posted January 19, 2014 02:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by tgem:
Yeah I can totally see this dynamic between the 7th and the 9th- check this synastry with SM: (max 3 degrees)

Yes, I always felt our relationship was very fated, a ton of romance and fantasy and OMG obsessive!

So, 7th harmonic synastry:
My ASC conjunct his sun
My ASC conjunct his Pluto
My Pluto conjunct his sun
My Juno conjunct his neptune

However, when it came to the 7th harmonic synastry I find a totally different dynamic:
My mars conjunct his jupiter
My ASC conjunct his jupiter
My jupiter conjunct his Saturn

So interesting Ceri! This explains ALOT!!!

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posted January 19, 2014 02:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Hera:
I am looking at ours, from what I noticed my Moon makes a lot of squares to BB's planets in the 9th harmonic. But I am sure we have some nice aspects too.

Ceri, what orbs do you use in harmonics?

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Hera,

I am using the suggested orbs of David Hamblin (it is half the orb he uses for radical harmonics). he also pays most attention to the close aspects. I add the orbs for close aspects in brackets.

conjunction: 6° (1°)
opposition: 3° (30`)
trine: 2° (20`)
square: 1°30 (15`)
sextile: 1° (10`)
semisextil/
quinkunx: 30`(05`)

These are the orbs used if you are looking at the harmonic charts. Only the conjunction in these charts reveals the aspect series in the radix.

For example:
only conjunctions in 5th harmonic chart show the quintile series in the radical chart (and sometimes the conjnctions are not even a 5th harmonic aspect radically, but a conjunction).

An opposition in the 5th harmonic, actually means there is a 10th harmonic aspect in natal.

I tend to use roundabout one degree for pretty much every minor aspect in the natal chart.

In the 5th harmonic that relates to 5 degree-conjunction, in the 7th harmonic to 7 degree-conjunction, in the 9th harmonic to 9 degree conjunction.

I also pay the most attention first to the conjunctions, (and opposition), as the conjunctions alert me to the possibility of a harmonic triangle natally, and the oposition is important if there is a midpoint picture present.

Though even if a partner connects to a harmonic aspect/ triangle, it does not necessarily mean there is a midpoint picture involved with this.
I do think however if these several occurences happen, it is even more significant, (though the aspects alone are significant on their own as well). It just seems more intense, if a partner occupies what I call the "fulfillment-point" of a harmonic triangle.

I have a widish 5th harmonic aspect (a quintile with an orb of 1°09 natally - well I view it as wide, Hamblin actually allows over 2° for the quintile aspect.lol) between Venus and Juno.

Jude Law`s (he got my attention, and so I think the 5th harmonic might be apt for this, relating not only to some sexual attraction - not that apt in this case- but also having a lot to say aobut creativity and art) 10th house Uranus (!) sort of links into that.

His Uranus is widely quintile my Venus (1°27)
and pretty exactly biquintile my Juno (0°18).

Of course this means that his Uranus connects to my Venus-Juno, closing a 5th harmonic triangle. However, his Uranus is NOT on the fulfillmentpoint of my Venus/Juno - that would be on 11°32 Leo, the far midpoint of my Venus/Juno, and the point which is biquintile to both my Venus and Juno.

I still think his Uranus makes itself felt (using tight orbs as I do, I feel quite safe considering outer planets, especially considering the situation).

It is just not at that hotspot. A planet on the hotspot probably would have been more like a burning glass, bundling/ concentrating and reflecting back the light or energy of the two planets in my chart (Venus/Juno).
On the exact fulfillment point 11 Leo it would have been some sort of automatic response, triggering Venus/Juno in me.
On the opposing degree (because ther is an opposition) it would have been more of a mirroring effect, or a reflection, raising the awareness of this in me and in turn activating it

Remember Paul from years ago?
his Saturn actually fell onto 10 Aquarius. LOL
Even by impossibility and nay-saying, awareness can get raised I suppose. so it makes sense to me.

But still Law`s Uranus is a missing link for my Venus-Juno to make it a triangle and therefore getting the energy flowing, it is just not at a balance point, because the aspect it makes are a quintile and a biquintile. While both are belonging to the same series, 5th harmonic, they ARE different aspects, different lengths, and probably there are subtle differences in meaning too.

