posted February 09, 2014 07:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

I was never in Egypt, but have been fascinated since being a young child. Well, maybe my aunt was even more fascinated, and she WAS in Egypt.

It was also then, that this sensation in the pit of my stomach started, that would usually be like a dull background noise, except for some peak moments where it became this almost piercing pulling pain, like a hole or void open up inside my core, and at the same time pulling me somewhere.

I described it in a story I once wrote (it became quite painful to write, for it seemed to hit very close to home, and I was the last to realize that! lol)

That pulling sensation actually became unbearably strong just a few weeks prior me seeing Mr Sag for the first time and it resulted in this deeply felt outburst of mine: "I want to go home."

Home - in this soul-fulfilling sense - that was theatre, musical-theatre, and though I had forced myself staying away from it for so long, at that point I couldnīt do anything but "going home".

After that open air, this painful ache subsided, not like a dull pain in the background I even and specially could feel when being around friends and family and people I truely loved and cared for, but it was really gone.

HOwever the pulling sensation - now for that, it has become very strong lately, it intensifies.

Actually it was responsible for the two times I approached mr Sag and talked to him, there was just no other way, that is what you do if someone pulls your strings, I suppose.

Anyway that feeling,t hat ache of longing, yearning, missing someone, it started early, and I remember I had a book about history, and I stumbled across the biography and picture of Echnaton, and I sat there, and the tears started streaming down my cheek, and I was MISSING HIM so much. Words can never describe how much.

I was missing a pharao of how many thousand years ago? LOL

But that was it. That feeling of ache just became so strong and so unexpected of course.

However, I clearly remember that moment.

BTW Echnaton also hears to the name of Akhenaten and amenhotep.

I also remember in 2000 I was in a museum in Berlin, and I have no recollection about what hapened when I entered the Egyptian section. I remember that I went in there, and I remember that I stepped out there, and there was a mentioning of Tutanchamun on my way out there, but during my walk through the section. I cant remember anything, but when I came out it felt so surreal, I did not even initially know what all these noises were about. For a splitsecond I had forgot in which century I was living and what cars and planes were!
I also had the feeling as if I had been crying, I felt so emotionally raw coming out of that section. It was odd.

I do remember everything else,t he Greek section, I remember that I had a very strong past life recall about the temple of Marduk and the Ishtar-gate, but at least I was conscious about it. lol

As for the egyptian section it felt like for a moment I got "lost in time".

---

posted February 09, 2014 11:11 PM            

I'm back. As to what happened earlier today, all I can say is that - it happens. Rarely, but it does.

As far as I can tell, it's a mode I have. I find myself in it after reaching a sort of peak level of frustration. Something I'm trying to find, or seek, or do, or communicate. If something isn't being done, or properly received - what have you - I find myself compelled to share information of which I myself may be unsure, or is completely new.

I have a confidence and assurance in that mode which, to me, feels terribly imperious. I'm no longer uncertain of anything. So much is suddenly open to me. Whatever is not being delivered is immediately top priority, and today, it was a culmination of certain things said here in the thread.

I'm honestly going to have to go back over everything. I'm aware of what I'm doing - but it doesn't register at the time. Does that make sense? I have to process it later. At the time, I simply write, or speak, or otherwise convey what must be conveyed - what feels overwhelmingly urgent.

To that end, I'm often overwhelmed. If I've been otherwise stressed or not taking the best care of myself, it can throw me off. Way off. Headaches, nausea, dizziness ... it's almost like I'm running a fever. And I don't feel -grounded- like I usually do. And I can be exhausted for hours after.

Heh. I'm barely making sense. But I appreciate your listening.

I'm going to need to go back over everything. I vaguely recall launching into something that had been percolating for the past couple of weeks. I'd been debating on what to call it. The Guardians are a feature from Lachesis, and all of the stuff that came to me then. It was in such a white heat, I frankly don't know how much of it was me as I usually am, or me when I'm in that particular mode. I just had that certainty about everything. But it was fiction. Rather, it was then. All of it. It wouldn't be until later I'd be told it was more than that.

So I'm going back over all of it, including the charts posted.

I DO feel there's merit to the Guardian Soul theory. It does seem to be that strange missing link; were I to test the hypothesis with research, I'd easily find much that substantiates it, across many people. So, we'll have to say.

