posted April 11, 2015 12:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
12th house placements dramatically change a person's personality. You can take someone with a chart full of fire and air placements and put a major placement or two in the 12th house and they go from being a loudmouth that won't shut up to a quiet person that wants to be alone most of the time... I just did a co-workers chart the other day and he is a Leo sun, Leo ascendant, and sag moon. But guess what? This guy is quiet and laidback. And wouldn't you know he is a 12th house sun like me. I called it before I even did his chart and I was right. People with their big 3 all in fire signs are not usually introverted and/or quiet. I have seen the pattern time and time again where people have tons of social placements and they have a planet or two (mainly sun or moon) in the 12th and they are introverts. I am highly skeptical when someone claims they have 12th house placements and are extroverted. Those people have the wrong birth time in my opinion.

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I wouldn't be so presumptuous. You've got to make the chart conform to the person, not make the person conform to the chart. If not, people stop bein complex people with free will and just turn into walking profiles. Just because someone with a certain influence doesn't fit your idea of what they should be like because of that influence doesn't mean their birth time is wrong.

12th House people are highly complex. Just because we have an extrovert side doesn't mean we don't have many introvert traits. I've always been a fair balance of both, leaning more toward extroversion. But, look at Jennifer Lawrence. She definitely comes off as very extrovert and she has Saturn and North Node in the 12th. Madonna has a really packed 12th House, including her Sun. Enough said.

Being that 12th House people are total chameleons, it makes sense that we'd develop extrovert traits in order to adapt to the world, which is predominantly extrovert. We can really be whoever we decide to be. If that's an outgoing person, we can shift into being outgoing. Besides, this is not a what-you-see-is-what-you-get house. Since people kind of "shelter" their 12th House placements, it makes sense that, for many people, that very quiet, introspective, deep nature of these planets is saved for when we're alone or being reflective/creative. Otherwise, we can do things to veil them or distract people from them and it makes sense that one of these things would be to not be reflective or quiet.

By the way, is it just me or are people really fascinated with the 12th House lately?

posted April 11, 2015 06:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by the89freespirit:
You've got to make the chart conform to the person, not make the person conform to the chart.

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posted April 11, 2015 09:28 AM            

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posted April 11, 2015 09:36 AM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Putin has a 12th House Sun? Is it well within the 12th House, not within 10 degrees of the ASC?

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posted April 11, 2015 09:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Again,
You do not have to be extroverted to be outgoing, popular, or a public figure. The only thing that seperates introverts from extroverts is their need to re-charge and be alone. I already mentioned George W Bush and Putin.. Both were/are very much public figures and both are introverts once you peel back the public persona.

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I understand that difference. I know extroversion does not automatically equal outgoing and introversion does not automatically equal shy. But, there is a shade of gray. You're strictly dividing people into "introvert" and "extrovert" categories when it's not always that simple.

Like I said, on my Myers Briggs test, I've always been about 51 percent extrovert and 49 percent introvert. So, they're neck and neck, basically. Therefore, someone can have a need to re-charge and be alone and all of that while also enjoying or being skilled at being sociable. I think I'm good at both sides. We've divided the world up too long into introverts and extroverts because it makes us feel safe to be to label people like that.

If a 12th House person says they're extrovert, why can't they be? Because it's against the astrological rules for them to be extroverted? If you go by Myers-Briggs, I'm ENFJ. Yet, I have a 12th House stellium and yes, my birth time is correct. I own my birth certificate.

My only problem is you believing that someone has "got themselves wrong" or something by saying that about themselves. It's quite condescending. We don't get to decide people's personalities for them, no matter what their charts are.

posted April 11, 2015 09:40 AM            

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posted April 11, 2015 09:41 AM            

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
This should be the mantra of every person practicing astrology!

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posted April 11, 2015 09:42 AM            

If *I* go to a therapist and TELL them what is wrong with me and FIGHT with them when they tell me something they see that I don't, why go?

If a person knows his own chart that well, why pay for a chart?

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posted April 11, 2015 09:49 AM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
This is how I feel. If *I* go to a therapist and TELL them what is wrong with me and fight with them when they tell me something they see that I don't, why go?

If a person knows his own chart that well, why pay for a chart

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Using that analogy, not all things will reveal themselves in front of the therapist. It's up to the patient to inform them of ALL symptoms (or just tell the whole story of whatever reason that they are there) and if the therapist doesn't ask and/or the patient isn't aware of what are considered symptoms then you have a possible wrong diagnosis and/or get the wrong kind of help.
Happens all the time Ami.
They'd be the worst therapist ever to just tell the patient that they are this way or that, to label them with things that the patient clearly denies. Unless they suspect immediate danger to self or others.
Bipolar type two for example is VERY often misdiagnosed because it's usually only the low, depressed symptoms that
People notice or seek help for.

posted April 11, 2015 09:52 AM            

They can say: "Then you are absolutely a dependent, needy individual, with commitment issues and always looking for parent figures in your relationship".

Or they can say: "Tell me more about your experience growing up, your most important relationships and friendships, how you got along with your adoptive parents".

posted April 11, 2015 09:59 AM            

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
According to astrotheme, about 20 degrees away.

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posted April 11, 2015 10:00 AM            

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
You can go to a therapist and tell them "I'm an orphan and was adopted at age 4".

They can say: "Then you are absolutely a dependent, needy individual, with commitment issues and always looking for parent figures in your relationship".