At least as far as I understand it as of now.

posted January 19, 2014 02:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Wow, Tgem.
I don`t know which is the 7th and which the 9th, as you labelled both as 7th, but the distinction is very interesting.

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posted January 19, 2014 02:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Hi Ceri. Is 8th harmonic useful too when it comes to synastry?

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Yes, it is the summary of the dynamic/ tension aspects, opposite, square, semisquare, sesisquare, and including the conjunction.

Probably a lot of dynamic activity there. But depending on the nature of the planets it could be also quite challenging.

EDIT:
Close squares in 4th harmonic, or close oppositions/ squares in 8th harmonic might describe areas of incompatibility or at least difficulty and maybe even aggression,d epending on the symbolism of the planets involved.

posted January 19, 2014 03:09 PM            

Both Blackbird and I have pretty harmonious 7Harmonic charts in themselves, lots of trines and sextiles. My planets are pretty wide-spread, what caught my eye is an exact NN-Asc conjunction, which widely is opposed my Karma and my Moon-Neptune conjunction that maintains from the natal. Blackbird has a Venus-Mars-Saturn-Chiron and widely Neptune stellium that happens to oppose my NN-Asc conjunction and thus conjunct my Karma-Moon-Neptune (all but his Neptune, I think). I believe this to be the theme of our 7th Harmonic synastry. And I can see his stellium at play, too. I personally relate better to my 9th Harmonic than my 7th, but I think in BB's case it makes a lot of sense. His stellium is trine Jup and sextile Mercury, so naturally my NN-Asc and Karma-Moon-Neptune aspect those too. My Sun squares his Asc and trines his MC exact. My Sun also opposes his Moon. His Sun sextiles my Venus and trines my Mercury. It opposes my Juno. My MC conjuncts his NN and his MC opposes my Uranus (given the whole relocation thing, I am not surprised we have such MC/IC contacts). His Karma conjuncts my Pluto exact.

9th harmonic.

My most notable configuration is Moon-Neptune-Mars opposite NN-Pluto-Venus aaand Uranus. I have a similar thing in my duad chart and methinks explains a lot of my dramatic and extremist tendencies in the love department, though I was not born with them per se. Those planets square Blackbird's Moon. They also are on top of his Mercury-Pluto opp Juno-Valentine. His Sun (and Jup) conjuncts my IC and my Sun (and Asc) squares his MC/IC exact.

posted January 19, 2014 03:23 PM            

Your 9th harmonic chart is INTENSE

Venus, Pluto, NN, Uranus, Antivertex - how is that for an unaspected Venus, hu????

I am pretty sure this one HAS to be touched by a close soulmate of you. No way this can stay untouched!

And then there is BB`s Mercury-Pluto at the same place in 9th harmonic (yes I know it is a conjunction).

Mercury-Pluto might not sound as sexy or romantic, but Mercury rules his 5th and 8th house, so it IS more than just a little sexy, though maybe too intense even.

Your Pluto is of course conjunct his Mercury-Pluto.
Your Venus is quadranovile his Mercury-Pluto and your own Pluto.
Your Uranus is binovile his Mercury-Pluto
Your NN is trine his Mercury-Pluto

It is a very big harmonic triangle, even though it might not coincide with a midpoint picture.

posted January 19, 2014 03:26 PM            

BTW I think your Moon-Neptune connects with his Juno-Vertex, too.
Since this is a Grand trine, it means your Moon-Neptune is opposite his JUno/Vertex-mp, too.

Honestly I am simply checking for stelliums in the harmonic charts, then re-check the natal charts to see what exact aspects they are in natal, and compare them to the midpoint. And that is all, no magic trick.

But it helps locating the most interconnected triangles.

posted January 19, 2014 03:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Wow! Hera!

Your 9th harmonic chart is INTENSE

Venus, Pluto, NN, Uranus, Antivertex - how is that for an unaspected Venus, hu????

I am pretty sure this one HAS to be touched by a close soulmate of you. No way this can stay untouched!

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posted January 19, 2014 03:45 PM            

My present approach is locating patterns, and for this harmonics must not be mixed.

However, there is of course the method of treating harmonics as independent charts, then you consider the signs of course, too, and compare to the natal chart (like Vedic does, too).

I have read sometimes that the 9th harmonic chart should be sensitive to transits, and that would only work, if the sign placements had any kind of independent value.

posted January 19, 2014 04:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Hera:
I trust your insight, Ceri. It was just a detail that jumped at me. I don't know all that much about harmonics to say more. Thank you for your help!