I don't typically adopt that kind of certainty because it's fingernails on a blackboard to a scientist. (I also don't have much respect for science in that particular headspace, I see. Heh.)

Anyhow. I'm replenishing now. My electrolytes are low. It's like I've been doing strenuous exercise, but I haven't. So I wanted to log on for a bit and touch base. I'll be back.

Oh, and anything I said in that hour or two really doesn't go against anything I've been otherwise pondering.

Like your being amazing, Ceri. You know that's true; and I think there's something to the Egyptian link. You go beyond a single time or era, but you're 'resonating' to that one now for a reason.

And I'd love to see your composite, tgem. I KNOW there's something to that. Something to the c-SUN-MOON conjunction. I wonder if degrees matter, too.

posted February 10, 2014 12:09 AM            

It sounds like you are very stressed and have a lot on your plate...
The last thing I'd want would be to further add to that with my bipolar-ness. (Lol just kidding, I'm not bipolar, but this thread really did push my buttons and made me act in unusual ways for some reason.)
Anyways, it really wasn't my intention to do that.

I hope you can take some time off to rest and care for yourself.
Its extremely important for your physical body and mind to get some down time and nourishment.

posted February 10, 2014 03:37 AM            

@ Ceridwen, that's some seriously intriguing stuff!. I've been following your story as well.

@ Indigo, I was hoping you would post more about these special soul mates. Thanks for sharing your theory about the guardian souls, very interesting. Hope you get the rest you need and feel better! (BTW, that last post you made was posted at 11:11 my time).

@ Lavender CSwan, I'm glad you decided to stay and share more with us

Edit: At some point, I'll make a thread in the PR section to post some charts (if I don't forget).

Edit Again: Just going to go ahead leave these here since they've already been spotted (lol).

posted February 10, 2014 04:18 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lavender CrystalSwan:

The fact that Siva-Parvati are part of it just makes it even more stronger, possibly even giving it a high chance of being a twinflame/soulmate composite!
Love it

---

posted February 10, 2014 05:37 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lavender CrystalSwan:
MorpHnStorM,

Wow I am AMAZED at your charts!!!
Especially by your Helio: That grand cross involving the Sun-Moon, Uranus, Parvati-Vesta, Siva-Chiron looks very intense!!
The fact that Siva-Parvati are part of it just makes it even more stronger, possibly even giving it a high chance of being a twinflame/soulmate composite!
Love it

---

Well this is good to know as I honestly didn't think there was much to our composite. I do still have a lot to learn, esp. when it comes to composites as I've not looked into them that much. Thanks for your comments!

posted February 10, 2014 01:21 PM            

"Thats very intriguing about the fixed star Vega, I never heard of it before."
I love it. Which is funny. My tropical SAturn opposes it, though my HOPI conjuncts it.

I love quite a lot fixed stars i think. lol

I once had an analysis done on Mr Law and me (because this irrational whatever this was, just drove me nuts. lol) and Darkstar astrology did a lot with the fixed stars and there was a mentioning of Vega, too.

"The blessing in this relationship is actually the sex. Lilith is fantastic when conjunct the
magical and charismatic Sapphire star Vega."

Forget about the sex (as I did), but what I remembered was that Vega was called magical and charismatic, and if you look at it at the sky, it IS so beautiful, sapphire, as they say.

http://www.fotothing.com/photos/85a/85ab3451b192d1be80d4a99354ab55ab.jpg

Can`t you just feel her alluring magic?
(yes, to me Vega feels like a very feminine star, do not ask me why. lol)

Another one, I love. This time the pleiades

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1209/m45_gendler_2400.jpg

Then there is of course Orion, which I feel a very specific resonance with, for in the months surrounding my birthday it is rising just above my house, so whenever I leave the house at morning, it feels like Orion is looking down on me. And this has been so since I was a child, it kind of calmed me to see it there, to know it is still there.
Almost like I was being looked after by it. Isn`t that weird?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Orion_tjt.jpg

With BEtelgeuse

http://www.janis.or.jp/users/kitahara/sww/betel-z.jpg

Rigel
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qve2Ds-cMvk/TUC1TvUEIwI/AAAAAA AAQIc/JuU9IrduywY/s1600/orion_constellation-detailed_photo.jpg

Rigel in my chart is on 16.29 Gemini
my KARMA is on 16.01 Gemini

And Sirius of course
http://www.galacticimages.com/catalog/images/Sirius1.jpg

Orion and Sirius being a special case, as the Egyptians apparently built their pyramids in relation to those two constelations/ fixed stars and associated Sirius with Isis, Orion with Osiris.

