posted July 29, 2010 02:07 AM         

Eris is retrograde..

Which means what? This is all I can really find:

The Astrology of Eris, the New Dwarf Planet

Note: Scroll down to see the horoscope for the discovery of UB313, now known as Eris.
Eris, the new name for the dwarf planet UB313 (Xena), was the Greek goddess who was not invited to the forced wedding of Peleus and Thetis. In retaliation, Eris tossed an apple (a fruit with a rich symbolic tradition in many world cultures) inscribed “For the most beautiful one” into the middle of the wedding party—an action which led to the judgment of Paris and indirectly resulted in the Trojan War. She is thus a goddess of strife and discord.

Eris was also the sister of Ares, the Greek god of war. In Roman mythology, Ares was named Mars. We thus have a sister planet to Mars. Some have complained that this naming smacks of patriarchal attitudes: Why pick the name of a “crazy” goddess who inadvertently started the Trojan War? And why attach it to a “dwarf planet”? Why not a crazy guy/god instead?

Goddess of discord is just one way of looking at Eris. As we know, Mars is much more than just a god of war—although he is that, too. The same goes for Eris. According to Hesiod,

“But the other [side of Eris] is the elder daughter of dark Night and the son of Cronus who sits above and dwells in the ether, set her in the roots of the earth: and she is far kinder to men. She stirs up even the shiftless to toil; for a man grows eager to work when he considers his neighbor, a rich man who hastens to plough and plant and put his house in good order; and neighbor vies with his neighbor as he hurries after wealth. This Strife is wholesome for men.”

In other words, another form of the word strife is “striving.” Competition creates conditions where individuals (and, some would assert, nations) strive to improve their situations in life.

Eris was a central character in Disney’s Sleeping Beauty and the Grimm’s folk tale upon which it was based, “Briar Rose.” Sleeping Beauty has been castigated for presenting the feminine role model of a sleeping woman rescued by Prince Charming. In the Disney animation, the uninvited Maleficent—a recast Eris—curses the baby princess Aurora, setting in motion a chain of events which leads to eventual sleep and male-induced awakening. The feminist revision of this now views Maleficent as the uninvited (by patriarchal culture) true strength and power of women. Eris has been discovered at a time when feminist power is asserting itself in powerful ways.

In the Grimm’s version of this tale—from which Disney adopted the movie animation—the Eris character is still a woman who was not invited to a party, the christening of the princess Briar Rose. There were no fairies in the Grimm’s version, but rather twelve “wise women”:

“When eleven of them had made their promises, suddenly the thirteenth came in. She wished to avenge herself for not having been invited, and without greeting, or even looking at anyone, she cried with a loud voice, ‘The king's daughter shall in her fifteenth year prick herself with a spindle, and fall down dead." And, without saying a word more, she turned round and left the room.’ They were all shocked, but the twelfth, whose good wish still remained unspoken, came forward, and as she could not undo the evil sentence, but only soften it, she said, it shall not be death, but a deep sleep of a hundred years, into which the princess shall fall.”

As a result of the curse of the uninvited guest, the entire kingdom was affected. Spinning wheels were banned, but Briar Rose stumbled upon one and pricked her finger. The kingdom fell into a 100 year collective sleep. Since there were twelve “wise women” who were invited, we can infer astrological significance from this even though that may not have been the Grimm brothers’ intent when they recorded these folk tales as parts of German oral folk narratives. The thirteenth was uninvited, much like the planet Eris seems to have been.

The spindle is part of a spinning wheel, which is symbolic of wholeness, the self, and creativity, spinning cloth. The zodiac is also a spinning wheel. Briar Rose was led to the spinning wheel by the thirteenth woman, showing the greaat power of the uninvited guest. In the original Grimm's version, there is even a suggestion that the thirteenth woman was at the spinning wheel when Briar Rose "accidentally" came across it.

Click here to read Anne Sexton’s feminist poem, “Briar Rose (Sleeping Beauty).”

What can we infer from these versions of the Eris myth? First, Eris probably does symbolize the conditions which create competition. When she threw the apple into the wedding party, she created competition—a kind of Olympian beauty pageant that was ultimately judged by Paris.

The fact that Pearl Harbor—with havoc wreaked by explosive, shrieking “apples” thrown into an island paradise—took place just as Eris squared the U.S. Venus suggests this planet’s contemporary power to sew discord.

Eris takes almost 560 years to complete one orbit around the Sun, roughly half a Millennium. This would give the planet significance in the large movements of history, climate, nations, cultures, and religions. However, her presence in Aries in most of our lives (those younger than about 80) creates a personal point in our individual horoscopes. Aspects to Eris may be significant. Only by studying Eris and how it acts in individual charts will astrologers be able to reach some conclusions. See an online ephemeris for Eris/UB313.

