posted December 07, 2012 02:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LionFish:
I'm a Pisces Sun 3rd decan

I do have a tendency to get my way, but I don't do it by playing the damsel in distress. Or a victim. Who wants to listen to somebody whine/complain? Ugh.

I DO feel other people's emotions, sometimes quite intensely even from strangers. Which is why I've learned to walk away from situations and come back to them when they are more to my liking or at least just don't leave me so frazzled. If that's manipulation so be it.

I've also seen a lot of "Pisces don't even realize they're manipulating when they do it" on this thread... Don't you have to be AWARE of your actions for it to be considered manipulation?

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What am i feeling right now.. do tell :laugh:

posted December 07, 2012 02:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sand:
Pisces do it in an indirect way. Harder to detect IMO.

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posted December 07, 2012 04:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by KarkaQueen:
What am i feeling right now.. do tell :laugh:

I am a Cancer Sun Pisces Decan with Neptune conjunct my ASC opposite Sun ( How many times did I mention this ) Oh and did I say I am a pretty good liar

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Sarcastic and possibly a touch of narcissism?
Shall I clarify and say: I feel the emotions of people I'm around PHYSICALLY.

@sand

posted December 07, 2012 06:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LionFish:
Sarcastic and possibly a touch of narcissism?
Shall I clarify and say: I feel the emotions of people I'm around PHYSICALLY.

@sand

I can sorta see that. A very close, long-time friend of mine is a Pisces and he has a way of "making" people do what he wants, sometimes without them even realizing they did it against their own wishes. I've seen him do it a million times to a thousand different people, but never thought anything of it. Everybody works the world to get what they desire.. Don't they?

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posted December 09, 2012 02:38 AM            

Scorpio is too obvious with it.

A Pisces will do it to you and you won't even realize until after the fact.

posted December 09, 2012 02:44 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by LionFish:

I've also seen a lot of "Pisces don't even realize they're manipulating when they do it" on this thread... Don't you have to be AWARE of your actions for it to be considered manipulation?

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I believe you about feeling people's emotions LionFish Pisces are often empathic signs.

posted December 09, 2012 04:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
I believe you about feeling people's emotions LionFish Pisces are often empathic signs.

I also think you have to be aware of your actions for it to be considered malicious. I do believe you can manipulate people and not realize it. I get accused of manipulating people all the time when I feel like I'm just being normal - I have Mars in Gemini, in the 12th house.

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Absolutely. All this about being able people trying to manipulate people "without realising they're doing it". It simply doesn't exist, and if it does it does not fall under the definition of MANIPULATION.

This should have been done at the start of the thread;
Oxford Dictionary definition of manipulation - 3. "To tamper with or falsify for personal gain"

and:

2 "the action of manipulating someone in a clever or unscrupulous way"

To be a manipulator you have to be aware you're doing it.

posted December 09, 2012 04:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Maelstrom:

Absolutely. All this about being able people trying to manipulate people "without realising they're doing it". It simply doesn't exist, and if it does it does not fall under the definition of MANIPULATION.

This should have been done at the start of the thread;
Oxford Dictionary definition of manipulation - 3. "To tamper with or falsify for personal gain"

and:

2 "the action of manipulating someone in a clever or unscrupulous way"

To be a manipulator you have to be aware you're doing it.

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Actually none of those definitions mention anything about conscious awareness of manipulating someone. They say strictly that you're doing something to someone to benefit yourself in the end.

Which, a person can absolutely do without being aware that they're doing it. Remember the subconscious, and just the plain fact that the vast majority of people aren't really that self-aware where their own actions and personal motivations are concerned.

Like Hanna mentioned, I get the same thing all the time where I'm being accused by everybody (even family members) of manipulating people and situations. Is it true? Maybe, maybe not, I have no idea. I only know that I personally don't see it that way, and don't sit around and consciously attempt to manipulate people.

But absolutely, from an outside standpoint (I have nothing in Pisces, and nothing other than my chart ruler in Scorpio), Pisces and Scorpios in general do tend to lean toward manipulative tendencies; all the ones I've known (and I've known more than a few), do tend to try to "play chess" with real people to get to something they want. Pisces does it I think from a less conscious place, and they're far better at it than Scorpio, who I think usually does it intentionally, and actually sits down and premeditates it before they act on it.

posted December 09, 2012 07:33 AM            

I am always open minded when debating a point so after reading your post I researched "unconcious manipulation" and I did come across articles (particularly those related to NLP) that suggest it is possible. To me personally, it defeats the point of "manipulation" as I always believed that a manipulator was someone fully aware of their actions. But it seems there is such a thing as unconscious manipulation.

posted December 09, 2012 10:57 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by KarkaQueen:
Pisces Adonis.. wait

You're that guy from ...

