posted November 13, 2015 02:17 PM            

I work with a black guy, native to Kenya. He's my friend.
If I cause a stir at work he'll often tell me, in a joking tone but with seriousness as well, "you're a white boy. You can get away with that. If I tried, they would have me in the office right away."
I don't say much because I don't want tension to arise and come between us. It doesn't make me feel offended or angry either. If anything it makes me feel, kind of sad I guess. He should feel comfortable speaking up so I do try to give him confidence to do so but without bringing race up directly. I just don't want a disagreement on viewpoint to turn to tension that separates us. We both want the same thing I think.
You see, I work with him every day. I sit in meetings with him. I talk to my other coworkers, who are all white with the exception of an Asian. None of them have ever mentioned it and I fail to see how he is looked at any differently by anyone. I genuinely don't see it and can't see it happening. Just this week he made a mistake that was fairly significant, as happens to us all from time to time. He never got any backlash. So the idea that he views his surroundings this way is sad, and confusing to me. I really don't get it.
I don't know if he really views it this way, or he hears from others what living in a white world means, or if he's suffered racism in the past. But as I see it, I don't see what he sees in the same environment that I'm in.

posted November 13, 2015 02:21 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Yes. If everyone could just take an honest, non judgmental look at the indignation they feel at having their race brought up, and consider what it feels like to be discriminated against on a daily basis because of the colour of their skin, you'd know how silly it sounds to be so very angry at somebody who's perceived a note of white-centrism and called our attention to it. It never happens and so it's uncomfortable, but it's a necessary discomfort to feel because addressing white privilege is the other side of the coin when it comes to addressing racism against people of colour.. Simply not discussing racism is not sensitivity, it's shame and censure.. We need to be able to discuss these matters openly and respectfully. Merely hearing the words 'white privilege' is understandably difficult for some but it's something to get used to. Nobody is trying to shame anybody else, just point out that an imbalance exists.

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Things are getting out of hand here. Yungang, there is no way to destroy racism by segregation.

I am answering this because I didn't feel indignation due to my skin color being mentioned. In fact, you don't make people feel guilty or proud for their skin color, no matter what it is. It's not a personal merit or curse, we did nothing for it. You blame individuals, communities, governments for their racist speech or policies, and you don't mix astrology in this. Astrology is rainbow color. In astrology, we have the only race there is, the human race. This is where the indignation comes from.

I am mostly Caucasian, of very mixed descent (including Mongoloid and Middle Eastern genes). I have known discrimination many times, gender, economical, country of origin, and I was recently called gipsy trash here. But personal experiences and wounds don't exclude the fact that there is no way to destroy racism by segregation.

When you invite me to celebrate someone's skin color, you invite me to a path of racism.

My indignation also comes from the fact that Jewish people have been called "non-white" and a race, as an excuse for scapegoating, theft and mass murder, while they're part of the white race. You don't call Jewish people non-white, you don't use the same weapons as fascists. You generally don't use the same weapons as racists. Also, including Spanish people in "non-white" and as not having benefited from the "white privilege' is ridiculous, considering they are white and also that Spain has been a huge empire, colonizing but also plundering and killing millions of indigenous people. As I said, it's about the privilege of having power at a certain point in time, it's not about race. Almost all ethnicities represented on that list have persecuted, discriminated and killed minorities, other ethnicities, indigenous people. Do you bring this historic and not so historic background on this astrological forum?

posted November 13, 2015 02:29 PM            

I wonder how many white people would readily trade place with black people of the same social class? Example, how many white middle class would trade place with a black middle class person?

posted November 13, 2015 02:35 PM            

To the topics of white privilege or not knowing what it's like to be discriminated against or being in the racial minority, I would consider such a discussion when I'm in a better frame and on a board not devoted exclusively to astrology. Perhaps H&H?

posted November 13, 2015 02:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Things are getting out of hand here. Yungang, there is no way to destroy racism by segregation.

I am answering this because I didn't feel indignation due to my skin color being mentioned. In fact, you don't make people feel guilty or proud for their skin color, no matter what it is. You blame individuals, communities, governments for their racist speech or policies, and you don't mix astrology in this. Astrology is rainbow color. In astrology, we have the only race there is, the human race. This is where the indignation comes from.

I am mostly Caucasian, of very mixed descent (including Mongoloid and Middle Eastern genes). I have known discrimination many times, gender, economical, country of origin, and I was recently called gipsy trash here. But personal experiences and wounds don't exclude the fact that there is no way to destroy racism by segregation.

