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Topic: How many of you have Pluto in the 5th?
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Chiemi Knowflake Posts: 2110 From: Michigan Registered: Feb 2012
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posted April 23, 2014 05:47 PM
(Donna Cunningham) With Pluto in the fifth house, at least in older generations, there is often a situation of being forced into marriage because of a pregnancy. Even within marriage, pregnancy might be used as a means to gain control of the relationship, for instance to ensure that the mate doesn't leave. Since this is not a very successful way to control, these people often wind up resenting or spoiling the children in an attempt to make up for not wanting them in the first place. Brats are very often unwanted children who've been raised this way; the parent has given excess power to the children and over-indulged them because of guilt. Such children resent how they are being used, learning early to manipulate and manoeuvre both parents. The children can also be seen as a means to power, or can be one parent's ticket to never being alone, so the ties become symbiotic. On the other hand, people with this placement may refuse to have children at all. When the 'inner child' has been denied by a parent, these children grow up to fear or resent the demands that their own children would make. They fear parenthood would take over their lives and leave nothing for themselves. There is also the unwelcome issue of power that parenthood would bring. Childlessness can also be a form of revenge toward either the mate or the parents, a refusal to confer them immortality. With Pluto in the fifth, one parent may have been overawed by the child's creativity and have seen it as a means to wealth and power. Like pushy stage mothers, they have have gone too far, and talent became the focus of power struggles. Talent can become the focus of many power struggles, especially with lovers who think love is power that will transform and bring out budding genius. Romance and transformation are all mixed together for people with this combination. "Let me love you so I can make you over in my own image." Or vice versa. For more insight into the romantic functioning of this placemnet, read Pluto in the seventh and eighth, are they are similar. IP: Logged |
Chiemi Knowflake Posts: 2110 From: Michigan Registered: Feb 2012
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posted April 23, 2014 05:47 PM
(Howard Sasportas) The key to working with Pluto in the 5th is the development of a healthy sense of one's own power and worth. Everyone has the need to feel important and special in some area of life; but with Pluto in Leo's natural domain, this could become an obsession. Excessive pride and an inflated self-opinion could bring many problems to those with this placement. However, too weak an ego, or too little a sense of their importance, value and effectiveness can also be the source of difficulties. In either case, they may resort to extreme gestures to prove their potency. As children, we feel that we are more likely to be protected by our parents if they find us enchanting and captivating. Therefore being somebody special is linked in our minds with warding off doom and disaster. For those with Pluto in the 5th, the need for love, approval and power may still be mixed up with the survival instinct. Obviously, this dynamic may spur some people on to high achievements. For others, it could mean bitter disappointment at the lack of their recognition and worth and angry resentment towards those who appear more successful. However, failing to win the status they seek may provide the impetus for further self-evaluation and self-knowledge. For children with Pluto in the 5th, the sandbox could be the place where they scale new heights, or the scene for traumatic experiences. It just can't be any old castle, but must somehow express from the depths of their feelings who they really are, complete with moat and secret chambers. Mars threw sand in the face of his friend who did a better castle; Pluto might go a step further - accidentally on purpose kicking over the rival's castle, provoking a fight and breaking the friendship. It may be days or weeks later before Pluto returns to the sandbox at all. Later in life, creative self-expression may still entain working through traumas, blocks and difficulties. However, the problems encountered serve to bring unconscious patterns and unfinished issues from early life to the surface where there is more chance of resolving them. Some with this placement will be able to give expression to creative works of great power which can awaken and transform others. For both men and women, this position of Pluto suggests that bringing children into the world could have a life-changing effect. Although this is generally the case for anyone who has children, the issues of parenting are somehow more far-reaching with Pluto in this house. For many men with this placement, becoming a father for the first time heralds a traumatic awakening to the fact that they are no longer the 'eternal youth' themselves. For a woman, it could indicate difficulty with child-bearing; and she is wise to look after herself with extra care during the pregnancy. Issues around abortion and miscarriages are not uncommon with Pluto in the 5th. Even when an interrupted pregnancy cannot be helped, there is still the need to grieve and mourn for what is lost. As with Neptune in the 5th, the anguish incurred in such circumstances is more productively utilised if some meaning or purpose can be attached to the experience. Parents with this placement may meet their own dark and subterranean sides through the behaviour of their children. The parent with Pluto in the 5th may over-control or try to dominate a child not purely out of a desire to love and protect, but because the parent is frightened that the child, if left to its own devices, might do something which is untoward or personally threatening. If this is the case, the children may have to break radically with the parent in order to establish more freely their own identities. In the long run, it is far better that the parent examine his or her own fears and complexes and what has given rise to them, rather than attempt to control life as a way of avoiding confronting these. Having said all this, I have seen many instances of Pluto in the 5th where the parent-child relationship is handled with strength and dignity. With Pluto in the 5th, romantic pursuits may become entangled with the power drive and some degree of sexual compulsiveness. Those with this placement may fear the intensity of their sexual drive and try to inhibit it altogether or find ways to transmute libidinal expression into channels which they deem more acceptable. Others may derive a sense of potency through sexual conquest and attract love affairs which involve power conflicts, dramas and intrigues. Carried to extremes, they could use other people too much to prove their own worth - a form of psychological rape. True mutuality, sharing and respect for another person's integrity are the lessons to be learned if Pluto is in the 5th. IP: Logged |
