posted December 13, 2016 09:34 AM            

This would nto have become so blown up, if you had actually addressed the concerns the first time they were mentioned. But you chose not to.
And we chose not to keep quiet, like at least I have done so many times before.

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All of this is ridiculous as a matter of fact, And I for my part am fed up with talking about you all day. So au revoir (hopefully).

Though I definitely will be back to kindly point out to you if I think you are insulting someone. That is MY call to make.

BTW

The mentally ill remark, I genuinely believe, was stemming from concern really, not meant as an insult.
To be honest, while I wouldn`t go so far, as I don`t do diagnosis like this, but I find your perception of reality quite warped as well.

It is of course just MY perception, by observing how you interact with others.

I believe this is what Faith also wanted to express, that she can`t understand how you cannot see our concern or yes, criticism.

posted December 13, 2016 09:35 AM            

Don't read me if you don't like how I am kind of "airy fairy/intuitive" in my descriptions of Ascendants.

Don't read me if you think I have immature Astrology.

If I make an error, point it out N I C E L Y.

MOVE ON!

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Want to Read Simple, Fun,Sexy Articles on Astrology? Check Me Out, DUDE.

posted December 13, 2016 09:36 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Alright Faith. Although we can just discuss the OP, and not respond to personal stuff?
(I know that's hard, I just don't want anyone to feel excluded from the discussion, as this is a community issue)

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It was never my intention to stifle discussion.

On the contrary, I hope that by exiting the thread, the focal point will be the OP, and not me. Cheers, best wishes, etc.

ETA: I do have one thing to say:

quote:

---

The mentally ill remark, I genuinely believe, was stemming from concern really, not meant as an insult.
To be honest, while I wouldn`t go so far, as I don`t do diagnosis like this, but I find your perception of reality quite warped as well.

---

I have no memory of calling Ami mentally ill.

I don't know what is being discussed here.

posted December 13, 2016 09:41 AM            

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Want to Read Simple, Fun,Sexy Articles on Astrology? Check Me Out, DUDE.

posted December 13, 2016 09:56 AM            

---------------------------------------------

I don't do astrology on famous people so I am not too up on the sources for that data, do you think we can construct a list of sources that we can link our facts to?

The only one I can think of is:

Astrodatabank (on Astro.com)

--------------------------------------------

If we can do this, we could then write sample standards outlines for threads stating facts (such as what Nordicsoul wrote) and ask Randall if they could be posted somewhere visible for relevant forums?

Here is Nordicsoul's example:

can we agree in some basic standard for any forum (brainstorming or academic)
1. source for chart data when is not the personal data
2. plagiarism is forbidden. Period
3. any participant in the forum can object accuracy if found faulty data or plagiarism
4. owner of the thread revise data and correct accordingly. failure to that results in closing of the thread, the post is closed by moderator (or ethical committee if created or something) with a disclaimer for closure "closed because of inaccuracy on chart data discussed" or "closed because some information is taken from other websites or sources without proper acknowledge

when it is about articles all the above applies, plus a more detail oriented standards. we can use any followed by scientific communities. no need to invent the wheel here
(I corrected "scientific" Nordicsoul - sorry!! - Virgo Moon!!)

posted December 13, 2016 09:57 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
This has been discussed for 4 days. DON"T witch hunt me.

Don't read me if you don't like how I am kind of "airy fairy/intuitive" in my descriptions of Ascendants.

Don't read me if you think I have immature Astrology.

If I make an error, point it out [b]N I C E L Y.

MOVE ON!

[/B]

---

What is immature astrology? I don't associate lies with immaturity. I'm reading Enneline's provided links and I'm appalled.

I really want for you to explain how you can post unconfirmed info like it's a fact. People make mistake, but they should also be able to admit said mistake and correct it. It's the basic no ? Amid all this witch-hunting calling, I still didn't see an apology or your willingness to correct your mistake. Even worse, you come to this productive discussion with more drama and nothing about integrity and accuracy. I'm very disappointed!
Is this nicely enough for you ?

posted December 13, 2016 10:09 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nordicsoul:
not addressed to me, but I think that if a site want to ensure integrity of data, solid research prestige, etc, it muss do something to ensure that. this is like thinking that if you do not have police nobody will commit crime. Law enforcement exist for one reason.

