|
Author
|
Topic: Junko Furuta
|
deepseablues
Knowflake Posts: 428
From: the ocean floor
Registered: Jan 2014
|
posted December 08, 2014 08:24 PM
  
Being a believer in both karma and reincarnation, I have struggled with the concept of we choose our own karma, including children going through trauma and abuse/deserving/choosing it, but for me it also helped me come to terms with some of my own life events, believing that I did choose/deserve things that happened in order to pay of karmic debt. HOWEVER despite this belief I have also struggled with another question that begs to be answered with this philosophy. IF one chooses to pay off karmic debt by going through traumatic events, abuse etc, WHERE does the karmic debt cycle ever end if in order to pay off debt by going through abuse, there has to be an abuser and so, how can the cycle ever end if the abuser racks up their own karmic debt, that will need to be payed off by being abused, creating another abuser that will have to create another abuser in order to pay off the karmic debt of being an abuser... it creates a never ending cycle and this is where I begin to become more disturbed by the theory, and why and HOW to break this seemingly endless chain that would appear to go on infinitely somewhat like "This is the song that never ends..." from Lamb Chops. I also had to learn to cut myself off a little bit empathetically because of reading murders and horror stories like these, that would make me feel ill to my stomach and hopeless and desolate for humanity and living on this earth and finishing this incarnation. I had to stop reading newspapers and listening to media in order to begin this process. At first I thought it was important to know what was going on in the world, but it can get to a point where one becomes trapped/depressed from these horrific stories. This murder story reminds me of a similar murder that happened on my island a few years ago, and reading of it in the newspaper at the time used to make me ill to my stomach and in tears. Her name was Kimberly Proctor and her murder was gruesome, the articles on the internet do not reveal the same gruesome facts that were in the continuing newspaper articles, the link provided below details some of the gruesome details but glosses over many, when they say her body was mutilated with a knife, they are glossing tremendously... she was alive during the mutilations, including they inserted the knife into her vagina until they reached internal organs, and if I remember the newspaper articles correctly mutilated her breasts as well, they researched female anatomy before the planned murder, they also had rape fantasies including necrophiliac rape fantasies and fantasies of beheading. The murder was so disturbing some of the cops on the case had to seek out psychological counseling to help them deal with case/details.
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/killers-had-sex-with-dead-teen-court-hears-1.624429 IP: Logged |
neptunicity
Knowflake Posts: 417
From:
Registered: Mar 2012
|
posted December 11, 2014 03:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
^^Believing things like that may comfort you but saying things like that can infuriate others who would see you as blaming the victim and supporting the attacker (when there is one), and may even result in violence against you (a woman at a PTSD support group I used to go to shared about putting a woman who said something similar to her in the hospital and then how jail was worth it and she still didn't regret it). Just keep it in mind, just because it helps you doesn't make it helpful for others.
I re-read my posts, and it didn't strike me at all as blaming the girl and supporting the attackers. Not one bit. I was blaming fate, destiny, reincarnation, the Lord's will, and things of that nature. It's odd that you would react that way when you know we live out what is in our chart and transits. I would understand if you don't believe in astrology, but since you do, you are aware that our destiny is already mapped out in our charts. Why would the other members bother to post her transits if they didn't think that the event was triggered by the transits? Oh well, different people have different opinions. IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Moderator Posts: 5708
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
|
posted December 11, 2014 04:54 AM
^^*Tone of voice is neutral, matter of fact:* One, I believe in astrology but not as you do. I don't see it as fate of a clockwork universe (and even if it were it wouldn't mean it was fair) but rather energy and potential that life and the environment effect (that is, just like genetics it doesn't work in a vacuum). And I also don't believe astrology comes from God/dess or anything like that, I believe it comes from our own collective psychic energy that attributes meaning to stars and planets (more details here).
