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Author Topic:   This is What I don't Understand
YoursTrulyAlways
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posted April 26, 2012 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There would suddenly be a $500 hot dog cart rebate program to incentivize hot dog cart ownership, but the program to hand out the $500 vouchers would cost $18,000 per cart.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted April 26, 2012 03:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Another example of arrogance.

The low calorie Presidency.
http://news.yahoo.com/president-michelle-obama-absolutely-not-190119031--abc-news-politics.html

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katatonic
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posted April 26, 2012 06:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i believe the breadlines during the depression of the 30s were just as long and depressing...if you could find one rather than starve. which many did. and lost everything they owned in the process. nobody wants to live in an american version of the ussr. no one is suggesting it.

however the continued insinuation that obama has no "experience in the world" is just more propaganda. and the insinuation that romney knows how to do anything apart from stash his money in OTHER countries while breaking up companies and unemploying people, equally rubbish.

there's a lot wrong with the obama administration, and a good deal of it is because he is forced to work with people whose NUMBER ONE PRIORITY has been, all along, to stymie his every move. yes he's a politician. politicians make deals.

but those who think government is the problem should try a WEEK in a country where there is no such problem. the reason we HAVE a government like ours is because we wanted a voice not a corporate or royal master.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted April 26, 2012 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Who owns a corporation? Let's take GE since its run by Jeff Imelt, who is Obama's personal friend. Who owns GE?

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Ami Anne
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posted April 26, 2012 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
There would suddenly be a $500 hot dog cart rebate program to incentivize hot dog cart ownership, but the program to hand out the $500 vouchers would cost $18,000 per cart.


LOLOL

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katatonic
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posted April 27, 2012 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sorry YTA, can't view the vid but i didn't see any arrogance in the text. why would mrs obama say anything other than she is confident he will be re-elected? is there arrogance in believing that there are other important things she could be doing besides covetting the position for herself? she has said all along that she is not so sure politics is the avenue through which social change is best effected. but since her husband IS president, she supports him as she can...

please explain?

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted April 27, 2012 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Only you guys can't see the irony.

Does she have qualifications remotely close to be acceptable as President? Well, neither does Barrack.

Let's see. Princeton and then Harvard Law. Big whoop.

Intellectual Property Associate at Sidley Austin, and then City of Chicago as assistant to Mayor. Then, a NFP for community youth development. Finally, VP for Community Affairs for University of Chicago Hospitals.

She has never been a major law firm partner (even Madame Hilary was partner at the infamous Rose Law Firm). Listen, I'm not saying Sidley Austin is not prestigious, but an Associate is not an executive position.

She has never been in a P&L making business (community affairs ain't business). She has never managed a balance sheet. Never held political office.

Contrast that to the Governor of the State of Alaska, which sits on the world's largest *proven* reserves of untapped crude oil and natural gas, an economy so critically vital to the rest of the USA that the country would tank missing one-quarter of energy resources. THAT woman you guys call unintelligent and unfit.

Another black woman in prominent office was the youngest Provost at Stanford and one of the youngest full professors ever, but you guys also called her unintelligent and even incompetent.

This flipping nobody with no qualifications, you guys even dare suggest that she run for President. Real interesting, ain't it?

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted April 27, 2012 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now you answer my question.

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katatonic
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posted April 27, 2012 04:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i have no idea who you are talking to with your "you guys" ... though i agree that sarah palin is unfit and part of the proof of that is that once in office she ran away, as she has done from many other responsibilities over the years.

did i say i thought michelle obama was qualified? i didn't even address that question! you said she was arrogant and i asked what was arrogant about saying she wouldn't run for office or that she supports her husband while he is in office but considers other avenues AT LEAST as influential and important...

as to the other black woman you mention, not sure who you mean though i have a suspicion; you seem to consider her qualifications relevant but not ms obama's (or mr obama's for that matter) but they don't strike me as particularly "executive" either.

and yes, hilary clinton had plenty of qualifications. unfortunately (for her)hilary was NEVER going to be ALLOWED by washington to step into the oval office chair, and i was told this BEFORE the primaries by someone with an inside ear...she is TOO qualified in many ways, and too dangerous in others.

it was someone in your vid/article who asked if she would run for president. who here ever suggested she should or was qualified? answer in short: NO ONE.

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Ami Anne
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posted April 27, 2012 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Only you guys can't see the irony.

Does she have qualifications remotely close to be acceptable as President? Well, neither does Barrack.

Let's see. Princeton and then Harvard Law. Big whoop.

Intellectual Property Associate at Sidley Austin, and then City of Chicago as assistant to Mayor. Then, a NFP for community youth development. Finally, VP for Community Affairs for University of Chicago Hospitals.

