posted January 01, 2023 07:37 AM            

It is very true, I have plenty to worry about, but is this aspect part of it?

My argument is that, if I don't find solutions, things wont be solved.

I guess that's another word for "worry".

posted January 01, 2023 10:58 AM            

I am definitely a worrier and overthinker. I was diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder at the ripe old age of 8, and I have been on anxiety medication since I was around 12 years old. I also have OCD, which was diagnosed in my early teens. Panic attacks were a huge problem for me at certain points, and would cause me to throw up.

I think for me there's a double-whammy air and water influence, but also some Capricorn-specific stuff going on. Saturn rules the 10th and that's where my Mercury sits. Pisces rules the 12th and that's the sign my Mercury's in but the house my Saturn's in. And Saturn is in Gemini, which is ruled by Mercury.

posted January 01, 2023 05:04 PM            

Mercury is too often not discussed!

You both say "overthinking". Personally I am not sure overthinking and worrying are the same thing? Although maybe these days the term overthinking is synonymous with worrying?

People have always said that I overthink things. I've responded that they don't think enough. Which is true, right?

An aside - I've put it down though to people wishing to exploit me in some way, but not being able cross the wall of worries I've had set in place. Saying that I overthink was their way of trying to break me down. I'm talking about when I was a young girl, homeless, and looking for safety in a world of predators.

Q. Is there more to tell in both of your situations though? Eg, aspects to outer planets planets - Mercury to an outer planet, maybe?

edenhardwicke, It's interesting what you're saying about the houses. Anything in the 12H is neurosis-inducing, and Saturn there maybe something like: unconscious and hidden worrying, for sure.

I have wondered too about houses, in some respect similar to you: my moon squaring the house that it rules, both traditionally and in my own chart. It's hard to find discussion on these more complex astrological elements, unfortunately. But I think that they matter.

teasel, where does the emotion come in? Do you have more aspects going on here, maybe?

About me for comparison -
I can relate to the: winnow it down to one paragraph. A large chunk of my life has been spent somewhat fetishising concise and accurate language, structured dialogue, and written communication. A fascination with drilling down to the essential points succinctly, and concisely. And then after that, I've been left wondering what on earth are all the other words in language for?

Then, later again, developing a deep appreciation for the difference between creative and expressive language and language that is structured for, say, science or business, or a some kind of manual. And noting that, concise language while useful, can present as terse, and those other words can adjust the tone of communication.

I have found all of this very interesting and magical over the decades! I would liked to have studied linguistics. Being an editor may have been a fulfilling career also. Providing there are other supports in life though, otherwise it might've just added to the bonkers.

Also, I'd write fluidly and emotionally (Moon to my Mercury) in my diary when very young. Only to come back later and be disgusted with the lack of mature and "proper" structure in my writing. Looking back, that was very harsh of myself. I still do it these days, but with love and a sense of "fun". So.. perhaps I've softened this aspect a bit - which is always important with harsh aspects.

When you both mentioned nervous system I had a bingo moment - YES. Also yes, I have been chronically ill, and now, finally, I have put my worry to work by studying, again. It's late in my life though, and had I been able to access this level of study earlier, I think I would have survived better. As I would have had 1) an outlet for my nervous energy, and 2) my worries would have been eased knowing I was achieving something that would support my survival.

But, I have many other positive aspects to my Mercury and 1 other positive outlet to my Saturn (to Ascendent).

What positive outlets does your challenging aspects have? It's a good question to ask for any challenging aspect, and I always look for them in synastry. It sure applies to natals too: do you have easy outlets to your challenging ones, and what are they?

posted January 02, 2023 03:13 PM            

Well, I tend to think that I'm thinking the right amount (which is a lot lol) and others tell me to pipe down and do something constructive/physical as an outlet. I can get too caught up in my head, trying to dig deeper underneath things and predict scenarios, etc. I really, really dislike uncertainty. Not knowing what to expect freaks me out. So I'm always kind of trying to predict the future, feeling caught in the wave that is time.