Omg .. its me Zoisite/Lunarian Princess.. Fancy meeting you here again

Also the manipulator I posted on Aqua thread is a Pisces Sun Scorpio Rising..

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So you've been around here much longer than I have I see! I wonder we haven't spotted each other here yet?I've been making lots and lots of thread here , a few of them quite controversial (ask RedScorp and Maelstrom) . I've also learned a lot about Astrology in my loooooonnnnggg break from SMF (and will be planning to post lots of new threads concerning Aspects and more advanced stuff),

quote:

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Originally posted by KarkaQueen:
If I remember you were a Leo Moon Pisces Sun Scorpio rising, right???

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posted December 10, 2012 04:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Pisces Adonis:
I've been making lots and lots of thread here , a few of them quite controversial (ask RedScorp and Maelstrom) .

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posted December 10, 2012 11:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
I believe you about feeling people's emotions LionFish Pisces are often empathic signs.

I also think you have to be aware of your actions for it to be considered malicious. I do believe you can manipulate people and not realize it. I get accused of manipulating people all the time when I feel like I'm just being normal - I have Mars in Gemini, in the 12th house.

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Thanks hanna When I was young I actually thought I was an emotional vampire because I felt things so acutely. But I realize now, I don't "take" these feelings from people. I just feel them so I know how to act/how to help them. I get "How did you know?" so often I don't even try to answer with a logical explanation anymore lol

@Maelstrom

I think Pisces CAN be manipulative, very much so. But I agree that unconscious manipulation doesn't quite fit my definition of manipulation. If somebody doesn't know or intend to manipulate with their words or actions, isn't it just them acting out their wants or needs?

Unconscious manipulation sounds like a load of BS to me personally. I could be wrong, but what it sounds to me is like somebody didn't want to get caught being a manipulator so they "omg, i didn't even realize that's what I was doing!" (granted this was probably a Pisces) And said Pisces smiled and cried a little, and please forgive me, I'll never do it again (until I have to, and I'll make it seem like an accident then, too.)

posted December 10, 2012 04:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LionFish:

@Maelstrom

I think Pisces CAN be manipulative, very much so. But I agree that unconscious manipulation doesn't quite fit my definition of manipulation. If somebody doesn't know or intend to manipulate with their words or actions, isn't it just them acting out their wants or needs?

Unconscious manipulation sounds like a load of BS to me personally. I [b]could be wrong, but what it sounds to me is like somebody didn't want to get caught being a manipulator so they "omg, i didn't even realize that's what I was doing!" (granted this was probably a Pisces) And said Pisces smiled and cried a little, and please forgive me, I'll never do it again (until I have to, and I'll make it seem like an accident then, too.)

I've watched my male Pisces friend do that ^^^ more than a few times. And done it a few times myself. Scary how well it works. My point here is that Pisces KNOWS what they are doing when they manipulate. Don't be fooled by the sweet smile and tear rolling down the cheek, you're being manipulated again..[/B]

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yeah I'm still not sold on the idea of "unconscious" manipulation. But as so many were suggesting it I decided to look into it and most of the sites that used the phrase "unconscious manipulation" were related to counselling and Neuro Linguistic programming. So it seems people do believe it exists.

You know ironically enough I am, as we speak, having an "issue" with an old Pisces (now ex) friend. I dont know if she is being manipulative or just downright passive aggressive. Either way, for my own sanity I've had to close it down/put a stop to it once and for all. So I too have been on the recieving end of that behaviour. I dont want to bash Pisces, far from it - I AM one!!!! But I cant stand passive-aggressive behaviour and that's what I got from her.

It just strengthens my resolve - calm and assertive, not passive-aggressive manipulation (now there's a new one HAHA!)

posted December 10, 2012 07:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Pisces Adonis:
Depends on the placements.

A Scorpio Sun with a Pisces Rising will be waaaaayyyyy sweeter and nicer than the stereotypical Scorpio Sun.