Chiemi Knowflake Posts: 2110 From: Michigan Registered: Feb 2012
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posted April 23, 2014 05:47 PM
(Stephanie Camilleri) This is a fairly good place for Pluto, especially when it is trine the Ascendant. These people are intensely creative. They must have healthy outlets for their creative impulses or they will go bananas. It is an excellent position for painting, writing, or for any field that provides a creative outlet. The imagination is fertile, constantly responding to external stimuli. They will not be able to buckled down for long to a routine job that leaves them little latitude for creativity, and will willingly undergo all kinds of struggles to maintain their creative independence. They rarely can accept anything the way it is; they will work to make changes of some sort. Generally handy with tools, they will continually be making changes to their environment. They are always ready to do their part to make positive alterations to the social and economic structures of their community, experimenting readily with new methods. They have extremely sensual and passionate love natures which they become very adept at keeping on ice, so that even those closest to them may not realise this about them, thinking them cool, dispassionate, even cold. Indeed, they may not even realise it about themselves until circumstances trigger an outburst. They are attracted to Plutonian types and will have at least one painful or even traumatic romantic / sexual episode with such a one that makes them cautious from then on. They are capable of burning with desire for someone for years without showing any sign of their passion. It is rare that they do not marry; and they often marry quite early. Marriage is always the culmination of a passionate soap opera-type romance; but marriage is not the end, for if romance dies out of the marriage, they will become involved with another. This is in spite of the fact that they may do their best to fight it, as romantic intrigue frightens them as much as it attracts them. Sexual attractions can become obsessive; and they must learn to steer clear of hopeless involvements as the power of Pluto, if damned, will bring terrible emotional anguish. They are good teachers. Due to their innate understanding of subliminal emotional levels and their ability to communicate non-verbally on these levels, they have a talent for dealing with difficult, unhappy, or disturbed individuals and are often able to assist them in achieving breakthroughs and releasing their own intellectual / creative powers. They are strongly attracted to children, and will usually have their own. If for some reason they can't, they will find a way to be with them. Being in the presence of children increases their subliminal creative energies. This placement is a partial testimony to unconventional sexual attractions of all kinds which, if repressed, will cause a variety of psychological problems. They may seek power as a wider range for their creative energies to graze on, but they often have such a struggle maintaining control over themselves that their lives never reach that point. They are inclined to be perfectionists in all they do and, whenever they are hard on those they love, it us usually their perfectionism at work. They may learn through loss not to be as demanding of others as they are of themselves.
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Chiemi Knowflake Posts: 2110 From: Michigan Registered: Feb 2012
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posted April 23, 2014 05:48 PM
(Bill Herbst) Conscious persona: With Pluto in the 5th, normal conscious persona with its heightened appreciation for an audience is unconscious with no audience-awareness. This is method acting at its apex; upi don't 'perform' a role, you 'become' the role, totally immersing yourself into it. You don't so much take on a character as become your natural self at a much more intense level than usual. Every trait is intensified and concentrated, so that the self pours out onto the stage with profound impact. Curiously, the audience assumes that you're acting, but you won't be. The 'act' here is a direct reflection of what's going on in your subconscious. The pitfall is complete loss of personal ego control, while the challenge is to transform both yourself and the audience with ego power, but to do so in ways that respect everyone's dignity. Romance, giving love: You're motivated toward courtship from deep within the emotional caverns of the subconscious realm. Romance is a compulsive eruption of the need to love so totally that self and beloved fuse, forged into a new metal by the heat of passion. For you, it hardly matters how this is accomplished; and the main pitfall lies in misuse of power through dominance or submission. Total romantic love pulls you up by the roots; and the experience can be excruciating. Love and hate often intertwine. Your challenge is to allow love to arise in its own time and place, then to banish all emotions of negativity, imbalance or hatred, purging them in love's fire. Do not attempt to transform love. Rather, let love transform you. Sexual performance: The physical act of making love is paradoxical. At times it's like kissing your sister. You wonder where the passion went. But look out. It can also be ravenous, insatiable, a tidal wave of feelings erupting from God-knows-where. At either level, it is more compulsive than conscious. You could veer between charismatic impact and cruel insensitivity. Seual success comes from the power of your emotional radiance, not from the skills of technique. The pitfall surrounds emotional blindness, while the challenge is to provoke fundamental change. But if transformation occurs only within the beloved, it has failed; you must also be receptive to the 'death and rebirth' inherent in your intense sexuality. Otherwise, it's simply unconscious lust for power and control. Personal creativity: Despite your magnificent potential, you may at times fail to live up to your billing. This is due to the largely unconscious nature of the creative drive. At times you may not feel it at all, thinking yourself barren; at other times you may be compulsively driven by the urge to create. The pitfall is extreme reactions: you could agonise over occasional blockage, or you might equally blot out every other consideration when the flow moves through your ego. The challenge is to create something that touches everyone. Competition: You are more competitive than you may realise. You hurdle headlong into personal risk, or you sit glumly on the sidelines, not understanding the game. There are no rules here, no road maps. Instead, you surprise even yourself by rising to the occasion, bursting open to reveal uncharted depth, ingenuity, and sheer, competitive fire. Hold back nothing in those exquisite moments when you really go for it. The challenge is to let your brilliance come forth in its own time, its own way, without your ego pretending it is in control. Create something out of nothing, and share the credit with the Gods. IP: Logged |
Chiemi Knowflake Posts: 2110 From: Michigan Registered: Feb 2012
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posted April 23, 2014 05:48 PM