Scroll down to see a horoscope set for the exact time—as reported by one of its discoverers in an online Cal Tech diary—of the discovery of Eris. The discovery also came at the same time as the launch of the New Horizons spacecraft to Pluto and the Kuiper Belt, a synchronous event. Eris is part of the Kuiper Belt and is therefore emblematic of the newly emerging power of that outer region of the solar system.

The name of this new dwarf planet is highly relevant because the world is filled with strife and discord. Mike Brown, the astronomer who discovered Eris, said he named it because of the discord surrounding the planet classification system which demoted Pluto. Since the late 1920’s, Eris has been squaring the U.S. planets in Cancer: Venus, Jupiter, the Sun, and now Mercury. When Pearl Harbor was bombed, Eris squared the U.S. Venus to the exact degree. The 20th Century, which we now know to be marked by Eris’s passage through Aries, was the bloodiest in history.

Eris was discovered by a team of astronomers at Cal Tech in Pasadena. According to one of the team members, Mike Brown, writing on the Cal Tech website:

"Because the new planet is so far away it is moving slower than most of the objects that we find. It is moving so slowly, in fact, that our computers didn't notice it the first time around! We began a special reanalysis a year later to specifically look for very distant objects. This reanalysis found the new planet at 11:20AM PST on January 5th 2005, almost 1 1/2 years after the initial data were obtained. Note that initial reports suggested that the discovery date was January 8th. We apologize for the mistake; it was caused because of the craziness surrounding the first day of announcement. We didn't have time to check our notes and apparently our memories are not as good as they used to be."

What I must ask is this..

If it takes Eris 560 years to complete an orbit around the sun, how in the hell can we take the aspect so seriously?

Eris has been retrograde for almost forever. Well at least since June 26, 1915 (wshen it was still in Pisces) and will remain so for many, many years or, past December 2048 (and it will be retro in Taurus).

posted July 29, 2010 04:13 AM         

a matter of fact

Eris just turned retrograde on June 18, 2010
It will go direct again on Jan 10, 2011

you can verify by checking the Ephemeris http://www.true-node.com/

I don't see why Eris' orbit of 560 years means that it doesn't have a significant astrological influence

I don't see why Sedna's orbit of 11,000 years means that it doesn't have significant astrological influence

these same type of arguments that skeptics of astrology use against astrology period
stuff like "planets are too far to effect us"

an astrologer who did use the same argument to exclude the transneptunian objects.

Vedic astrologers use the same type of arguments to exclude transSaturnian objects.

of course, there are astrologers that use the fixed stars, and those suckers aren't even in our solar system

some astrologers even use black holes, quasars,pulsars,etc in the chart like Philip Sedgwick

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 29, 2010 04:29 AM         

Based on reading Zane Stein's article and his keywords as well as Roy
MacKinnon's keywords and the charts that I have looked at, I believe
that Eris has to do with stirring stuff up, controversy, ideology,
civil/equal rights matters, standing up for self/others, advocacy,
bigotry, racism, minorities, race relations, diversity, .....all
those things are connected to each other too.

I don't believe that Eris is just about discord and controversy. I
think that there is more to it. That's like saying Pluto is just
about the underworld because Pluto/Hades is the God of the
underworld. Juan Revilla made good points that we can't just rely on
the name of the object for its astrological meaning. Uranus
personality traits fit more with Prometheus than the god, Uranus even
though Uranus/Ouranos was the sky god. Neptune personality traits fit
more with Dionysus/Bacchus even though Neptune/Poseidon was the sea god. I
looked at some asteroid stuff in regards to that. Juan Revilla said
that it's important to consider the orbital symbolism of the objects.
Philip Sedgwick takes into account the nodes and perihelion/aphelion
of the object.

Astronomical-oriented astrologers including Philip Sedgwick, Juan
Revilla, Zane Stein don't rely on the name of objects to derive
meaning from it.

Some of them suggested names to the astronomers that were accepted
for some centaurs after studying their orbits, physical properties.
Nessus was the first. http://www.zanestein.com/page4_2.htm

this is what Philip Sedgwick said
Star Blogs ~ The Galactic Times
Planet With No Name (Yet) ~ 02 Feb 2008

"So if you were Neil Young traversing the desert night sky on a
planet with no name, how could you derive any meaning for it? One,
consider its nature, uniqueness and physical profile. Two, assign
interpretive delineations by pondering the sign and degree of
critical orbital elements, specifically the node and closest point
the body makes to the Sun."

the closest point of the object makes to the sun is called the
Perihelion.

Here is some stuff by Juan Revilla who believes in the orbital
symbolism should be used to determine an object's astrological
meaning and not the name.

ORBITAL SYMBOLISM IN ASTROLOGY http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/essays/paradigm.html

Zane Stein even added Persephone/Proserpina symbolism in his Eris
keywords. Michael Brown wanted to name Eris "Persephone", and he even
said that it was like Persephone. He said that half of the time, Eris
orbits away from Pluto. But the names, "Persephone" and "Proserpina"
were given to asteroids. Obviously, astronomers gave mythological
names too readily. Michael Brown did give the name Eris after all the
discord among the astronomers. Methinks..that there could be
astrologers in discord. Many astrologers don't agree on many things
in Astrology like orbs are hotly debated.