She has never been a major law firm partner (even Madame Hilary was partner at the infamous Rose Law Firm). Listen, I'm not saying Sidley Austin is not prestigious, but an Associate is not an executive position.

She has never been in a P&L making business (community affairs ain't business). She has never managed a balance sheet. Never held political office.

Contrast that to the Governor of the State of Alaska, which sits on the world's largest *proven* reserves of untapped crude oil and natural gas, an economy so critically vital to the rest of the USA that the country would tank missing one-quarter of energy resources. THAT woman you guys call unintelligent and unfit.

Another black woman in prominent office was the youngest Provost at Stanford and one of the youngest full professors ever, but you guys also called her unintelligent and even incompetent.

This flipping nobody with no qualifications, you guys even dare suggest that she run for President. Real interesting, ain't it?


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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted April 27, 2012 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Quoted from Stanford University
http://provost.stanford.edu/


"As the chief academic and chief budgetary officer of the University, the Provost is responsible for administering the academic program, including both instruction and research, and for the coordination of the administrative and support functions of the University with its academic purposes."

I believe that a university is in the business of educating, thus making the Provost the Chief Operating Officer, a distinctly executive position.


The extent of Michelle Obama's budgetary experience is how much she's about to spend at the grocery store. She has zero financial management experience.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted April 27, 2012 04:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And now, you shall answer my question.

Who owns a publicly listed corporation?

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Ami Anne
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posted April 27, 2012 04:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
And now, you shall answer my question.

Who owns a publicly listed corporation?


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katatonic
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posted April 27, 2012 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
speaking of arrogance, YTA, i am giving you the "new contender" award. the shareholders own the corporation of course. your agenda for asking being...? i won't put words in your mouth, 'kay?

and as ann romney has been at HUGE pains to point out lately, it is seriously naive to think that a woman who runs a household doesn't have any "experience" as an executive, financial advisor, and logistics expert! but unlike ann romney, michelle obama ALSO worked and helped bring home the bacon in her family, AS WELL as understanding the challenges that low income people face in the market.

once again, it is not anyone here, but people in YOUR POST who suggested ms obama might consider running. not me and not SHE either...

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted April 27, 2012 05:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ann Romney isn't seeking public office nor parading herself around like a two bit cheap Hollywood act in front of the media at every single opportunity. Neither did Laura Bush nor Barbara Bush nor Nancy Reagan.

Cindy McCain runs a multiple hundred million dollar revenue company and has an ego ten times smaller than Michelle Obama.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted April 27, 2012 05:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If the people own a publicly listed corporation, and the corporation is in the business to serve the interests of its shareholders, with senior management exercising a duty of care and a duty of loyalty, then how is it possible for a public corporation to oppress and not serve the will of the people?

For people who haven't invested their capital and/or savings in a corporation, then what right to they have to dictate how the corporation is run, especially when such intervention is against the best interest of corporate shareholders?

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katatonic
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posted April 27, 2012 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
okay, you have registered your hatred of ms obama. why you would expend so much energy on hating i don't know, but that's your prerogative!

i asked why you asked who owns GE/a corporation? since you were so arrogantly giving orders that it be answered do you intend to discuss it?

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Ami Anne
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posted April 27, 2012 05:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Ann Romney isn't seeking public office nor parading herself around like a two bit cheap Hollywood act in front of the media at every single opportunity. Neither did Laura Bush nor Barbara Bush nor Nancy Reagan.

Cindy McCain runs a multiple hundred million dollar revenue company and has an ego ten times smaller than Michelle Obama.


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juniperb
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posted April 27, 2012 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I totally understand what YAT and Ami Anne are saying about "experiencing" socialism, liberalism et al.

In Mystic circles there is a saying , to taste is to know.

Take a Durian fruit. You have read about it over and over. Watched peoples faces as they have eaten it, heard it described 10 ways from Sunday. Eventually your mind believes it has authority to say it is disgusted by Durian and will have heated discourses defending your disgust with those who disagree.

To taste is to know. You have not tasted the smelly feet fruit but you will still state how much it turns your stomach to those who have tasted it. Until you Taste, you will not know how a Durian tastes or what a real life of socialism is or any other ism.

Experience it and know.

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Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

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tautomer4314
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posted April 27, 2012 05:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tautomer4314     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have yet to see michelle obama come across as arogant. I actually find it quite interesting to see how everyone defines arrogance differently. Not everyone is going to see the same person as arrogant.

It's also quite interesting to see how everyone defines what is an acceptable credential different.

In the end it is just all very interesting to me.