(Robert Pelletier) You exercise your will at every turn, because you have an exaggerated sense of your importance. You enjoy having power over others; and you don't meet much resistance, because you are clever in winning support by capitalising on other people's weaknesses. You are aggressive in romantic relationships and easily offended when you are rejected, perhaps even resorting to violence. Although you want to spend all your time satisfying self-indulgent needs, you have the creative imagination to earn public respect for your contribution to social causes. You show some talent for politics, in which you could succeed with training in government and law. Other areas that might interest you are investment, insurance or medicine. You could work effectively with young people, who would admire your strength and dedication to their needs. You can teach young people to have self-confidence to make a life for themselves. It would be satisfying to know that your efforts were productive. You have a gift for making your point effectively; and people usually don't realise that they've been mesmerised by your dramatic showmanship. you always find ways to satisfy your desires; and few people can resist your charm. You know what you want, and you don't beat around the bush. You will even use flattery when someone seems to resist you. Not a flighty person, you are deeply concerned about finding solutions to social problems. You do not sit idly by and tell others how to remedy the situation. You want a partner who will share your dedication to your goals. You are not really compromising, although you give that impression. You try to make others submit to your will, but you are generally fair, and you will defend your children when their well-being is threatened. You may not enjoy looking to the future, because you are so preoccupied with present pleasures. You must plan ahead, so that your financial affairs will be in good order. If you plan now for security in your later years, you will not have to be dependent on anyone. It is very embarrassing to you to be without sufficient funds, because you realise you have no-one to blame but yourself. If you want returns and security, you will have to make a contribution for that purpose. You're a better manager with other people's money than with your own. You will be more of an asset to society if you accept your obligations dutifully and not mind working behind the scenes where the problems are. Your healing ability could help mitigate the unacceptable social conditions that diminish man's dignity. Your demands are usually met; and you expect favours from others, but this has not diminished your enthusiasm for making a life of your own. You know how to use your talents productively to assure your security. Although you may be a wheeler-dealer by temperament, you know that your exaggerated self-image can't carry you through life. You know you must work at developing your skills to achieve the highest possible level of competence. This is the only way to be sure that you can successfully meet competition. The worst thing you could do is coast to your objectives by being a parasite on those who are making on honest effort.
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Chiemi Knowflake Posts: 2110 From: Michigan Registered: Feb 2012
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posted April 23, 2014 05:49 PM
In the tradition... the fifth house is often named 'The House of Children' and taken literally and narrowly as astrolgoy's way of referring to kids. That notion is not so much wrong as it is limited. Certainly people with the fifth house strong in their charts commonly find themselves much involved with children. Maybe they have kids of their own. Maybe they're grammar school teachers or toy designers or social workers helping children who've been abused or abandoned. But fifth house emphasis also appears commonly in the charts of people involved with creative work - musicians, actors, painters. Or very active, engaged hobbyists. Or simply in the charts of people whom we might view as particularly colorful or entertaining. The common denominator is not children in the outward, concrete sense. It is the 'inner child' - that playful, expressive, self-indulgent, often self-centred part of every human being regardless of his or her age. Something inside us all is noisy, innocent, and hungry for attention. It wants to have a peak experience and to have it immediately. And if we try to ignore it too utterly, we grow either dispiritingly flat or dangerously explosive. Traditionally, the fifth house has a cautionary side as well. It's recognised as a House of Debauchery. The human need to have pleasure and emotional release is like a mighty river that can overflood its banks, leading to obsession and addiction. The old astrologers recognised the pattern: people with powerful fifth house emphasis in their charts were over-represented among the compulsive gamblers, the drunkards and the gluttons. Needless to say, the wilder aspects of human sexual expression are evident here too. So, we need to have some fun... but what's so much fun about Pluto? Let's unravel it.... Your high destiny: What makes humans different from the rest of the animals? Not a heck of a lot. Fundamentalists like to put 'Man' in another category entirely, but increasingly we see both science and eco-conscious popular culture are moving toward a realisation that the gulf between ourselves and the rest of life isn't as wide as our ancestors imagined. We used to say, "Humans use tools" - but more and more we are recognising tool use among other creatures. And language: but chimps are learning sign language at an alarming rate, and anyone with a cat or dog can tell you it has got a large and expressive vocabulary. What about a shared culture transmitted down the generations? Check out the tribal 'songs' of the whale cultures. A cynic might play a trump card: we humans are unique in that we are the only species that has ever threatened to wipe out life entirely. Compelling - but wrong again. About a billion years ago, green plants began pumping huge volumes of a grossly toxic chemical into earth's atmosphere, destroying almost all existing life on the planet. The 'chemical' was oxygen. Are humans truly distinct in any way at all? Maybe not, but if I had to defend our uniqueness in a debate, I'd forget all the old claims and rest my argument on art. We are creative creatures. And even those of us who are not actively creative still respond to art... and make 'creative' choices regarding what colour shirt to wear, what sofa to buy, which automobile most pleases our eye. Art, as I am using the term here, is very broad. Essentially, it is any attempt to represent experience, and through that representation to interpret it. Thus, a woman telling a joke at a party is in the same boat with Georgia O'Keefe: she's expressing herself creatively. Virtually everyone enjoys art in some form. ninety-two percent of us spend a lot of our lives in front of the television, for example. Most of us listen to music or go to the movies sometimes. And the enjoyment itself renews us. Some art is legitimately there simply to