I was thinking how Ceres and Pluto are made equals in Astronomy
because of the discovery of Eris, and how it can seem similar to how
Pluto/Hades and Ceres/Demeter shared equal amount of time with
Proserpina/Persephone.
Pluto got demoted to minor planet and assigned a minor planet number.
Ceres got promoted to dwarf planet. Therefore, Pluto and Ceres are
equals in astronomy. Pluto got the same treatment as Ceres. Ceres was
classed as a planet but got it's planetary status stripped after the
realization that it is one of many objects in the asteroid belt
between Mars and Jupiter. Now Pluto's planetary status is stripped
after the realization that it is one of many objects in the Kuiper
Belt. After they found Eris, the need to make a definition of what
planet had to be made. Astronomers even hypothesize there could be a
dozen Plutos out there and even some Mars-sized objects. Any
ways...Ceres and Pluto were made equals because of Eris, and so
that's one of the reasons that I believe Eris has to do with equal
rights, civil rights issues.. I am seeing Eris in civil rights, equal
rights events....especially involving Black civil rights issues. Eris
can be related to minority rights issues. Eris' Perihelion is in
Libra seems to reflect the equality, fairness, getting along that
Eris seems to call for. Eris' Aphelion in Aries seems to reflect the
war, conflict, aggression, trouble that Eris is known for causing.
Eris' North Node in Taurus seems to reflect the solidarity. It can
also be the stubbornness, materialism that often causes problems in
society and creates division between people. Eris' South Node in
Scorpio seems to reflect the transformation, rebirth, but also
revenge, resentment that often connection to division of humanity and
linked to racism.

When I think of Eris, I think of taking sides, forced to decide between two things, torn between two factions, dilemmas, "If you are not with me, you are against me", betrayal, resentment that happens after choosing a side, creating a bridge,narrowing the gap.

Eris orbits beyond Saturn, and so it seems like it can relate to the metaphysical. It is a kuiper belt object like Pluto, and so it can seem to relate to intensity, transformation, and rebirth. Eris' orbit
is more unusual than Pluto for its not only it's more elliptical, but it is tilted 44.187 degrees relative to the plane of the solar system. Pluto's orbit is only inclined 17 degrees. That would reflect that Eris relates to being a nonconformist as well as being divergent.

Based on reading Zane Stein's article and his keywords as well as Roy MacKinnon's keywords and the charts that I have looked at, I believe that Eris has to do with stirring stuff up, controversy,ideology,civil/equal rights matters, standing up for self/others, advocacy,bigotry, racism, minorities, race relations, diversity, .....all those things are connected to each other too.

It could be racial relations stuff like the racial divide,
interracial relationships, interracial marriages, interracial family
connections,and interracial parentage. It it could be the multiracial. It could even be international relations. It could be
like tolerance/intolerance of divergence, diversity, minorities(not necessarily race, ethnic...but even religion, sexual orientation, etc). It's the intolerance of divergents, diversity, minorities that
lead to equal/civil rights issues.

Roy, Zane, Francisco, and Phil have some very good preliminary
keywords for Eris, and they go well beyond discord. The Eris research
that I did seem to support their keywords.

Roy MacKinnon's Eris' Keywords:
Striving to achieve one's goals and refusing to capitulate to the
pressure of unjust treatment and discord from abusive authority :
with great inner conviction and single-mindedness of purpose
following a path of high attainment and enlightenment notwithstanding
adversity - alternatively refusing the call to transform with
mediocrity and underachievement as consequences: issues around power
abuse of minorities, the defenceless, the alien: networks,
multinational countries and companies, the world- wide web: piracy,
terrorism, clash of ideologies: conflict between desires of
personality and pursuit of the inner call: persecution of the
spiritually aware person who stands alone courageously acting
according to conscience: an outstanding individual ahead of the
times.

Zane Stein's Eris Keywords:
Loss of innocence, entrance into adulthood; child's trauma being
separated from parent; acceptance of unavoidable changes; dying and
being reborn (as opposed to Pluto which rules the causes/processes of
death and rebirth); internal split causing longing to be whole, the
longing of the soul for its other half; the subject/object of a
debate, argument, competition, conflict or war...what stirs people to
fight or disagree; fighting for one's rights; strife and discord;
pitting one side against the other; competition, contests and
tournaments; struggles for supremacy; rivalry; a test of skills or
abilities; love of fighting or debate; what one has at stake in a
competition, dispute or conflict, or one's perspective of what is
being fought over; refusing to relinquish one's hold on an ideal,
belief, cause, or object...'not budging an inch'; the problems
resulting from irreconcilable differences; contrasting different
perspectives; comparing thesis and antithesis in the search for
truth; contrasting opposing viewpoints to reveal each side more
clearly, to seek similarities as well as differences; contrasting
logical thought processes to show the limitations of logic;
identifying with, or trying to understand, first principles;
incongruous juxtapositions to force one to think outside of the box;
the ethics connected with one's motives and methods, and the coming
to light of less than spotless methods; the roots of one's
motivations; piracy, defrauding, swindling; society's ethics; race
intent.