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it is probably significant, yes.

It`s just I am on the hunt for seeing patterns at the moment.
And those that come up simply leave me dumbfounded.

But I have only just begun.

posted January 19, 2014 10:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I was thinking...

maybe it would be valuable and insightful to

1) trace complexes in the same harmonic, which would describe a natal resonance between two people.

(harmonic complexes need to have at least 3 planets at different points at the zodiac, belonging to the same aspect series - those can be seen as conjunctions in the respective harmonic chart, but you have to exclude the Radix-conjunctions from the counting).

2) Trace isolated aspects (a 2 planet conjunction in the harmonic) and see if the partner`s planets occupy the "fulfillment-point" to make a harmonic triangle, or opposing that point

(in these cases there will be midpoint configurations as well).

Actually I start thinking that for interpreting midpoint configurations you HAVE to also take into consideration, which harmonic is creating the midpoint picture

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Ah.. the composite comes into play again.

My natal Saturn (exact conjunct composite Chiron) is the midpoint of both our Chiron.

His natal Vertex (exact conjunct composite Jupiter) is the midpoint of both our Jupiter.

The new thing I found: ok so these are 7th harmonic resonances! (had no idea.. 2 of our strongest natal/composite comparisons).

I guess these ^^ kind of configurations are one the strongest that can occur between harmonic charts? I mean: those that result in a natal planet conj. a composite planet.
It requires 2 of the same planets/points then (in the triple harmonic conjunction). The other condition: another planet/point must be the midpoint between this pair of the same planets.

posted January 19, 2014 10:46 PM            

quote:

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My natal Saturn (exact conjunct composite Chiron) is the midpoint of both our Chiron.

His natal Vertex (exact conjunct composite Jupiter) is the midpoint of both our Jupiter.

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When it comes to the above planets/points we may not exclude these;

- composite Chiron to-the-minute opposite the composite Vertex.

- My Saturn and both our vertex in a tight 3rd harmonic triangle (my saturn conj. composite anti-vertex)

posted January 19, 2014 11:15 PM            

If I'm not mistaken then all those t-sqaures, squares, conjunctions and oppositions would be my "hot spots", and if someone else's planets hit them, they'll trigger my 7th H energies yes?

Or am I missing something?

posted January 20, 2014 08:42 AM            

Though I was really just checking synastry for now. Of course in the case of resonating natal harmonic triangle they will necessarily come up in composite as well.

This is probably not true for triangles, which are not a DW.

However with my Solar FIre program I can also look at the harmonic composites (of course you can identify the aspects in a normal composite as well, the harmonic composites are just so nice for lazy people like me, to see it on one glance. lol).

Well, in the odd numbered harmonics of composites the opposition needs to be checked, too, (because it is a midpoints chart).

It was quite easy then to see the 5th harmonic triangles in the composite with Mr Sag.

1) Venus-Jupiter-Saturn

Jupiter quintile Saturn
Venus biquintile Jupiter and Saturn

mp:
Venus= Jupiter/Saturn with an orb of only 14 minutes of arc

Venus is on 16.01 Capricorn, and as it is the retrograde is hittin it quite a lot, the last enus-return will take place on 12th february.

Also Venus is closely opposite my natal 8th house Saturn on 16.58 Cancer.

2) Sun-Pluto-Juno - (DESC)
The DESC is a little out of orb for Juno

Sun quintile Pluto: 0.47
Sun biquintile Juno: 1.51
Sun biquintile DESC: 0.47
Pluto biquintile Juno: 1°04
Pluto quintile DESC: 1°35
Juno quintile DESC: 2°39

midpoints:

Juno= Sun/Pluto 1°28
Pluto= Sun/DESC 1°11
DESC = Pluto/Juno 2°07
Sun = Juno/DESC 0°33

Juno on 22.18 is opposite his natal 8th house Uranus on 23.24 SCorpio

DESC is on 1.39 Leo, right now his progressed Sun is on 1.41 Aquarius
My natal 8th house Priapus is on 0.08 Leo
composite DESC falls into his 5th house.