Wpell, actually Orion is a constellation, and the pyramid (King`s chamber) pointed at Al Nitak the brightest star in the belt.

Al Nitak is at 24.20 Gemini, conjunct my helio earth/moon-complex (1°29) and maybe even more importantly opposes my helio NOfretete on 24.55 Sagittarius

(for me the resonance was strongest with the belt, despite my Karma actually being on Rigel)

Sorry I am getting carried away here. lol

"Also, the Helio Pluto–Alma conjunction falls on the Tropical Composite IC as well and conjuncts my n. NN, if that means anything."
It means a lot I think!
Imagine the composite IC as a gate, through which the intense soul-energy of PLuto-Alma can flow into your daily life, and as it is connected to your NN, this IS purpose or destiny of this connection for you. Probably you need to bring it "down on earth". The helio may show what "is" in a spiritual or even astronomical context, but we have to filter it through the earth-bound perspective to make it manifest. It seems like it is your job do do so.

posted February 10, 2014 02:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by summerlite:
Ceridwen, you are amazing. Orion's belt is cjt my moon. I always stare at Orion's belt in the nightsky cos that's the only constellation I can recognise. I can't believe it.

---

it`s hard to not not notice it. Esp. the belt, the straight line of the stars, the regular distance. As I said I was totally captivated from early childhood on. I even dreamed of having been on one of these stars. LOL

Not to mention all these times, I dreamed of "people" coming from there to either give me some assignment or well, a lot of these dreams was about remembering/ not remembering. lol

I donīt like these dreams though, they feel "crazy".

posted February 10, 2014 02:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
it`s hard to not not notice it. Esp. the belt, the straight line of the stars, the regular distance. As I said I was totally captivated from early childhood on. I even dreamed of having been on one of these stars. LOL

Not to mention all these times, I dreamed of "people" coming from there to either give me some assignment or well, a lot of these dreams was about remembering/ not remembering. lol

I donīt like these dreams though, they feel "crazy".

But then it`s probably just symbolizing my fascination with the stars.

---

I know the feeling, Ceri. I'm relaunching LACHESIS in its original form this week, though. Bringing on new writers I only met after it had closed. The story is yet unfolding.

VEGA doesn't do anything in my chart, but I can definitely feel its incredible power and marvel at its beauty. Wow.

I think VEGA's all over this one duo I know, though. Let me check. But their composite's all CAP.

...

Oh. DUH.

Fixed stars! It's there! THAT's the point!

Okay. Those of you with tightly concentrated composites, check what stars are being hit dead on, and what's hitting them. If my theory is correct, it'll be a lot.

posted February 10, 2014 02:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:

Fixed stars! It's there! THAT's the point!

---

I think that is at least one of the MAJOR points. Giving a frame, a background, an anchoring.

There are other points to consider of course, but this gives it more "depth"? No, that is wrong word, "prominence"?
something like that.

posted February 10, 2014 02:47 PM            

Oh, and someone called me Indie. I love it. I'm very independent, so that fits well. I'll have to go back and see who.

Okay. Regarding your composite, I'm concerned by a couple of things. There's a weak link between the SUN and MOON; it's a loose quincunx. That's karmic.

As to a Grand Cross, I'll go back over it, but I'm not seeing it.

I AM seeing this gorgeous Grand Fire Trine, with 8H MOON-ATLANTIS and ISIS-NNODE involved. ISIS had been called 'the goddess of geographic undesirability' by Martha Lang-Wescott. She tends to fragment, or deal with fragmentation. OSIRIS is close, but not conjunct. I think the NNODE/ISIS being separated by the 5C is significant. I like NEP-SAT conjunct in early SCO, too. You'd just have to look at the synastry to see who's dissolving and who's building / solidifying. There can be great integration there.