Francesco Schiavinotto's Keywords:
Dam; Damming; Obstruction; Obliteration; To be opposite; Aversion for
the Extraneous; To obstacle the Alien; False Adaption between
Different Matters; Reciprocal Aversion; Feeling to be Invaded;
Resistance; Incommunicability; Controversial Figure; Ecological
Incompatibility; Underground Instability

It's Eris' Co-Discoverer, Michael Brown that seemed to give the clue
to Eris' meaning

"She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them
think their opinions are right and everyone else's is wrong, " Brown
said. "It really is just perfect." )
www-tech.mit.edu/V126/N38/38shorts2.html

That seems to fit with controversy,ideology,diversity,divergence,considerate/inconsiderate of viewpoints/opinions/beliefs/values,bigotry,terrorism, redefining
boundaries)......Honestly, I think that it not only fits with any belief system but also even Astrology(look at how much diversity is in Astology that involves so much disagreement that even Steven
Forrest ,who has Moon conjunct Eris, refers to the issue as Tower Babel and stated that the idea of "One True Astrology" is a myth and destructive). I even think that Eris might even be a co-ruler of Astrology.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 29, 2010 05:00 AM         

I believe that some of Eris' characteristics have been assigned to Uranus,and I know that this view is very controversial and ridiculous view to astrologer. What would many Vedic Astrologers and Classical Astrologers say about Modern Astrologers use of the outerplanets which aren't in their systems? They would say that they don't need the outerplanets because they already have the traditional 7 planets as well as the lunar nodes.

What would many Astronomers say about Astrologers in general? well......they would say that we are a bunch of pseudoscientists that are using inaccurate zodiac and that we are fraudulent and delusional for practicing such nonsense.

The traits of Uranus seem to be traits of Mercury,Jupiter,Saturn. Uranus can relate to Mercury because it's intellectual,nervous energy. It is also considered the high octave of Mercury. Like Uranus rules Aquarius,Mercury rules Gemini. Uranus can relate to Jupiter in regards to progression,freedom with Jupiter ruling the freedom-oriented,progressive sign Sagittarius. Uranus could possibly relate to Saturn with Saturn's traditional rulership of Aquarius which is a fixed sign and in that sense shares some rigidity with Saturn. I even think that Uranus and Saturn could possibly share some detachment. I believe that Vedic Astrologers do view Saturn as a detachment type of planet in some respects. They would see that my Moon in Aquarius aspected by Saturn indicates detachment in my Vedic Chart. They put mainly emphasis on Ketu(South Lunar Node) as detachment. They don't need to use Uranus to see detachment in charts. They also tend to see Rahu(North Lunar Node) as unconventional too,and they don't need to see Uranus for that. They would see my Rahu in 6th house as unconventional about work,service like Mars in Aquarius in 6th is viewed as that in Western Astrology.

The traits of Neptune seem to be traits of Moon,Jupiter,and Venus. Neptune can relate to Moon because it's sensitivity,dreams,and the unconscious. Some say Neptune is collective unconscious and Moon is personal unconscious. Neptune is exalted in Moon's sign,Cancer. Neptune can relate to Jupiter because of its idealism...especially with Jupiter's traditional rulership of Pisces which has been assigned to. Both Jupiter and Neptune are exalted in Cancer. Neptune can relate to Venus because it's aesthetic,relating to beauty,love. Venus is more about personal love and Neptune is more about collective or universal love. Neptune is considered the high octave of Venus. Neptune is said to be the mystic,but Ketu(South Lunar Node) is used as the mystical planet in Vedic Astrology. They would see my Ketu in Cancer in 12th as a mystical placement like Western Astrologers would see my Moon in Pisces(square its dispositor,Neptune) as one.

The traits of Pluto seem to be traits of Mars and Saturn. Pluto can relate to Saturn with it being seen by some as a dark planet. Saturn was the traditional planet of death,and now that's been assigned to Pluto.
Pluto can relate to Mars as it can be aggressive,passionate...especially with Mars' traditional rulership of Scorpio which has been assigned to Pluto. Vedic Astrologers tend to see Rahu(North Lunar Node) in regards to being very passionate in the way Pluto is. Pluto is considered the high octave of Mars. Another interesting thing is that both Mars and Saturn are considered to be malefics in classical and Vedic Astrology. Interestingly, Mars/Saturn midpoint is known as the death axis in Cosmobiology. That also makes me think of Pluto having a Mars/Saturn combo energy. Pluto was assigned the rulership of Scorpio which is the sign that Pluto's Perihelion has been in for many centuries. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Vedic Astrologers contribute the outerplanet energies to Rahu(North Lunar Node),Ketu(South Lunar Node) and Saturn. I have already mentioned some examples of that.