make us laugh - and wouldn't life be hard without any laughter? Even 'silly' art serves a serious purpose. And of course there is 'serious' art - films and novels, for example, that deal with complex, emotionally volatile topics. Could we be fully human without them? Without the artists who represent these aspects of life to us, we would all be terribly alone - as alone as the mourning dove staring blankly at the body of her mate. With Pluto in the fifth house, your high destiny involves developing your capacity for dramatisation, representation, and self-expression. It is 'creative' in the broadest sense... but I want to emphasise that creativity isn't alwayas 'artistic' in the narrow, obvious way. It boils down to a vigorous, striking exhibition of some inner state or heart-held value. Your high destiny entails channelling ego-energy colorfully and unself-consciously in a way that encourages others to forget themselves momentarily and lose themselves in an identification with you. One way or another, it puts you on centre stage. And what is your message? We cannot know precisely because above all it is highly individual - that's really the point with creative self-expression. But we do know that the message is Plutonian: your destiny lies in symbolising the dark for us, and ideally, representing for us a path through the dark. Your distorting wound: Grandpa is dying of cancer. He's emaciated. Chemotherapy has stripped him of all his hair. He's as pale as blotchy snow. Little Billy is brought to teh hospital to say good-bye to his dying grandfather. It's a very dramatic moment for the child. Everyone is gentle with Billy; and in a few minutes he's allowed to leave the room. A few days later, grandpa exits the flesh. A month later, there happens to be a family get-together. Life is back to normal and the adults are in the living room talking, drinking, and laughing. In walks Billy. He's got a stocking pulled over his head, reproducing his grandfather's pale, hairless visage. He's applied powder and lurid rouge to his face. His cheeks are sucked in. Zombie-like, he walks into the living room and speaks his grandfather's name. And you can imagine the reviews his performance receives. Billy is following the deepest impulse of his fifth house Pluto: the impulse to represent the dark. But people have mixed feelings about that kind of performance. In this case, Billy in his innocence hit everyone a little too hard and a little too unexpectedly. Mom rushes him out of the living room, leaving his relatives shocked and stunned... until nervous giggles release the tension. This story is dramatic; yours may not be so extreme. But in your youth you had a fascination with what the world would call the 'morbid' or the 'macabre' - in fact it was simply a fascination with those aspects of life which make us all uncomfortable or embarrassed. You were very likely to have been punished for it either directly or through the withholding of love or approval. You were told to keep a lid on it. And that hurt you. It hurt your inner child - specifically it hurt your childlike spontaneity, your guileless urge to share yourself. And less directly that repression impacted your innocent, wanton desire for fun. Your navigational error can take a lot of different forms, depending in partr upon the nature of the rest of your birth chart. But if they break down into two clear categories. The first is an inappropriate expression of the drive for creative pleasure. The second is an unnautral suppression of that drive. In the first category we recognise forms of 'fun' that prove destructive either to yourself or to other people. In all the examples that follow, we observe one common denominator: the unconscious urge to represent, in one's own bodily life, the dark. Down that road we may see a person who consistently gets herself or himself involved in hurtful, unseemly, or empty sexual affairs. We may see the addict or the drunk. We may observe a person who is morbidly obese. Or one in constant, self-created financial dilemmas. The point is that all these behaviours become part of the individual's public 'act'; unwittingly, he or she is symbolising the darker, more taboo aspects of life for the community: the natural human hunger for pleasure run amuck. Such a person may feel out of control and ashamed by these circumstances, or may take an arrogant 'in your face' attitude. Either way, we notice the same critical features marking the behaviour as unconscious. The pleasure-seeking behaviour doesn't work very well: such a person is not actually having much fun. There is an apparent drive, owned or unowned, to make the dysfunction visible to the community. And the individual may inevitably be cited as 'a bad example' by others. All ths is the shadow expression of the high destiny, which would turn the Plutonian juice into art in some form, to be shared with the community in a vastly more healing - and more pleasurable - way. (Steven Forrest) (contd.) The second Plutonian fifth house navigational error lies in an unnatural suppresion or 'demonising' of the same creative, pleasure-seeking drives. There is a wildness in all pleasurable activity, a shadow dimension in everything that fills us with few and life. A person might become so inordinately and unnecessarily frightened of that loss of self-control that he or she withers into a judgemental wet blanket. Then, quite unconsciously, there arises a simultaneous compulsion to limit the pleasure and self-expression in the lives of everyone else. He or she delights in the words 'Thou shalt not', and applies them liberally and equally to self and others. And in the cellar, down in the ashes, behind both that repressive behaviour and the wild, injurious behaviour we explored earlier, is a sad child who heard the word 'No' too many times. The healing method: Many years ago I attended a concert given by the virtuoso jazz guitarist Mahavishnu John McLauglin. I had good seats, and my eyes were bugging out. I play some guitar myself; and while my skills are not within a hundred light-years of McLaughlin's, I knew enough to know that I was in the presence of extraordinary talent. One image remains impressed on my memory: his face contorted in extreme concentration. McLaughlin dazzled me with the fastest guitar lick I'd ever heard. Then his face relaxed; he looked heavenward with an expression of transcendent bliss - and played the same like twice as fast. Creativity has an ecstatic component. While one must certainly make substantial effort to master the techniques, tools, and crafts connected with one's chosen form, there is a place where magic enters the equations. John McLaughlin demonstrated it in his concert that night. The skater who transcends herself and delivers a sublime performance does it too. Or the actor who utterly loses himslef and becomes the role he's playing. Your Healing Method lies in tapping into your latent capacity for that kind of Dionysian creative ecstasy. Maybe you join a drumming circle and find yourself in communion with your pagan ancestors, lost in rhythm trance. Or maybe you quietly take up watercolours and stay up until four in the morning painting a flower arrangement. The shape of the creativity