13° CAN. Isn't that POLLUX? Or maybe CASTOR.

Either way, it's curious that you've got this power in a Fire GT (and KAALI-SPIRIT with the SNODE in AQU, fuelling it) but your focus is in CAN.

SUN-VESTA means something, too. I've seen it before.

But it's as if you're not tapping into that power; you're not integrating. You've got to handle Cancerian matters, which may detract from that Fire powerhouse.

This seems very karmic.

I'd have to say that the Guardian theory may apply easily here. It seems like you're very high level soulmates who are tied to Graduates, and thus, each other. I've seen that happen.

But who and what can be very important.

For example, say either of you are tied to a set of CAN or even CAP Twinflames. That Cancerian energy goes into bolstering and emphasising that purpose. CAP would be more of a balancing act, however.

Now, say one of you is linked to a LEO TF, the other, an AQU. YOUR focus would be to balance the Cancerian karma you're bringing in. That means you two take centre stage for awhile. The relationship becomes crucial. THEN you have this wealth of Fire to contribute.

Make sense?

I've seen, across the board, with 'Guardian' connexions, strong ties to a set of Twinflames, by near exact aspects being made by stellia. Sometimes even separate parts of it, if it's a long one.

posted February 10, 2014 02:51 PM            

Ooh. I think something just clicked for me.

What's your Draco doing?

posted February 10, 2014 03:09 PM            

I do feel the Aries Point holds significance, as well as solstices and equinoxes. Curiously, Fate and I progressively met on the Summer Solstice, Spring Equinox, and, finally, after he confided the truth to me on the Wintre Solstice, we met when the SUN was in 12° CAP, and URA on the AP (0°).

posted February 10, 2014 03:11 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by summerlite:
how condensed is your heliocentric composite chart, ceridwen?

---

I must specify what I mean by "condensed".

Either a high concentration in the same sign, stellia.

But what I am even more fascinated with and wha i am also seeing quite a lot is closed circuits, harmonic patterns (aspectfigures).

I must add though that my excitement ceases significantly if the orbs of these patterns exceed 2°. For stellia bigger orbs migh be possible, rolling conjunctions, under the premise, that there is no empty space between two that is greater than 2-3°.

For conjunction and opposition I sometimes give a 3 degree orb, too, as they are not so much aspects but "statements" or "conditions", bringing two planets or objects into an unavoidable connection.

Think about it, for every other aspect there are several possibilities for conjunction and opposition there is only ONE aspect-partner.

Take 26 Sagittarius (my Sun) for example. There is only one position in the whole zodiac where conjunction or opposition is possible.

However, for a trine, sextile , quinkunx, square we have two positions that could fulfl it, hence it is not as rare.

The conjunction is more a place of merging, union than anything else. And the opposition is like shooting an arrow at the other side, like pointing to this one and only position in the zodiac.

However, as intense conjunction and oposition might be (and really in a composite oppositions are not that different from conjunctions, as it is a midpoint chart), I believe they need other aspects, preferably in a closed pattern to get all that energy flowing, and maybe to keep it from imploding or exploding uncontrolled, but actually make something with it.

As for the orbs, Yes, I am strict, but we are talking about soulmates and twinsouls here, extraordinary connections have extraordinary synastry and composite.

Having said that, we DO have a very interesting pattern in helio composite, containing the Ceres-Persephone-Pluto-symbolism. As far as I can see it it is not on any important fixed stars though.

[/URL]

I left any other asteroids out for now though as I just wanted to show the Star of David, between

Venus: 13 Aquarius
Ceres: 12 Aries
Jupiter: 11 Gemini
Persephone: 11 Leo
Pluto: 13 Libra
Neptune: 14 Sagittarius

BTW I ONLY consider the Neptpune as part of this (despite the 3 degree orb to Jupiter and Persephone) because Venus and Pluto are forming an orb-bridge here. They are definitely in aspect to Neptune (1 degree) but also to Jupiter and Persephone (2 degrees)

posted February 10, 2014 03:28 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:

I had the sense - very plainly - that certain things must be in place before the SUN crosses the AP this year. I've no idea why. I felt that especially strongly regarding the two of you.

---

I agree about the solstices and equinoxes. Though Mr Sag and me are born to the winter solstice anyway. Or close to it.