Or they can say: "Tell me more about your experience growing up, your most important relationships and friendships, how you got along with your adoptive parents".

I'd personally pay the 2nd one. Only the 2nd one could form an informed opinion, unique to the particular patient.

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posted April 11, 2015 10:01 AM            

I don't want people to tell me things I want to hear or things to puff me up. True love is truth.

I have Jung conjunct the Sun. I give what I like to receive.

That is why I am not right for everyone. I turn away people every week.

I interview everyone who contacts me. If they are not on the same page, I tell them I am not the right astrologer for them.

I don't need money. I don't need ego but I will not be fake.

I will not say things for political correctness, as I see all the time.

That is my contribution to Astrology which is loved by 75% of people and disliked by 25%.

If I wanted to be loved by everyone, I would be a fake.

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posted April 11, 2015 10:03 AM            

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Originally posted by coteau:
astro.com doens't have a verifiable source for putins time of a birth, you can't trust astrotheme for that. And even on astrotheme his sun is in the 11th house.

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posted April 11, 2015 10:25 AM            

It is that people are BSing themselves and everyone else.

Truth will heal. It is the ONLY thing that heals.

People who have the bollas to tell the truth are very rare.

However, they are appreciated by many people who realize what it takes to go against sheeple

It takes a lot.

Judge Judy, Dr Phil etc are popular because they are REAL.

If you contact me in any way, you will get my honest opinion. If you don't like it or want it, don't contact me.

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posted April 11, 2015 10:26 AM            

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posted April 11, 2015 10:35 AM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
You know what is at the root of my common day problems such as alienation, depression etc?

It is that people are BSing themselves and everyone else.

Truth will heal. It is the ONLY thing that heals.

People who have the bollas to tell the truth are very rare.

However, they are appreciated by many people who realize what it takes to go against sheeple

It takes a lot.

Judge Judy, Dr Phil etc are popular because they are REAL.

If you contact me in any way, you will get my honest opinion. If you don't like it or want it, don't contact me.

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I've seen you in action here, and in private. You are the fakest person that I've known on LL!! LOL
What you say here, and then what you email all of your buddies are like night and day.

posted April 11, 2015 10:37 AM            

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posted April 11, 2015 10:37 AM            

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
Not sure where you pulled that math from, Ami, but after the hate speech I saw from you recently, I personally can't and will never be able to take anything you say about astrology and 'helping people' seriously. I'm not even sure while I'm in this dialogue to be honest, so let's leave it at that - there's no point in arguing, and this thread was derailed once already and barely made it back

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Ok, me too.

posted April 11, 2015 11:17 AM            

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Originally posted by BellaFenice:

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
If you find a Christian who is always trying to be perfect( and we all hate this type) she does not understand the NT times. I will explain. In New Testament times, a person who has accepted Jesus as personal savior and lord can do ANYTHING and not break the law. That person can kill, steal, do terrorism, hate, rape etc and still have God's grace. Your eyebrows raise. You want to throw tomatoes at me but let me explain. In the NT Dispensation, Jesus has borne all our sins. That means that anything I do is forgiven by God. I can kill a hundred people with a machine gun and still be forgiven. I can hate and act like Hitler and still be forgiven. In fact, God will never cast me out for my actions. Man will punish me. However, Jesus sacrifice made me clean, holy and pure in God's eyes.

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I did a little searching and found that the above was taken out

of context (as I suspected- hence the search).

The article goes on to say:

"Why should I act right, then?

You act right because you want to please God and honor Him.

You are so grateful to Him for His Love. You act right to give

homage to Him, not to get His grace. You got His grace when He

died."

True.

Also, you're no longer your own.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to

do of his good pleasure.

Phil. 2:13

The examples mentioned were for illustration purposes, I

imagine; to show that there is no sin that has not been

covered by that sacrifice.

A study of the scripture will show that those who were

arrested by God, for His purposes, had a tendency to stop

the persecution of others, for their own benefit- such was the

case with Saul/Paul.

It isn't about license to '... do as thou wilt' as some have

taken it (the excerpt) to mean.

It's about the fact that we're no longer condemned; that is,

the Curse has been broken.

It's all in there.

posted April 11, 2015 11:20 AM            

I know a 12th house leo sun/venus who is extroverted, but she also has mercury conjunct ascendant, she says she loves being social and that she needs it, she smiles and laughs loudly all the time, most definetly not shy, even though she has suffered depression and other terrible things.

im a 12th house aquarius sun/venus/moon myself, and i've been really shy in the past because my venus/mercury are conjunct saturn so I can't be impartial about wether im extroverted or not because of the 12th house. I don't enjoy being alone for too long, but i am not actively seeking social engagements.

Another close friend is also a 12th house aquarius sun/saturn/mars, scorpio moon, pisces rising, and she is loud, she is a primary school teacher, she has a million acquaintances who she has no problem chatting with on the street or saying what she thinks to whos listening. I don't know if she needs to "socialize", but she is the type of person that can't sit still and has a lot of energy. The only thing really 12th is that she lost her father while young.

I think 12th house suns can be extroverted, but not in the way that they want the limelight, they would only be in the limelight if they had no other choice.

Also madonna claims shes an aquarius ascendant, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHSdnS8JDT4
soo you can't say she's a 12th house sun either.

posted April 11, 2015 11:53 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by the89freespirit:
My only problem is you believing that someone has "got themselves wrong" or something by saying that about themselves. It's quite condescending. We don't get to decide people's personalities for them, no matter what their charts are.

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