|
Author
|
Topic: Natal vs. Progressed Chart
|
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27164
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
|
posted July 17, 2016 11:23 AM
  
quote:
Originally posted by soren:
your ascendent progression has nothing to do with the movement of the sun in a day
Well most astrologers seem to have come to an agreement that it does nevertheless. Though personally I find it rather inconsistent as well. IF using the secondary progression method, then why not do it for the ASC as well?
That is the reason Quotidian angles exist. Still the secondary progressed ASC, even if arrived at by theoretical inconsistency and adopting the solar motion, works as a superb timer of events. IP: Logged |
soren
Knowflake Posts: 906
From: right by vancouver, bc, canada
Registered: Sep 2012
|
posted July 17, 2016 11:24 AM
i thought it was pretty basic. 4 minutes of real time = 1 year of life. Edit: but it could be 6 minutes to equate 1.5
for example if we know the asc moves 1.5 degrees then 6 real time minutes would be the average since it takes 4 minutes for the ascendent to move 1 degreeIP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27164
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
|
posted July 17, 2016 11:26 AM
for those interested on the differences, David Cochrane has a few videos on that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RMcqpvPcFQ IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27164
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
|
posted July 17, 2016 11:27 AM
quote:
Originally posted by soren:
i thought it was pretty basic. 4 minutes of real time = 1 year of life. Edit: but it could be 6 minutes to equate 1.5
well 4 or 6 minutes can result in quite a difference with fast rising signs. IP: Logged |
soren
Knowflake Posts: 906
From: right by vancouver, bc, canada
Registered: Sep 2012
|
posted July 17, 2016 11:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
well 4 or 6 minutes can result in quite a difference with fast rising signs.
yes if you look again i corrected myself
even though i corrected myself and its likely 6 minutes i believe, 4 to 6 minutes will be the difference between 20 degrees and 30 degrees. If primary directions are correct, it still paints a more accurate picture of your progressed chart than secondary. 66% of your planets house placements would still be correct (the difference between if 4 minutes was correct but we used 6 minutes instead, 66% )
Which is why the 1.5 degrees per year should be used as an estimate, and further investigation by the indiviual person to line up their life situations with those of their primary progressed chart to find the correct progressed ASC. Ex. it felt like 5 years ago they were very harmonious and pleasent but not anymore, and then they find out SEVEN years ago according to the 1.5 year method their venus was exactly conjunct the ascendent. And then they find yet another clue that 3 years later they felt incredibly in tuned to the Solar energy. but yet the 1.5 degree per year suggests that their ASC should have conjunct the sun exact 2 years later after that. So the person realizes where there progressed ASC actually is, in correlation to the planets. Clues like that can help.
(they find out that they feel very less solarian after 2 more years from when they felt VERY solarian, so they therefore make the conclusion, WHERE their P. Asc lies) IP: Logged |
soren
Knowflake Posts: 906
From: right by vancouver, bc, canada
Registered: Sep 2012
|
posted July 17, 2016 11:47 AM
bumpIP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27164
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
|
posted July 17, 2016 12:01 PM
I think I found it in solar fire. Sounds like it is what they call the annual profection.
I will give it a thorough look, but so far it DOES look quite fitting (though this does not discredit the secondary progressions either, which have proven to be very timesensitive in the past as well). IP: Logged |
soren
Knowflake Posts: 906
From: right by vancouver, bc, canada
Registered: Sep 2012
|
posted July 17, 2016 12:03 PM
 well thats cool that it seems accurate for you. using primary directions as your method? or both?im not sure what profation is, but i think it progresses at just whatever physical/anotomical rate your brain begins to tune into secondary locking-ins. it had to be at a certain rate. happens to tune into the outer lockings that took place in real time by 6 minutes, youre brain will expand slightly to the lock ins it made every 6 minutes after your birth when you are years old, per year you'll tune into another 6 minute increment that the planets engrained IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27164
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
|
posted July 17, 2016 12:11 PM
hm, no, I was speaking to soon. Doesn`t make that much sense after a second look. I guess the death of my grandmother shouldn´t be signified by Sun conjunct Jupiter. (in the sp chart it aligned with pMoon on pDESC squaring Pluto exact and opposed by Tr Pluto, along with the tertiary pMoon on pASC conjunct Tr Pluto and square natal Pluto - incidentally on HER natal Sun-Mars-Pluto conjunction which was opposed by Tr Pluto).