When you invite me to celebrate someone's skin color, you invite me to a path of racism.

My indignation also comes from the fact that Jewish people have been called "non-white" and a race, as an excuse for scapegoating, theft and mass murder, while they're part of the white race. You don't call Jewish people non-white, you don't use the same weapons as fascists. You generally don't use the same weapons as racists. Also, including Spanish people in "non-white" and as not having benefited from the "white privilege' is ridiculous, considering they are white and also that Spain has been a huge empire, colonizing but also plundering and killing millions of indigenous people. As I said, it's about the privilege of having power at a certain point in time, it's not about race. Almost all ethnicities represented on that list have persecuted, discriminated and killed minorities, other ethnicities, indigenous people. Do you bring this historic and not so historic background on this astrological forum?

The main point is, this discussion does not belong in astrology.

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I think it's here and it's happening so it must have a place here... If you'll read my post carefully you'll see I'm merely counseling some understanding of the OP's viewpoint and position, and moderation in expressing such indignation at race even being mentioned given that it is impactful, as you describe. It does make a difference as to how we treat one another. I don't think my expressing my opinion is things getting out of hand.

i agree with you that astrology is rainbow coloured. It encompasses everything we do and everything we ate as humans that includes this topic.

It's my birthday today so I'm going outside and not participating anymore I hope you understand I'm not trying to upset anybody. I was counseling against indignation at the mere mention of white privilege. We need to be able to take these things into account if we are to work past/through them

posted November 13, 2015 02:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
Thank you! I'll add to my list when as soon as posiible, (I'm posting from my phone now)

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No problem at all! Here are some more.

Tia Norfleet
Taurus Sun

Bobby Norfleet
Cancer Sun

Ruben Carter
Taurus Sun

Dr. Joy DeGruy
Libra Sun(?)

Melissa Victoria Harris Perry
Libra Sun

posted November 13, 2015 02:53 PM              

Yes, indeed, this day is for something else, duh! Much love, fun and happiness to you!

posted November 13, 2015 03:07 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Things are getting out of hand here. Yungang, there is no way to destroy racism by segregation.

I am answering this because I didn't feel indignation due to my skin color being mentioned. In fact, you don't make people feel guilty or proud for their skin color, no matter what it is. It's not a personal merit or curse, we did nothing for it. You blame individuals, communities, governments for their racist speech or policies, and you don't mix astrology in this. Astrology is rainbow color. In astrology, we have the only race there is, the human race. This is where the indignation comes from.

I am mostly Caucasian, of very mixed descent (including Mongoloid and Middle Eastern genes). I have known discrimination many times, gender, economical, country of origin, and I was recently called gipsy trash here. But personal experiences and wounds don't exclude the fact that there is no way to destroy racism by segregation.

When you invite me to celebrate someone's skin color, you invite me to a path of racism.

My indignation also comes from the fact that Jewish people have been called "non-white" and a race, as an excuse for scapegoating, theft and mass murder, while they're part of the white race. You don't call Jewish people non-white, you don't use the same weapons as fascists. You generally don't use the same weapons as racists. Also, including Spanish people in "non-white" and as not having benefited from the "white privilege' is ridiculous, considering they are white and also that Spain has been a huge empire, colonizing but also plundering and killing millions of indigenous people. As I said, it's about the privilege of having power at a certain point in time, it's not about race. Almost all ethnicities represented on that list have persecuted, discriminated and killed minorities, other ethnicities, indigenous people. Do you bring this historic and not so historic background on this astrological forum?

The main point is, this discussion does not belong in astrology.

---

Okay LeeLoo2014, before you post again I really suggest you read through all of the posts made in this thread. I can see you are very passionate (I am the same way) but much of what you have been complaining about has already been addressed. Also, FOR THE LAST TIME, I do NOT want any more arguments. This is not the proper thread for that, if you want to argue about the topics on this thread post your own forum. From now on I want this to be a positive thread, as it was meant to be.