Sun is on 26.26 Sagittarius
conjunct my 1st house Sun on 25.56 Sag and my Mercury on 25.02 Sag
conjunct his 9th house Sun on 26.47 Sag, his 10th house Moon on 28.39 Sag, his MC on 28.32 Sag

3) Moon-Mercury-Uranus

Moon quintile Uranus 1°29
Moon decile Mercury 0°20
Mercury decile Uranus 1°11

(deciles appear as oppositions in the 5th harmonic chart, and since with midpoints we always also consider the opposition, the octave of the harmonics should be considered).

midpoints

Mercury = Moon/Uranus 0°25

Mercury is on 17.13 Sagittarius conj. Sappho on 17.48 Sagittarius

and conjunct his 9th house Neptune on 20.27 Sag widely

4) NN - True Lilith - Mars

Mars biquintile True Lilith 0.42
Mars conjunct NN 2.21
NN biquintile True Lilith 1.39

Of course this one does not result in a midpoint picture as Mars is conjunct NN instead of making a 5th harmonic aspect to it

Mars on 23.08 Libra and NN on 20.46 Libra
conjunct his 7th house pluto on 21.23 Libra

SN conjunct my 4th house Chiron on 20.02 Aries

True Lilith on 28.25 Taurus

are currently visited by Juno and Moon

pr comp Moon 26.31 Taurus
pr comp Juno 27.02 Taurus

"ok so these are 7th harmonic resonances! "
Do you find they vibrate with the 7th harmonic?

"It requires 2 of the same planets/points then (in the triple harmonic conjunction). The other condition: another planet/point must be the midpoint between this pair of the same planets."

posted January 20, 2014 08:43 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mir:
When it comes to the above planets/points we may not exclude these;

- composite Chiron to-the-minute opposite the composite Vertex.

- My Saturn and both our vertex in a tight 3rd harmonic triangle (my saturn conj. composite anti-vertex)

- Chiron/Jupiter BEAR HUG (dw 3rd harmonic)

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With the resonance to the 3rd harmonic, do you feel there is a harmonious flow?

posted January 20, 2014 12:59 PM            

quote:

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"It requires 2 of the same planets/points then (in the triple harmonic conjunction). The other condition: another planet/point must be the midpoint between this pair of the same planets."

I am not sure I follow. lol
Can you give an example?

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Ok.. here the thoughts as a result of mental drudgery since I don't have that great solar fire program lol..

So I looked at our natal 7th harmonics and I noticed this;

- his Jupiter/Vertex conjunction conjunct my Jupiter

- my Saturn/Chiron conjunction conjunct his Chiron.

And suddenly I thought.. hey WOW these two ^^ are "coincidentally" the ones that come up in the Composite as My natal Saturn conjunct the composite Chiron and his natal Vertex conjunct Composite Jupiter.
(it's ofcourse just the logical result).

And then I thought; so that has to be ALWAYS the case (coming up in the composite like that) IF there's such a harmonic interaction between 2 charts;
1) 2 of the same planets are part of the triple harmonic synastry conjunction.
2) the 3rd planet (in that triple synastry harmonic conj.) HAS to be the midpoint between this pair of the same planets (in normal synastry ofcourse).

And so If that's the case then there will Always appear a natal planet conjunct a composite planet.

I was also thinking in terms of strong-stronger-strongest (order of importance) .. and then I came to the conclusion that harmonic midpoint triangles between charts that result in a natal planet conjunct a composite planet carry the most weight.

(also in mind Cochranes order-of-importance list from that "resonances in natal, synastry & composite" thread).

__

posted January 20, 2014 06:24 PM            

Individual charts
in both charts the sun and moon are 154 degrees apart.

Synastry
His sun sextile her sun
His sun biseptile her moon
His moon biseptile her sun
His moon biseptile her moon
His moon parallel her moon

(all biseptiles less than 2 deg)

Composite
Sun opposite moon exact (also parallel)

posted January 21, 2014 12:30 AM            

I also checked personal name asteroids.
Here is 9th harmonic to 9th harmonic
In my 9th
My name and his name are conjunct.
In his 9th, my name is conjunct his moon/Jupiter conjunction. (9th aspect, he doesn't have it in natal)
From his chart my name his moon/Jupiter is conjunct my IC
Listing only conjunctions
Me to him. ((9th to 9th) tropical
IC to my name, moon, Jupiter
Karma to NN
Venus to MC
nN / sun to amor
Neptune to Eros, Neptune Pluto
Mars to asc