I will give it a more thorough look with other people`s charts though.
IP: Logged |
soren
Knowflake Posts: 906
From: right by vancouver, bc, canada
Registered: Sep 2012
|
posted July 17, 2016 12:13 PM
so you are trying out different rates your ascendent progresses for secondary progressions?in any case, with 1-2 degrees on average, it shouldnt be off by more than 10-15 degrees. also our progressed charts first and foremost effects ourselves. im sure everything is interwebbed and connected, but mostly to yourself i may be wrong though. cause looking back my sun progressed to the 12th. and then i did feel much different. i felt more connected to girls than before. my aunt moved in a few months later because my grandpa died and so she didnt need to take care of him. she had no other family so she moved way up north to live with me and my father. IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27164
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
|
posted July 17, 2016 12:22 PM
"so you are trying out different rates your ascendent progresses for secondary progressions?"
Yes.
I stick to Naibod in RA though.
It`s the one astro.com uses, I think, and it`s also the one that yielded the most astonishing results in timing for me and people around me. "in any case, with 1-2 degrees on average, it shouldnt be off by more than 10-15 degrees."
I am not sure I understand what you say. What shouldn`t be off by more than 10-15 degrees?
(the different calcuation are close to each other, but in terms of activations of events, I aim for precision. Which means an orb of 2 degrees in most cases is just not specific enough). "also our progressed charts first and foremost effects ourselves. im sure everything is interwebbed and connected, but mostly to yourselfyes," Yes and no. The external and the internal go hand in hand. Not only due to my grandmother`s passing this had been a REAL tough year emotionally; of course bringing a katharsis, but to become a Phoenix you first have to burn to ashes, right?
Very Plutonic and emotional. IP: Logged |
soren
Knowflake Posts: 906
From: right by vancouver, bc, canada
Registered: Sep 2012
|
posted July 17, 2016 12:26 PM
sorry about your tough time. you'll get through it i knowahh i see you are looking for very precise results. and i meant your progressed ascendent should still be accurate and be closer than 15 degrees to it's actual spot if you use the 1.5 DPY (degree per year) method (which is what we are trying to figure out- where the p. asc actually is) IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27164
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
|
posted July 17, 2016 12:39 PM
I am still not sure I have the right calculation for the primary directions. The one they call "annual profection" directs the chart by 30 degrees per year, and the directed ASC is used to see what it conjuncts in the natal chart (conventionally at least). Is that what you meant?
Or rather mundane primary directions?
"This method directs chart points along their respective diurnal arcs according to the rotation of the earth about its axis"
For this one there are different rates of calculation, too:
"1 Year per Degree (Ptolemy) - The progression rate is exactly one degree of arc for each year of life. Naibod (1 Year for 59’08’’) - The progression rate is 59’08’’ of arc for each year of life. Natal Solar Rate - The progression rate is the natal Sun’s rate of motion in R.A. for each year of life."
Which one do you recommend I should check?
IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27164
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
|
posted July 17, 2016 12:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by soren:
sorry about your tough time. you'll get through it i know
Thank you. But I`ve made it through, this was in 2013. Though I`ve been through quite some tough time this spring as well, not just as bad of course, but I guess those times just happen on a regular basis.
IP: Logged |
soren
Knowflake Posts: 906
From: right by vancouver, bc, canada
Registered: Sep 2012
|
posted July 17, 2016 12:43 PM
well i think all our minds might even unfold at different rates. its what someone suggested before. its a possibility. i dont think we can get an exact answer but we can get somewhere close and then we have to look inside ourselves and feel where the exact location is.and I guess i am closest to Ptolemy, i should have told you in the first place. but like i said, we can only make a mass consensus at the rate of an average ascendent progression per year. otherwise we cant tell. but we already know, at least thats what linda goodman taught that your asc progresses 1-2 degrees a year. IP: Logged |
soren
Knowflake Posts: 906
From: right by vancouver, bc, canada
Registered: Sep 2012
|
posted July 17, 2016 12:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
not just as bad of course, but I guess those times just happen on a regular basis.