Last year when I saw him in "Aida" it was the 24th march, so shortly after the beginning of the new cycle and of course it was one of those days that fit into our 3-6-9 sequence again. lol Actually even down to the whole date.

I definitely felt something significant about him before, but at that date something happened, something shifted. Maybe the Egyptian theme that hit just too close to home. I donīt know. I was having a very strong realization before, on 1st december 2012 (another 3-9 day. lol), but that was more like, well, just a realization, insight, whatever.

24th march something shifted, it felt like something had been set in motion, though I still have no clue what.

But with that same sense of sudden urgency, it was that I felt I had to talk to him on that day last november (23rd, but actually it was exactly midnight curiously, or even 5 after midnight, or it became midnight during the short talk, and so it was the 24th - AGAIN. lol).

I just felt that if I didnīt talk to him that night, no matter how shallow and insignificant, well I donīt know what if not. I did not really have a choice in that matter. I HAD to talk to him. C ` est tout.

Change the pattern, break the weird ignorance-attention-mode, break the silence. Acknowledge, admit, surrender.

It was just a short talk as I said, just exchanging some words, not so important, but I was totally mesmerized at how soft his voice became speaking to me, how warm and kind his eyes were. It was unexpected. He can be so loud and brash and bold and overwhelming actually. Show-man.
But everytime he talks to me (not that often I admit - my fault), I almost feel like he is afraid of scaring me away, because there is is this quite uncharacteristic gentleness and I donīt know. I am probably imagining things, but at least the vibration was very positive. So maybe, just maybe I will be able to act a little more normal around him, and Not go into Neptune-avoidance-evasiveness-mode again.

But yes, it HAD to happen that night, something had to happen, as small it would be.

I actually realized only much later that shortly before that we had an ecclipse on 12 Scorpio, and our chartruler Uranus is 12 Scorpio!

And I know saw that in the helio composite we have a precise conjunction of Valentine and Angel on 13 Scorpio. And another one of Lust and Uranus on 10 SCorpio. lol
But we are not talking about THAT right now.

lol

I also later realized that on that very day our composite had its Venus-Return.

Comnposite Venus: 16.01 Capricorn
conjunct Vega by 1°03

composite Prosperina is on the same degree as Vega and squaring Pluto (so yes the theme resonates through everything, actually his Proserpina trines my Pluto by one degree, my Proserpina sextiles his Pluto exact; his Pluto conjunct my DNA by one degree. My Proserpina conjunct his DNA exact - no avoiding this ! )

posted February 10, 2014 03:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lavender CrystalSwan:
Ceri,

You also mentioned something about a condensed chart.
I would like to hear your opinion on these Davisons too please, if you have the time. Would they be what you call condensed?

Tropical davison

Helio davison
(Kaali is on 28° Aquarius)

I notice with this one, Mars and Atlantis are joining Uranus and Neptune as well on Vega.

EDIT:
Wait I just realized that Mars would actually be on the fixed star Sheliak, not Vega.
Sheliak has to do with Mercurial artistic expression (vocalizing, creating art using hands-on work, esthetics) which definitely fits for both us.

---

It is somewhat condensed yes, though it frustrates me a little, too. Some urgency is missing. It probably will need a bit effort o get this going, but it`s there.
Like always the helio chart is so much clearer. lol

There is however a very intriguing pattern including Saturn, Parvati, Chiron/Isis, Jupiter and Earth.

A abalnce of feminine energies.

I also see an (almost) Grand Trine of Pluto, Spirit, Osiris. Pluto-Osiris is actually too wide on its own (3°38 for a trine is usually equivalent to "grasping for straws"). however in this case Spirit might bridge it.

apart form tht there is definitely a strong strong strong ATlantean theme here, with Atlantis, Uranus, Neptune being all grouped around Vega, esp. the Uranus-Atlantis-theme is prevalent.

However it might be difficult to find an outlet for that, as it is an isolated conjunction. it could happen though if it is channelled through your natals.

To be sure this is a twinsoul-Davison we would need to see tight aspects between twinsoul-pairings though - for now that is to me Isis/Osiris, Siva/Parvati, Eros/Psyche (maybe also Cupido or Amor in relation to Psyche).