personally i never visited this site searching for academic astrology, i use astrology as a hobby and my expectations are not high regarding this site. however, I do understand (especially from the professional astrologers here) that if this website want to be perceived in the external and internal community as much more than a place people come to speculate without base then standards should be in place and be enforced.

do we want all the sections of the place to be academic? not me. I wish an area like this one where I can exchange ideas without having to go to the exact page where i read something to be able to quote the source. a more freely discussion forum. but, do I want all discussions to be like that? hum... I would prefer to see articles with solid standards and be able to ask question to the author. to enrich my knowledge! so as I have said previously and some others here, I would like two sets of standards: 1 for forum discussion (etiquette rules apply) and one for articles posted (with academic standards). and both type of sections with disclaimers differentiating both.

then we have the issue of beginners versus advanced. at this point, better to have just 1 all level discussion (brainstorming) forum and forget about beginners versus advance forum. at the end everybody will always come to advance no matter how much they are pushed toward beginners.

anybody who wants to educate with articles, they have article section with questions associated to the article and nothing else. and the discussion forums divided by thematic as they are now. that would mean that will not have articles in the discussion forum. this will prevent any low standard article to sneak around. we will have posts for brainstorming.

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Sorry to keep quoting you (although it's been in agreement), but I really do completely agree with this.

I also don't want to have to hassle with feeling like I'm writing a paper every time I post a thread or respond, and I don't often want to read lengthy articles.

I actually prefer personal experience and observation combined with basic knowledge when it comes to astrology. I find it easier to digest, as I'm not heavily invested in learning everything about it (although it comes in waves).

Anyway, I really like this idea. A separate place for people who want to post articles or professional observations/theories, or whatever.

Otherwise, it should be stated that the other forums are not meant to be taken as professional advice, or something to that effect (in my opinion).

posted December 13, 2016 10:16 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nordicsoul:
the only counterargument I have about this proposal is that where do you put a line between professional and non professional. should we say that standards apply only to professionals? then the rest (me included) will not need to follow these standards?

I am just afraid that if we apply same academic standards to any forum section it will become too rigid. and if we apply only these standards to professional charging for services then standards will be personalized and not equal for everybody. I would like to be able to discuss things in a sort of speculative fashion in one part of the forums. Would that be possible in a forum with academic standards? To be honest, I dont know and I am open to be convinced.

in anycase, applying academic standards to all forums would be an entire change in this website. maybe a positive one, but the nature of the website will change.

---

I do agree with you. But yes, I think it should really only be applicable to people who are professionals (i.e. people who charge money for their services), or they should offer up a disclaimer of some sort, if they're not willing or able to back up their information with sources.

Although that does seem somewhat draconian, but really... I do think that professionals on here should be held accountable for what they're offering up as far as information, or otherwise say that it's only speculation on their part if they wish to simply engage in the normal types of posts we have here.

I have no idea how that would possibly be enforced, though. Like no one wants to hover around these people taking note of whether or not they're properly listing their references, but it's obviously a problem here, so...

posted December 13, 2016 10:34 AM            

Just now read through the entire thread after I had posted.

Anyway.

posted December 13, 2016 11:19 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
If I made an error and people KINDLY told me, I would look, but I won't respond to witch hunts, Ceri. Sorry!

Also, I have quoted the horrible things Faith said to me on a SINGLE day.

She said I was mentally ill, a liar and made her want to throw up.

That should not be allowed. N'cest pas?

---

She didn't call you mentally ill, nor did she say you make her want to throw up.

There are a lot more people here with issues towards you than Faith, and you might be attributing their words to her since you're making her your target of ammunition.

Also Duke University might want to rearrange their French 101 classes because I noticed you throw that phrase around a lot and that's just a bunch of word salad in French. Nonsensical.

If you're trying to say "Is it not?" the translation would be "N'est-ce pas?"

Given the context on how you've always used your "n'cest pas" I don't think that would make sense either.

posted December 13, 2016 11:46 AM            

Astrology contains a lot of interpretation which can be foggy due to free will, environment, and the fact that no matter how much we desire to, we can NEVER separate a placement from the whole chart. Also there's obviously biases that occur. We're human. That's why it takes years to be fluent in it. Even among professionals there will be disagreement. It's simply not set in stone. It's set in a fluid, you could say. OK I'm getting weird here.