Not always. Just when you are in a tough area, I've been doing good for a year and a half around there :thumsbup:
and i hadn't had many tough times IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27164
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
|
posted July 17, 2016 12:59 PM
thank you for your answer. (I have already picked the Ptolemaic method, though I DO have to say I should be given the annual profection another look. I realized I was looking into the wrong month, int he month my grandmother actually died. I was having:
PF Pluto conjunct Sun (PF= profected I think): 5 days before her death PF Vertex conjunct Pluto: 5 days after her death and on the exact day of her funeral (though it was also one day before I had an encounter that was proving to be crucial and a cross-road-moment for me; some of how it unfolds I am seeing just now).
(this encounter was also probably reflected in
PF ASC conjunct BML
PF Mars conjunct BML
followed by PF Saturn conjunct MC
PF MC conjunct Mercury, my DESCruler)
As for the primary directions at that timeframe:
There was nothing going on that year in terms of conjunctions, however there was:
about a month before my grandmother`s death and when it became evident she would not recover this time (along with some heartbreak on another level for me). Primary ASC square Saturn (which makes sense)
not so sure about these making sense though:
primary Mars conjunct Uranus
primary Jupiter conjunct Antivertex and Sun/Moon-mp
Anyway the secondary progressions still seem more descriptive to me, but I keep my eyes on primaries as well. Maybe I will run some marriage dates through the computer.
IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27164
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
|
posted July 17, 2016 01:03 PM
Great you are having good times.
I do think that some of it is also up to interpretation. What I view as tough, others might not even notice.
Well this year was just tough in terms of workload, and then when the mother of my best friend died quite of a sudden (within 3 weeks after being diagnosed), and things like that always get to me. I can`t quite shake them off. But of course there also have been a lot of really great things happening, and sometimes those also feel exhausting. lol But I really cannot complain. I am having a good life.  IP: Logged |
soren
Knowflake Posts: 906
From: right by vancouver, bc, canada
Registered: Sep 2012
|
posted July 17, 2016 01:11 PM
the only things to mainly take note of in primary directions is new planetary aspects to angles, and planets changing houses, and the moon progressing up to 3 degrees in a life (by age 90)I just say this because you mentioned "Primary Mars conjunct Uranus"
Primary mars wont move at all (less than 0.2 degrees) from its natal position in the zodiac. It only moves in the houses. So not sure if you are interpretting it the way I do (and i think i do it right) IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27164
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
|
posted July 17, 2016 01:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by soren:
"
Primary mars wont move at all (less than 0.2 degrees) from its natal position in the zodiac. It only moves in the houses. So not sure if you are interpretting it the way I do (and i think i do it right)
Then it probably is not the primary direction method you use. I did not do anything, but click the boxes in solar fire. IP: Logged |
soren
Knowflake Posts: 906
From: right by vancouver, bc, canada
Registered: Sep 2012
|
posted July 17, 2016 01:20 PM
Primary directions is named what it is because it was the first instances of the planets hours after your birth. IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27164
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
|
posted July 17, 2016 01:25 PM
for those interested
http://www.martingansten.com/pdf/PrimaryDirectionsChapter.pdf *sighs* And I guess I have to do it all manually.
And yes makes sense, so it pretty much equates the hours to a year of life instead of the days, as secondary progressions do?
And so only the angles would change, and maybe the Moon depending on the age, but the other planets not as much.
IP: Logged |
soren
Knowflake Posts: 906
From: right by vancouver, bc, canada
Registered: Sep 2012
|
posted July 17, 2016 01:31 PM
Not an hour = a year of life, 4 minutes.But it might be 6 minutes. Because we know that an asc progresses 1.5 years on average. and it takes 6 minutes for the earth to spin 1.5 degrees through the zodiac. Yes to everything else its very simple IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
Moderator Posts: 27164
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
|
posted July 17, 2016 01:32 PM
So since I am 41 year old, I would multiply 41 with 4 minutes?giving 164 minutes or: 2 hours 44 minutes. Since I was born at 7: 07 a.m., I add those 2 hours and 44 minutes to arrive at: 9:51 a.m., and that would be the progressed birthtime for this year for me?
And if I wanted to check 2013, when I was 38 years old this would have been 12 minutes earlier, so 9:39 a.m.?
IP: Logged |
soren
Knowflake Posts: 906
From: right by vancouver, bc, canada
Registered: Sep 2012
|
posted July 17, 2016 01:33 PM
correcto mundo (but i'd use the 4 minutes sparingly, as in, maybe 6 minutes)you are trying it for the first time, so try 4, and then use your own interpretation, maybe you will find 6 accurate. IP: Logged |
Lindaland
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