I am not certain about Pluto/Prosperina-Persephone, I am quite certain that Juno(Jupiter and Zeus/Hera do NOT belong here, and neither does Adonis/Ishtar (though the latter is important in terms of a sacred marriage ritual, but the emphasis might be too much onto the sexual exchange).

Ariadne in relation to Dionysos/ BAcchus MIGHT belong to the twinsoul pairings, but I am not totally sure about that. They could also be more a mix of soulmate love and sexual attraction. Yes, they loved each other deeply, Dionysos even made her immortal. But unlike Isis-Osiris or Siva - Parvati they are NOT usually considered as the symbolization of the male divine and the female divine.

Personally I would probably rather check for Eva and Adams, and Soomana and Sootyo.
Adam and Eve are archetypical of course.

Soomana and Sootyo are Hopi for Stargirl and Starboy.

But those are just possibilities. Very certain I am about Isis-Osiris and Siva-Parvati and to a lesser degree Eros-Psyche.

posted February 10, 2014 04:24 PM              

I actually felt this affinity with Keanu Reeves' chart while browsing this forum and went to do a geocentric composite chart and got a star of david too (though not as perfect as yours). It was amusing. I think it symbolises doing stuff for humanity though I'm not entirely sure.

Great chart you have. I would have thought when you said condensed, it means the planets would be cluttered together. My helio composite chart filled up one third of the chart.

I've been looking at the sabian symbols too. I think those apply to the helio chart really well.

posted February 10, 2014 04:25 PM            

As to stellia, I can't help but state the obvious.

The SUN-MOON is wide; 4°. I count it because of degree. The c-SUN hitting my MOON dead-on, and the c-MOON nearly being into 0° SAG, sign of his SUN.

SUN-VENUS is 1°.

But MOON-VENUS is 5°. Blegh.

SUN-JUPITER is 2°;
MOON-JUPITER is then 7°. Ugly.

ASC-MOON is widest of all, at 8°.
ASC-SUN is 4°;
ASC-JUPITER, 2°.
ASC-VENUS, 5°.

Okay, on further examination, not as close as I'd thought. Still, rather concentrated when considering composites.

I think the presence of KARMA, DESTINN, and VALENTINE is more interesting, and, now, UNION, on my n-SUN/MOON, I see.

In a 360° rundown, it goes:

OSIRIS @ 10° 25 VIR
ISIS @ 11° 04 VIR

LUST @ 27° 47 LIB
PLUTO @ 27° 50 LIB
SATURN @ 28° LIB
ATLANTIS @ 29° LIB
UNION @ 7° SCO
KARMA @ 14° 41 SCO
DESTINN @ 15° 01 SCO
ASC @ 20° SCO
LILITH @ 21° SCO
JUPITER @ 22° SCO
SUN @ 24° SCO
VENUS @ 25° SCO
ERATO @ 26° 18 SCO
VALENTINE @ 28° 47 SCO
MOON @ 29° SCO
HIDALGO @ 29° SCO
MERCURY @ 0° SAG
URANUS @ 4° SAG
NEPTUNE @ 25° SAG
EROS @ 26° SAG

Notable:

CHIRON @ 25° TAU
SAPPHO @ 25° LEO

PSYCHE @ 23° ARI
AMOR @ 23° PIS

And, of course:

LACHESIS @ 15° TAU
VX @ 16° TAU

Both parallel DSC.

Interestingly, despite the looseness of the stellium, SUN, MOON, VENUS, MERCURY, URANUS, JUPITER, VALENTINE, are all parallel.

KARMA-DESTINN is parallel the ASC, too.

MARS seems to be the one left out. 13° CAP, not doing much. Trine LACHESIS-VX, sextile KARMA-DESTINN, and loosely trine ISIS-OSIRIS.

I'd honestly say all MARS is doing is participating in that Grand Earth Trine:

MARS ^ LACHESIS-VERTEX ^ ISIS-OSIRIS.

posted February 10, 2014 04:39 PM            

[/URL]

posted February 10, 2014 04:44 PM            

1st one:

Sun: 23.23 S
Mercury: 22.49 S
Venus: 22.28 S
(Moon 21.29 S)
Neptune: 22.37 S

2nd one: