posted January 07, 2013 02:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lonake:
Ceri: Are we looking for similarities or just reading it in total?

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It depends.

Different astrologers treat harmonic charts differently.

Well, harmonic charts actually highlight aspects of a certain aspect-family.
In the case of the 12th harmonic the 30° aspects are emphasized, so our "natural zodiac", which is why I suddenly found it so interesting to check.

If you have an aspect, any aspect out of this series, in the natal chart it will show up as conjunction in the 12t harmonic chart.
Of course orbs matter, especially in harmonic chart.
An aspect of one degree in the natal chart will have an orb of 12 degrees in the 12th harmonic chart.
That is why you can`t really see wider aspects in the harmonic charts.
It also shows how an existing aspect in the natal chart will not resonate through all harmonic charts, if it is not very tight.

Harmonic astrologers would emphasize to only check the 12th harmonic with 12th harmonic in synastry, or just look for aspects in the 12th harmonic chart itself, but NEVER mix it with the natal chart.
They probably would not even take the signs into account very much, but just emphasize the aspects and the pattern, though some harmonic astrologers occasionally also take the signs into consideration.

Other astrologers however like Cathy Burroughs or Vedic astrologers (if I am informed right) or Alice Portman, treat the harmonic chart as symbolic charts, and not so much as a magnifying glass for a certain aspect (that is of course a byproduct anyway).
And they WOULD compare it to the natal chart (though personally I would limit that to conjunctions and oppositions), to see how the internal experience aligns with the external expression.

So I guess it depends what you choose.
If an aspect that is already there in natal, appears again in the 12th harmonic it shows that it must be a very important theme.

I probably would base the interpretation of harmonic charts first from interpreting the aspect pattern in that chart with consideration of signs and elements, and in a second step have an eye on what planets are "docking" onto natal planets and might have a gateway to external expression through this. Similiar to how I interprete Draconic charts.

Most harmonic astrologers would interprete the 4th, 5th and 9th harmonic; first of because it highlights the square family (4th), the quintiles (5th) and the noviles - and the trinovile is our trine aspect- (9th) and also because the 9th has been traditionally treated as "marriage chart", though of course we are mixing Vedic and tropical astrology here.

I got interested in the 12th harmonic because of its relation to the zodiac (and I think the Indians used it as well, and of course this is really a Dwad chart).

posted January 07, 2013 05:13 PM            

Interesting to note....so heacy scorpio karmic influence, and I have 3 planets their natally. And a lot of cancer. I dont seem to struggle with cancer influence, its s relief because these planets trine my natal stellium in pisces and trine my natal scorpio planets.

posted January 07, 2013 08:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Lotis White,

very interesting.

Though I wouldn`t really associate the 12th harmonic with imagination (in the sense of fantasy, non reality), but more with some internal processes.
Or did you mean it like that?

I found it too funny how my 12th harmonic chart is all Air. I have always thought that my natal chart had too little air to explain my obsession with intellectual occupations, analysis etc. (well Moon is in Air of course).

The aspects also make a lot of sense.

Mercury opposite Neptune - okay, maybe it has to do with fantasy after all.

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Hi Ceri,

I guess I was thinking of the 12th harmonic as similar to the 12th house, or a semi-sextile. That it would represent our hidden mental processing, and private thoughts… What we do when we’re alone, or when we wish to escape from the mundane and ordinary reality of our everyday lives. Kind of like our way of retreating and recharging when we need to. I guess our imagination is just one avenue for doing this. With a bunch or Air in your 12th harmonic it could mean that your way of escaping when you need some peace is to immerse yourself in intellectual concerns and to figure things out. My interpretation of my 12th harmonic Gemini Sun and Aquarius Asc would be the same. Figuring out astrological things is tremendously fun and makes for an excellent break from the world for me. Not that astrology is ‘unreal’ so much as it allows me to recharge and have some peace. It’s my private haven. Along with a few other things which also relate quite well to my 12th harmonic chart.

That’s my take anyway: That the 12th harmonic is about our private thoughts and feelings, and how we escape from the ordinary. This is usually what we do when we’re alone, and we need to process some things in private before marching out into the world again. But I guess some people might actually find their escape through joining a group or being part of a team. People can also escape through various kinds of fantasy, and imaginative/creative endeavors…. Which allows them to separate themselves from their daily concerns by ‘becoming someone else’ for while. Although, someone with a bunch of Virgo in their 12th harmonic might actually find peace of mind cleaning their house, or organizing their things... Rather then spacing out watching movies, or lying around listening to music all day.

Ceri, was your take on the 12th harmonic something similar to this?

posted January 07, 2013 11:58 PM            

I pretty much agree with you, except that I don´t see it as "escape". That`s got such a negative touch.