It makes sense to name the reference used for concrete information that even someone who doesn't know astrology could understand such as birth information. It's true or it isn't. Even then we have to keep in mind that there could be two or more sources for the information (that we're using as reference) that disagree with each other. There will be disagreement if a celebrity said such and such time and maybe they've said two different times over the years. I've seen this word of mouth birth time be completely wrong. Some may argue that it needs rectified. It goes on.

posted December 13, 2016 11:53 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Violets:
Sorry to keep quoting you (although it's been in agreement), but I really do completely agree with this.

I also don't want to have to hassle with feeling like I'm writing a paper every time I post a thread or respond, and I don't often want to read lengthy articles.

I actually prefer personal experience and observation combined with basic knowledge when it comes to astrology. I find it easier to digest, as I'm not heavily invested in learning everything about it (although it comes in waves).

Anyway, I really like this idea. A separate place for people who want to post articles or professional observations/theories, or whatever.

Otherwise, it should be stated that the other forums are not meant to be taken as professional advice, or something to that effect (in my opinion).

But then it's early in the morning where I'm at, and I'm not expressing myself very coherently at the moment. Hi, Mercury Rx.

---

posted December 13, 2016 12:03 PM            

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted December 13, 2016 12:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
So many people leave because of you.

I'm not lying.

Seems like you are on a "witch hunt" to bother people to the point where this place is not inhabitable for them any more.

I've left before because of you.

I know several others who have, too. Some of them have unregistered in protest of you.

So who is the one running people out of LL?

I think it's you.

---

I also stopped reading this site on a regular basis because of a few people - Ami was the first on that list. I should add that I am a big fan of pop astrology, astrology is a hobby I use for relaxation purposes; I have won a lifetime subscription on mysticmedusa.com, because I enjoy the content there and I visit that site almost every day; but this is not pop astrology. This is complete and utter nonsense; the real tidbits of info get diluted amongst false info (btw, to whom it may concern, venus in aries in men likes to chase and venus in aries in women likes to be chased, the damsel in distress syndome). I just can't with this.

The reason that I keep visiting is for people like Vajra, Venus di Sirius, Voix, lalalinda, there are many, many great voices here; or at least, they used to be. One can only hope that it will come back at some point, after all history is cyclical.

posted December 13, 2016 12:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nordicsoul:
Voix

no problem in getting corrections.. I never proofread my post, which I should more often.

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No, please ignore me, I just didn't want you to notice I'd done it and then think I was sneaking!

posted December 13, 2016 12:15 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nordicsoul:
Violet I do not have problem being quoted. Not by you in any case. I guess we have not offended each other, or so I hope. Best!

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posted December 13, 2016 04:27 PM            

So, what is the consensus from everyone?

posted December 13, 2016 05:07 PM            

I support/propose (for astrology forums)

- accuracy and due-diligence (mentioned in some kind of LL disclaimer for astrology, in general)

- chart data sourcing for articles

- explanation/backup research of educational articles upon request

- anyone can correct errors

- identified errors to be corrected before the conversation continues, with an apology

- moderator intervention if the above fails, with thread closing (+ disclaimer) if errors not corrected

- Violets's idea with disclaimer + backup research presentation for professional astrologers (promoting a professional site). Here I need Violets's help Or other formula for professional accountability.

Not necessarily with these words, but that's the idea.

I am looking now to see the integrity and accuracy LL wants.

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted December 13, 2016 05:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
It was never my intention to stifle discussion.

On the contrary, I hope that by exiting the thread, the focal point will be the OP, and not me. Cheers, best wishes, etc.

---

posted December 13, 2016 05:23 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Voix, I can't express enough how I appreciate you making this thread, the help you're providing and your love for LL, and the kindness, wisdom and patience you show in this thread

I support/propose (for astrology forums)

- accuracy and due-diligence (mentioned in some kind of LL disclaimer for astrology, in general)

- chart data sourcing for articles

- explanation/backup research of educational articles upon request

- anyone can correct errors

- identified errors to be corrected before the conversation continues, with an apology

- moderator intervention if the above fails, with thread closing (+ disclaimer) if errors not corrected

- Violets's idea with disclaimer + backup research presentation for professional astrologers (promoting a professional site). Here I need Violets's help Or other formula for professional accountability.

Not necessarily with these words, but that's the idea.

I am looking now to see the integrity and accuracy LL wants.

---

Shucks! LL is a great community with such a diverse range of topics - I do love it. And the calibre of the conversations on here - even when we are disagreeing - is second to none. Caring for it is easy-peasy

I like your proposals Leeloo!