As a Jewish person myself I'm just going to let your comments slide because you clearly didn't read through the full posting or any responses. Also, I would also prefer if in responses people would quit using my people's suffering as a way to make a point. You don't have to "enlighten" me about my OWN people's history. In fact, as a child I remember seeing many people with the number tattoo on their arms when I went to synagog. If you have questions read the STARRED part of the 1st post. I also addressed why I included Pablo Picasso in a response. I don't want it to seem like I'm attacking you but I really think you posted with guns blazing before you knew all the facts of this post and that just rubbed be sideways.

posted November 13, 2015 03:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gemini Blues:
I wish to apologize for any anger my remarks may have caused. I am finding that I'm taking lots of things personally at the moment. Mars square Venus and the nodes? Saturn square Saturn and Uranus? Got them both at the moment. And with Saturn transiting my second house, I'm feeling anything but privileged. So with that in mind I'm willing to concede I'm taking offense when none was offered.

To the topics of white privilege or not knowing what it's like to be discriminated against or being in the racial minority, I would consider such a discussion when I'm in a better frame and on a board not devoted exclusively to astrology. Perhaps H&H?

Again, no offense meant.

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Don't worry about it! Like I said, I knew I was going to met with a lot of opposition when posting. I always welcome challenging ideas to my own, it's a way I can grow and help others as well. This post was never to be solely about White Privilege, but for the purpose of having diverse people sharing a sun sign.

posted November 13, 2015 03:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
The main point is, this discussion does not belong in astrology.

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posted November 13, 2015 03:17 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
Oh dear.

I wonder how many white people would readily trade place with black people of the same social class? Example, how many white middle class would trade place with a black middle class person?

And since this is an astrology board, I wonder what in someone's chart indicates empathy or lack of for other races's plights and the plight of minorities in general.

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It's a very delicate conversation, because people belonging to a minority or who have experienced racial discrimination would perceive any criticism on this thread as an attempt to shut their mouth, even if it's not the case, as an ancestral trigger, or as if someone is contesting they are and have been discriminated. While what I'm saying is that as an astrologer I don't care if you're black or white.

posted November 13, 2015 03:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
Oh dear.

I wonder how many white people would readily trade place with black people of the same social class? Example, how many white middle class would trade place with a black middle class person?

And since this is an astrology board, I wonder what in someone's chart indicates empathy or lack of for other races's plights and the plight of minorities in general.

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posted November 13, 2015 03:22 PM            

*reading thread with interest*

posted November 13, 2015 03:24 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
Don't worry about it! Like I said, I knew I was going to met with a lot of opposition when posting. I always welcome challenging ideas to my own, it's a way I can grow and help others as well. This post was never to be solely about White Privilege, but for the purpose of having diverse people sharing a sun sign.

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posted November 13, 2015 03:25 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
Okay LeeLoo2014, before you post again I really suggest you read through all of the posts made in this thread. I can see you are very passionate (I am the same way) but much of what you have been complaining about has already been addressed. Also, FOR THE LAST TIME, I do NOT want any more arguments. This is not the proper thread for that, if you want to argue about the topics on this thread post your own forum. From now on I want this to be a positive thread, as it was meant to be.

As a Jewish person myself I'm just going to let your comments slide because you clearly didn't read through the full posting or any responses. Also, I would also prefer if in responses people would quit using my people's suffering as a way to make a point. You don't have to "enlighten" me about my OWN people's history. In fact, as a child I remember seeing many people with the number tattoo on their arms when I went to synagog. If you have questions read the STARRED part of the 1st post. I also addressed why I included Pablo Picasso in a response. I don't want it to seem like I'm attacking you but I really think you posted with guns blazing before you knew all the facts of this post and that just rubbed be sideways.

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posted November 13, 2015 03:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:

And since this is an astrology board, I wonder what in someone's chart indicates empathy or lack of for other races's plights and the plight of minorities in general.

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posted November 13, 2015 03:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Sorry, this is a ridiculous, offensive and dictatorial post. Just because you don't agree with my views, it doesn't mean I didn't read the thread. Also, you can't keep telling us what to answer or not answer here.
If you knew your own people's history, you would never call them non-white or a race.
Half of your list is Spanish, not just Picasso.
And telling me to shut my mouth because I'm not Jewish is extremely offensive, also considering the actual message I sent about this matter.

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posted November 13, 2015 03:42 PM            

That non-white thing about Jews was SUPER ignorant but she said she was sorry and she changed her post.

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posted November 13, 2015 03:48 PM            

Accusations lead to defensiveness.

posted November 13, 2015 03:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
Once again I find myself gawking at how offended people get... I haven't read every single post but from what I did read it seems like some don't understand that a) white privilege is not personal, and b) the thread was about celebrities, and figures who weren't white. If others are so offended by the term "non-white" a reevaluation of priorities is needed. Sheesh.

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