doesn't matter. What matters is that you lose yourself in it, surrender to it, go willingly and intentionally toward that edge beyond which lies madness. Something in you must abandon inhibition and self-consciousness, and learn to roar. The energising vision: In old Welsh culture there was a proverb: 'Three equals: a poet, a harper, and a king'. This seems to me a splendid attitude, and one that is also sound psychologically. Human culture needs inspired leadership - 'kings' - but just as fundamentally we need our 'poets' and our 'harpers': our artists. They uplift us and inspire us. They comfort us in our pain and grief; and sometimes they temper our laughter with wisdom. You are a Plutonian bard; your message may not always be easy for us to hear, but we need to hear it anyway. So convey it to us skilfully and gracefully, with beauty, craft, and patience. And if lightness and laughter enter the message, there's much good to be said about that too. Your art need not be 'heavy' all the time; many times we hear the truth more clearly from a comedian than from a minister. But what if you don't feel like a creative person? In writing these words I am confident that there are readers with fifth house Plutos who will find these ideas foreign. If you're one of them, I have two things to say to you: First, remember that Plutonian creative self-expression must be defined as broadly as possible. Sometimes it comes down to volunteering personal anecdotes that start conversations about sensitive topics: a 'performance' in every sense. Reveal enough of yourself in the tale, and others are encouraged to do the same... even if they do so only inwardly. That's high creativity and healing theatre, just as much as anything that might be more readily identified as 'art'. Second, if you don't feel creative, remember the nature of your Plutonian wound. Earlier experiences of the Big No may have damaged your capacity to abandon yourself fully to your creative energies. You may, in other words, be a lot more creative than you think. If you uncover that creative force in yourself, you'll reap the classic Plutonian benefit: a wealth of wanton, profligate, vital Energy. And you can do with it as you please. IP: Logged |
Chiemi Knowflake Posts: 2110 From: Michigan Registered: Feb 2012
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posted April 23, 2014 05:50 PM
(Jeff Green) Individuals who have Pluto in the Fifth House have been learning the evolutionary lesson of creative self-actualisation. The Fifth House is naturally a fire-oriented archetype. As such, these people will feel as though they have a special destiny to fulfil, just as those with Pluto in the First House do. Individuals with Pluto in the First House needed to maintain freedom and independence in order to discover their specialness through experiences they felt instinctively drawn into. They were in a condition of perpetual discovery on a moment to moment basis. Individuals with Pluto in the Fifth House have needed, and will need, to actualise this special destiny. They will need to establish and project this creative purpose upon the environment. This creative purpose is no longer a matter of discovery, but is already formed, in the Fifth House Pluto - it is inherent and complete. As a result, these individuals will deeply sense this special purpose in the depths of their Souls. The evolutionary desire and need has been, and will be, to fulfil this purpose from within. On this basis, these individuals have also been learning to take charge of their lives, and to seize destiny and shape it out of the strength of their wills. In other words, these people have needed to direct their own plays. Because Fifth House Pluto individuals emerge from the womb with this deep feeling of specialness, they have desires and needs to be recognised and treated as special and unique. These feelings are so intense that they can create a virtually bottomless pit in terms of the need for love, attention and flattery. Whatever is received is never really enough. Although the needs can be temporarily satsified, the compulsive emotional craving for attention, love and adulation drives the individual ever forward for more. Children with Pluto in the Fifth House can create unique tests for their parents because they can go to any length to get recognition, love, and attention, even if it is negative attention. These children can unconsciously manipulate situations, parents and others in order to receive the required attention. They can feel highly threatened or defensive when another child or person is given attention or love, or when the parents themselves show affection toward one another. Of course, this type of emotional behaviour follows the person into adulthood. People with Pluto in the Fifth House can be highly self-centred and self-focused. They can feel as though the universe revolves around them. Just as the Sun is the centre of our solar system, individuals with Pluto in teh Fifth House (the Sun naturally rules the Fifth House) can expect to have all things revolve around them. Yet these individuals must learn to understand that this condition has been the evolutionary intention, desire and need from the past: to creatively actualise and be in charge of their own unique and special purpose. We must strive to understand that Fifth House Pluto individual in this light, and resist the temptation to harshly judge this kind of emotional behaviour in the earlier years of their lives. Even though this orientation will be the theme in all Fifth House Pluto individuals, the variety of mitigating factors that condition and qualify the behavioural manifestation of this orientation will lead to many different kinds of expression. In different examples, the evolutionary theme and necessity are the same. Yet the mitigating factors have conditioned the application and ways to fulfil those evolutionary requirements. With Pluto in the Fifth House, the focus has been, and will be, upon the creative principle. Creativity can be expressed in any dimension of life. It can be expressed through whatever unique and special capabilities the individual has. Because the evolutionary desire and intent from the past has been to actualise and establish the special creative purpose, these individuals have necessarily required an intense inner focus and determination to shape their destinies wirh the strength of their own wills. The mode of operation as symbolised by the South Node, and the vehicles to facilitate the mode of operation symbolised by the planet ruling the South Node, will show how this has been shaped in the past. All Fifth House Pluto individuals will have this need and desire regardless of the evolutionary condition or state. However, the evolutionary state will correlate to and qualify what is and is not possible for them to do with their creative needs. It will also correlate to the areas or external life conditions that it will operate through. One of the karmic and evolutionary problems of this dynamic is that many of these people will consider themselves as the source of their own creativity because individualised (subjective) power is at maximum development or expression with Pluto in the Fifth House. Thus, many