Now a Pisces Sun with a Scorpio Rising (especially in the first decanate) and especially if he is on the dark side......

Even a "good" Pisces with a Scorpio Rising will be much more aggressive

HINT-I WAS ALL of the ABOVE

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Thank you for that !!

I'm a Scorpio sun and a Pisces ascendant. I'm actually quite pleasant...and I feel manipulation is a karmic no-no.

posted December 11, 2012 12:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by starmoon:
i'll vote pisces because the question was about manipulation. i don't think scorpios are manipulators as much as plotters and revenge-seekers. but in the long run scorpio is gonna win out because of stamina - pisces are rather lazy

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In Pisces defense, my Pisces boyfriend is a really hard worker but all of his Pisces planets are in the 10th. But, I know what you mean

posted March 31, 2017 01:56 AM            

Btw, his "inner circle" gives advice on how to pick up and manipulate women via astrology (and other mysticism, aka "chick crack"):
http://www.neilstrauss.com/the-game/the-esoteric-arts-and-seduction/

That's more of a tease to get pathetic men to pay (but it probably does work on some women). This one gives a specific example of how talking about astrology can get women to open up to learn her secrets and use them against her later:
http://mysticmedusa.com/2010/04/how-to-use-astrology-to-pick-up-chicks-lol/

I got looking into this as I watched this fun show on PUA (Pick Up Artist) or Serial Killer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snj6iS5KuGk

And then found Neil Strauss is a Pisces.

On a more general note, surely it's easier for a Pisces to be manipulative as they don't have the Scorpio paranoia constantly getting in the way.

posted March 31, 2017 02:11 AM            

although the style is different...pisces lures you in by tempting you to share amazing experiences with them, they might do a sweet/tempting kind of "manipulation" to get you on board with whatever game/fantasy they're playing in their own world; scorpio does manipulation out of the need to maintain control over you (and over themselves too)

also, scorpio is a fixed signs, and the nature of all fixed people is a bit more self-centered, meaning that they rarely care "too much" about someone else to go out of their way to convince or change others..they're often the people who take things as they are

I'm a pisces moon myself (trine pluto, also in both the scorpio decan and duad), although it's in my 9th; I suppose I would have been more in-your-face manipulating if I had moon in 8th or 6th for instance

God forbid if someone has both prominent gemini along with scorpio or pisces; they can be master players!
I actually was captivated by one of them for years, my pisces moon just went along with almost anything they did or asked, until one day I had enough

posted March 31, 2017 02:26 AM            

I once had a Pisces friend who would manipulate people into believing her birthday was on Valentine's Day!

One day I realized, and searched a forum, then saw that two years ago, her 'birthday' was on February 17!

She changes her birthday every two years, or so. I caught up with her games and called her out.

posted March 31, 2017 02:28 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sulkyarcher:
Pisces.

I once had a Pisces friend who would manipulate people into believing her birthday was on Valentine's Day!

One day I realized, and searched a forum, then saw that two years ago, her 'birthday' was on February 17!

She changes her birthday every two years, or so. I caught up with her games and called her out.

Turns out her real birthday was on February 22. Her three best friends told me. They told me they knew she lied about her birthday to everyone else.

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posted March 31, 2017 02:54 AM            

Normally I don't bring up the topic of religion into public forums, but look at Osama Bin Laden (Pisces) he manipulated people into religious extremism. Off topic I'm no Islamaphob I have some Islamic friends. I just know the difference between the moderates and the extremists.

With Scorpio you already know your dealing with a lose cannon.

They might have already thrown a fit about something completely unrelated. Might be as simple as someone parking on the line in a shopping center.

After witnessing there "wraith launched" at another person you know to keep an eye out for them and that makes them less effective.

The whole idea of manipulation is knowing how to coerce people into doing things without realizing it, Pisces wins it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pisces-Sweety:
Neither. Nobody beats Gemini.

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Funny I should say there was a Scorpio that I worked with she would always try to manipulate people, but people were aware.

I used manipulation to destroy a manipulative Scorpio. I played Mr Nice Innocent Gemini and she would always be on a rampage. I was also the youngest in the office and was viewed as a raising star.

There's nothing she could do because just by being her natural scorpio self she would always make herself look bad, I played on that.

That story fits in because I think Pisces would play innocent all the time and its believable.

While with Scorpio its almost expected behavior that they will try to sting you somehow.