posted April 25, 2012 04:30 PM            

I do understand how college kids would as this age group has little experience. I don't say that as a diss. I was liberal when I was this age, too.

I understand if someone is on government assistance, that he would want Obama. I don't understand the other groups, though.

I suppose the other group which might want Obama is trust fund level kind of money like John Kerry, Diane Finestein(sp)etc who have so much money that they are a unique class of people who profess liberalism but whose own wealth is not eroded by it due to corruption, knowing how to shelter it etc

If you are in groups other than these, why would you want Obama?

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posted April 25, 2012 06:06 PM            

Unfortunately, with the Republicans seeming to be more and more like the Taliban (their war on gays, women, separation of church and state, even one state where IIRC they discouraged the holding of hands--you know, attacking all the same freedoms they say the Taliban hates us for) I find them far more offensive and even frightening. Thus, Obama becomes the lesser evil (while I don't find Romney as scary as many others, having him as POTUS would give the more scary ones that much more power, and I expect him to pretty much continue with Obama's policies more often than not anyway).

posted April 25, 2012 06:46 PM            

I know people will not believe me, but no Republican can actually DO the things the press say they can like take away birth control. You can go to Wal mart and get it or go to a doctor for less than 100 dollars. There are a hundreds of low cost clinics for birth control. I worked at one, for a while.

I mean, it is so silly but people won't see it.
Anyway, I want any Republican who was in the primary MUCH more than I want Obama. It is not even about wanting Obama. He is insidiously changing the nature of the US to the point where we will not have our prior identity if we don't get rid of him. I fear he will steal the election, if he can't get it properly. I know he will try but can he do it? Kennedy did it, so it can and has been done.

At any rate, I have no power except one vote.

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posted April 25, 2012 09:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
Personally I think Obama is too good for America. We don't deserve him as President. I do think he's President for a reason though. And chances look good that he'll continue to be President for a while. But I think he's better than this. He deserves so much more than the crap handed to him by the pundits and critics, elitist democrats and the radical politicians on the far right. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/06/obama-is-too-g ood-for-us-charles-fried-on-the-debt-fiasco.html

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You are a student, Joan. Am I right? If you have never lived as a real adult, with all due respect, you cannot begin to understand politics.

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posted April 25, 2012 09:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
Obama has extremely protectionist policies, he keeps trying to implement "Buy American" because he's a socialist. As a Canadian I shouldn't like him because this hurts our manufacturing. Heck, he even wants to charge us for crossing the American border!

So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't understand why a business owner wouldn't like him, unless they're the kind that likes government incentives for outsourcing.

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He IS a socialist. Whatever he does to other countries is one thing. He will destroy us if he is not removed from office imho.

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posted April 25, 2012 10:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
The funny part is I've never been a liberal before, and I've never been in tune with liberal ideology. I have always been a strong conservative kid, although I attended one of the most liberal colleges in the country. Go figure. I searched for the only politically conservative professor in the whole university as my adviser and mentor.

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I was the biggest liberal. I even WORKED at an abortion clinic. I understand this stuff--all across the board.

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posted April 26, 2012 10:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
I was in Moscow at the end of 1991, before the 1993 uprising and the downfall of socialism. I saw the inner workings of socialism and the politburo with my own eyes while wearing the shoes of a market capitalist. I've stood in a Soviet bread line speaking with students from Moscow State University, both wearing jeans and as a Westerner in a suit. Two hours for a loaf of bread. That was all I needed to reaffirm my strong political and economic convictions.

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These blind people who cheer Obama on should take a sabbatical to the Soviet Union or any of the other countries which are going down based on Obama like policies.

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posted April 26, 2012 11:38 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
These blind people who cheer Obama on should take a sabbatical to the Soviet Union or any of the other countries which are going down based on Obama like policies.