I believe that modern Astrologers that negatively criticize astrologers that use Eris would be no different from Vedic Astrologers and Classical Astrologers that criticize astrologers for using the outerplanets. Of course, it wouldn't be any different from astronomers that negatively criticize astrologers.

Astrology has really diverged from Astronomy since the Discovery of Uranus. Astrologers differ in their views,and there is a lot of disagreement about what methods to use. I believe that it's better to agree to disagree. It would be nice if astrologers even think of other astrological systems as equal and not viewing them as inferior,inaccurate,nor nonsense. Like I said before,many astrologers think of Uranus as stirring stuff up,controversy, and even one astrologer
contributed racism to Uranus,but I am convinced that is Eris.
Not only is their discord among astronomers but discord among astrologers.

I feel that all this relates to Eris which I believe rules Astrology along with Uranus. Astrology is a controversial subject in mainstream society.

I believe that Eris has to do with divergence,diversity more than Uranus does. Wars are fought because of differences in views,opinions,and beliefs.
People fought others that are different from them. People had that "you're wrong and I am right" mentality, and I see that going on in regards to morals,ethics,religion,politics,education,scientific fields,relationships,the food that we eat...I hate to say,but I see it in Astrology too. Even Steven Forrest who has a close Moon-Eris conjunction says that there is a Tower of Babel going on among astrologers,and he pointed out that the idea of one true Astrology is a myth and destructive. It's often thinking that one is better than the other which can lead to superiority-inferiority issues. This is what can lead to equal/civil rights issues. Then people feel the need to stand up for themselves and fight for their rights. They end up being advocates which astrologers assign to Uranus. I think that advocacy and activism are mixed up. I think activism is more linked to wanting to get changes made and even progress. It can even be independence to some degree. Abolitionism would seem like Uranus, but the whole slavery thing is based on ideology leading to the superiority-inferiority issues.

Dr. Michael E. Brown, a professor of planetary astronomy at the California Institute of Technology who discovered the distant ball of ice and rock that he nicknamed Xena and that had been designated 2003 UB313, chose the name Eris, after the goddess of discord and strife in Greek mythology.

“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Brown said. “It really is just perfect.” http://tech.mit.edu/V126/N38/38shorts2.html

Don't many people do that on our planet today? Of course they do, this has been going on for centuries,millenniums. Many arguments,fights,battles,and wars(including civil and world wars) have occurred because of intolerance of people's differences in some form or another.

It seems all about ideology,diversity,equality matters in general. Eris can be about "-isms"

Intolerance of diversity is the greatest problem on our planet.

Even consider its orbit. Uranus' orbit eccentricity is 0.044 405 586, but Eris' orbit eccentrity is 0.441 77. Therefore, Eris' orbit is more eccentric than Uranus' orbit. It would be logical to think that Eris more eccentric than Uranus in its astrology. Uranus orbital inclination is 0.772 556°, but Eris orbit is 44.187°. Eris' orbit is more inclined. Uranus' orbit mean anomaly is 142.955 717°,but Eris' orbit mean anomaly is 197.634 27°. Eris' orbit is more of an anomaly than Uranus. Conclusion of Eris being more of an anomaly than Uranus in regards to Astrological characteristics makes sense to me. Uranus travels on the ecliptic like all the other planets do. Eris travels far off the ecliptic plane,and is in the the constellation of Cetus which is not one of the zodiac constellations. Uranus doesn't have a highly elliptical orbit like Eris does. Unlike Uranus,Eris is a scattered disk object. Of course, Eris is far smaller than Uranus but larger than Pluto. Eris is a lot more divergent than Uranus can ever be. Eris doesn't fit in with the other planets just like the mythological Eris didn't fit in with the major Greek deities. Therefore it makes perfect sense for me to consider divergence and diversity can be keywords for Eris.

