posted December 07, 2021 01:49 PM            

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Originally posted by KAHRAMANBENDEN:
Hi I just wanted to discuss whether 12th house placements cause mental health issues? Like depression? Anxiety?

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Yes, absolutely. I am sure there are some exceptions, but it's very hard for me to believe that someone with an active 12th house doesn't have at the very least some mild forms of depression or anxiety. Even if it isn't triggered until later in life.

In my case I have my Moon in the 12th house, Gemini. My Moon is conjunct retrograde Chiron (not sure how significant the retrograde is here) but the rest of my chart, including the other major asteroids & Lilith are all direct. My Moon has 0 easy aspects going on. It forms a square with Jupiter & Midheaven in pisces & is opposite my sun, uranus & saturn in Sagittarius.

I was diagnosed at 6 with ADD. Thankfully my mom didn't stick me on Ritalin like the Dr. Wanted. I didn't start on adderall until I was about 20yo. In my teens I was diagnosed with depression & anxiety.

I self diagnosed myself with bipolar disorder in my early 20s after my ex and friends started telling me I seemed like I was. The friends were from childhood so their opinion carried some weight. I had started dating my ex when I was 18 & I am convinced that relationship was what triggered it. I started drinking and doing drugs at 16 and ended up in rehab in 2011 when I was 24 where I was diagnosed with schizophrenia. I didn't like that word at all and completely rejected that diagnosis until about 2014. I was watching some documentary about 2 siblings with schizophrenia and it really touched home. I started taking antipsychotics in rehab & since those medications are also used to treat bipolar disorder so I continued to take them and just kept my own self diagnosed bipolar disorder. I started on my spiritual path in 2012 at the same time I found astrology. I stopped taking my meds around the same time. Chalking everything up until that moment as...I honestly don't know. I had convinced myself that mental disorders were something made up by pharmaceutical companies as a means of control & money. It wasn't until I saw that documentary in 2014 that I was able to admit maybe I was wrong and alot of that was actually a result of my mental illnesses. There was no doubt a spiritual aspect to everything. But I think since my spiritual awakening came on quickly and aggressively, that had actually aggravated my mental state and contributed to the symptoms in some way. I didn't work for about 2 years, until the very end on 2014 when I was mentally able to even hold a part time. I had an episode of psychosis the summer of 2013 & basically my entire lifestyle was not that of a mentally stable person. Even then it took awhile for me to actually see that.

Soon after I had watched that documentary I turned to my exhusband & my family for help, telling them I think I needed help. They didn't disagree that I did but at the same time they seemed to have no idea what mental illness actually was & refused to help me financially with this, which is really all I needed at the time. I was capable of picking up a phone and making an appointment. They told me to just get a job and they thought I was being ridiculous or lazy or that I was faking it or something..I honestly don't know. Like..OK but first I need to get some help because my mental state is what is preventing me from working...how do you not get that. Seriouslt.. and I'M the one with the mental problems. My ex could have very easily put me on his health care plan but refused to unless I had a way to cover my cost. It was nothing short of excruciating. I haven't seen or talked to my ex in roughly 4 years and we had separated over 5 years ago & still to this day every once in awhile I will feel a slight bit of resentment towards him.