When you mentioned wanting to study linguistics, I went "Ohhhh....." LOL because up until recently my minor in college was linguistics, and I was a Teaching Assistant for a linguistics class this past semester. My major is Anthropology, and I attribute that to Jupiter in my 1st house and Pallas, Neptune, and Uranus in my 9th in Aquarius. I am semi-fluent in Mandarin Chinese and I am learning Scottish Gaelic right now. I want to become highly fluent in both within the next decade, and then maybe add more languages into the mix. I have always been fascinated by language, and when I was in 4th grade I invented my own alphabet which I still have memorized, and in middle school I expanded on the system to try and create a language of my own.

The other day I was talking to my mom and she said, "The most overarching way to describe you is as a translator. You're a translator." And what she means by that is, I translate between people, but not just when they are actually speaking two different languages. I switched my minor to Special Education, because I'm autistic and I want to change the field. I think that the current paradigm and way people think about autistic kids is totally backwards. I often feel like an autistic-to-neurotypical translator in that way. So there's that, but I also have a talent for perceiving what other people are getting at/trying to say, and then simplifying the language or rephrasing it so that the other person listening actually hears and understands them. So I'm often a mediator in conversations, explaining the points of both people to each other.

I've often been told that I have a talent for writing, and I think that's true. I used to do more creative writing when I was in middle school, but nowadays it's mostly me journaling and occasionally writing poetry or short personal prose. The key to the way I write is that I keep things simple, but not in a way that I lose the content of what I'm trying to say. I will use "big words" sometimes but never too many in a row, because I find it unnecessary. And I get really annoyed by the overly academic, pretentious writing that I often have to read for school. I care about substance, not form. And elaborate form is often just a way to cover up a lack of substance.

For example, as you can tell, I often start sentences with "And" or "But", which some people say is incorrect, but I think that's ridiculous. People should be able to write the way they speak and the way they think. I write the way I speak and think, and I think that's the only reason my writing is effective. If I always worried about grammar rules and whether I should or shouldn't do this or that, I would never get anything done.

Anyway, back to astrology. Yes, my 12th house is a bit challenging because I have Saturn and Mars there. Mars is in Taurus, Saturn is in Gemini. But I think the good news is that I'm a Pisces Sun and Mercury, so I "get" the 12th house stuff pretty well. Neptune is also in a prominent place, in my 9th, so I think I have a pretty Piscean worldview and mind in general. Plus Jupiter, the traditional ruler of Pisces, is in my 1st house. I think it just makes me really freaking sensitive, and very susceptible to spongeing things up and intuiting things about people. But of course, that can provoke anxiety, especially if I'm sensing something that another person won't confirm or communicate about.

Another thing that's funny about me, is that I'm generally pretty quiet and I have a hard time immediately verbally communicating about things. I also have severe anxiety disorders. But then Mercury in the 10th house swoops in, and surprise, I'm actually very good at public speaking! I enjoy it, and it often doesn't make me anxious at all. The only time I get anxious is when there's people I already have social tension with who are in the audience. I have actually been a guest lecturer in college classes, talking about autism, several times in the past few years. I think that brings together my Mercury-Saturn stuff pretty nicely.

And that last bit about chronic illness- I have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and POTS, which is a form of dysautonomia (autonomic nervous system weirdness). I think it all goes together with me being autistic and anxious. My nervous system is just constantly getting fried by things. But at this point in my life, with all the diagnoses and a good understanding of how I operate, I manage just fine and can recognize when something is happening due to a nervous system mishap.

Finally, about all the aspects in my chart.

My Mercury is...
- semisquare Moon (1 deg. orb)
- sextile Mars (3 deg. orb)
- trine Jupiter (1 deg. orb)
- square Saturn (1 deg. orb) (as you know)
- semisextile Neptune (2 deg. orb)
- sextile Chiron (1 deg. orb)
- trine Part of Fortune (3 deg. orb)
- trine Vertex (0 deg. orb)
- conjunct Ceres (1 deg. orb)
- square Vesta (1 deg. orb)
- semisextile Eros (0 deg. orb)
- square Ascendant/Descendant axis (6 deg. orb)

