posted March 11, 2012 01:24 PM            

On the threat from Iran and President Ahmadinejad he says: "He gives charity to Jewish communities and he says one thing: he has a problem with the oppression of the Palestinian people. And the words "wipe out" he constantly says that Iran doesn't have a history and he is not talking about harming anybody he says that God will not allow this crime to happen. We concur with him that Jews are in danger because there is Zionism because it says in the Tora if you rebel against God, it will not be successful and there will be catastrophic results and Zionism has brought catastrophic results and it could be much worse."
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/talktojazeera/2012/03/2012310832216 69780.html#.T1yaGPFLysQ.facebook

posted March 14, 2012 11:08 PM            

How do you manage to find all the drivel on the internet?

The book of Esther is considered to be fiction by scholars? Which scholars? The one anti-Israel Rabbi this writer could find to stand with Iran's efforts to wipe Israel off the map of the world?

The Ancient nation of Israel consisted of 12 tribes. The modern nation of Israel is believed to be by most..to be decendents of the tribes of Juda and Levi.

If I were that little nut in Iran, I'd be thinking real hard about where and who the other 10, actually 11 tribes of Israel are today.

posted March 15, 2012 02:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by jwhop:
This doesn't even pass the giggle test katatonic.

How do you manage to find all the drivel on the internet?

The book of Esther is considered to be fiction by scholars? Which scholars? The one anti-Israel Rabbi this writer could find to stand with Iran's efforts to wipe Israel off the map of the world?

The Ancient nation of Israel consisted of 12 tribes. The modern nation of Israel is believed to be by most..to be decendents of the tribes of Juda and Levi.

If I were that little nut in Iran, I'd be thinking real hard about where and who the other 10, actually 11 tribes of Israel are today.

---

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posted March 15, 2012 02:25 PM            

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posted March 15, 2012 06:24 PM            

I notice you couldn't find any other Rabbis to back you...or your idiot article writer up that the Book of Esther is considered fiction by biblical scholars katatonic.

posted March 16, 2012 01:00 AM            

The book of Esther falls under the category of Writings, one of three parts of the Jewish canon.[11] Some modern scholars suggest the book of Esther to be a historical novella.[11][12] That is, while the events may not be historically accurate the book itself was written to tell a story of a time in history, in this case the origin of the Jewish holiday of Purim.[11]

There are a number of reasons some scholars question the historicity of the book of Esther. As noted by biblical scholar Michael D. Coogan, the book of Esther contains specific details regarding certain subject matter (for example, Persian rule) which are historically inaccurate. For example, Coogan discusses an apparent inaccuracy regarding the age of Esther's cousin (or, according to others, uncle) Mordecai.[11][12] In Esther 2:5–6, either Mordecai or his great-grandfather Kish is identified as having been exiled from Jerusalem to Babylon by King Nebuchadnezzar in 597 BCE: "Mordecai son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, who had been carried into exile from Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, among those taken captive with Jeconiah king of Judah." If this refers to Mordecai, he would have had to live over a century to have witnessed the events described in the Book of Esther.[11] However, the verse may be read as referring not to Mordecai's exile to Babylon, but to his great-grandfather Kish's exile.[13][14][15]

In her article “The Book of Esther and Ancient Storytelling,” biblical scholar Adele Berlin discusses the reasoning behind scholarly concern of the historicity of Esther. Much of this debate relates to the importance of distinguishing history and fiction within biblical texts, as Berlin argues, in order to gain a more accurate understanding of the history of the Israelite people.[16] Berlin quotes a series of scholars who suggest that the author of Esther did not mean for the book to be considered as a historical writing, but intentionally wrote it to be a historical novella.[17] The genre of novellas under which Esther falls was common during both the Persian and Hellenistic periods to which scholars have dated the book of Esther.[11][16]

There are certain elements of the book of Esther that are historically accurate. The story told in the book of Esther takes place during the rule of Ahasuerus, who has been identified as the fifth-century Persian king Xerxes (486-465). The author also displays an accurate knowledge of Persian customs and palaces.[14] However, according to Coogan, considerable historical inaccuracies remain throughout the text, supporting the view that the book of Esther is to be read as a historical novella which tells a story describing historical events but is not necessarily historical fact.[11]

posted March 16, 2012 01:05 AM            

Debate over historicity
The historical accuracy of the Book of Esther is disputed.