will feel that they, and they only, are the directors of their own plays. From a universal point of view, this orientation obviously implies a limitation. All the mitigating factors, and the observed evolutionary conditions, must be assessed to determine to what degree an individual has identified with the creative principle in this way. In the worst scenarios, some of these individuals will consider themselves to be miniature gods who are able to create and destroy reality at will. In all cases, whatever the mitigating factors and karmic conditions, these Fifth House Pluto people have been, and will be, learning to take charge of their lives in order to creatively actualise their own special purpose and destinies. The need to emotionally unite with teh creative principle is the same in all conditions so that this evolutionary need can manifest. How this is done, and the reasons and ways that are kamically determined, will be different in all cases. Because the bottom line in all cases is the Fifth House Pluto, all will feel a sense of special destiny at a core level. All will feel the need to be recognised as special in some way. All will feel the need to express and actualise their creativity, and will feel that they must be in charge of their lives in order to actualise their destinies. When the individual does not receive enough recognition according to his or her specific requirements, then a variety of emotional problems can result. When the individual is either overly identified with the creative principle from an egocentric point of view or experiencing a false sense of powerlessness to actualise the creative principle, then the individual will create or draw conditions that have the effect of counteracting the problem of false identification either way. Of course, varying shades of these two extremes can manifest. The specific pattern or arrangement relative to how the person has identified, applied, and responded to the creative self-actualisation principle will determine the specific kinds of life conditions that are drawn or created to further the development of this evolutionary need in this life. Many of these individuals with Pluto in the Fifth House have had prior lifetimes in which they were recognised as special in some way. As a result, many of these individuals will have unconscious memories of being treated as special by others. In this life, these unconscious memories can lead into a situation wherein they simply expect to be treated and acknowledged in the same way again. They expect that others will cater to their needs, that doors will open before them, that the red carpet will unfurl as they emerge upon the scene of life. These memories can condition and dictate what these individuals think and feel they need in this life. Again, some will manipulate situations and people to receive the desired attention and recognition. This can be done in a variety of ways relative to the specific way that the individual has responded to this evolutionary impulse. As a result of this prioer evolutionary intent, and the associated memories, it is not uncommon for many of these individuals to create what I call the pyramid reality structure in which they place themselves at the very top. Every other factor in their reality structure revolves around and serves them; every other factor is subordinate or secondary to the fulfilment of their own purposes. Again, this can be done in a variety of ways. Because the need for recognition, acknowledgement, and attention can be so compulsive, many Fifth House Pluto individuals are not beyond taking emotional gambles or risks to get the needed attention. With respect to the pyramid reality structure, if the individual is not getting the needed attention or recognition from the point of view of his or her inner reality references, then he or she can threaten to topple his or her existing external reality structures in order to get the required attention. Thus, for example, if an individual is already married and is not receiving the required love and attention that he or she feels is his or her due, then he or she may involve him- or herself in a love affair to get this type of emotional feedback. Such emotional risk-taking can take many forms; but the need for power and recognition will alawys be the underlying theme. In the case of an affair, the individual, of course, runs the risk of being discovered. If the individual is discovered, then the possibility of having the existing reality (the marriage) destroyed would exist. This kind of emotional shock, and the different forms that this shock can assume, will serve to create the necessary blow. This blow will enforce upon the individual the necessary realisations as to where he or she was coming from, and for what reasons. With reference to the pyramid reality structure, many of these individuals will unconsciously manipulate others in order to have their emotional needs fulfilled. In the example where the individual could seek out an affair, he or she could cater to the desires of the potential lover in order to fulfil his or her self-centred desires and needs. As soon as the need is fulfilled, then the person will terminate the emotional risk situation. As an example, a woman who came to see me for astrological counselling was the unwitting victim of such a Fifth House Pluto individual. The man was a very prominent individual, married, and had children. Apparently he was feeling less than satisfied in his marriage. He 'needed' a love affair. My client was a photographer. The Fifth House Pluto man was getting ready to publish a book - which mirrored my client's own wishes linked to her career. He led he on by promising that she could produce the cover for the book; by catering to and manipulating her in this way, he had his own desires met. When the affair ended, he asked someone else to do the cover of the book. My client, of course, felt used. (Jeff Green) (contd.) Fifth House Pluto people can also be quite given to shaping and controlling the lives of those around them, including their children. This can occur because they have been learning how to identify their own special purposes and actualising them through the strengths of their own wills. Thus, it is only natural that they will project this developed inner capacity onto others, since their own Souls resoonate to this vibration. Keep in mind that this process will work in all Fifth House Pluto individuals in some way. Even in certain negative cases, the individual could attempt to shape and control the lives of others in this way: to suggest to others that they have their own self-centred needs and desires met in the very same way that the Fifth House Pluto individual does, i.e. feigning victimisation. This need to shape and control the lives of others can be overtly or covertly stated; and it will manifest in varying degrees of compulsion and intensity. In the worst cases, the individual will subconsciously play God as he or she attempts to direct the lives of others according to what he or she feels or thinks another should or could do. In positive cases, the Fifth House Pluto person will encourage the individual development of those around him or her, because he or