Pluto got to be classed as a planet for over 40 years, but larger Eris didn't get to be classed as a planet, and that mirrors how mythological Eris was a minor goddess who wasn't invited to the wedding of King Peleus and Thetis who were the parents of Achilles who fought in the Trojan War. She was being discriminated against because she was this bad nasty goddess who caused trouble. However, even the major gods/goddesses weren't all innocent. They were known for causing a lot of trouble and being nasty and cruel to mortals and to each other. How can Eris' exclusion for being a troublemaker be justified? Certainly,Ares,the God of War, was a nasty,cruel troublemaker,and he was included in the wedding. To me, Eris' throwing the golden apple not only exposed the petty vanities of the goddesses, but also showed how they were a bunch of hypocrites that weren't perfect. Paris awarded the golden apple to Aphrodite who was so promiscuous and didn't care about her own marriage vows with Hephaestus,getting it on with Ares as well as other gods and even mortals like Anchises(father of her son,Aeneas who fought in Trojan War,mythical ancestor of Rome),she promised Paris, the most beautiful woman in the world,Helen, but she was married to King Menelaus of Sparta. I would think that would make Aphrodite a troublemaker and just as dishonorable as Eris. She was held in high regard because of her great beauty,being the Goddess of Beauty and not just Love. Eris was the ugly goddess,and so didn't get a free ride like Aphrodite did. Of course, Aphrodite was far more attracted to the handsome vain,cruel,bloodthirsty Ares than to his ugly hardworking,humble,good-natured brother Hephaestus. To me, Eris can be seen as somebody who is "ugly" but who exposes the ugliness and hypocrisy of people who are "beautiful." To put it bluntly, Eris can be about showing a person who thinks his/her crap doesn't stink really does stink.
Eris doesn't seem to care about the status quo which is based on the majority of what people think is right and what is wrong just like rules and laws which aren't always fair and just. Eris seems to challenge the self-righteousness of others and expose their hypocrisy.

Because of the discovery of Eris, Pluto was demoted to minor planet just like Ceres had been demoted to minor planet. Now Ceres and Pluto are now equals for they are both assigned minor planet numbers and classed as dwarf planets. That's because of the discovery of Eris. Just think how Pluto/Hades and Ceres/Demeter shared time with Proserpina/Persephone in Roman/Greek mythology.
Proserpina/Persephone was away from Hades/Pluto for half of the year to be with her mother,Demeter/Ceres.

This is what Eris' co-discover said in reference to naming Eris when it was just nicknamed Xena.
"Interestingly, there are no actual rules for how to name a planet (presumably because no one expected there to be more). All of the other planets are named for Greek or Roman gods, so an obvious suggestion is to attempt to find such a name for the new planet. Unfortunately, most of the Greek or Roman god names (particularly those associated with creation, which tend to be the major gods) were used back when the first asteroids were being discovered. If a name is already taken by an asteroid, the IAU would not allow that name to be used again. One such particularly apt name would have been Persephone. In Greek mythology Persephone is the (forcibly abducted) wife of Hades (Roman Pluto) who spends six months each year underground close to Hades. The new planet is on an orbit that could be described in similar terms; half of the time it is in the vicinity of Pluto and half of the time much further away. Sadly, the name Persephone was used in 1895 as a name for the 399th known asteroid. The perhaps more appropriate Roman version of the name, Proserpina, was used even earlier for the 26th known asteroid. The same story can be told for almost any other Greek or Roman god of any consequence. One exception to this name depletion is the Roman god Vulcan (Greek Haphaestus), the god of fire. Astronomers have long reserved that term, however, for a once hypothetical (now known to be nonexistent) planet closer to the sun than Mercury (god of fire, near the sun, good name). We would not want to use such a name to describe such a cold body as our new planet!" www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/planetlila/

I checked out any Eris activity during the discovery of Uranus which could reflect that Eris' energy was also involved and that some of its characteristics were assigned to Uranus. Maybe Astrologers picked up on Eris' energy when it was considering Uranus' role in Astrology.

Uranus discovery chart:
March 13, 1781
Bath,England
12:00 PM..not sure of actual time

Mercury in 11'10 Aries
Eris in 13'54 Capricorn
(The Mercury square Eris could relate to perceptions linked to Eris that helped Uranus be discovered which lead to causing disorder in organization of perceptions of the old solar system just like Eris' discovery led to disorder in organization of perceptions of what constitutes a planet leading to Pluto being demoted from major planet to minor planet,and made equals with Ceres with both Pluto and Ceres being classed as dwarf planets. This aspect could be about divergent,diverse communications,mental activity,ideas.)

I checked to see if any connections to Geocentric Eris Nodes as well as Heliocentric Nodes

Venus in 2'21 Pisces
sextile North Eris Node in 2'21 Taurus
trine South Eris Node in 3'39 Scorpio
sextile/trine Heliocentric Nodes in 2'34 Taurus/Scorpio
This could be values,love,relationships connected to the collective issues of diversity,discord,equal rights
(so Uranus Discovery chart's Venus trines South Eris Node and sextiles the North Eris Node
note: The Eris North Node is sextile its dispositor,Venus...so a double whammy of Eris Node-Venus.)

I checked the Heliocentic Chart (After all..there is such thing as heliocentric Astrology...Philip Sedgwick has a book on it called Sun At The Center..I have that book too)

Heliocentric Mercury in 2'00 Cancer
sextile/trine Heliocentric Eris Nodes in 2'34 Scorpio
(This could be communications,mental activity,ideas that are connected to the collective issues of diversity,discord,equal rights)
Heliocentric Mercury is also the dispositor of the Heliocentric North Uranus Node in 12'50 Gemini

Heliocentric Mars in 13'26 Scorpio
sextile Heliocentric Eris in 12'44 Capricorn
(this could be activity that is diverse,divergent)

Heliocentric Eris also squares its own Perihelion/Aphelion in 11'50 Libra/Aries

I checked to see connections to Eris Perigree/Apogee axis

Perigree:The point nearest the Earth in the orbit of a planet or other celestial body.

