posted March 30, 2010 12:10 PM         

i have no idea what living in cuba is like. i know it was once the playground of the rich and that despite our cutting them off we own a choice little piece of it where we seem to think we can do what we like cos no one is looking...and that the little man generally likes to make himself look big at every opportunity and anyone's expense.

"And I can't imagine how simplistic a mindset one must have in order to assume that anyone who doesn't back this PARTICULAR plan does not support healthcare reform at all. The world is not black and white; forgive me for assuming that fact to be common knowledge."

i could say i think it simplistic of you to assume that because i may have misread your intentions...which were left out of your post...i approve of the plan, or that i think the world is black and white. i have been arguing for shades of colour here for months, and everytime i point out that other countries are painted in CARICATURE HERE i am called a leftist idiot.

this bill is a step and i am HOPING the republicans will help hammer it into a better shape. but it WAS the republicans who came up with the mandate despite all protestations that this is the devil spawn of marxist obama.

the constitution as written actually gives the federal government the right to levy taxes and other means it deems necessary for the general welfare...and does NOT prohibit it from instituting guidelines for healthcare. it DOES suggest that the purpose of the constitution and government in general is to establish JUSTICE for all...pity it doesn't spell out SOCIAL justice that would derail the current suggestions that "social justice" is just a euphemism for communism.

i actually think this whole thing has shown that the system is still working DESPITE the corruption, obstructionism, yada yada that it has also exposed. and it's not over yet. generally i have great respect for your thoughtfulness and fairmindedness, and if i was jumping the gun, please, enlighten me...

posted March 30, 2010 04:29 PM         

quote:

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AG

Yes, it is one dimensional: I posted 1 article. I'll start adding worthy counter arguments to everything I post if you promise to do the same.

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So you're saying that this is an incidental counter argument, and not a worthy counter argument? You meant nothing by noting a Communist leader endorses the new law...even while preceding it with a few comments?

Personally, I think that if you have a problem with some argument I've made then you should speak up just as I did. I'm more than happy to provide more information if necessary.

quote:

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There is no way to have a civilized discussion without trying to ACTUALLY understand what someone else is saying. And if you don't know, ask.

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Why is it that whenever someone challenges you, you resort to this argument that they're merely misunderstanding you? When you write something brief, do you believe you're conveying the nuance of your position? Why is it always on other person to get you to expand upon your position? You've said all sorts of stereotypically Republican-sounding stuff on these boards, and each time you're challenged you resort to this same defense. Now, being a Sag, I for one would expect you to have a lot of more nuanced views, but you don't do a good job of conveying them. If you feel misunderstood, express yourself.

posted March 31, 2010 02:33 PM         

Are you capable of getting anything right katatonic?

I'm in the upper echelons of those on this site who actually champion 1st Amendment free speech rights and encourage members to speak.

I long ago stated the the premise that I want more speech here by those who disagree with me, not less.

This is a logical premise which, over time, has been proven beneficial for getting some here to show their radicalism, state their fallacies...which they hold as their dear truths but which are untrue, unworkable or which history has already exposed as absolute nonsense or worse, murderous.

I've taken the position of more speech by those who disagree with me in the full knowledge that even though they know I'm asking for them to expose themselves as the loony leftists they really are; they are genetically incapable of absorbing the wise advice attributed to Abraham Lincoln:

posted March 31, 2010 04:06 PM         

i know you like to think yourself a master of psychological warfare but you only show how thick you are and how you consider sadistic simplemindedness a virtue... and how foolish old men can get when someone props up a reasonably attractive female puppet in front of them to drool over.

"snakes who hide under rocks have a better chance of surprising their prey..." old chinese proverb.

posted March 31, 2010 07:54 PM         

Ummm, you forgot intimidation.

Ummm, nope, I consider those to be leftist tactics used to shut up all those who disagree with them.

Unfortunately...for leftists, those tactics don't work with me.

posted April 01, 2010 01:03 AM         

You're like a child trying to boss around a parent. You don't understand the realm in which your power works. It's not anywhere near my realm. You don't understand this. You push an agenda. I don't. You, in fact, do wish to rule. I believe in liberty.

You make stupid assertions such as suggesting that leftists wish to control, and then you contradict yourself by making yourself out to be a person controlling another. You must be a leftist, huh? Same ol' idiotic stuff.

posted April 01, 2010 11:09 AM         

An estimated 10,000 unhappy voters showed up in Harry Reids home town of Searchlight NV...population 1,000 to tell Harry Reid he's fired.

Now, demoscats have scuttled back into the woodwork and are laying low hoping voters will have forgotten their betrayal by November 2.

No such luck! They marched off the cliff for O'BomberCare and voters won't forget or forgive.

U.S. Democrats lie low after healthcare victory
01 Apr 2010 12:00:23 GMT
Source: Reuters

posted April 01, 2010 04:10 PM         

apparently fox media are trying to whip the tea parties up into violent clashes, warning people that there may be "anarchist counter-protesters" showing up - the response to which is typically "bring it on i'm bringing my gun"...

who was it who said the "left" wants to shut up the opposition? bringing guns is a good way to encourage a dialogue, don't you think? who's afraid of the other side opening their mouths??

posted April 01, 2010 04:42 PM         

I stand foursquare for more speech...as I've stated over and over going back years here.