As early as the eighteenth century, the lack of corroboration of any of the details of the story of the Book of Esther with what was known of Persian history from classical sources led some scholars to doubt that the book was historically accurate. It was argued that the form of the story seems closer to that of a romance than a work of history, and that many of the events depicted therein are implausible and unlikely.

In the late nineteenth century, some critics developed the theory that the Book of Esther actually was a story out of Babylonian mythology, representing the triumph of the Babylonian deities Marduk and Ishtar over the deities of Elam. Although this view is not widely held by scholars today, it remains well known.

Traditionalists have fought back, arguing that Esther can be seen to derive from real history. To do this, a variety of theories have been derived. While some prefer to try to find substantiation for the traditional identification of Ahasuerus with Xerxes I, others have argued for different identifications.

For the last hundred and fifty years, most scholars have seen the Book of Esther as a work of fiction, although some have joined with traditionalists in attempting to find a historical basis for the story. Some Christian readers have also tried to see the story as a Christian allegory,...

http://www.christianity-guide.com/christianity/book_of_esther.htm

posted March 16, 2012 01:07 AM            

oh, and by the way, although netanyahu did earn a B.S. degree, he is no rabbi.

posted March 16, 2012 05:07 AM            

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posted March 17, 2012 12:14 AM            

I notice you say "most"...meaning more than half...of biblical scholars believe "Esther" is fiction. I notice too that you don't name a single one of them.

As for atheists! When are you going to learn that just because someone claims to be associated with a certain religion...or any religion at all...doesn't mean there's a word of truth in what they say.

Take the Revereeeeend Barry Lynn for instance. Supposedly a minister of God but really a poser hiding behind a so called degree. You know katatonic...Citizens United for Separation of Church and State. Just another leftist dork using words in the title of his organization which appear NO WHERE in the US Constitution.

Where is his church and who are members of his congregation? There's nothing to be revered about the Revereeeeend Barry Lynn...and a lot of other outright frauds calling themselves Revereeeeends....and/or Rabbis and/or Biblical Scholars.

I would be more inclined to believe someone who got their Divinity degree out of a Cracker Jacks box than some...many of these frauds.

"as for standing with iran, i believe the rabbi stands for mutual co-existence alongside iran, not for either side to "wipe the other off the face of the earth"...katatonic

This is such unadulterated crap that I'm totally surprised you would post these words.

It's not Israel which is threatening to wipe Iran off the face of the earth; it's the little nut and president of Iran who is threatening to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

But, Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu is no fool. The instant he believes Iran has enriched uranium to real weapons grade nuclear material is the day Israeli bombers will fly and "Bibi" will tell O'Bomber to stuff his objections where the sun don't shine...if he hasn't already.

Even so, the leaders of Israel...past and present have shown more patience with Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and Iran than I ever would.

posted March 17, 2012 01:36 AM            

esther has been considered by many scholars for many years to be an allegory with historical foundations, but not history. but even if it were factual netanyahu has used it to legitimize his own intentions - you don't seem to understand that when netanyahu uses a story about PERSIANS to justify his beliefs and policies re IRAN, he is ignoring the fact that iran is no longer persia, or anything like the persia of biblical times!

do you know the story? it seems a little farfetched for MODERN israel to look back to esther as vindication for unending hostility. especially since it was the PERSIAN KING who gave the jews permission to exact their revenge...a revenge that seems way beyond equal to the damage done them, IMO. 75000 persians slaughtered because one man tried to get jews executed?

i actually agree with ahdmanijad, israel should not be equated with "the jews". it is there ostensibly to give the jews a homeland, but the state of israel is not embraced by millions of jews, who consider she was put there as a sentinel and decoy for the western powers to keep a foothold in the region. and so it has proved; creating all sorts of nightmares by her very presence there. and by whose authority did the jews occupy that land? england's, after occupying it themselves...a recipe for unending feuding.

posted March 17, 2012 07:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by jwhop:
Katatonic, I can find more people who believe Bush is a "shape shifting reptilian space alien" than you can find true biblical scholars who believe the Book of Esther in the Old Testament is an early romance novel.

I notice you say "most"...meaning more than half...of biblical scholars believe "Esther" is fiction. I notice too that you don't name a single one of them.