But I agre that it has to do with internal, private processes, that might not be apparent on the surface, but nevertheless influence our external expression.

posted January 08, 2013 12:28 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by inthemisosoup:
Heres my 12th harmonic

Interesting to note....so heacy scorpio karmic influence, and I have 3 planets their natally. And a lot of cancer. I dont seem to struggle with cancer influence, its s relief because these planets trine my natal stellium in pisces and trine my natal scorpio planets.

My asc here is conjunct exact my venus/pluto conjunction I have in the natal.
The n. Node here is square to my aqua asc.
My mc is opposit3 my natal sun.
Mercury in pisces conjunct natal mars...
The venus in cancer is opposite my bf's mars and on h. Dsc.
My sun here sits close to my natal south node.
Plus 3 weak planets: mercury in pisces, mars in cancer, sun in libra.

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posted January 08, 2013 06:41 AM            

"Yes, the age harmonic did fit very well. I havnt taken a look at my 26th yet but am looking forward to getting some direction from it."
I think I got to look at mine, too. Somehow I never continued that. Would you like to have a look at mine and I have a look at yours?

"hat I find intersting in it even more though is that I have a YOD which Uranus and Jupiter are pointing or "pushing" from their royalties(which makes them exceptionally strong) to my Pluto. Why I say pushing is becuase I have a YOD natally as well. "
That is very important.

The 12th harmonic is actually the Yod-harmonic, as it is the only chart that highlights the quinkunx and semisextile aspects.
The other aspects also occur in other harmonics as well.

"Now with you saying "basic pattern of destiny" as a term for the 12th harmonic, I really agree with that one. I feel Jupiterian and Uranian energies push what I may be passionate about on a more unknown level."
Yes, that makes sense.

It also seems to be very interesting in synastric terms, especially the exact aspects. Wow! This just makes SO MUCH SENSE. lol

posted January 08, 2013 06:46 AM            

what really stands out to me in your 12th harmonic chart, is the emphasis on water and air. Being extremely sensitive and intellectual at the same time.
This ASC-uranus-conjunction in Aquarius shows there is this independent streak underneath, very original and capable of thinking "out of the box". Though since it is the 12th chart, it may not be as obvious on the surface, unless you have it in your natal chart as well.
In some instances there might also be an inner restlessness at times, especially if you feel like someone is trying to tie you down.

The thing is you can be extremely loyal and devoted, and are very caring and need deep emotional connections, but all of that only works if it is based on your free will. And I guess someone who interests you, would need to provide a lot of intellectual stimulation as well.

posted January 08, 2013 08:44 AM            

It`s a point where we are most vulnerable.

I put it like this here:

"Chiron is strange.
But in a strange way it is also deep soulstuff, I find that it renders someone completely vulnerable. As if you had shed every protective skin, and you can only hope the other one will not hurt you so much, that it might destroy you. Sort of like your core lies totally open, and you don`t have any kind of defenses."
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/002491-2.html

Unlike Saturn however you probably don´t even really try to get defensive (Chiron was open to all kind of people after all); it may be your weakest spot, but there is no way to really cover it.
As it lays so bare, and you experience some kind of wound or sensitivity, there comes a deep wisdom with it (at least after you faced it and accepted it as part of yourself), and from that point on you can start helping others.

posted January 08, 2013 08:46 AM            

conjunction: 6°
opposition: 3°
trine: 2°
square: 1°30
sextile: 1°00

half of the natal orbs for harmonics.

posted January 08, 2013 10:00 AM            

quote:

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However, in a Venus-Chiron-aspect I think it depends how you react to your Chiron. It can be wounding or healing through love and affection.

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*crosses fingers*

I see.. Those orbs are pretty wide.. Cool though..

posted January 08, 2013 01:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sand:
*crosses fingers*

I see.. Those orbs are pretty wide.. Cool though..

What about my 12th harmonic ascendant conjunct her natal descendant. I searched but too many common keywords I assume for other topics.

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ASC conjunct DESC.
The one person embodies what the other is seeking or is attract to in a relationship. This is more about "partner-potential" than sexual sizzle though.

However, in your case it is a cross aspect from 12th harmonic to natal (keep in mind that many astrologers would not even count these).
It also means that her natal ASC is conjunct your 12th DESC. If the 12th harmonic chart relates to internal "SElf" (and as of now I work with this hypothesis), it could mean that how she is, what she is radiating, even how she looks in a very instnctual (without thinking, sponaneous) way, might speak to you on a very deep level.
Even if she is not your type (because maybe your natal DESC is not triggered), she will touch some deep spot inside of you.
Maybe for karmic reasons, maybe because it represents a deeper soul-layer, or just because she touches on an "internal image" you have of your Anima, and she seems to embody this.
Of course adverse aspects to your natal DESC can override this, but still you will feel some sort of magnetism that is hard to explain.