Shutting the opposition up is the tactic of whiny, screeching, shrieking leftists...including those here....as they have proved over and over here...in the past.

Currently, there are some whiny, screeching shrieking leftists making false allegations about tea party members to shut them up.

Currently, a whiny, screeching, shrieking leftist, Henry Waxman,(D)unce from California, is attempting to shut up CEO's of major corporations who have produced SEC filings showing O'BomberCare is going to cost just one corporation up to a BILLION dollars to implement. Estimates are that it will cost major corporations $14 Billion...and that from only one page of O'BomberCare. Chalk that up to attempted intimidation by this whiny, screeching, shrieking leftist Waxman.

Ummm, let's see. I thought O'BomberCare was supposed to create jobs. That was the baloney O'Bomber was spouting.

So, how does taking $14 Billion out of corporation profits make them more able to hire new people, expand operations or even keep all the employees they have?

In the meantime, those backstabbing demoscat congressional members who voted for O'BomberCare against the will of their constitutients are in hiding out and keeping mum.

posted April 01, 2010 05:35 PM         

pardon the varicolour post, not sure what happened but all the coloured portion is not part of the same text...

"Anarchists Plan War on Tea Parties April 15th
Violent anarchists are planning on infilitrating and sabotaging the Tea Party Protests on April 15th.

The Jawa Report posted this call to arms from the violent anarchists at Infowars today:

Read The Full Article
ShareThis"

note that fox nation calls this a declaration of "war", uses the adjective violent and the description "anarchist" - all the "invitation" says is let's have a protest of our own to show that the tea party is not speaking for "americans" in general. no suggestion of guns or violence till you get to the "tea partiers'" responses...

"Anarchists Plan War On April 15th Tea Parties
Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 5:38 PM
Jim Hoft
WARNING: Be on the lookout–
Bring your cameras.

Violent anarchists are planning on infilitrating and sabotaging the Tea Party Protests on April 15th.

The Jawa Report posted this call to arms from the violent anarchists at Infowars today:

On April 15th thousands of right-wingers will attend rallies in cities and towns across the United States. The organizers of this nationwide day of protest call it a tea party. This tea party movement that emerged only a year ago is a coalition of conservatives, anti-Semites, fascists, libertarians, racists, constitutionalists, militia men, gun freaks, homophobes, Ron Paul supporters, Alex Jones conspiracy types and American flag wavers. If the tea party movement continues to grow in size and strength there is a big chance they will dominate this country in the near future. If the tea party movement takes over this country they will really hurt poor people by getting rid of social programs like food stamps, unemployment benefits, disability benefits, student aid, free health care, etc. The tea party movement will say these programs must be gotten rid of because hard-working taxpayers cannot afford to pay for these things especially when the economy is in a depression. There are three options we have with the tea party movement:

1. Organize counter-protests against the tea party demonstrations, same time, same place. This is probably the best option. We need to get in the streets on April 15th and show the tea party movement that there are lots of people out there who oppose their agenda.

2. Get individual tea party protesters to leave the right-wing and move to the left politically. That would involve passing out stuff like this at the tea party demonstrations: [URL=http://www.anarchist-studies.org/node/299]http://www.anarchist-studies.org/node/299

3. Ignore the tea party movement. This is the worst option because without anyone opposing them they could easily gain power.

Comments (213)

213 Comments
Newer Comments »Tom Mannis
March 31st, 2010 | 5:43 pm | #1
I’ll wear my hard hat and carry my “little friend” under a jacket.

Chris
March 31st, 2010 | 5:44 pm | #2
Modern anarchism is basically the bastion of idiot college students. How else do you reconcile a philosophy that calls for no government whatsoever with this laundry list of entitlement freebies:

“food stamps, unemployment benefits, disability benefits, student aid, free health care, etc.”

And people wonder why I consider the post-WW2 generations, on the whole, to be the most worthless in human history.

Andrew B
March 31st, 2010 | 5:47 pm | #3
Perhaps my dictionary is broken, but I can’t help but join in wondering why anarchists–whose entire political theory is based on the absence of government–would favor vast, costly social programs. Shouldn’t they, instead of shilling for food stamps, welfare and “free” healthcare, tell the poor to build a yurt and raise goats?

Again, my defective dictionary also seems to have a definition of “irony” that is not found in the anarchists’ edition.

wanumba
March 31st, 2010 | 5:47 pm | #4
I mentioned this sort of thing to watch out for a couple of days ago – the “flash mobs” insta-organize riots becoming a tool for intimidation especially at the November elections. The recent Philly flash mob violence looked like practice.

Jim
March 31st, 2010 | 5:49 pm | #5
This will,I believe, be a very grave mistake on their part. I too will be carrying my little friend and hope they do not decide to get violent with me or the wife. (she will have her little friend also)

Gravis
March 31st, 2010 | 5:49 pm | #6
I smell fear in the air. Fear that these idiots will lose all of their entitlements.