As for atheists! When are you going to learn that just because someone claims to be associated with a certain religion...or any religion at all...doesn't mean there's a word of truth in what they say.

Take the Revereeeeend Barry Lynn for instance. Supposedly a minister of God but really a poser hiding behind a so called degree. You know katatonic...Citizens United for Separation of Church and State. Just another leftist dork using words in the title of his organization which appear NO WHERE in the US Constitution.

Where is his church and who are members of his congregation? There's nothing to be revered about the Revereeeeend Barry Lynn...and a lot of other outright frauds calling themselves Revereeeeends....and/or Rabbis and/or Biblical Scholars.

I would be more inclined to believe someone who got their Divinity degree out of a Cracker Jacks box than some...many of these frauds.

"as for standing with iran, i believe the rabbi stands for mutual co-existence alongside iran, not for either side to "wipe the other off the face of the earth"...katatonic

This is such unadulterated crap that I'm totally surprised you would post these words.

It's not Israel which is threatening to wipe Iran off the face of the earth; it's the little nut and president of Iran who is threatening to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

But, Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu is no fool. The instant he believes Iran has enriched uranium to real weapons grade nuclear material is the day Israeli bombers will fly and "Bibi" will tell O'Bomber to stuff his objections where the sun don't shine...if he hasn't already.

Even so, the leaders of Israel...past and present have shown more patience with Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and Iran than I ever would.

If anyone is ever stupid enough to tell me they're going to kill me or my family..or my nation...and I believe them; the only way they're ever leaving my presence is in a blood drenched body bag.

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Thank you Jwhop! I have no words or no jokes just thank you

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted March 17, 2012 11:37 AM            

though esther married the king under false pretenses (not admitting she was a jew) when the king found out he did not chastise her, but gave her permission to wreak vengeance on his own people. who is the harsh party?

posted March 18, 2012 12:19 AM            

You keep saying this katatonic but you fail to name those "many scholars". Who are they?

"but iran is NOT persia"....katatonic

Really katatonic? Iran IS NOT Persia katatonic?

Gee, all those people have been confused all these years! Iranians think they're Persians

The whole world thinks Iran IS Persia.

In fact, the word "Iran" means Persia...in Persian...not Farsi...as I understand it.

Sometime in the 1930s, the Persians, leaders and diplomats asked everyone to start calling the nation Iran.

Sure glad you straightened us all out about that katatonic.

posted March 18, 2012 01:05 AM            

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4ORmtZ2Go4

"pars and fars are synonymous.." fars being the arabic mispronunciation of pars"..

iran (or persia) in the time of the book of esther was a zoroastrian state peopled by persians...not muslim arabs. that persia is not the same as today's iran.

mexico today is not the same as mexico in the 18th century either

i'm sure there are people who think differently, who would be willing to actually discuss this...but if it's important to you to put me down, you go right ahead. i'm not interested in arguing about it and you apparently are interested in nothing else.

it is just possible, you know, that out of the 7 billion people in the world, there might be a few who disagree with you.

posted March 18, 2012 08:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by jwhop:
"esther has been considered by many scholars for many years to be an allegory with historical foundations, but not history."...katatonic

You keep saying this katatonic but you fail to name those "many scholars". Who are they?

"but iran is NOT persia"....katatonic

Really katatonic? Iran IS NOT Persia katatonic?

Gee, all those people have been confused all these years! Iranians think they're Persians

The whole world thinks Iran IS Persia.

In fact, the word "Iran" means Persia...in Persian...not Farsi...as I understand it.

Sometime in the 1930s, the Persians, leaders and diplomats asked everyone to start calling the nation Iran.

Sure glad you straightened us all out about that katatonic.

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A gentleman and a scholar *sigh*

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted March 18, 2012 11:04 AM            

jwhop i can't be bothered to explain the difference to you if you can't be bothered to read the posts that already do so.

more important to me is that netanyahu - though he appears to think the book is straight history (which is possible though it has been explained why that is unlikely) - doesn't recognize the difference between the two religions or peoples. so he uses this book as justification for his attitude towards a country that didn't exist in that time.

and funnily what the story tells is that the jews in persia slaughtered tens of thousands of persians..in revenge for one man's evil intentions. in other words, netanyahu thinks its okay for israel to obliterate iran because one man has a big macho mouth?