Apogee: The point furthest from the Earth in the orbit of a planet or other celestial body.

Mercury is in 11'10 aries
Eris Apogee is in 11'40 aries
Eris Perigree is in 12'18 libra

So Mercury is aspected to not only Eris but Eris perigree/apogee axis and Heliocentric Mercury aspected to Heliocentric Eris Nodes suggesting that Uranus is connected to Eris and that astrologers were picking up on Erisian energy in Uranus and assigning some characteristics to Uranus that actually belong to Eris.

Could it be that the discovery of Uranus that ended up causing controversy,chaos in regards to view of the solar system which also ended up turning astrologers into not only minorities and outcasts from the academic,science fields but also created diversity,divergence in Astrology(for instance,some astrologers don't use the outerplanets and think that's the only right way to do Astrology) is linked to Eris? I believe that's the case. I believe that Eris could be co-ruler of Astrology along with Uranus.

another thing.......

if you check Eris' Perihelion/Aphelion axis and Heliocentric Uranus Nodes today

Perihelion - the point of a body's orbit that is closest to the Sun

Aphelion - the point of a body's orbit that is farthest from the Sun

The Eris Perihelion/Aphelion axis and Heliocentric Uranus Nodes are always trine each other. They are very much connected. That means that the energy of Eris and Uranus are connected to each other too.

If you check the day that Uranus was discovered....

Eris Perihelion/Aphelion axis in 11'50 Libra/Aries
trine Heliocentric Uranus Nodes in 12'50 Gemini/Sagittarius

I also find it interesting that Eris' North Node is in Taurus and Perihelion is in Libra, both signs ruled by Venus. This to me, can seem to mirror the mythological symbolism of the connection of Eris and Aphrodite with Aphrodite,born from the spot where Ouranos' detached genitals(severed by Cronos' sickle) were thrown in the sea, getting so much respect for her beauty and that she was one of the 12 major Greek deities(think of astronomical Venus' much larger size), but Eris, twin sister of Ares as well as daughter of Zeus and Hera didn't get to be to be included as a major Greek deity but was a minor deity(think of astronomical Eris' much smaller size) with her being ugly.

To me, it's like Eris demanding some equal treatment.

Eris saying "Let that materialistic bimbo rule Taurus, and let me rule Libra."

Of course, Eris' North Node and Perihelion placement mirrors the mythological symbolism of Eris' throwing the golden apple in the wedding with Aphrodite's claim, competition,and the award of it which led to discord,war,hatred,killing,death,revenge between the Greeks and Trojans. This seems to reflect the Nodal axis in Taurus/Scorpio and Perihelion/Aphelion axis in Libra/Aries.

There are clues to Eris characteristics from not only mythology and but also astronomy.

Astrologers don't need to depend on the name of an object to find meaning to it. They can use orbital and physical features for clues. Astronomically-oriented astrologers like Philip Sedgwick,Juan Revilla make that point.

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Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 29, 2010 05:13 AM         

the words
eristic
eristical

e·ris·tic (-rstk) also e·ris·ti·cal (-t-kl)
adj.
Given to or characterized by disputatious, often specious argument.
n.
1. One given to or expert in dispute or argument.
2. The art or practice of disputation and polemics.
[Greek eristikos, from erizein, to wrangle, quarrel, from eris, erid-, strife.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

eristic [ɛˈrɪstɪk]
adj also eristical
of, relating, or given to controversy or logical disputation, esp for its own sake
n
1. a person who engages in logical disputes; a controversialist
2. the art or practice of logical disputation, esp if specious
[from Greek eristikos, from erizein to wrangle, from eris discord]

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

eristic
1. a participant in an argument or controversy.
2. the art of disputation. — eristic, eristical, adj.
See also: Argumentation

-Ologies & -Isms. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.

ThesaurusLegend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun 1. eristic - a person who disputes; who is good at or enjoys controversy
controversialist, disputant
contester - someone who contests an outcome (of a race or an election etc.)
accuser - someone who imputes guilt or blame
arguer, debater - someone who engages in debate
denier - one who denies
hairsplitter - a disputant who makes unreasonably fine distinctions
logomach, logomachist - someone given to disputes over words
obstructer, obstructionist, obstructor, resister, thwarter - someone who systematically obstructs some action that others want to take
quarreler, quarreller - a disputant who quarrels
crusader, meliorist, reformer, reformist, social reformer - a disputant who advocates reform
2. eristic - the art of logical disputation (especially if specious)

Adj. 1. eristic - given to disputation for its own sake and often employing specious arguments
eristical
argumentative - given to or characterized by argument; "an argumentative discourse"; "argumentative to the point of being cantankerous"; "an intelligent but argumentative child"

Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. © 2003-2008 Princeton University, Farlex Inc.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/eristic

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 29, 2010 08:22 AM         

quote:

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Years ago when something similar happened with Lexx/Fayte and Mirandee, I thought they were acting like total bidtches (which I publicly said,) and ended up loving them and caring about them for life.

