping from a parachute, scaring, but liberating once yu try

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posted January 07, 2012 11:10 PM            

Your insight is eerily accurate. The things you've suggested...I've been doing them as I intuitively understood that to be the only way to allow the flow of energy between us. This is what has required all my patience and empathy. And it is through doing this that I've discovered a selflessness w/in me I never new existed.

As my empathy and understanding for him increase with time, I feel my love for him pour out even more than before. But as you said I'm unable to do this all the time, and at such times I feel defeated.

Believe it or not, I'd never considered why he would be attracted to me. He's mentioned a "strong pull," a "melding," "the rest of the world falling away when he's with me," etc. He has never described his feelings for me more specifically than "deep," and I'm happy with this-no complaints. Your take on the basis of his attraction for me is also very perceptive.

I think you're intuitive and empathic, and your organized thought process comes across clearly in your writing-as does your Saturn wisdom!

And I'm going to take heart from your courageous dealing w/ your own natal Saturn square. In fact if I can get my Pisces man to read what you've written I'd be happy! Have to wait for the right moment though ;-)

Thank you, Tainebrry. It's my good fortune that I ran into you on this post.