x Two, I wasn't "reacting" I was "warning." (And in a matter of fact way.) I sympathize with your wanting to believe in a fair universe (though I'd rather have the truth, both for astrological reasons and also because I've been places where what you believe can't survive--I met more than one runaway who came to hate their religion, including new age Wicca, because they saw the world worked very differently than they were taught, belief in a fair, just world is a luxury not everyone can afford) but what you don't realize is that other people interpret what you say differently because they have a different context and don't have the same automatic assumptions to go with your words that you do (just as I don't share your assumption that astrology is destiny, at least no more than genetics). And that different context also includes a background of self-blame and blame by others that tears them up inside and can destroy their entire lives and everything they believe in. And they can deal with the insinuations and outright accusations from others who want to believe it's a just world with God/dess in control. In addition, they're also angry at themselves for pretty much believing as you do once upon a time themselves (I was lucky to have never believed it so I suffered less alienating disillusionment). I know one who lost her friends when she needed them the most because they believed God didn't allow bad things to happen to good people (and there are new age versions of this belief as well) and since it happened to her they couldn't deal with it and thus shunned her and even her priest interrogated her on what she did wrong for God to allow it when she'd done everything she was taught to do by her church...on top of a rape that required multiple surgeries (while the serial rapist got off gaming the system, and the serial rapist becoming Junko Furuta in the next life is NOT comforting to them) she became filled with rage against the church and also any new age beliefs as you yourself shared. She couldn't go after the one responsible, there were too many conflicting emotions over those who shunned and blamed her, but you would've made a convenient target to her had she overheard you say something like that back then. I know you didn't mean harm (that doesn't mean you don't harm or that harm can't be done to you), and I know you weren't (exactly) blaming the victim or supporting the attacker (at least not intentionally so) and I've seen more than one person thoughtlessly say things like this to the wrong people because they forget how their words and views may come off to others or believe that because they mean no harm that therefore they do no harm and/or that harm can't be done to them. Your beliefs help you, but would infuriate them...not me, them. Though just for the record, just as I sympathize with your wanting to believe in a world controlled by benevolent forces that are fair and just because the horrors of the world is too much for you to endure (and you probably sympathize with those who suffer) I also sympathize with their anger (without believing that it's worth going to jail to hurt someone saying the things you do when they're actually angry at other people, themselves, and/or God/dess). I can see things from both points of view. And knowing how much rage and "blame the victim" that victims deal with (and Junko Furuta would've dealt with had she survived), as well as attitudes that praise God (or equivalent) while saying God allowed or even caused it (but still praise the monster--from their point of view, I was blessed to never believe in such a god or fate to begin with) the rage can be INTENSE and you don't want to have it directed at you when you're in reach, especially not if they have PTSD (which agitates the adrenal glands and can even create a simmering low grade terror & anger that can flare up unexpectedly into hot, adrenalin-soaked rage when triggered). IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Moderator Posts: 5708
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
|
posted December 11, 2014 05:15 AM
I once knew a 14-year-old girl on the streets who was sometimes like a vicious dog and I don't even dare share everything I've seen her do and take part in, and she had once been religious who lost her faith after the police sent her loving adult family to prison (for drugs) and separated the kids to put them through foster care...with her eventually put into an incredibly abusive Catholic orphanage. She'd eventually wind up on the streets with other kids burned by the system and with an intense hatred for all religion (including Wicca and the like). She'd have loved this scene...make it so she was Hispanic rather than Chinese along with a few other details (though she did know police brutality as a runaway, too) it could've fit her, at least as an adult (assuming she survived that long). She didn't use guns when I knew her (she did use knives, and I do mean in crime and assault) though unless she transformed then she probably carries guns today (if still alive). When I saw this (language warning) I instantly thought of her:
http://youtu.be/gey4MNgteK4?t=1m8s As I say, only a few details would need to be changed to fit her attitude well. Granted, most people who visit LL won't mix with people like that but they could overhear you at say a public restaurant or by the library or some such and I could see ending in more senseless violence for the news. In the case of the member of my PTSD support group who caused bodily harm on another, that was from the first day of another support group and I'm sure the one who needed an ambulance after thought she was helping because her beliefs helped herself but didn't realize they wouldn't help others who would have a very different context to understand such words...and I could see some at LL going to a support group with people like that whom are angered rather than comforted by such beliefs. IP: Logged |
neptunicity
Knowflake Posts: 417
From:
Registered: Mar 2012
|
posted December 18, 2014 12:32 AM
I see. It took me quite a while to process what you're saying. Anyway, no wonder you said that, because we don't share the same beliefs. And you don't believe in God, so I assume you're an atheist? While I do believe in God, angels, spirit guides, etc. but I won't turn the topic into a debate, lol. At least it's clear now why you said that.IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Moderator Posts: 5708
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
|
posted December 18, 2014 03:54 AM
I am Ignostic. More here:
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000667.html I am far more skeptical of human religion than the spirit world (though religion can both help and harm, including both at the same time, and may or may not be spiritual as opposed to dogmatic) and of the spirit world I don't believe in a personal all encompassing God/dess (though some levels of reality may come off to us that way) and don't believe what we call "good" is stronger than "evil" or that spirits are purely one or the other as many others believe. My view of spirits--though I'm not certain what exactly they are, and that's also true of the human soul--is similar to the old pagans and also Shintoists...calling them things like "demons and angels" is more of a mood a spirit is in or what side is seen at that moment, though I have much more complex musings on the matter as well as on other metaphysical concepts. Oh, and I consider karma to be completely blind, and an innocent person can suffer the karma of someone who acts in intentionally harmful ways...in fact, in some ways the innocent may be much more likely to suffer as they're usually not watching their back like the guilty. If this seems a strange concept to you then this explains how karma is blind and how the innocent can suffer for the sins of the guilty (not that I wholly embrace the idea here, though I do think it's a good point to keep in mind):
http://www.deepleafproductions.com/wilsonlibrary/texts/raw-karma.html IP: Logged |
Aries23Degrees
Knowflake Posts: 1466
From: South Africa
Registered: Dec 2012
|
posted December 18, 2014 04:11 AM
And those boys are now part of society?  That is incredible!!!!!  IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
