posted July 17, 2016 01:38 PM            

For 2013, the year my grandmother died, this resulted in an directed ASC of 9°43 Capricorn for me, not really conjunct anything though I see that it must have been conjuncted my Venus on 6°07 Capricorn, 3 degrees prior to that.

Anyway it WAS square my Pluto on 9°04 Libra, if an orb of one degree is permisseable.

MC was on 15 scorpio, but not aspecting anything within one degree orb.

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For this year I would find

directed ASC 12°56 Capricorn

directed MC 18°07 Scorpio
square natal Moon on 17°06 Aqua and directed Moon on 18°27 Aquarius

directed Vertex opposing BML with 0°07, which makes sense I must admit.

posted July 17, 2016 01:43 PM            

you can look for other similar clues such as this. notable conjunctions to angles. they are actually extremely significant as many celebrities have exact conjunctions to asc or Mh for example. so they are very notable in progressed.

and i would use regular orbs. a square is still 6-8 degrees

posted July 17, 2016 01:46 PM            

To be honest I think my Venus-time is more or less about now, either a year back or even in the year to come.

posted July 17, 2016 01:49 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Well I think it should be astronomically reasoned why we use 4 or 6 minutes, not just picking the number we like, that seems so.... unscientific to me.

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posted July 17, 2016 01:50 PM            

Well 3 years agoo MC was on 3 SAg then, 1,5 degrees applying to Mars.
And this year and last year it would have actually been conjunct my natal ASC exact (and obviously applying fast to my NN which is 3 degrees of my natal ASC).

Vertex 3 years ago was squaring my ASC,
Now Vertex is opposing my Jupiter-Ceres and squaring my nodal axis, which seems significant.

posted July 17, 2016 01:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by soren:
The only scientific way to go about it is to say we don't know at what rate our ascendent moves.

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The ascendant is a calculated point. Of course we can say at what rate it moves, but it comes down to choosing a system I suppose, as there are just theories out there.

I didn`t think the 6 minutes were arbitrary, for my taste it is just not specific enough.

posted July 17, 2016 01:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
The ascendant is a calculated point. Of course we can say at what rate it moves, but it comes down to choosing a system I suppose, as there are just theories out there.

I didn`t think the 6 minutes were arbitrary, for my taste it is just not specific enough.

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posted July 17, 2016 02:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Sorry, I don`t mean to be offensive, but that is too wishy-washy to me, with the unfolding of the mind. Too subjective.
(subjectiveness might come in with interpretations, but should be kept out of calculations).

Just my opinion

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Ok. What do you think your progressed chart is?

What causes it? when you were born with the sun in the first house, your brain is getting locked into the sun being in the first; firey; aries. now lets say that 20 minutes after you were born, the sun moved up into the 12th. now you brain is no longer hard-wiring itself to the first, but to the 12th.

Then in your progressed chart, your mind begins to tune into the initial lock ins that you made after your first minutes. Your natal chart is in first house. but some time around 5 years old, you start tuning into the progressions that happened 20 minutes after birth which was of having the sun in the 12th. this would be the most raw expression of the sun changing houses in your life. yet its completely over looked by secondary progressions.

posted July 17, 2016 04:13 PM            

I do not see the situation you've described in your chart. I think you are confusing yourself with a secondary progressed chart instead of looking at the North Node's progressed position against the backdrop of your natal chart and its houses.

If the 24 Libra chart we talked about in email is correct, then the natal N.Node 22CAN09-Rx is well into the 9th and in progression will only inch very slowly through your lifetime back through that house. That would also be true for any nearby Asc in Libra.

This is an example of how easy it is to take free charts, progressions, all kinds of charts and things, and confuse yourself. Laypersons are best off choosing transits & natal chart as their option for tracking trends.

Voix_de_la_Mer's question had nothing to do with primary directions.

posted July 17, 2016 04:20 PM            

but I am not going to discuss something with someone who is getting that patronizing with me.

Also both, primary and secondary progressions, use a very symbolic approach. in that we could ask the same question to primary directions as well: why would an hour or two hours or 4 hours after the actual birth be indicative of a specific year of life?
That is the same symbolic approach as saying the 1st day after life symbolizes the 1st year - same underlying thought, just the time-unit is different (hours instead of days).