Somehow I managed to pull myself through it though. I had quit the part-time job after 6mos but started working again full-time christmas/new years 2015. I was hell bent on getting out of that relationship and finding some form of sanity. After about 4 months there I abruptly left due to an episode. I have always had very fleeting momentary thoughts of suicide but I never actually really considered it until that time. My boss at that job tried to talk me out of leaving but I wouldn't respond. I still had a key with me though so he was telling me he needed that back. Saying that I had to understand the position I was putting him in. He was very reasonable. I told him I would when I could. Not really caring, at the time his piddly ass problem seemed so insignificant to me by comparison. I had every intention of returning the key, but I would get to it when I got to it. I finally made plans to meet up with him to return the key but accidently fell asleep. I wake up to a bunch or missed calls and messages him saying he was calling the police. I called him back and he yelled at me to just return it through the mail slot and hung up on me. I felt bad after that. He had been nice to me and I honestly didn't mean to upset him. I dropped the key in the mail slot late in the evening. I texted him the next day apologizing. I told him I had schizophrenia and I was very sick that week. He told me to please just come back and everything was fine. I met up with him for lunch that weekend. He was very understanding & said he had read a little bit about the disorder the night before since he wasn't familiar with that one in particular, but he didn't have that ignorance towards mental illness like I was accustomed too. I decided to go back the next week. It was more than anyone had done for me before and just that alone helped me more than I can say.

The summer of 2016 I had to go to the hospital for another episode of psychosis but this time they sent me to the crazy house for about 3 weeks or so. I had told the Dr there that I had been diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2011 but he decided I wasn't and that I had bipolar 1 disorder with psychosis.

It was also in 2012 that I had another consciousness show up that was named Veronica. I took on both identities but it wasn't until 2019/2020 that I stumbled across an article about dissociative identity disorder. I identified with it right away but wasn't ready to take on any new disorders so I pretty much just ignored it. My 2 selves are very similar, yet opposite so its easy for me to pass off memory lapses to something else. For months after that I kept stumbling across this disorder so I kind of started to pay more attention to who I seemed to be at any given time. In recent years after the 2016 episode I remember I would have certain outfits and shoes that I would associate with my yang energy (nicole) and my yin energy (veronica) and I would know which one I was based on whatever outfit I ended up in that day. The funny thing was I would never be thinking of this while I was getting dressed, it was always afterwards that I would realize who I was.

Once the pandemic hit my psychiatrist had decided to retire early and I was handed over to a new psychiatrist. Our first appointment I was discussing with her my bipolar disorder with her when she told me afterwards that she didn't think what I had was bipolar disorder but that I had a dissociative disorder. I honestly had no thought of bringing that up with her so it felt kinda surreal at the time for some reason. Like I had confirmation of what I had started to realize in recent months & I wouldn't have to wonder about it anymore I guess. However she didnt think my request to go back on antipsychotics was necessary since she thought I was misdiagnosed. I had been on antipsych meds since the 2016 episode but sometime late 2019 the meds were giving me side effects. That class on meds are known to cause a disorder which causes involuntary muscle spasms that may become permanent. One day my thumb just suddenly started moving, twitching like I was moving it up and down over and over again. It wasn't subtle at all and was kind of disruptive. This scared me and I stopped it immediately. Later the same day my other thumb started up too but less aggressively. It did this for about 2 days before it thankfully stopped. I was feeling like I needed to go back on something though and wanted to talk to her about a different one. However at her suggestion I didn't.

A month later I was back in the hospital for 3 days after another episode. They wanted to send me to the mental hospital again but thankfully they were full. They had me waiting for a bed but thankfully I was able to get out of it. They gave me back my bipolar identity and put me on another brand of antipsychotics which I am still taking & so far so good.

TBH, if I hadn't found astrology when I did I am almost certain I would have killed myself at some point. Knowing where the source of my mental illness is astrologically has helped me probably more than anything. It would at least get me through some of the most difficult times because I was able to see what was aggravating my Moon and work my way through it. It's the first place I go now when I feel something very strongly. It doesn't necessarily make the feelings go away but I am able to understand what is going on and can see a light at the end of the tunnel.

So yes, I very much believe almost to complete certainty the 12th house contributes to mental illness. Ik it's the very 1st place I look to in someone's chart for evidence of that.

For instance, my sister, same upbringing & DNA as me, has a vacant 12th house and has never experienced anything close to what I have. Never been diagnosed with anything or been on medications. She does have some anxiety issues for sure..but honestly who these days doesn't?

posted December 07, 2021 02:58 PM            

Your moon in 12th conjunct Chiron in Gemini and square Jupiter does give some astrological indications.