And my Saturn, meanwhile, is...
- quintile Sun (1 deg. orb)
- semisquare Moon (0 deg. orb)
- square Mercury (1 deg. orb) (as mentioned)
- sextile Venus (1 deg. orb)
- semisextile Mars (1 deg. orb)
- trine Neptune (0 deg. orb)
- opposite Pluto (8 deg. orb)
- quincunx Chiron (0 deg. orb)
- square Ceres (0 deg. orb)
- trine Pallas (3 deg. orb)
- conjunct Vesta (0 deg. orb)
- trine Eros (1 deg. orb)
- conjunct Ascendant (4 deg. orb)

So yeah, that's me! I think the houses and signs affect everything a lot, and for me the biggest energy influence is that of Pisces, but Capricorn energy shows up with Saturn and with the 10th house.

posted January 02, 2023 05:29 PM            

The natal aspect is Saturn working hard to press the Mercury energy into greater concentration, greater effort, more practical understanding, more study. That pressure can become too much if the cognitive mind is not given a break (meditation, fantasy, relaxation). The nervous system then suffers unnecessarily. It is a learning aspect, but often what is missed is communication, or even what we might call 'thinking out loud.' This can relieve the pressure and bring perspective. But people with this aspect often have trouble listening to others well and absorbing the emotional content in a way that can be beneficial to all involved. Control issues in communication.

The Transit
I've been through the transit of Saturn square my natal Mercury off/on for many months. The aspect just passed culmination in the last few days and is still very close to exact. I've had to change my patterns of thinking to be more constructive, write to-do lists, and get more planning and preparation done. My overall outlook is still optimistic (with help from some simultaneous Jupiter transits). I'm just having to take some things more seriously and get onto them more proactively than I was.
#1 have distinct goals.
#2 keep a To-do list of steps towards those goals and keep doing them.

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Astrological gemstone readings for your energetic balance, healing, and soul development. http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/services/

posted January 02, 2023 05:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:

The natal aspect is Saturn working hard to press the Mercury energy into greater concentration, greater effort, more practical understanding, more study. That pressure can become too much if the cognitive mind is not given a break (meditation, fantasy, relaxation). The nervous system then suffers unnecessarily. It is a learning aspect, but often what is missed is communication, or even what we might call 'thinking out loud.' This can relieve the pressure and bring perspective. But people with this aspect often have trouble listening to others well and absorbing the emotional content in a way that can be beneficial to all involved. Control issues in communication.

---

This all sounds like me. It's like I can't turn off my "learning mode." Ever. But what helps me the most when processing emotions and situations, is talking to other people about them. It's like the energy just bounces around my head and I can't stop thinking about the issue until I have a conversation about it, even if I've journaled about it already.

posted January 02, 2023 06:54 PM            

your other aspects are similar to mine. And thank God I have them?

Funny, I am currently studying neuroscience. Which I didn't mention before.

In response to you studying languages, I cannot study languages. It would be the worst for me, tedious recalls and pronunciations. I just cannot sustain it. But, the principles and roots of language is something that I can get into. Which is more the linguistic domain I believe.

Your life sounds like you are using this aspect wisely, edenhardwicke. This is good news

Belage, your comment is enlightening! If it's that bad, maybe I finally have somewhere in my chart that I can pin all my troubles on, lol. And I am actually not being as sarcastic as that sounds. Additionally, if it is that bad, it highlights a lack of discussion and analysis into the impact that Mercury has. As astrologers, we should talk more about Mercury then. it is the most inner planet after all!

Kannon, that's a perfect description. I love love your technical descriptions, because it really helps to understand what is going on. Obviously, I like technical analyses and facts!

"problem solving" -
It is, or so I tell myself. There really has been a never ending stream of problems to solve, however. And I wonder, if I didn't take the effort to solve them, I probably would be dead. Astrology's peculiar like that, the outer world can reflect the inner world. We are trapped in a hologram. But that's another story.....

"tendency to darken one's view of most things, putting pennies in the piggy bank of pessimism." -
What many would say too. But, my life has been very dark, and I don't see that any of it had to do with me, or the way I think about life. Again, unless you believe in the power of attraction. That chicken or egg quandary, is of course another discussion. And one I've struggled with.