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The highest personal income tax rate, highest capital gains tax bracket and highest corporate income tax before capital investment deductions in PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA, a residual COMMUNIST country, is LOWER than that of the United States, and that is BEFORE the Buffett tax China has LESS regulation and SMALLER bureaucracy for financial industry regulation

There goes the market economy

posted April 26, 2012 11:42 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:

The highest personal income tax rate, highest capital gains tax bracket and highest corporate income tax before capital investment deductions in PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA, a residual COMMUNIST country, is [b]LOWER than that of the United States, and that is BEFORE the Buffett tax China has LESS regulation and SMALLER bureaucracy for financial industry regulation

There goes the market economy

I hear our fearless leader takes his political philosophy cues from the greatest flop Mao Tse Tung [/B]

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The Quote meister is back in business

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posted April 26, 2012 02:34 PM            

And why should I vote for Romney just because I don't like Obama? He's just business as usual as Obama was biz as usual. Everything I don't like about Obama I'm sure will be continued by Romney. Now Ron Paul at least would not be biz as usual and would actually attempt to undo some of Obama's policies which I dislike. And while I wouldn't be willing to vote for him in 2012, I would've voted for him in 2008, and 2016 is a possibility assuming the other Republicans either change their tune and their actions or suffer serious losses as a result of their current actions. Still, I see the entire political process in the USA as broken, and Mencken was all too accurate in cynically describing it.

Oh, yes, IIRC you say you get all your info from right wing radio talk shows. If that's the case then you're being given a very selective view meant to control you more than inform you. That's not to say there aren't plenty of sources that manipulate people for Obama and the like as well, but you have to understand that what you're getting isn't objective and thus all too many people are aware of things you're not (or are aware that some things you likely believe just isn't so), as well as not being aware of things that are true (that you very well might be), and thus think and act accordingly. If you want to understand how people think differently from you then you need to examine their info (and misinfo), and then you need to try to see things from outside your own reality tunnel. Of course it's much easier to see how other people are being fooled than it is to see how you personally are being fooled, especially as there are irrational psychological forces at work in anyone with strong political identities (example).

posted April 26, 2012 02:42 PM            

I'm not asking you to vote for Romney

posted April 26, 2012 02:49 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
Personally I think Obama is too good for America. We don't deserve him as President

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I really don't get why Obama would be "too good" for us when he's corrupt, caters to special interests, gives cushy government jobs to fundraisers who aren't qualified for the job, and is basically a typical politician.

He has his good points, and I think that he actually means well (though he takes care of himself first, and the country after, though I suppose that's part of the charm of American individualism), but he has some serious flaws, too. The ACLU can share many of them, some of them broken promises (and no, it wasn't because Republicans monkeywrenched him, they've either helped him or at least stood out of his way and offering no criticism on the issues I'm thinking of, with the notable exception of Ron Paul in some cases). And whereas Bush had people waterboarded simply out of sheer suspicion of terrorism (heck, there are horror stories of innocents being disappeared by our government back then to be handed over to other governments to be tortured, or sodomized by our CIA, simply because their name was too similar to someone they were after whom they believed had ties to terrorist organizations, though even then they were never American citizens), yet Obama has pushed that further to where even American citizens can be put on kill lists without oversight or accountability, and his 2012 NDAA has finally realized the fears that were voice when the USAPATRIOT Act was first passed that it will include Americans as potential terrorists and acting more like a fascist state than a free country (though few seem to care anymore, besides the ACLU of course), which unless challenged in the near future could lead America to a terrifying state (I don't think he'll be the one to bring it about, but he'll make it possible for someone else to take the reins where he left off and turn America into a Fascist state). His use of drones are horrific as well with scores (by the most conservative of estimates) of collateral damage simply to kill one suspected member they're after (IOW, making enemies faster than they can kill them, and many of those killed are children).

posted April 26, 2012 02:52 PM            

quote:

---

I really don't get why Obama would be "too good" for us when he's corrupt, caters to special interests, gives cushy government jobs to fundraisers who aren't qualified for the job, and is basically a typical politician.

---

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posted April 26, 2012 02:58 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
PixieJane,

I'm not asking you to vote for Romney

Obama and Alternate Obama. Business as usual.