-*- Moon in Gemini could indicate the two selves you dealt with as Gemini represents the twins.

-*- Chiron conjunction to moon indicates a deep wound that tugs at the soul.

-*- Moon square to Jupiter can indicate loss of illusion, loss of dreams, or faulty illusions or faulty dreams, and can also indicate bipolar disorder as mood and emotions can go to extremes.

Those possibilities are even stronger because your moon is in the 12th house. And if you are Cancer rising, moon is your chart ruler...

posted December 07, 2021 07:24 PM            

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posted December 07, 2021 09:26 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Yes, to the question. The 12th house tends to suppression. When things are suppressed, they do come out in other ways like depression. However, if the planet is within 10 degrees of the ASC, I count it as first house.

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What do you do if the 12th house is very tiny, would you then also count the last ten degrees as first house or less ?

[Edit to add : I added his placements and size of the 12th house in a new post.]

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I know somebody with depressions that he hides from others, you would never guess, because he's a typical mostly happy seeming Sag AC with Moon in the 12th, conjunct both liliths and loose conjunct south node, all in Sag 12th.
Moon exactly square Sun in Virgo 8th,
Moon trine Pluto Leo 8th,
Moon sextile Neptune Libra 9th,
his Sun-Moon-square builds a small triangle with 2 exact semi squares to a Jupiter-Venus-conjunction in Libra 10th, near MC and Star Spica.
He is an artist, very spiritual, he always seems to miss something in the earthly realm.
I have the feeling it's that beautiful Jupiter-Venus-paradise in Libra.
I feel a constant kind of tension (semi squares) in him to find that.

posted December 08, 2021 02:16 AM            

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Originally posted by mirage29:
Saturn in your 3rd House adds to that

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posted December 08, 2021 02:25 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Yes, to the question. The 12th house tends to suppression. When things are suppressed, they do come out in other ways like depression. However, if the planet is within 10 degrees of the ASC, I count it as first house.

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posted December 08, 2021 02:29 AM            

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Originally posted by scorpiogirl:
I think so. The 12th house kinda makes you oblivious to the energy of any planet that falls there, so there can be a lot of denial or a sense of detachment. You can either subconsciously deny the planet or let it completely take over your life, without your control. All this can cause depression. I have Saturn, Uranus and Neptune in the 12th so I'm very well acquainted with this house.

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So you mean to say that it happens only because of suppression? OR is it because people who are born with these placements are perhaps intrinsically depressed?

posted December 08, 2021 02:31 AM            

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Originally posted by saronna:
I have 12th house pisces & Chiron & it can cause depression & anxiety. & searching for spiritual answers

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Thanks for replying...I hope it's not an extreme case...I hope you're keeping well.

posted December 08, 2021 03:30 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by KAHRAMANBENDEN:
Hi I just wanted to discuss whether 12th house placements cause mental health issues? Like depression? Anxiety?

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Mental health and mental health institutions, seclusion (especially involuntary) are often associated with the 12th, but mental health issues are not the purpose of the 12th house.

To understand 12th house placements, look at the portion of the sky it covers: the area just above the horizon in the east where the sun rises.

That is where planets or luminaries go from rising to risen and in full view. So it is the movement of planetary energies from the subjective, personal, internal domain of the 1st house to the objective, collective, external domain of the 12th. Energies go from being contained according to one's own definitions to being 'out in the open', bringing feelings of vulnerability or uncertainty as to where self ends and the rest begins — a new and heightened sensitivity in the process of soul development.

If we say that 12th house placements 'cause' mental health issues, then because you cannot change your birth chart it would appear that it is your fate (or karma) to simply be mentally ill or struggle with such things lifelong. Yet that is not the case. Everything in the birth chart is a snapshot of process, a slow process of soul development over lifetimes and you knew just what you were doing when you stepped into the stream again this lifetime.

