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posted July 16, 2011 02:03 PM            

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unfortunately those olden times were also vastly less populated than these current ones. and if you want to make a point it helps to include present times in the graph to illustrate your point...or does it negate it?

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Posts: 5659
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted July 16, 2011 03:22 PM            

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What makes you think there is any correlation between population and temperature katatonic?

The chart merely shows that for most of the last 10,000 years earth has been warmer than it is now.

Let me bring you up to date chart wise katatonic.

The total warming in the 20th century amounted to 7/10th of one (1) degree. Wow, now that's catastrophic warming.

I agree with Randall.

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posted July 16, 2011 03:46 PM            

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as you may or may not remember i'm no warming "alarmist" - i reckon it will take care of itself. but if you're trying to make a point including the current time period would be more convincing! yours stops some time ago(95 years ago in fact). that is all.

however the RESULTS of warming, natural or not, in a sparsely populated largely agricultural society are very different than in our current, coastal-city intensive, industrial/nuclear society with all the waste produced and plants at risk from extreme weather events such as often occur - in times of global warming! that is why population matters, also technology.

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posted July 16, 2011 05:16 PM            

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I brought you fully up to date katatonic.

There was 0.7 degree of warming in the 20th Century...most of it between 1915 and 1936.

So, if I understand your warming theory, the fewer people the warmer the earth's temperature?

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posted July 16, 2011 07:37 PM            

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not at all and your graph ENDS 95 YEARS before the year 2000. go back and look at the bottom line and explanation, jwhop! "years before 2000 AD" which is why the medieval period is on the 500(ish) marker.

when there are fewer people the loss of some coastline matters much less, that is all. so less damage/effect is felt. it is also a lot harder to argue that people caused the warming when they are sparsely spread around the jernt.

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Posts: 6549
From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted July 21, 2011 04:04 PM            

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Oohh...what's this? The notorious weather quoter speaking against Global warming in the midst of an American heatwave?

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Posts: 1977
From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
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posted July 21, 2011 05:23 PM            

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You know I was thinking today where are all the climate change deniers that were crowing about snow last year...
Oh my gosh! look at all the snow~!! MUST be global warming.

there is a difference, big difference, between climate and weather.

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posted July 21, 2011 08:58 PM            

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A heatwave in America has no bearing on global temperature. Boy, the alarmists really grasp at straws in the latter days of their religion's demise.

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Posts: 1977
From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
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posted July 21, 2011 09:53 PM            

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exactly.
however
now is the time to mention that the last 10 years are the warmest on record.

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From: Saturn next to Charmainec
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posted July 21, 2011 11:00 PM            

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The data doesn't support that. That's just what the religionists claim. AND EVEN IF IT WERE TRUE, it proves nothing.

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posted July 21, 2011 11:14 PM            

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I'm surprised that the same people who think we are baking the planet are the ones who are against large corporations having monopolizing control and raking in profits...because global warming is all about environmental organizations raking in billions, monopolizing, and controlling--while the uneducated and uninformed citizenry who are green-minded unwittingly help them to do it.

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posted July 21, 2011 11:19 PM            

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The whole carbon credit Gore machine is about nothing but money-driven greed--its basic premise being that anyone can pollute with impunity as long as they can afford to pay for the right to do so. You global warming alarmists have been duped by the very monopolistic machinery you despise...just in a different cloak. You are cogs in their machine, and they are laughing all the way to the bank.

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Posts: 5659
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted July 22, 2011 10:07 AM            

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How quickly they forget! The man made global warming religion has a temperature for everyone.

Too hot? It's global warming.
Too Cold? It's global warming.
Just right? It's global warming.
Too much rain? It's global warming.
Drought? It's global warming.
Normal rainfall? It's global warming.
Hurricanes? It's global warming.
No hurricanes? It's global warming.
Blizzards? It's global warming.
No snow? It's global warming.
Normal snowfall? It's global warming.
Irish Potato Famine? It was global warming.

First, you tell a gigantic lie...human emission of CO2 is causing catastrophic global warming.

Then, you falsely claim everyone agrees with you...there is a scientific "consensus", the issue is "settled science".

Then, you move heaven and earth to prevent scientists who do disagree with you from being heard...you refuse to have your global warming research peer reviewed by real scientists; you shut down the peer review process to scientists who disagree with you; you attempt to have scientists who disagree with you fired from their professional positions.

In the midst of all this, we find out there's a handful of scientists in the "Man Made Global Warming Religion" and on the other side, we find 31,000 American scientists, 9,000 of whom hold a PhD, who sign a petition to the US government declaring Man Made Global Warming is a crock of crap.