Go on, you bratty college-failures – Go on and prove how everything we say about progressives and liberals are true; you’ll only make us stronger.

We’re not going to stop until every piece of socialistic communism is cleaned out of American’s veins and then when we take it back, we’ll throw you over our knees and spank you like the children you are.

exceller
March 31st, 2010 | 5:49 pm | #7
Right, the deadbeats on foodstamps on unemployment are going to attend a rally? not bloodly likely. Perhaps if the SEIU pays enough of them they might."

one commenter seems to actually understand what anarchist means!! now there's a turnaround.

i smell fear too. fear that someone on the other side might care enough to be heard. fear of education. and fear of being made to look ridiculous. sigh......

posted April 01, 2010 05:42 PM         

Excerpts:

quote:

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Naomi Wolf, author of 'End of America,' talks about why she has become an improbable Tea Party darling, and if progressives can learn from the conservative activists

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quote:

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Justine Sharrock: First off, is your book still relevant under Obama?

Naomi Wolf: Unfortunately it is more relevant. Bush legalized torture, but Obama is legalizing impunity. He promised to roll stuff back, but he is institutionalizing these things forever. It is terrifying and the left doesn’t seem to recognize it.

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quote:

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JS: Why do you think the sides don’t understand each other?

NW: Frankly, liberals are out of the habit of communicating with anyone outside their own in cohort. We have a cultural problem with self-righteousness and elitism. Liberals roll their eyes about going on "Oprah" to reach a mass audience by using language that anyone can understand even if you majored in semiotics at Yale. We look down on people we don’t agree with. It doesn’t serve us well.

There is also a deliberate building up of two camps that benefits from whipping up home team spirit and demonizing the opposition. With the Internet there is even more fractioning since we are in echo chambers. With so much propaganda it is hard to calm down enough to listen.

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quote:

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JS: What do you think is the biggest misconception about the Tea Parties?

NW: The Tea Party is not monolithic. There is a battle between people who care about liberty and the Constitution and the Republican Establishment who is trying to take ownership of it and redirect it for its own purposes.

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posted April 01, 2010 05:50 PM         

"Not going to end well for them though."

seems to me there are a lot of people in this country who are p1ssed they missed combat somehow along the way and can't wait for a fight.

not going to end well for anyone, jwhop! once again, where do you think this is headed?? a peaceful return to the 18th century constitution? bollocks, man. have you got no foresight whatsoever?

posted April 02, 2010 10:46 AM         

-Rudolf Steiner

Sometimes certain events must happen because forces "behind the scenes" of the world stage have enabled them for certain purposes of which most people have no understanding. Perhaps this law was passed so as to be put through our rigorous system of checks and balances, that it may be deemed legal or illegal and hold less sway in the consciousness of our people.

Certainly, the will of the people has been bested and one can only hope to make the best of this situation. If we keep fighting, which I feel is the right thing to do in this case, we may repeal this legislation. The end is not there, however, for the problems that we face in health care are neither imagined nor negligible. In this particular time in history, a time when humanity is so distant from a proper understanding of the spiritual order of the Cosmos, it seems that this particular event was unavoidable.

posted April 02, 2010 11:14 AM         

This is the continuation of the quote I posted above.

"One of these things — and it will assert itself most powerfully — is the guiding or directing of men more deeply in line with occult principles than has ever before been possible. It lies in the general character of evolution that during this Fifth Post-Atlantean epoch, certain conditions connected with the exercise of power, of influence, must pass into the hands of small groups who will wield great power over other, large masses of people.
A certain section of public opinion vehemently resists this trend; nevertheless it will assert itself and for the following reason. During the Fifth Post-Atlantean epoch, simply because of inner maturity and evolutionary necessity, a large portion of humanity will unfold certain spiritual faculties, a certain natural capacity to see into the spiritual world. This portion of humanity, which will indeed provide the best foundation for the future Sixth Post-Atlantean epoch — this portion of humanity, while in process of preparation during the Fifth epoch, will show little inclination to be actively concerned with the affairs of the physical plane. Such men will have little interest in physical affairs and will be engrossed in ennobling the life of soul, in regulating certain matters connected with the spiritual life. And because of this, others less spiritually inclined will be able to seize for themselves certain factors connected with the exercise of power — to get them into their own hands.
This is something that arises with a kind of necessity. Among men who were cognisant of these things it was the subject of much discussion throughout the last third of the nineteenth century, and they always stressed the vital necessity that this potential should be directed - not into evil but into good channels. During the last third of the nineteenth century, especially just before its turn, one could hear occultists on every hand insisting that precautions must be taken to ensure that such means of power come into the hands of worthy men. Naturally, with the exception of a very few groups, opinions differed as to who were really worthy; each group championed the claims of those with whom the world had brought it into contact. But the whole matter was the subject of almost day-to-day conversation among occultists and, in a certain sense, has remained so to this day."