So astrological placements don't 'cause' any such thing. It is our response to the new conditions represented in the birth chart (relative to geo-location) or our continuation of old patterns (as seen especially in the aspects) that are the cause.

If such a placement were the 'cause' of mental health issues, then everyone with that placement would have mental health issues. That just isn't the case.

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posted December 08, 2021 05:05 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Mental health and mental health institutions, seclusion (especially involuntary) are often associated with the 12th, but mental health issues are not the purpose of the 12th house.

To understand 12th house placements, look at the portion of the sky it covers: the area just above the horizon in the east where the sun rises.

That is where planets or luminaries go from rising to risen and in full view. So it is the movement of planetary energies from the subjective, personal, internal domain of the 1st house to the objective, collective, external domain of the 12th. Energies go from being contained according to one's own definitions to being 'out in the open', bringing feelings of vulnerability or uncertainty as to where self ends and the rest begins — a new and heightened sensitivity in the process of soul development.

If we say that 12th house placements 'cause' mental health issues, then because you cannot change your birth chart it would appear that it is your fate (or karma) to simply be mentally ill or struggle with such things lifelong. Yet that is not the case. [b]Everything in the birth chart is a snapshot of process, a slow process of soul development over lifetimes and you knew just what you were doing when you stepped into the stream again this lifetime.

So astrological placements don't 'cause' any such thing. It is our response to the new conditions represented in the birth chart (relative to geo-location) or our continuation of old patterns (as seen especially in the aspects) that are the cause.

If such a placement were the 'cause' of mental health issues, then everyone with that placement would have mental health issues. That just isn't the case.

[/B]

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posted December 08, 2021 07:25 AM            

My friend's 12th house is only 17 degrees wide (I've seen even slightly smaller ones very occasionally, but I'm not that experienced).
His Moon is at the 5th degree of the house (not of the sign), so clearly 12th house,
interpolated Lilith is at the 7th degree of the house, so 10 degrees away from the AC,
asteroid Lilith is 9 degrees away from AC,
SN (both mean node and true node) about 6 degrees from AC.

I know some of his past lives, he seems to have had both houses - first and 12th there, the first feels and looks more obvious in what I see in his past, but 12th was still also present and relevant.

Oh, maybe that even adds to the 'hidden' 12th house in his case, his SN is strong in his first house and 'overshines' it's own 12th house part.
He was very powerful in previous incarnations and at the same time very intuitive. His job was to be both.

Now I feel/see that his SN doesn't 'cause' his depression, his Moon in 12th does,
or better the patterns in him, expressed by the placement.

Not sure about the two Liliths there...
He did have very special kinds of girlfriends sometimes (?)
Maybe supresses his inner wild side, could be...

About aspects of the Black Moon Lilith to planets/points :

posted December 08, 2021 07:49 AM            

Maybe interesting also for some others with similar past lives...

posted December 08, 2021 05:49 PM            

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posted December 08, 2021 06:45 PM            

[/QUOTE]

posted December 09, 2021 05:40 AM            

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Originally posted by saronna:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KAHRAMANBENDEN:
[b] Thanks for replying...I hope it's not an extreme case...I hope you're keeping well.

[/QUOTE
Thanks. I hope you are keeping well too. I was talking to my pyschologist after I came out of hospital about four years ago. We were talking about mental illness & my pyschologist said mental illness is when they dont know what is real. I was thinking about this & only love is real[/B]

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Hi I am doing well too. Good to know you're good too. You're right only love is real. Hey I wanted to ask how to get into the soulmate project too? I am a newbie in astrology..so don't know too much. Do I need to know/read some things?

posted December 09, 2021 06:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by KAHRAMANBENDEN:
Hi I am doing well too. Good to know you're good too. You're right only love is real. Hey I wanted to ask how to get into the soulmate project too? I am a newbie in astrology..so don't know too much. Do I need to know/read some things?

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