posted March 04, 2020 02:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ULT12:
@Kannon or GCE:

Do you attribute any meaning to if a person was born "late/early"?

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No.

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The Scorpio that many of you are seeing IS there, but in Moon in Scorpio which by nature of it being one of the lights is shining over, obscuring the Ascendant's actual sign. That's what happens anytime a luminary -- Sun or Moon -- is that close to the Asc. The Asc late in the previous sign is not as obvious because of the luminary's light so near it.

posted March 09, 2020 12:23 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
No.

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The Scorpio that many of you are seeing IS there, but in Moon in Scorpio which by nature of it being one of the lights is shining over, obscuring the Ascendant's actual sign. That's what happens anytime a luminary -- Sun or Moon -- is that close to the Asc. The Asc late in the previous sign is not as obvious because of the luminary's light so near it.

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You are correct, but not in the way you are framing it. When the Sun or Moon is close to the Asc, it tends to overshadow much of the Sign energy(s) involved, and thus the Sun or Moon ITSELF becomes very highlighted. This is true for ANY planetary conjunction to the Asc in general, but especially so for the Sun and Moon, being as you outlined, the "Lights".

I wouldn't say that Harrison was uber Lunar by any means, and along with his looks (taller, leaner, etc) and personality, argues for a Scorp Rising with Aqua Mercury closely square same, and the Moon not closely conjunct.

Both the Moon and Scorpio are archetypes that in an archetypal sense, incline to easily gaining weight, and on the shorter side, neither of which applies to him. Put them BOTH together, and it double emphasizes a slow metabolism and lower end of average to shorter height. Strong Mercury in connection with the Asc on the other hand, correlates with fast metabolism, learner and thinner frame, and frequently indicates increased height over the archetype of the Sign(s) involved.

After all, Gemini is in the archetypal sense, the 2nd tallest of all the Signs behind Sagittarius, and Virgo is quite often the tallest of the Yin Signs though the Yin Signs are not "tall" in an archetypal sense. The Yin Signs in an archetypal sense, range from average to below average unless there are counter balancing factors.

For example, on another thread, I noted a person who I know with Virgo Rising who is taller than average. From what I can tell, around 6'2" or so. Virgo Jupiter is the Planet closest to his Rising Sign, and his rising ruler, Mercury, is in Sagittarius.

We don't know his exact birth time. Because he has such a pole bean/skinny frame, I doubt that Jupiter is particularly close. If it's conjunct the Asc, it's widely so, i.e. 6* plus separation.

I've figured out that Jeff Goldblum has Virgo Rising cusping Leo, with his ruling Planet in Scorpio closely opposed Taurus Jupiter and closely trine Cancer Uranus. He is unusually tall for a Virgo Rising as well, at around 6'4" during his prime. Also, with Mercury in Scorpio with those particular aspects, it outlines that he is likely larger than average in the Scorpio area.

posted March 09, 2020 07:08 PM            

I'd already checked out the possibility of a Scorpio rising chart years ago since that is the very question presented by the birth time/rectification scenario. There isn't one. I made no starting assumptions, but looked for the evidence. The Asc degree area you're suggesting simply does not exist as an authentic possibility for him.

I'll give more illustrations of the astrological evidence for this 26° Libra chart ...

Peaks of George Harrison's career

1. With The Beatles during Beatlemania, peaking for certain with their US tour and performances which began with the 9 February 1964 appearance on the Ed Sullivan show. Pluto was in transit at 19.5° north applying parallel to natal MC +/-18.7° north (of the 26° Libra chart). It continued tightening in this transit as the band increased in popularity through 1966. This was the cultivation of Harrison's worldwide audience and influence leading to his second career peak ...

2. His solo career riding on the release of the LP All Things Must Pass, and peaking at The Concert for Bangladesh 1 August 1971 which drew 40,000 people. Here are the transits:

3. Career peak with The Traveling Wilburys. Their Vol. 1 LP sold well and was awarded a Grammy for best rock group/duo on 21 February 1990. Here are the transits:

Further evidence found in his personal life events

1. The year he separated from first wife Patti (1974) Uranus was conjunct Asc 26° (and Chiron opposite it), but before being conjunct natal Moon. This is a particularly important sequence to recognize. The Uranus transit to natal Asc marks a period of ending one cycle related to personal liberties, especially those gone too far or not asserted far enough, and a beginning of a new cycle affecting primary relationship and relations with others in general. George had been taking too many liberties in his dalliances with other women and Patti got tired of it and left him for Eric Clapton once he was out of rehab in 1974. Clapton began recording again in April 1974 only after he'd recovered from heroin addiction. LP was released in July, so I take that as the mark for a reasonable approximation of the period when Patti left George for Eric. Transits:

2. Their divorce was finalized 9 June 1977. Notice that the transiting Lunar Nodes are under 4° from the relational axis, but well out of range of conjunction to natal Moon. Also Venus-Mars-Chiron well into 7th which would not be in a hypothetical chart set +/9° Scorpio. Mercury marks the news with its quincunx to natal Asc.