BTW it might also mean that a very internal part of yourself, a very private one (12th harmonic) might come really close to what she is seeking in a relationship.

posted January 08, 2013 02:13 PM            

Oh man look at all that Pisces.. ugh! And all the aspects my Venus in Scorpio makes

posted January 08, 2013 02:52 PM            

yours looks so fitting.
The deep internal emotionalism, intense and spiritual.
And then with the Mars-Pluto-conjunction trine Venus. Still maintaining the Moon-neptune-conjunction, and connecting it to Mars.
I see a lot of passion there, and only Virgo Sun trying her best to keep it in check, observe and taking care that everything is "alright".

Still Uranus on the DESC completing that GT in water; a little revolutionary (especially in relationships) living inside of you, spicing things up even more?

posted January 08, 2013 08:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
ASC conjunct DESC.
The one person embodies what the other is seeking or is attract to in a relationship. This is more about "partner-potential" than sexual sizzle though.

However, in your case it is a cross aspect from 12th harmonic to natal (keep in mind that many astrologers would not even count these).
It also means that her natal ASC is conjunct your 12th DESC. If the 12th harmonic chart relates to internal "SElf" (and as of now I work with this hypothesis), it could mean that how she is, what she is radiating, even how she looks in a very instnctual (without thinking, sponaneous) way, might speak to you on a very deep level.
Even if she is not your type (because maybe your natal DESC is not triggered), she will touch some deep spot inside of you.
Maybe for karmic reasons, maybe because it represents a deeper soul-layer, or just because she touches on an "internal image" you have of your Anima, and she seems to embody this.
Of course adverse aspects to your natal DESC can override this, but still you will feel some sort of magnetism that is hard to explain.

BTW it might also mean that a very internal part of yourself, a very private one (12th harmonic) might come really close to what she is seeking in a relationship.

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Oh she is v much my type. We have mars venus natally. Venus rules my dc.

posted January 08, 2013 08:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Violet,

"Yes, the age harmonic did fit very well. I havnt taken a look at my 26th yet but am looking forward to getting some direction from it."
I think I got to look at mine, too. Somehow I never continued that. Would you like to have a look at mine and I have a look at yours?

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Oh sure, that is a great idea...you can post yours too and I will give it a shot..here is mine..

posted January 08, 2013 08:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Violet,

what really stands out to me in your 12th harmonic chart, is the emphasis on water and air. Being extremely sensitive and intellectual at the same time.
This ASC-uranus-conjunction in Aquarius shows there is this independent streak underneath, very original and capable of thinking "out of the box". Though since it is the 12th chart, it may not be as obvious on the surface, unless you have it in your natal chart as well.
In some instances there might also be an inner restlessness at times, especially if you feel like someone is trying to tie you down.

The thing is you can be extremely loyal and devoted, and are very caring and need deep emotional connections, but all of that only works if it is based on your free will. And I guess someone who interests you, would need to provide a lot of intellectual stimulation as well.

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You are very on target with all that. I am Air and Water natally as well. Basically, I am very much just emotions and intellect. It is in my basic nature to think outside the box always but I also hold my emotions very close. I think about this often, I can always see all the possible outcomes of everyting but my fall back is often my emotions. I like to feel and think things through and through just so I can assure myself I am not being disloyal to my true feelings. I'd *like* to think it is a healthy balance mostly.

Yes, I do not and *cannot* connect unless there is a intellectual equilibrium. I mean that is all that we really are anyway. All the other factors can be compromised imo. And yes it is an obvious fact that only someone that truly understands you can give you the freedom that suites you.

I had looked up the 12th harmonic of my bf yesterday and I was really amazed. His 12th harmonic Venus is exactly conjunct my 12th harmonic Sun. Want to know whats really interesting here? His natal Venus is also exactly conjunt my natal Sun! He also has a Air Grand Trine in his 12th. Connections I tell you!

posted January 09, 2013 12:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
lol Hera,

yours looks so fitting.
The deep internal emotionalism, intense and spiritual.
And then with the Mars-Pluto-conjunction trine Venus. Still maintaining the Moon-neptune-conjunction, and connecting it to Mars.
I see a lot of passion there, and only Virgo Sun trying her best to keep it in check, observe and taking care that everything is "alright".

Still Uranus on the DESC completing that GT in water; a little revolutionary (especially in relationships) living inside of you, spicing things up even more?

NOt bad for a natally unaspected Venus, hu?

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