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posted July 29, 2010 10:03 AM         

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quote:

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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies with in us."
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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posted July 29, 2010 10:22 AM         

I FORGOT about the FB messages. I opened it again a second ago. Most of it was you telling me to take your last name off a post and me telling you I would do it but that you used to let me quote you with your full name all the time, and btw you owed me a public apology for how you've been treating me publicly. You said you were more kind and tolerant to me in the situation than you were with others and if I was your friend, why didn't I stand up for you and yell at the women you were fighting with, and you went on to say that you saw I said something to Xodian but didn't say anything about Node. You went on about Node for a while and I also had been surprised about the whole Node thing, also had no idea who Node was (other than vague memories of kind posts so I was surprised) and remembered not liking they way Node tore into you, you asked what angry pack of idiots tore into Node for a week to make him behave as HE did... so I answered your long response with:

"It means nothing when the average person behaves in an average way. I'm sad that you think I don't see you."

You didn't need to insinuate things and make me have to reference our messages.
You could have just said, "Rememember the FB letter? Read it again!" I totally forgot.

After I responded to the name thing you initially wrote to me about I added:

"My car is officially deceased today and they want to turn off my electric but I did get some money for a tax return (finally, after forgetting to sign it and waiting forever to get it fixed) so I should break even. Which sux because I thought for a minute I would have an extra $300 to put in the bank for the next emergency. Eh.
I got a cool new job though. Administrative Assistant to rental property manager at an apartment complex. I get to work with the tenants and I'm really nice to them.
Hope you are ok too. ♥ "

Since then, the brakes went out and I had them repaired and the yesterday I ran out of gas because the gauge is broken and the muffler fell off on the way home from work. I FORGOT ALL ABOUT REGISTERING MY DAUGHTER FOR SCHOOL!!!!!!!!! I HAVE A LOT ON MY MIND OTHER THAN THIS SAME OLD SONG AND DANCE OF YOURS. Be NICE to people and if they are not kind to you IGNORE them. Kill 'em with kindness until you are sure, not by surface appearances, but DEEP IN YOUR SOUL that you have done EVERYTHING you can to be loving and Christlike toward them and there is no reaching them without exhausting yourself. Then ignore them and let them learn from you long distance through your words if they are smart enough to do so. My words are ringing in my ears because I KNOW I have said the same thing to you time and time again.

I'm going to try to leave you alone for a while until you pull through this since you don't like anything I have to say anyway. Sorry I can't support you the way you would like. take care. ♥

posted July 29, 2010 10:38 AM         

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quote:

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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies with in us."
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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posted July 29, 2010 11:18 AM         

So on that note.....
They used me, lied about me, abused me later...and in retrospect most likely did much the same to him.....
I sincerely apologize to him belatedly.

PS. you said:

quote:

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Solane Star was the one I didn't like. Is she here now under another name? I haven't seen anyone who writes/behaves as she does.

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quote:

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Maybe she was just someone's alter troll ego. She certainly was over the top.

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posted July 29, 2010 11:37 AM         

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quote:

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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies with in us."
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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posted July 29, 2010 08:38 PM         

But it is a positive approach he is posting in Divine Diversities instead!!

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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted July 29, 2010 10:14 PM         

You're welcome!

Very cool aspect that you have too!

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 30, 2010 07:11 AM         

Mods are responsible for their forums and if material is posted that does not fall within the intent of that forum, it is at the mod's discretion whether or not to allow it to remain. Consider us your HR department; and I say that fully aware that most people don't actually like their HR department.

The particular threads in question, I am not familiar with. Is it wrong for a mod to close a thread that is generating negativity amongst members (as opposed to negativity over content)? I don't think so, but each situation is individual.

Valus, I don't actually know you well at all. I'm sorry you feel attacked. Perhaps others feel attacked by you, as well? This seems to me to be one of those situations that, being by nature dependent upon individual perspective, is not really capable of being resolved to everyone's pleasure. Not very helpful, I know, but honest, at least.

posted July 30, 2010 08:15 AM         

I don`t have any of the social sites. I only have dial up & it takes eons for the sites to load and navigating them is impossable. So, until DSL is affordable in my neck of the woods, it is the forums for me.

A Pisces puppy awwww.Sometimes understanding any pup is a headscratcher . Lots of love and a little discipline and he will be your bud for life.

Love to the three of you!!
juni

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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~