3. The release of his album Gone Troppo on 5 November 1982 got little notice. From then he retreated for about 5 years. Five year periods especially involving withdrawal are a neon sign indicating a major angular Pluto transit to a very personal natal point. That was Saturn & Pluto bringing on end to one cycle so he could start another. The transits:

This is how a person with lots of experience in rectification looks at the transits of life events. Transits are the easiest of the planetary trends tools to discern and apply.

At the very minimum the transit timing of these last three events all but disprove the notion of an early Scorpio rising chart, certainly any chart in which the Asc is past a close conjunction to Moon. In spite of the first event only being approximated, together they show the transit sequences at work in his life.

I could go on and on and on with not only the transits for various life events and sequences in George's life, but the progressions as well. If you can't read the transits and see what they point to, then you'd be absolutely lost in the progressions.

The problem is you're stuck in theoretical ideations generating lots of words, but with little or no substance or work behind them. If you want to be convincing, then do the work -- and be able to demonstrate it in real astrological terms. Otherwise you just become a contrarian Aquarian or an insufferable know-it-all.

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References used are the wikipedia pages for The Beatles, George Harrison, Patti Boyd, Eric Clapton, and the page for Clapton's 1974 LP 461 Ocean Boulevard.

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Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert birth chart rectification

posted March 10, 2020 01:06 PM            

To be honest, the only chart that I find somewhat convincing and impressive as to your hypothesis, is the initial break up with Patti one.

In the first chart you shared, the Concert for Bangladesh, literally all that is going on is a T. Sun to MC and T. Saturn sextile/parallel to MC. Sun transits are notoriously weak, and when and if they are showing up, it's usually as a support pattern to the big hitters like Nodes/Jupiter through Pluto.
Then there is the rule of 3 with major events that tends to run true and that I look for.

So I played around a bit, and I think I was both off and correct about his chart. I think he still had Scorpio Rising, but later, the leanness and height corresponds more with a very close Cap Mars sextile to his Asc point and it's somewhat wide opposition to Jupiter (showing a bit of increase of height along with the Mars sextile), and Jupiter quincux the Asc point.

Note, the below chart I think is accurate to within about +/- 2 degrees.

The Mars, faster moving ruler of his Scorp. Asc closely sextile his Asc and opposed Jupiter aligns well with his prodigious sex drive.

But as to transits, let's look at this chart in relation to the Ed Sullivan show event. A most interesting and VERY holistically powerful chart is produced, as one might expect.
http://drive.google.com/open?id=1NXx0TrF4H3pSZgt1m0MpKQwC8aBTvQOF

Note that the MC is sandwiched almost exactly between the T. Pluto and Uranus conjunction, at it's mid point and yet still very much conjunct both still. Pluto, that of volcanic changes, major transformation, and general intensity. Uranus, that of the extremes and the unusual; the ultra forces. A very good correlation with this event, as this event helped them to skyrocket to extreme/unusual stardom.

Note that the ruler of both his Sun AND his Angular 4th House IC point, Neptune, is closely conjunct his Asc. It was probably a very odd and confusing time for him. Here is this rather private person, who loves making music and wants people to enjoy his music, and probably wants to make lots of money doing same, and at the same time, both his dream and his nightmare is coming true. The nightmare being the loss of privacy and being thrust in the limelight to an unusual degree. The ruler of the Sun being closely conjunct the Asc, highlights the limelight aspect (since the Sun is literally the "Light" of our system).

Also, when Neptune is very powerful in a chart, whether Natal or Transit, people have a tendency to project onto you, and if in a situation like this, their fantasies and the more positive aspects of their shadow.

Note that this chart fits him far better in a personality, natal way as well, with the combo of Scorpio Asc, and Pisces conjunct his IC--this is a rather private and hidden person. This is the kind of person who could spent days upon days by himself, just gardening, and who disliked the fame aspect far more than any of the other Beatles.

This is not a Libra Rising with the Moon in their first. The Moon has it's introvert side, but it also has a wildley social side as well, which combined with Libra Rising would tend more towards the open and sociable.

But back to the transits for this day. We would expect the Houses of communication i.e. the 9th and 3rd axis to probably be highlighted for this day, since this live concert was being broadcast into many homes. The 9th corresponds to more broad, collective, universal communication. The 3rd to more everday, more normal communication. This event involved both since it was so widely broadcasted and watched, and yet, it was part of a normal, typical show otherwise.

Note that the ruler of the 9th, the Sun is in the 3rd in Aquarius and conjunct Mars and Saturn. Note that the Sun/Mars/Saturn conjunction in the 3rd is closely square both the Asc and T. Neptune, energizing the former aspects in relation to self more strongly, and indicating the coming challenges he would face with the loss of privacy and projection of others onto him.

Also note in the Natal that Mercury being the ruler of the MC, in Aquarius, opposed Leo Pluto. Because of, or via his career, he would tend to attract unusual and/or very obsessive people, and at times towards the violet or negative Plutonian. This correlates well with patterns like an obsessed fan breaking into his house and stabbing him.

Back to transits. Note that the ruler of the 2nd and co-ruler of the 4th, Jupiter, had just moved into the 5th House, which means that he had already been in a creative process, but now he was well into his way into earning vast sums of money (Sag + Jupiter) via creativity (5th). This time would also coincide with A LOT of sex due to their newfound popularity in general and especially with their teen and young women fans.

Note that the 11th House of friends, groups, collective creativity is also highlighted some at this time. For Venus is both the ruler of the 11th, and the next most public House to the MC, the 7th House. T. Venus is closely conjuncting N. Venus ruler of those Houses, and in Angular House (amplifiying area). It also shows symbolically that this new found popularity brings him some sense of inner security via this collective creativity and the group he is part of. Because at this point, the fame part and the heavier parts of same, haven't yet fully hit. Popularity of course, tends to puff up one's ego, which along with the money, would initially bring a sense of security.

Alright, now let's look at the chart for the concert for Bangladesh:

Before we address the transits, note that the axis of Virgo and Pisces is the most service oriented axis of the Zodiac, and this axis is highlighted in his chart via the Virgo MC and the angular Pisces Sun and Venus. Signs that are also very service oriented are Capricorn and Aquarius. Both of these are highlighted with the Scorpio Rising chart as well. Capricorn via the faster moving ruler of the chart, Mars being in Capricorn, and the ruler of the Virgo MC, being in Aquarius. In other words, all the Signs that are most connected to service to others, are highly to moderate highlighted. This of course, has direct relation to this concert. This was not something he did for himself, but in service to others.

But let's look at the transits.
http://drive.google.com/open?id=1XGmkjeNZmMkKDN5guVzBOqmvxc285w7Q

Note, that ruler of the Virgo MC and 8th House (collective monies) Mercury, is starting to conjunct the MC in it's own Sign, and is very closely opposed the ruler of his 9th House (a House with collective and philanthropic leanings) in the Sign of Pisces. Very fitting for such a compassion based event, and one trying to raise collective monies for charity. One of the first big concerts of it's kind actually.

Note that T. North Node in Aquarius is starting to conjoin his Mercury (ruler of the 10th and 8th) in the 3rd House. This event was part of not only his Life plan and destiny, but part of a larger destiny of communication about the need for celebrity/public (highlighted MC) to work towards the betterment of others (Virgo-Pisces, Aquarius). At the time, it was seemingly a small wave, that turned into a tsunami. And Harrison was just the catalyst to jumpstart it.

Note also that T. Sun is closely conjunct N. Pluto, modern ruler of his Asc in the 9th House. Emphasizing the other aspect to his N. Sun just talked about, and in that broad, collective communication and philanthropic way of the 9th House. It was probably, in a personal sense, a more transformative moment for himself (T. Sun conjunct N. Pluto ruler of the Asc). If I remember correctly, didn't he in a sense "come out of some hiding" around this time to do this concert?

Then note that the Moon, Jupiter, Neptune conjunction is within his 1st House and widely conjunct his Asc. It's not central to this event, hence the out of orb aspect in a transit sense. However, it's still important to the overall narrative. This was a time of Harrison being in his higher, more compassionate, empathic type energies.

Both Jupiter and Neptune, rulers of Pisces, are two of the most compassion, empathy, and more universal Love oriented Planets. When they are going through the 1st House together, that is a very powerful and highlighted time of the raising of one's vibratory levels. Basically, during this time, he was even more truly and authentically "Piscecan" like beyond what his Pisces Sun and Venus indicates. He was an "uber Pisces" during this cycle, which very much fits in with the general theme of the event.

Note also T. Pluto, ruler of the Asc, is starting to conjoin N. Neptune, ruler of the Pisces Sun and Pisces IC. Further emphasizing a transformation and the highlighting of his compassion and empathy (Neptune) based roots (Pisces IC), which are partly grounded in his Eastern based religion (Sun ruler of the 9th in Pisces conjunct an Angle, and Pluto ruler of the Asc in the 9th).

There is A LOT going on in both of these transit charts, and far more going on in this second chart than you outlined for your Bangladesh concert proposed transit chart.

So far, I've only had time to look at these two events. I need at least a 3rd before I feel comfortable with saying that this chart is fully accurate. When I have time, I will look up a 3rd.

The thing is, no matter how much evidence I produce, you being a Taurus Sun and Mercury, you will likely stay stuck in your extremely fixed views and the belief of your own rightness. If and when I produce other Event charts that align better with this chart which also fits his looks and personality better, you'll likely just choose to ignore it, which you have done in the past when I've poked a number of gaping holes in your theory.

posted March 10, 2020 05:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:

That's what happens anytime a luminary -- Sun or Moon -- is that close to the Asc. The Asc late in the previous sign is not as obvious because of the luminary's light so near it.

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Ooh @Hypatia! 💖 have you read that? I instantly thought of your posts about Sun/Asc conjunctions 😊
I do feel more Virgo than Leo and am taken as one mostly, but the Leo still comes off, I imagine it's because the placement is healthy for both signs, Virgo needs to step into the spotlight more and Leo needs to step out of it a bit 😊

About George Harrison... on a pure hunch I was to say Libra because I found him the sightly Beatles but then again, I do like Scorpio energy so that could be what I find so sightly 😝 Of course, the idea that both are there makes sense the best, that way no need to choose.

@Kannon I am so impossibly curious, have you ever worked on Freddie Mercury's chart?
I'd be very interested to read your work on it if it exists 😊

posted March 10, 2020 06:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
Before I address the subject at hand Kannon, I'm curious as to if you believe the Cayce readings about the potential difference in charts between the spiritual/energetic and the physical?

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Yes, of course. That is the starting place in Incarn astrology and I began that study 22 years ago. I also am privy to an abundance of unpublished information from John Willner (via protege Fred Bickum, Shaun Barry) who wrote the books on this (The Rising Sign Problem, Edgar Cayce's Astrological Revelations, etc).

I'm glad that you're aware of the Edgar Cayce readings on spiritual birth and its relationship to astrology. You've at least gotten started, but many statements you've made in these forums reveal clearly that you're not privy to the 'inside' info pursuant to it. I'm demonstrating some of it in practical form here.

quote:

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To be honest, the only chart that I find somewhat convincing and impressive as to your hypothesis, is the initial break up with Patti one.

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Good, that's a start.

quote:

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In the first chart you shared, the Concert for Bangladesh, literally all that is going on is a T. Sun to MC and T. Saturn sextile/parallel to MC.

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Not even close to true.

I laid a trap for you by not marking all the aspects that day even though at least one of them was in plain sight. I marked just the minimum transits needed to clearly frame the MC in declination and longitude together hoping to spur your curiosity. It also demonstrated the importance of declinations.

Other transits on 1 August 1971 to George's 26° Libra chart were:
- Neptune 18S35 = contra-parallel natal MC +/-18.7° [pts to MC declination range 17.7-19.7°]
- Jupiter 18S40 = contra-parallel natal MC [pts to declination 17.7-19.7°]
(17.7 - 19.7° north declination = natal MC 2-10° Leo, effectively eliminating the possibility of a later degree as suggested by ...
- Uranus 10LIB19 = sextile natal MC +/-6° Leo [pts to MC longitude range 6-14°]
- Moon near 6° Sagittarius = trine natal MC within a degree [pts to MC longitude range 1-11°]

So there were 6 planets including the luminaries making major aspects to the Midheaven of this chart with 4 transits in declination, 4 in longitude = 8 transits pointing to the degree area of the MC as 2-10° Leo = Asc 22-29° Libra.

I have charted it here as a synastry with the event's exact starting time in Manhattan, 2:30 PM.

quote:

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Sun transits are notoriously weak, and when and if they are showing up, it's usually as a support pattern to the big hitters like Nodes/Jupiter through Pluto.
Then there is the rule of 3 with major events that tends to run true and that I look for.

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OK, but to see them you have to actually look with open eyes and mind.

However, that's a generally good rule of thumb (not always true unless you count minor aspects and declinations).

Study the work of Robert Hand in Planets in Transit. I recommend it as a solid introduction to advanced transit theory. What I do by including declinations and the so-called minor aspects (quincunx, semi-sextile and declinations) is even more advanced.

quote:

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So I played around a bit, and I think I was both off and correct about his chart. I think he still had Scorpio Rising, but later, the leanness and height corresponds more with a very close Cap Mars sextile to his Asc point and it's somewhat wide opposition to Jupiter (showing a bit of increase of height along with the Mars sextile), and Jupiter quincux the Asc point.

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Flowing aspects (sextiles, trines) by planets to the Asc do not shape the physiology/face/form unless they are a two planet conjunction. (Only parallels, contra-parallels, conjunctions, oppositions, and squares by single planets do that.) But that's a principle you'd not have discovered unless you'd been doing in-depth rectification work for many years -- or had someone teach it to you.

However, let's take this chart with Asc at +/-20°. IF it is correct it is not the Mars aspect that relates to his physiology (lean, 5'10"), but Mercury at 18.5° south declination which would be in parallel to Asc +/-17.7° south.

quote:

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Alright, now let's look at the chart for the concert for Bangladesh:

But let's look at the transits.
http://drive.google.com/open?id=1XGmkjeNZmMkKDN5guVzBOqmvxc285w7Q

So far, I've only had time to look at these two events. I need at least a 3rd before I feel comfortable with saying that this chart is fully accurate. When I have time, I will look up a 3rd.

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That chart does show some strong transits for the nature of this event. Just a couple questions ...

Are you comfortable with the fact that this is George Harrison's biggest career event yet no planets at all point to the Midheaven's longitude at +/-11° Virgo?

Since this is clearly a Midheaven event where are the 3 transits you assert are necessary?

quote:

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The thing is, no matter how much evidence I produce, you being a Taurus Sun and Mercury, you will likely stay stuck in your extremely fixed views and the belief of your own rightness. If and when I produce other Event charts that align better with this chart which also fits his looks and personality better, you'll likely just choose to ignore it, which you have done in the past when I've poked a number of gaping holes in your theory.

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I will gladly read and examine carefully whatever you post here for as long as you want to continue this debate. I'll persist in the hope you'll recognize the teachable moment you've stepped into.

My views only seem "extremely fixed" to you because you are so far unable to persuade me. It's like a high school student trying to lecture a college professor. So far you've demonstrated the circling astrological dialogue in your own mind, but not given me any penetrating insight or added any functioning principle to what I've learned from years of in-depth study and application. You read my comments about Cayce's chart, even though you clearly are lacking the inside Incarn understanding of it, and you read my comments about Tesla's Asc (which may be off) and have decided I don't know what I'm doing. I make mistakes, yes, but I have the expertise to recognize and correct them. I've got a decade more living under my belt and at least that much more serious astrological study. Try not to resort to astrological stereotypes as an excuse for being unable to persuade me.

I am willing to look at anything you're willing to post here, but I will also enjoy outwitting you, laying traps for you that show you aren't seeing the whole picture and don't know near as much as you think you do.

One more thing I'll point out that you probably didn't notice -- a principle related to the Asc and how their display in an actual person can be altered from stereotypes or normative expectations ...

Look again at the transit chart for the Grammy Award 21 February 1990 -- at the Sun's declination 10° south, which is parallel natal Asc16° Libra = 10° south. That not only is the Sun in his natal chart making a major aspect to the Asc, increasing his general constitutional strength, will power, and confidence to perform, but also modifies his Libran personality by way of Pisces. This is the reason why people relying on sign-based impressions rightly see water when looking at George and his life: the carryover of water from both luminaries.

So there is no chance that George would ever fit the typical display of Libra rising. He has not only the very deep water of Moon in Scorpio affecting his Asc and obscuring it a bit with that conjunction, but Sun bringing in the qualities of watery Pisces by its parallel to the Asc. It helps explain why George was both a sensualist who acted it out indulgently (Asc in Libra conjunct Moon in Scorpio) and remained persistently determined to follow a spiritual path (Sun in Pisces parallel Asc).

You've already had to move your theoretical Asc degree for George by 10°. I'm curious to see where you move it next. If you really believe in your +/-20° Scorpio chart for George -- or any version of Scorpio rising for him -- then show me the synastry with his wives, children, etc, to back it up. I'll wait ...

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Recommended resources for study:

My article which is an intro to Astrology in the Edgar Cayce readings: http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/2017/11/09/astrology-in-the-edgar-cayce-readings/

Article on the incarnation process relevant to birth horoscopes:
http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/astrology/incarnation-process/

The Rising Sign Problem, Edgar Cayce's Astrological Revelations, The Perfect Horoscope, The Powerful Declinations -- all by John Willner.

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Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert birth chart rectification

posted March 10, 2020 06:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ULT12:
Totally, totally off-topic: Does the Moon have anything to do with metabolism and/or eating habits? This is an idea I picked up a very long time that bubbles up in the back of my mind often.

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Absolutely. Moon is the basic receptive principle and relates strongly to the stomach/GI tract and absorption on both physical and psychic levels. It's not so much metabolism in the sense of processing and burning up calories, but receiving, taking in, nurturing the body/feelings.

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Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert birth chart rectification

posted March 10, 2020 06:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Moonbeth:
@Kannon I am so impossibly curious, have you ever worked on Freddie Mercury's chart?
I'd be very interested to read your work on it if it exists 😊

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Yes, quite a lot actually. Thanks for asking. Maybe I'll finally get part 2 completed. Here is part 1, which does give pretty good clues to the chart you will see:
http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/2019/06/16/freddie-mercury-the-rectified-birth-chart/ This is one of those articles where I do a bit more 'thinking out loud' in the article than I usually do because I normally prefer to have every possibility worked out before even publishing a blog.

My main reason for holding back part 2 is wanting to do very thorough comparisons to the previously popular Leo rising chart(s) for him to make sure I'm not simply leading myself right into a false framing of his birth time. Easy to do. I've had interruptions and changing priorities the several months, but I hope to complete that project sooner rather than later.

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Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert birth chart rectification

posted March 11, 2020 01:30 AM            

Thank you for answering my question. I figured as much but didn't want to overly assume.

To be honest, this debate is taking up more time and energy than I would prefer. I started a new job about a month ago, and I now have an odd schedule which is overly encouraging my night owl tendencies to the point where I sleep in too late with just enough time for a few posts or so before I have to get ready for work.

Also, I recently wrote here on another thread, that I've been feeling like withdrawing my energies from this forum (I spend too much of my free time here) to work on a book or two. Interestingly, this coincides with true P. Asc in Scorpio conjuncting N. Scorp IC, and P. Leo MC conjoining N. Leo Asc. (Among some transits, such as Uranus starting to conjoin my MC, etc)

Harrison very well may have Libra Asc. Either way, I don't care that much. I suggest if people are sufficiently interested in the topic that they thoroughly investigate both your proposed chart and mine.

Yes, you are certainly more practiced at Transit/Progression based Rectification than myself. However, equating you to being a college professor and me being a grade school student is a little over much. I've been actively reading and studying astrology for 27 years now--more seriously for 24 (i.e. doing full Natals, synastry, transits, etc).

The thing about me Kannon is that I'm extremely intuitive (which my chart more than supports/confirms holistically). I've been honing these innate/born intuitive gifts in many different ways for just as long as I've been interested in astrology. Started meditating when I was 13, stopped eating beef and pork when I was 16 and endeavored to eat and live healthier in general then. Went fully vegetarian 5 years later as well as making ever more diet and health lifestyle changes towards the healthier.

Did some "semi formal" training in these areas as well, such as attending the Gateway Voyage Program at The Monroe Institute in Faber Va, then a few years or so later, taking Bruce Moen's "AfterLife Knowledge Course" down in FL (if you haven't read Bruces' books, or Bob Monroes' latter two books--highly recommend doing so).

But more importantly, I've had A LOT of verified psychic/intuitive experiences over many years. When this happens often enough, one begins to trust their intuition, which helps to open up a person even more. This developed intuition is what allowed me to double blow Sidney Kirkpatrick's mind when we met in person a few years ago.

First, as to giving him accurate past life information (other, paid, professional psychics plural had picked up on the same lifetime), and then bringing up the topic right after he had just started to think about it himself. He felt I was "reading his mind" and started referring to me to his A.R.E. friends and co-workers as the "mind reader". For me, it wasn't that unusual.

Kirkpatrick is one of the few people that I know personally, who I've told almost everything about the various guidance messages I've received in relation to my past, path, probable future, etc. He must not think me deluded as he still maintains active communication and a friendship.

A brief, recent example of this intuition and verification of same. In August, after a couple months of a stormy, Uranian connection with a Lass that I was in love with; well it didn't end well and her last message to me was do not ever contact me again OR else (the message was very Scorpio Moon closely conjunct Pluto). She sounded extremely serious.

But, I just intuitively knew that she would eventually contact me and that we would reconnect on more friendly terms. Almost 7 months later, recently she did (both apologizing, saying I was right about her issues and forecasting her healing/transformation, and asking for spiritual/psychic help).

Point of all this being, that I very much trust my intuition. Intuition/psychicness can accurately bypass linear, step by step logic and analysis. This doesn't mean that I can't be wrong. Course I can (and sometimes am), which is why I also like and use holistic logic, verification, etc, to keep a balance to the more "right hemisphere of the brain" side of things. Having a combo of very strong Capricorn, strong Mercury, and moderate to strong Virgo--evidence, verification, etc strongly appeals to this self.

posted March 11, 2020 11:23 AM            

As to Planetary aspects to the Asc, I've found the issue to be more relative and subtle. While it's true that conjunctions, oppositions, etc correlate to the strongest alterations of the basic archetypes of the Signs involved with the Rising, I've found that particularly close trines, sextiles, and quincuxes can modify these some as well. By particularly close, I mean 3* separation from exact and under. With conjunctions, oppositions, etc you can notice stronger alterations within 5 degrees separation from exact and under (somewhat analogical to transits).

A really good example of this is my own chart. I have Leo Rising. Many Leo Rising males have long torsos relative to their height. I found out via a Chiropractor and X-rays, besides having back issues, I'm genetically missing an entire lumbar vertebrae (and thus have an unusually short torso). The Chiropractor said that my body adjusted fairly well for this considering. However, I still have some issues.

In my chart, the ruler of my Rising, the Sun, is in Capricorn basically in the 6th and closely (slightly under 2 degrees) quincux my Asc degree. Interestingly, inconjuncts/quincuxes are known as stress and "adjustment" aspects that naturally carry a 6th-8th House connotation. There is an inharmony and mixing of very different energies that have a hard time reconciling with each other. Hence the stress, and the seeking for adjustment nature of same. Which combined with the 6th House placement of Sun, Capricorn (testing/challenge and contraction), and 6th House connotation of the quincux in general, correlates well with this since BOTH Leo AND it's ruler the Sun have correlation with the back/spine.

Nothing else in my chart correlates with this, not parallels, nor any other kind of aspect. Course, I don't base it off one case, but I've seen other examples of other major aspects (including quincux, which I consider in between a major and medium aspect) factor in when they are particularly close. Again, it's not as strong or noticeable as conjunctions etc even if those a bit farther away.

Astrology is the science, and more so art of subtle relativity--not "black and whites".

posted March 11, 2020 03:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Yes, quite a lot actually. Thanks for asking. Maybe I'll finally get part 2 completed. Here is part 1, which does give pretty good clues to the chart you will see:
http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/2019/06/16/freddie-mercury-the-rectified-birth-chart/ This is one of those articles where I do a bit more 'thinking out loud' in the article than I usually do because I normally prefer to have every possibility worked out before even publishing a blog.

My main reason for holding back part 2 is wanting to do very thorough comparisons to the previously popular Leo rising chart(s) for him to make sure I'm not simply leading myself right into a false framing of his birth time. Easy to do. I've had interruptions and changing priorities the several months, but I hope to complete that project sooner rather than later.

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Please, I was obsessed with Mercury as a child, I believed we were related (children’s minds are weird 😂 and finding out he was a Virgo when I was about 6-ish was the first time I felt my sun was truly awesome and had just as much potential for greatness as any other (self-criticism hit me early 😝 )

Naturally, specialising in rectification, yours is a take I’d enjoy on this, I’m actually surprised I haven’t thought of asking sooner 😊.
I actually love the “thinking-out-loud” style of that post, I think it makes the intricacies of deep astrological query even more accessible that you already usually make them.
I had never read of any rising sign assigned to him, only rectified birth times, but you mentioning Leo as a consensus makes my 7 year old self tingle 🥰
As a Virgo sun, with Leo rising and Capricorn moon, I still do relate a lot to the peculiar dichotomy he expressed between his sense of privacy and stage persona. I also feel at home with his honesty towards some very dark aspects of his personality (I have just realised we also share a loose-ish Saturn Pluto conjunction), as well as manners of speaking and “front flippant ways” in dialogue. But I don’t relate at all to the partying, sexual promiscuity (I do relate though to his most important partnerships being with Pisces and Capricorn) and excessive drug use, although that I think could be cultural, sometimes I do wonder whether my attitude towards those could have been entirely different had I lived at a different time, and in different circumstances… but yep, I do agree a blend of Virgo/Sag and Capricorn makes more sense than a strict earth trio for sun/moon/asc.
And it would be criminal to not expect his Uranian wardrobe to show up somewhere in the chart even if I wouldn’t know what aspects would reflect that best. The Uranus contra parallel Pluto point you make is difficult to resist and Libra rising would indeed not be shocking as he already has a bunch of the sign.

Then, I have random questions that may either help or totally bore you:
Couldn’t the move from Zanzibar be more seen in global transits, considering a lot of people fled persecution back then? It sounds a bit different than an individual move from a family.
Also, what about Mercury? Freddie Mercury’s voice was so unique and special, anything specific to expect around Mercury about that, that could also help the rectification other than it being Virgo? Or, in other words, do you have an opinion on the Scholfield rectification mentioned on the astro data bank page?

And also, I do have one very Virgo remark, when you mention Jer’s quote about his birth time during office hours, why do you assign a rough 8 to 5 basis? 50’s Zanzibar being more rural than modern day Zanzibar I wouldn’t be surprised if business hours referred here to a different pattern than our common 8-5 (and 9-6 in lots of Europeanly colonised African countries), more closely linked to the sun or interrupted with a large dead slot. It sounds a bit daft but that kind of data is easier to find than a birth time that wasn’t written on the birth certificate (how frustrating is that? It literally reads “date and time of birth” Lol) and if we can figure out what Bomi did for a living and what were his “office hours” maybe it could help precise the window of Freddie’s birth? May only be a couple of hours but that can mean the world to a birth chart…

Final thing, just for fun, I’ve always believed he actually knew his birth time to the minute and kept it gloriously private. A part of me wishes that’s true for some reason…

Looking forward to reading the end of your labour on this one, event though I absolutely understand and support your reason for withholding 😊

posted March 16, 2020 07:42 PM            

I know you've had to put in some long hours at work lately. Don't let this topic here or any other cut into your much needed rest.

I too assumed George Harrison was probably Scorpio rising when I first addressed the question several years ago. After all, look at all those pictures where he's got a rather blank or somber, internal expression, not so much of the 'make nice' smile typical of the Libran type.

But I did the work and found the proposition was unsupported by the transits and progressions of his life events. It then led me to an Asc in Libra.

I respect that you've been studying astrology quite a while, apparently longer than I have. (I began in 1996.) However, my college professor analogy as it relates to rectification is still appropriate. I've dedicated a great portion of my time and energy over the last decade to it and have nearly mastered it. I've been asked to author a manual to rectification, but I'm more interested in doing the work for my clients and then getting my head free of it.

Rectifications for particular persons/charts are not accomplished by resumé or the dropping of names. It requires careful research and work sensitive to the biography of the person in question, and wielding the necessary astrological literacy specific to the dynamics of in mundi rotation when considering progressions.

A lot of us are very intuitive. That does not replace proper astrology work allowed by modern astronomical data and computers when it comes to rectification. Hunches are fine, but they need to be tested. And the question of this thread is a rectification question at its core. Anyone can have a hunch or intuition, but are you willing to test it objectively using the astrological language? Any assertion about the Ascendant of a particular person's chart (for which there is sufficient biography) can be tested astrologically.

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Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert birth chart rectification

posted March 16, 2020 07:48 PM            

I'm doing more of that 'thinking out loud' approach to rectification with the chart of Helena Blavatsky as posted and linked here on LL.

If you have questions for me about Freddie Mercury's chart, please post those as comments on the blog article at my site or start a new thread for it here on LL. I want this thread to keep to its own topic.

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Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert birth chart rectification

posted June 12, 2020 05:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
He has this intense heavy serious look on his eyes that I feel is plutonic so am leaning towards scorpio rising too right now. Seriousness can be an 8H/Pluto/scorpio thing bc such person allows himself to see the darkness in the world and not shelter themselves from it and it can take a toll a little bit on your soul which reflects on your eyes. So scorpio rising or pluto aspecting his AC or 8H stellium aspecting his AC.

Need to see his chart and think about it more...

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Yes! He looks very Scorpio to me but hey, he also has a Scorpio Moon, so ...

posted June 12, 2020 05:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Graham:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=george+harrison+face+image&FORM=HDRSC2

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Harrison,_George

To me, he looks like Scorpio Rising.

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I think the same. I know a lot of people with Libra rising and they have other features and expressions on their faces but who knows ...

posted June 12, 2020 05:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ULT12:
Many people say Rasputin is Scorpio ASC. Even Starkman rectified to a Scorpio ASC.

Rasputin vs Harrison:
Rasputin - http://tinyurl.com/ueu7few
Harrison - http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/400036760693-0-1/s-l1000.jpg

Furthermore - albeit Harrison had different styles - the images I looked up of Harrison just now (using duckduckgo.com) showed several of him having an unkempt/crazy beard + longish hair(see Rasputin) -- which is a style common amongst Scorpio/Pluto/H8-types.

Only odd thing is with Moon so close to ASC, you'd expect a fleshier and/or rounded face - but perhaps Harrison's ASC Ruler(1/2 - Mars) being in Cap gives the gauntness/boniness/skinniness and trumps the Moon/ASC (Starkman says Rasputin has Moon-opp-ASC, and he has a rounded/fleshy face).

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Oh, I really like this! I appreciate you looking for pictures. The beard thing seems very Scorpio, doesn't it? Because Libra is more about thinking about how everything about himself looks.

It's true, I'm surprised that he has Moon / Asc.

posted June 12, 2020 05:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
^ Don't compare poor Rasputin to Harrison, or is it the other way around..

But yeah the similarities are definitely strikinggg!!!...

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posted June 12, 2020 05:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
He looks nothing like a Libra rising

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I think the same! He looks very... watery, haha.

posted June 12, 2020 05:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
In the version were he has scorpio rising, his moon is in scorpio at aries point conjuncting his AC which I feel gives him more round features.

We all see Scorpio

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We all see Scorpio, yes, that's true, haha. Oh, how I wish I could know...

posted June 12, 2020 05:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
Scorpio Rising from 7 to 10 degrees.

Aqua Mercury closely square the Asc degree indicating taller stature, and which along with the Cap Mars, indicating a leaner frame/faster metabolism than Scorpio tends to in an archetypal sense (Scorpio being one of the more thick, strong/muscular, average to slightly below height, and/or stout Rising Signs). Sun trine Asc also indicating greater height. But the Mercury square is closer.

Close Moon Asc conjunction doesn't fit whatsoever. That would be a short, tending towards the heavy (slow metabolism) type of body correlation. Both Moon and Scorpio tend towards a slower metabolism. It's maybe rather widely conjunct the Asc, indicating a slight paling, as well as preoccupation with women, but it's clear that the Aqua Mercury square is far stronger.

Genetics/hereditary causes the looks, the astrology only aligns and correlates with and reflects it symbolically.

That fact that his long time, 2nd wife is a Taurus Sun also argues for a Scorpio Asc. His intense focus on sex (was pretty much a sex addict for a chunk of his life) also argues for same.

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Wow, I love this! Very interesting.

Do you think his interest in gardening may come from his Moon/ Asc? I mean, he loved taking care of his plants and being at home, instead of being a super sociable person who always went out dancing, for example.

posted June 12, 2020 06:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
As Cayce's guidance pointed out time and time again, exact physical birth time doesn't matter diddly.

What does matter is time of full energetic/Soul connection to the body. This does sometimes coincide with the physical/1st breath time, but sometimes doesn't. Sometimes there are many hours difference.

Having a good understanding of the physical looks level of astrology, along with a very holistic synthesis capacity, and/or more traditional forms of rectification can help a person to figure out the true chart.
As to the holistic synthesis, for starters, there are always powerful synastry patterns with closest people when the Rising Sign is correct. Same and opposite Signs with different important and/or personal symbols are a constant pattern that I see. Particularly so with Sun, Rising, Moon, Venus, Mars, and Chart ruler being same or opposite these same, but different symbols is very, very common (Sun to Rising, Moon, Venus, Mars, chart ruler. Rising to Sun, Moon, Venus, Mars, chart ruler. Etc)

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posted June 12, 2020 06:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by teasel:
He has eyes like mine, and I’m apparently a Scorpio rising. Mum was surprised when I told her, assuming that I’d be a libra rising (because of my personality).

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Thanks for your reply!