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Romney has to be better than Obama. Obama knows less about business than someone who operates a hot dog stand on the street

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posted April 26, 2012 03:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Romney has to be better than Obama. Obama knows less about business than someone who operates a hot dog stand on the street.

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That would be an insult to the hot dog stand street vendor!

He would create the first Chapter 7 liquidating bankruptcy of a street hot dog vending cart.

posted April 26, 2012 03:11 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
I was in Moscow at the end of 1991, before the 1993 uprising and the downfall of socialism. I saw the inner workings of socialism and the politburo with my own eyes while wearing the shoes of a market capitalist. I've stood in a Soviet bread line speaking with students from Moscow State University, both wearing jeans and as a Westerner in a suit. Two hours for a loaf of bread. That was all I needed to reaffirm my strong political and economic convictions.

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My understanding, based on Russians I've spoken to, is much of those long lines and such were grossly exaggerated. Given that they were highly educated, had vacation homes called dachas (but then so many of them had these), and the like I suppose they may have had the right connections to bypass that whereas others (such as university students, at least those not at a Soviet version of an Ivy League) did not.

In any case I wouldn't compare them to liberals. They're not only extremely socially conservative (especially hostile toward gays, feminism, etc, a hostility which neither liberals nor Obama share), but they practiced mandatory military service for males (with some brutal hazing), and have a barbaric justice system with harsh sentencing and support of police brutality and enforcement, defendants who sometimes even spend their trials in a cage before they're sentenced (without a jury). (Ok, the Obama administration MAY be ok with America going down this road, but not liberals.) Their unions were a joke (basically just the government making sure everyone did what they were supposed to--or more accurately, "we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us"--and whenever a REAL union tried to form it was brutally crushed) and in their quest to industrialize they didn't hesitate to nightmarishly pollute and destroy the environment. The media was tightly controlled and again reflected their socially conservative (and often very nationalistic) culture. In any case, I don't associate that with liberalism, not even the right of center Democrats (they're called Left in the USA simply because they're not as far right as Republicans, but compared to the rest of the world they're right of center).

I can see your point about comparing their economy to capitalist countries though it should be kept in mind they were heavily boycotted by capitalist countries so that there were a lot of forces pushing them to fail rather than they were failing strictly on their own merits. Also, little has change since Communism collapsed, save there's a lot more poverty, crime, and sickness than before (though interesting that most don't want a return of the "good old days" despite this). And not all Communist countries were the same (just as not all capitalist countries are). A friend of mine just got back from visiting Vietnam and from the sound of it he didn't want for anything and had internet connection nearly the entire time (though now I'm inspired to ask him if he had to wait in long lines...)

posted April 26, 2012 03:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PixieJane:
I really don't get why Obama would be "too good" for us when he's corrupt, caters to special interests, gives cushy government jobs to fundraisers who aren't qualified for the job, and is basically a typical politician.

---

We'll just agree to disagree Pixie. I don't deny that he's a typical politician. I'm measuring the man, not the image when I state he's too good for our country. Personally, I think he should run while he can, and do something more fulfilling with his life that caters to his global humanitarian interests.

posted April 26, 2012 03:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PixieJane:
My understanding, based on Russians I've spoken to, is much of those long lines and such were grossly exaggerated. Given that they were highly educated, had vacation homes called dachas.

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Oh I stayed at a dacha and had residence in the Lenin Hills (aka Sparrow Hills, as it is called now). I stayed in Moscow for six months while traveling across Siberia, Central Asia, Ukraine and the rest of the Baltics.

I stood in those same long lines myself in multiple former Soviet Republics, and I don't look any different from a Central Asian Kazakh or Krygyz, except that I don't speak the language. I have also stood in those same lines as a Westerner wearing a designer suits. I have seen for myself how broke people could be.

I rode around in Ladas and Moskvitzs, as much as I did in Chaikas, Zils and Mercedeses.

posted April 26, 2012 03:40 PM            

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