That's what constitutes "a consensus" in the Man Made Global Warming Religion.

Then, we find out all the "Chicken Little Hysteria" is about 0.7..that's 7/10th of ONE degree of warming, most of which happened BEFORE 1940.

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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted July 22, 2011 12:10 PM            

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quote:

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A heatwave in America has no bearing on global temperature. Boy, the alarmists really grasp at straws in the latter days of their religion's demise.

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That's what I've been telling Jwhop for some time. Every time there's a winter storm he likes to laugh at global warming as if he has some footing based on weather (much like the Medieval Warm Period). There have been both freak summer and winter storms for the last few years, which may indeed be a result of the climate change.

quote:

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The data doesn't support that.

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The data absolutely supports that. If you have some alternate data you'd like to offer up for inspection, go ahead, but the scientific record is pretty clear on this.

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Posts: 5659
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted July 22, 2011 12:37 PM            

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Yeah, I laugh at the global warming nuts. Whenever Algore or one of the fruit loops global warming crazies groups schedule a global warming rally, mother nature hands them a blizzard.

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From: Saturn next to Charmainec
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posted July 22, 2011 01:48 PM            

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Their disconnect with science reflects their disconnect with the true profit motives driving the myths they so strongly adhere to.

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posted July 22, 2011 01:51 PM            

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yes and the Deniers disconnect with their own reasoning when it suits their argument. oh dear. i guess we will have to wait and see, won't we?

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted July 22, 2011 02:10 PM            

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"yes and the Deniers disconnect with their own reasoning when it suits their argument."..katatonic

Example please! What in the hell are you talking about?

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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted July 22, 2011 02:49 PM            

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quote:

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Their disconnect with science reflects their disconnect with the true profit motives driving the myths they so strongly adhere to.

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The ONLY disconnects from the science in this debate here have been on the Right. Neither you nor Jwhop have established anything on the topic scientifically.

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posted July 22, 2011 03:02 PM            

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Monopolization, control, and obscene profits are perfectly fine for corporations when used to "save the earth" from less-than-a-one-degree temperature hike (by their own admission). So, why can't it be okay for other corporations to rake in profits?

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"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." Aristotle

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posted July 22, 2011 03:22 PM            

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There is a correlation between population and temperature, Jwhop, albeit an erroneous one. The correlation is that wrong readings are being taken of the surface temperature in cities with pavement; such readings are worthless.

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"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." Aristotle

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Posts: 5659
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted July 22, 2011 05:17 PM            

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There is no question that concentrated population centers produce and register more heat...from lots of absorbing and radiating sources. It's also true that temperature recording equipment should not be located in city centers, at airports, beside air conditioning heat exchangers or any other radiating heat source, like asphalt and concrete. But many are.

I was responding to katatonics comment...

"unfortunately those olden times were also vastly less populated than these current ones. and if you want to make a point it helps to include present times in the graph to illustrate your point...or does it negate it?"

What seems to have gotten lost in the thinking of some, is that temperatures were higher "Back Then"...than they are today.

Which is why I also said this...

"So, if I understand your warming theory, the fewer people, the warmer the earth's temperature?"

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posted July 22, 2011 06:09 PM            

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I don't see anything new out of either of you that suggests that you're right.

If the actual experts were to go back or hedge on what they've claimed, I'd have absolutely no problem with it at all. Everything about the climate is NOT known. However, the dominant science lies with the global warming camp. That's been unchanged for years now. No American Thinker article is going to change that.

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posted July 22, 2011 06:26 PM            

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I knew what you meant, Jwhop. I wasn't actually correcting you--just using a feigned correction to introduce my concept.

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"To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing." Aristotle

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posted July 23, 2011 12:02 AM            

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in the year 2000 i lived in a particularly warm area with a big back yard that needed daily watering during the dry season. i had an oscillating sprinkler that could cover half the garden, so i watered in two shifts of about 15 minutes each. without fail by the time i moved the sprinkler to the other side, a breeze picked up in the yard and the temp went down by several degrees.

this is how easily a small microclimate can be influenced. it's not a big stretch to realize that right next door, the effect wasn't so dramatic, but the breeze did cross the fence. the same is true of populated, paved areas...their warmth does spread to the neighbouring areas. put down enough pavement and pour out enough AC exhaust, and the whole eastern seaboard warms up together.

asphalt is warmer than forestland. as asphalt grows and becomes a larger percentage, and forestland shrinks, not only does CO2 go up and O2 down, but whole areas get warmer. now the CO2 may not be causing more warming, but is sure as hell is not making oxygen any more available to breathe...so unless you want to invest in oxygen delivery, you might want to find a way to limit overproduction of CO2.

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