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katatonic
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posted April 27, 2012 06:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i see your point juni. however i have yet to see any evidence that ami anne actually has experienced socialism, unless she has done the Kibbutz thing in israel? which she has never mentioned...she did mention working in an abortion clinic but i don't think that is a necessarily "socialist" invention! the right to decide such issues belongs with the woman who is going through them, it is hardly socialist to allow that right or for SAFE places to exist. as to those who squawk that it is socialist to ALLOW abortion, well, allowed or not it is going to happen. who is in a better position to decide than the mother whether it is necessary? if you are going to complain about "govt claiming to know what's best for us" that's a road that goes both ways. for most women it is a seriously difficult decision to have to make, but the conservative line appears to be that women just go around having abortions for the hell of it. not my experience!

i have lived many years in a country many here consider "socialist" because it has a lot of social PROGRAMS. however none of the supposed horrors listed here actually are true there. people still manage to make their fortunes...many having started them on unemployment (not filling that picture of the permanently willingly indolent benefit receiver at all) ... and wholeheartedly endorse the social programs at the same time.

i have not experienced the soviet union, but let's face it, the soviet is GONE. what is left is putin-as-king and a lot of up and coming countries who have retained SOME but not ALL of the social programs that were introduced a hundred years ago, without the dictatorship that went along with.

many so called conservatives are just reiterating what they hear rush say, calling "leftists" everything wrong with the world, etc, which is just so much more baloney. this morning i listened while rush affirmed that "leftists do this, that the other, and divide people into categories for the sake of division...conservatives don't do this, don't generalize, don't see the colour of a man's face.."

and if anyone can't see the generalization, irony and division in his description then you need a reading comprehension course asap...

just as YTA comes in here and accuses those liberals on the thread of arrogance because someone somewhere asked michelle obama if she would consider running for president; and makes many assumptions about what we do or do not think of this that or the other person.

i would appreciate if people here addressed me and others as individuals and not lump us in with some imaginary demographic out there somewhere.

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katatonic
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posted April 27, 2012 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
as to the conceit that because a publicly traded company has shareholders (people) and therefore cannot "go against the will of THE people", i would like to point out that a huge percentage of THE PEOPLE in this country can't afford a SINGLE SHARE of stock anywhere and thus are NOT represented by GE.

in fact there are many enterprising souls out there who would love to start their own company in competition with GE but apparently any device that can serve more than a few people's power needs is held to be "STEALING ELECTRICITY" from GE. how is their interest being accommodated? do you really think this is the "will of the people"? don't you think most of us would welcome free energy with open arms if it were ALLOWED? do you think GE has asked its shareholders to vote on such a topic? unlikely.

as when mitt romney tried to equate the shareholders with the PERSONHOOD of corporations, the point is being missed(or dodged). there are, it is true, a few giant corporations currently being disciplined by their shareholders, but until this administration came in, most shareholders were chiefly interested in the value of their shares, not in the practices that were creating that value. this is changing, but slowly...

i own no shares in GE. and how is the water board accommodating the will of the people when it bans citizens from COLLECTING RAINWATER? answer, it is NOT.

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Ami Anne
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posted April 27, 2012 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For me, the book Animal Farm stuck with me. I read it for the first time when I was in 6th grade. It was so wise. I have read it many, many time. The magic and more importantly, the wisdom is second to none. Human nature and any form of socialism does not work. Israel has some but Israel is unique in that Jews are a unique ethnic group. We feel as if we are family unlike any groups as God made us that way for His Purposes.We had to stay a unique people in spite of great persecution so we are different. Israel values her citizens in a way unlike any country, so she can't be included in a general discussion of socialism, in my opinion. There is a greater spiritual factor, here. I don't want to get into, as there is no point in the context of this discussion.

At any rate, socialism is against human nature. I didn't make it so.It just IS so. Animal Farm shows this in a sweet childlike way but that is always the best way.

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katatonic
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posted April 27, 2012 08:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
animal farm is a book. in other words, not direct experience. just as ayn rand's individualism is better on paper than in real life, i might add.

so are you saying that because bullying is a constant in human affairs we should just adjust to it? life in the land of the lord of the flies sound good to you?

and, ami anne, i caution you against generalizing (which you do repeatedly) about jews or any other group. i know many jews who think israel was and is a terrible idea and entity. my father was one of them but he was far from alone. i don't think israel is any better than any other country, it just has a better line of patter than some.

but if you want to argue that a theocracy is more valid than a democracy or secular republic, you have only to look as far as iran to see "spirituality" is not necessarily a recommendation for government. i would include israel in that statement. it leads to the denigration of non-complying citizens, as non jews have found in israel, and non muslims in iran.

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juniperb
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posted April 27, 2012 08:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
just as ayn rand's individualism is better on paper than in real life, i might add.

I second that!

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Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

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