Study -
Study, study is all I've ever done, sadly. I know too much about too many things. A jack of all, but have not focused it anywhere very practical. Again, I put this down to an unstable life, generally, with a continual shifting of external goal posts. And time moving fast, and along with it changing contexts of my life moving faster than I can run.

"Control issues in communication" -
I gather this refers to accuracy, clarity, and purposeful communication? As I already detailed in my above response? Not controlling other people.

"But people with this aspect often have trouble listening to others well and absorbing the emotional content in a way that can be beneficial to all involved" -
Guess this depends? My Mercury is trine my Moon, and perhaps why I don't feel this one (and wide sextile Nep and Jup)? I am such a good listener. Or maybe that's something I have improved? On the other hand, I wish that I didn't listen to them - because they annoy me, and give nothing back.

Sometimes people talk too much for the sake of just talking. They whine about problems, but they don't scout for solutions. Or, they are not information rich, so therefore have little content to dialogue or cross reference with. So, that may be an insight into this aspect and why listening is a challenge? IDK.

Mind you, just as an aside, I'm not a complete bore, my Mercury is also closer trined to Uranus. Obviously a riot of an aspect, and the home of (high end) banter and witty repartee.

Maybe I should have listened to Saturn's sage advice to Mercury in the first place when he warned early on: don't listen to these people they will drain you with their BS, lol. In the sense that, give them an inch, they take a mile. I've learned overtime to exercise boundaries, so maybe I've found a middle ground.

posted January 02, 2023 09:07 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sassaqua:
edenhardwicke,

your other aspects are similar to mine. And thank God I have them?

Funny, I am currently studying neuroscience. Which I didn't mention before.

In response to you studying languages, I cannot study languages. It would be the worst for me, tedious recalls and pronunciations. I just cannot sustain it. But, the principles and roots of language is something that I can get into. Which is more the linguistic domain I believe.

Your life sounds like you are using this aspect wisely, edenhardwicke. This is good news

---

Thank you! And I think the language-learning thing is probably more related to me having Pallas and Neptune in my 9th house in Aquarius, and Jupiter in the 1st, than it is to me having Mercury square Saturn. That's because of all the Sagittarius influence, which I know is related to travel and different cultures as well as higher learning. But it all goes together, and I think the Mercury-Saturn square probably gives me more of an ability to intensely focus on learning things, which in this case is languages. I probably pick up on the grammar and mechanics of the languages I'm learning more easily because of it too, while my Neptune helps me kind of just "absorb" the information (pronunciation, mannerisms, etc.) without thinking.

posted January 03, 2023 12:12 AM            

But Chiron trine Uranus also hit me and last about the same amount of time.

I think Chiron trine Uranus sorta balanced out the negatives of Mercury Square Saturn.

It sorta felt like the bridge I built was washed out (Mercury Square Saturn) then Chiron trine Uranus gave me the freedom to build a new bridge provided I acknowledge the rules and restrictions.

If you have this aspect natal, look for other other aspects that will balance it out.

My Planets
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☉‘ ♊, ☽ ♈, ASC ♑, ☿ ♊, ¡÷ ♉, ¡ö ♋ , ♃ ♒, ♄ ♏, ♅ ♐, ♆ ♑

posted January 03, 2023 05:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by edenhardwicke:
This all sounds like me...

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I forgot to mention that the gem/crystal I recommend for this Saturn-heavy effect is Amethyst.

If the anxiety were the drifting Neptune kind, then it would be Sodalite, but with Saturn it is Amethyst. That's the traditional Vedic stone for Saturn, and in Greek tradition Amethyst was used to bring into balance unhealthy patterns of altered states of mind (intoxication). Intense worry fits that.

I've been wearing several small Amethysts in my pouch for about 4 weeks or so now (since Saturn moved back into transit square my natal Mercury) — and it has helped noticeably.

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Astrological gemstone readings for your energetic balance, healing, and soul development. http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/services/

posted January 04, 2023 01:58 PM            

- Are these thoughts useful?
- How do they behave?