she values this need in him- or herself. Yet, even in positive cases, it can be very difficult for the individual to resist the desire to encourage this development according to what he or she thinks is right for the individual. Fifth House Pluto people can be very giving and generous. And yet this giving and apparent generosity is commonly extended only when it suits some personal need. Because there is such a high degree of self-focus, the giving is commonly not related to the actual needs of another, but to what these people thinke the other needs. This emotional complex, of course, is relative to all the other mitigating factors in terms of its degree of fixity and the different lenses - the position of the Nodes and so forth - through which it will be expressed. This dynamic can be difficult for many Fifth House Pluto individuals to understand, because they are giving within their own reality references. However, that is exactly where the probelm lies. In other words, the giving is occurring from within their own reality references, and not others. This orientation can set the stage for emotional scenes and confrontations when others manifest negative feedback in relation to what is being given by the Fifth House Pluto individual. These scenes, when they occur, are necessary because they can serve to undermine the pyramid reality structure of the Fifth House Pluto individual. In their so doing, the individual will begin to experience the effect of the Fifth House polarity point: the Eleventh House. The evolutionary intent described in the Eleventh House polarity is one of developing an objective rather than a subjective consciousness and focus. The individual must learn to link his or her special destiny and creative purpose to a socially useful or relevant function. In order for this evolutionary lesson to be realised, many of these individuals will be blocked or denied in fulfilling their unique purpose. The blocking force will be the social structure itself. This situation can lead to tremendous emotional frustration and anger. Frustration is heightened because society apparently is not acknowledging or recognising the Fifth Hous Pluto individual as special. These people sense within that they have a special destiny to fulfil, yet are blocked in a variety of ways from being able to realise it. Even if they can succeed in some way of actualising some aspect of their creative purpose, they may still experience the lack of enough recognition according to their own estimations of how much they should have. Accepting their lot in life can be very tough as a result. The royal red carpet seems to remain furled, the remembered acclaim but distant memories. By being relatively relegated to the sidelines, these individuals are forced to learn the lessons of objectivity. In addition, they are learning how to become detached from the pyramid structure of their inner reality. Asa result, these individuals may come to realise how to link their purpose to the needs of the whole of society. In so doing, they can contribute to the relevant needs of the whole; and their unique and special gifts can be their function as individuals who will learn that others are just as special as themelves. They can give to society or another in teh ways that are needed as a result of this evolutionary intent. These individuals are learning to be a member of the play, not the director of it. As this process unfolds, the evolutionary metamorphosis will produce people who can now recognise the individuality and needs of their children. This metamorphosis will allow them to guide their lives objectively, rather than wilfully creating their children's identities out of their own self-centred images. it is not uncommon for Fifth House Pluto people to have children who are very strong-willed, self-centred, and resistant to the dictates of their parents. The resulting collision of wills produces the emotional confrontation necessary to induce the lesson of objectivity and detachment. The children can serve as mirrors who reflect the deepest inner dynamics of one or both of the parents. This mirror effect can be quite stark for one or both of the parents, especially if they are emotionally resistant to accepting, admitting, or seeing these similar dynamics in themselves. The evolutionary lessons of the Fifth House Pluto individua must also be passed on and taught to the child. By learning the necessary lessons of objectivity and detachment, Fifth House Pluto individuals can also realise that they are not the source of creativity; they are a channel for the expression of the creative principle in the universe. This fundamental lesson is very important. Until it is fully realised, the creative flow can cyclically dry up or be blocked in order to induve the progressive realisation of the true source of creativity. In this way, these individuals learn how to acknowledge creativty and specialness in others without feeling threatened. Once these evolutionary lessons are put in motion with conscious intent, these individuals can create something new and unique in whatever field of endeavour they are destined to fulfil. That which they create can have uncommon depth and power of a transformative nature. Sometimes this creation may be ahead of its time - the dead artist syndrome. Yet, eventually that which was created will become accepted. These individuals can achieve a degree of fame or acclaim with respect to what they do apply themselves to. They can act as natural leaders and pioneers, and objectively understand how to guide the individual development and actualisation of those that they touch. In some, the natural leadership abilities are a sight to behold. The other day I was watching several children play. They were all four- and five-year-olds. At one point an eighteen month-old baby wandered by tjhese children. This little girl had a tremendously powerful aura. All the four- and five-year-old children stopped what they were doing and began to follow her. Mesmerised, they simply fell into line behind this child. The baby was undaunted, and simply kept walking. After watching this scene, I asked the mother of teh baby if she would give me the birth data for her child. She humoured me and obliged. As it turned out, the little one had Pluto in the Fifth House. This intrinsic leaderhsip capacity created an almost Pied Piper -like effect upon the four- and five-year-olds even though she was only eighteen months old! Common characteristics of Pluto in the Fifth House people include: having tremendous strength of will, being dignified, being creative, needing attention and acknowledgement, being loving, being giving, can issue attention and love upon others, being magnetic, being generally narcissistic, having a king or queen complex, being powerful and intense at a core level, can be quite demanding in overt or covert ways, being suspicious of yet needing flattery, and being very protective of those close to them. IP: Logged |
Chiemi Knowflake Posts: 2110 From: Michigan Registered: Feb 2012
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posted April 23, 2014 05:54 PM