To be honest this approach seemed rather farfetched to me from the beginning (no matter what progressed method), but it works (as from observation of my own, my friends and relative`s charts at different timeframes in their lives, and it obviously also worked in the 2000 cases Paul Westran researched)

Oh and I`ll always be a 1st house sun, no matter where my progressions are; they are not replacing my natal chart, but trigger it and bring it into manifestation, and maybe add another layer to the natal, but the natal is still the basic chart, and doesn`t stop being valid, just because of progressions.

And yes, I know, I am right, too.

posted July 17, 2016 04:25 PM            

I always put the most emphasis on the houses in the natal chart, that contain planets, being triggered by the progressed chart.

But how do you view the progressed houses?

For example, my pr Moon is in my natal 8th house, but in progressed 7th house. (and is currently trine my natal Sun-Mercury in 1st house; well the trine to Mercury happened on 7th july; the one to Sun is coming up at 29th july).

Anyway, it seems clear to me that the overlay of my 8th house is the one that is basic, but would you consider the fact that pMoon is in p7th as important? Or can that be neglected?

posted July 17, 2016 10:21 PM            

You say its symbolic but you don't provide any ideas of how it works, nor have you refuted my opinion.

If you aren't able to first take in my opinion, and then secondly give a reason for a flaw, then there's no point in debating in the first place.

If you "theoretically" tune into the planetary's energies from your 3rd day of life, on your 3rd day of life, where are you drawing the energy from?

A metaphysical time stamp

posted July 17, 2016 11:40 PM            

All forces at work are consistent. They are always doing the same thing through time. If they weren't- they wouldn't really hold a place in our reality. Like if gravity for 3 seconds was at its normal strength, and then all of a sudden it got 100 times stronger, and everything got drawn together pulled by gravity, and then it switched again to be 20 times weaker, that is not consitent, and we havn't measured the happenings I just described in science. Everything we measure is consistent in force. Even astrology. The signs never change. The planets descriptions of the planets core energy itself and it's effect on the personality do not change.

This is what science does; it measures the forces that be.

Symbolism has no place in science. Astrology is either real; or its all in peoples heads. If its symbolic how astrology works; that is the thing that is wishy-washy as you described for something you would not like to believe in.

I believe astrology is real. Which means there are litteral forces at work in the planets that are felt. Metaphysical, quantum physical- I don't know what the force is called, all I know is I can personally look inside myself and know when I experience a progression. But I can't use that in a debate.

So if astrology are REAL forces at work (and not just some psychic phenomena such as people manifesting the traits of their birth chart through collective conciousness, which seems quite irrational to think IMO because intuitive feelings don't have a harbouring/lingering effect on people that much IMO because the world is at a constant rate of motion etherally and nothing can be too very much "engrained")

So if real astrology forces are at work- these astrological instances in our character may be measured. Like if you drop a ball from the top of a tree, we can measure how long it takes to "pass the 3rd branch from the top." What you DONT do (which im not insuniating you believe) is say that since it's the 3rd branch down, it should take 3 seconds in order for it to pass that 3rd branch. symbolism has no place in science.

Although I'm aware that secondary progressions aren't neccesarily symbolic, they may be insinuating the coming together of powerful forces have a "tie" such as the sun's complete rotation around the earth and returning to the same place would correspond to the earth rotating fully complete around the sun and having the sun return to its same spot it initially was in it just takes a while.

posted July 18, 2016 01:09 PM            

ceri~you have fantastic astro abilities

posted July 18, 2016 01:31 PM            

if an 8 degree conjunction of neptune to the asc in the natal chart had a power of 700.

an exact conjunction of neptune to the asc has a power of 5000.

now lets just theoretically say that the natal is 90% of your chart for life, your current progressed is 5%.

therefore 90/5 means it is 18 times as strong. therefore the strength of an 8 degree neptune conjunction to asc in a progressed chart would have a strength of 39, and an exact conjunction of the same planet in progressed would have a strength of 278, which would be more notable of an event.

since we all have different house placements; for me personally i look to my progressed chart not to predict events but just to learn my own personality (first house)

posted July 18, 2016 02:04 PM            

The Natal is 100% of your chart for life
any other chart that pertains to you ie progression, relocation, synastry etc. is just a side-product of the Natal.

as for your Neptune conjunct Asc. example, yes you do feel it way before the fact because you have it in your Natal Chart. A Progression Chart is time specific and will predict an event. It is important to note here that the progressed Moon is usually the trigger.