(Ulla Palomaki) The fifth house is related to Leo, so it represents values like specialisation and individuality. The individual has a strong feeling that he has a special destiny, an important mission to accomplish. It may be an authentic feeling of being a human being among other human beings, but egocentrism is likely to be quite well-developed with this house position. It is the opposite house of the eleventh house, which concerns larger humanity and the whole. the fifth house concerns the personality of the individual and his personal needs and desires. The special mission is probably based on very personal needs and on the need to draw attention to the self or to be considered someone exceptional. His special mission or task in life my directly derive from personal charisma or an exceptional outlook or style. He is able to conquer with his charisma, which is always of a mysterious nature. This planetary position is not suitable for politics (if other planets do not contradict), because collective power is not easily used by him. The concept of power (Pluto) is tightly connected to his personal charisma nd not to the collective whole, so he could be lured by corruption. If he is found in politics, he could advocate a cause with too much emotion. The power of the individual is often in his mysterious, animalistic magnetism. Pluto in the fifth house is apt to make a personality that is a channel for strength and power to other people. The depth and demanding nature of Pluto finds the best outlets in fifth house matters like show business, entertainment and arts. The individual has the cosmic right to influence others with the strength of his being, with a special style and with charisma, to draw people to movie theatres and concert halls. Influence must be dissociated from abuse. The relationship with children (fifth house) may be very strong and powerful. Power is probably connected to children so that there is a tendency to control them too much. Children may constitute a turning point in the life of the individual. Sometimes it is a difficulty or fear related to conception. Children may contribute strongly to the spiritual development of the individual. One woman, for example, joined a meditation group after her son had discovered it. Love life and free time have a deeper meaning with this position. Sometimes the individual has an irresistible need to intensify experience. Deep inside he knows hat these experiences given him transformation and a possibility to grow spiritually. At worst, passion leads to fruitless destruction. The fifth house symbolism includes games and gambling. So, anything is possible in these matters with Pluto. (Pluto = riches.) One of the most impressive outlets for Pluto in the fifth house is in connecting arts with psychology. IP: Logged |
Kibriana Knowflake Posts: 322 From: Zagreb, Croatia Registered: Nov 2012
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posted April 23, 2014 06:12 PM
I have this placement of Pluto, but in Libra, and, to be completely honest, I don't see myself in the interpretations I've come across so far. I attribute some of the traits that could be connected with the 5th house Pluto to other aspects such as my 12th house Venus (obsession) or my Aries Sun (passion). I don't see myself as a creative person and I don't get obsessed with hobbies, and I certainly don't have a strong desire to express myself artistically. Similarly, I do things for other people without them knowing it or expecting anything in return. I'm not charismatic, I don't like to be the center of someone's attention. I am protective when it comes to my friends, but again, that might be my 11th house Aries Sun. Still, because of my completely messed up Venus I've never really had a chance to address romantic issues connected to the 5th house, so it is quite possible that Pluto would influence the way I behave in romantic relationships, but I just don't know it yet. We'll see what the natal/transit Pluto / square next year will bring me.
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lotus_flower Knowflake Posts: 798 From: Virginia Registered: Nov 2010
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posted April 23, 2014 06:48 PM
Good for drive and ambition!IP: Logged |
StubbornOne Knowflake Posts: 53 From: Singapore Registered: Mar 2014
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posted April 23, 2014 10:44 PM
Pluto in Scorpio in 5th. Hello Cancer Ascs It is relatively unaspected though so I don't know if I feel it. My year has Pluto trine Chiron in Cancer, both retrograde.Can relate to the creativity part, have a huge urge to be creative, which is why I'm taking math in college. Used to feel threatened by others' when they come up with something, since it meant I wasn't good enough to think of that. It still means I'm not good enough, but I've grown to admire rather than resent them. There's always something to learn  The giving part is one of the hardest questions, am considered a "kind" person but am always doubting my own intentions, and recently discovered that I don't react well when my gesture is trampled on. So definitely not an altruistic person :\ Inexperienced with relationships but I think one should be passionate and lasting IP: Logged |
wishfish Knowflake Posts: 40 From: NY Registered: Feb 2014
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posted May 04, 2014 11:35 AM
5th house Pluto 24Virgo conj. South Node 00Libra conj. Uranus AND Jupiter. IP: Logged |
vansio Knowflake Posts: 1980 From: the outskirts of Delphi Registered: Dec 2017
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posted November 25, 2020 05:35 AM
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vansio Knowflake Posts: 1980 From: the outskirts of Delphi Registered: Dec 2017
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posted September 16, 2021 05:40 AM
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CardinalT-Square Knowflake Posts: 383 From: Registered: Aug 2017
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posted September 18, 2021 12:20 AM
This thread might as well read "Cancer Ascendants! What is Pluto Doing in Your Chart?"😉😆On a more serious note though...It makes me a very intense guy when I find a woman I'm attracted to, I can stare at her all day and never get bored of her. Unfortunately, when the attraction and intensity is reciprocated it sometimes makes me kind of shy away and start to make a cat n' mouse game out of it because the woman will start making sacrifices for me that just seem out of character and untraditional, like ending her current relationship or sending the husband on a wild goose chase to get rid of him long enough to get down n' dirty with me. These Red-Flags really make me nervous and cause me to dance around the game of commitment. IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 148315 From: I hold a Juris Doctorate (J.D.) and a Legum Magister (LL.M.)! Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 26, 2021 12:07 PM
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Randall Webmaster Posts: 148315 From: I hold a Juris Doctorate (J.D.) and a Legum Magister (LL.M.)! Registered: Apr 2009
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posted October 06, 2021 05:40 PM
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