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Author
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Topic: The Burden Of Proof
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tautomer4314
Knowflake Posts: 652
From: Oregon
Registered: Dec 2011
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posted May 02, 2012 03:14 AM
  
Making this thread to open this for a bit of discussion, and also sort of as a reminder/PSA about what the burden of proof is, and how it applies to debates here. Remember, if someone can not support and back up their claim. Or, if they flat out refuse to, then their statements are invalid and can be discarded until they fulfill their burden of proof. This video will explain this: The Burden of Proof
Thoughts, opinions? Discuss!
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It's All Elemental
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Aquacheeka
Knowflake Posts: 922
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted May 02, 2012 09:53 AM
I agree, I find it immensely irritating when people don't provide any evidence or support for their argument (and I use that term loosely), they just say, "Oh, you wouldn't understand it," or, "You've obviously never been in my position or you wouldn't think that way."Why don't these people just concede that there is no logical or factual basis for their position, they just go with "their gut" or the prevailing winds where they live? IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 3921
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 02, 2012 09:59 AM
Please do keep in mind it is an open and public forum and all posters who follow the guidelings are welcome here. We will refrain from being so hard nosed as to call their sharing here invalid  I DO "agree" burden of proof is the most acceptable way to have a solid factual/intelligent discussion but not the only way. ------------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~ IP: Logged |
jwhop
Knowflake Posts: 5072
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 02, 2012 10:54 AM
tautomer4314, Aquacheeka, et al, could I be perfectly candid with you?You do not set posting policy here on this forum..or any other on LindaLand. My pet peeve is that some here post propaganda from sources who have their heads so far up their rectums they'll never see the light...and offer that BS up as "proof" to support their indefensible positions. However, unlike you, I don't attempt to usurp Randall's authority and control over his property...by attempting to establish "policy".
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tautomer4314
Knowflake Posts: 652
From: Oregon
Registered: Dec 2011
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posted May 02, 2012 11:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
Please do keep in mind it is an open and public forum and all posters who follow the guidelings are welcome here. We will refrain from being so hard nosed as to call their sharing here invalid I DO "agree" burden of proof is the most acceptable way to have a solid factual/intelligent discussion but not the only way.
Oh, I'm not trying to imply this has to be a rule! It simply just makes discussions more substansive, and I wondered if not everyone has heard of this before. That and it is open for discussion because not everyone agrees with the burden of proof. Why they don't is beyond be, but nevertheless it is there. quote:
Originally posted by jwhop:
tautomer4314, Aquacheeka, et al, could I be perfectly candid with you?You do not set posting policy here on this forum..or any other on LindaLand. My pet peeve is that some here post propaganda from sources who have their heads so far up their rectums they'll never see the light...and offer that BS up as "proof" to support their indefensible positions. However, unlike you, I don't attempt to usurp Randall's authority and control over his property...by attempting to establish "policy".
...yeesh! See what I said above. JWhop, people could say the exact same thing about some (not all of course) of the sources that you cite. When it comes to politics the burden of proof is often debatable based on what the "proof" is. Debating with you is a lost cause anyway, because you never budge an inch from your views. At least, it seems that way. Again, as I said before you being on the nasty side of things makes me largely not respect you. This style of posting is no different from that. ------------------
It's All Elemental
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Aquacheeka
Knowflake Posts: 922
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted May 02, 2012 12:06 PM
tautomer4314 - well said. Since when is offering an opinion "trying to dictate policy?" Reading comprehension not intact or what?People are welcome to not provide sources or info for their stance, but they should be aware that their argument will be substantially less convincing that way and it's difficult to respect their position, that's all. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 31596
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 02, 2012 12:06 PM
edit------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
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NativelyJoan
Knowflake Posts: 1038
From: Boston
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted May 02, 2012 12:13 PM
Thanks for bringing this up Tautomer. I'm not really sure why people get SooOOooOO defensive about supporting their assertions. Their quick to state them but not so quick to back up those claims. Which clearly makes one wonder in the case of political discussions...If you claim the sky is falling, it's kinda necessary to post proof. We can't trust the opinion of just one individual in this subjective world. It's why we don't live in a dictatorship here in the US. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 31596
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 02, 2012 12:32 PM
Jwhop
Many of the Liberals on here are kids--just graduated college in their first job(s) or still in graduate school etc. They have little real world experience with this Kumbya philosophy they hold so dear. ------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
IP: Logged |
ghanima81
Moderator Posts: 829
From: Maine
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 02, 2012 12:41 PM
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Ami, I would think that you of anyone would possibly understand that a persons age and experience level does not dictate their ability to comprehend concepts. Am I wrong here? Wow. That's so judgmental coming from a Mod. Dissapointed. IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 3921
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 02, 2012 12:57 PM
quote:
oh, I'm not trying to imply this has to be a rule! It simply just makes discussions more substansive, and I wondered if not everyone has heard of this before. That and it is open for discussion because not everyone agrees with the burden of proof. Why they don't is beyond be, but nevertheless it is there.
Noted and understood, do you understand my post? ------------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~ IP: Logged |
NativelyJoan
Knowflake Posts: 1038
From: Boston
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted May 02, 2012 12:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ghanima81:
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Ami, I would think that you of anyone would possibly understand that a persons age and experience level does not dictate their ability to comprehend concepts. Am I wrong here? Wow. That's so judgmental coming from a Mod. Dissapointed.
Preach! IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 3921
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 02, 2012 01:04 PM
Anyone who doesn`t approve of this being a public forum with opinions shared, rather with Wisdom, facts or nothing you consider of substance have options.Write the webmaster @ linda-goodman.com and offer your changes/ideas/opinions/facts. If he deems it right to change the open stance on posts here, I will moderate accordingly. Ignore those posts you do not value. Find another website that offers postings and posters that validate your specifications. In the intriem, differing posts are considered to be of a value, if only to the poster. *edited to say "that follow guidelines" ^
Thanks! ------------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~ IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 31596
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 02, 2012 01:07 PM
Mods can have opinions unless I died and was made a saint. *Looks around* I don't see a halo so I guess I am just a person like everyone else  ------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
IP: Logged |
tautomer4314
Knowflake Posts: 652
From: Oregon
Registered: Dec 2011
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posted May 02, 2012 01:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
Noted and understood, do you understand my post?
Yes. People can say and post (within the rules) what ever they want. If they don't stick to formal styles of debate and discussion then it's fine. It's completely impractical to moderate that way anyway. It's a disucssion board, not a debate board. No debate board that I know if is like that way anyway. That being said, I brought this up because this is something to keep in mind during debate-like topics. Doing this has the potential to minimize trivial bickering. You don't have to follow the rules of burden of proof. However, everyone should be aware that if someone violates it, then their comments can and should be dismissed as erroneous. That latter part is simply my opinion, and it is up to them whether or not they choose to follow that. ------------------
It's All Elemental
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ghanima81
Moderator Posts: 829
From: Maine
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 02, 2012 01:23 PM
I agree that when something is stated as "opinion", then it should be taken as that. When somebody cites an "opinion" as if it were a fact, they should certainly be expected to hear some backlash. If they ARE stating facts, something to back it up will make it more valid for debates sake and less likely that the "debate" will turn personal. Which of course happens here ALL THE TIME. Goddess Bless you, juni, for your ability to tolerate it. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 31596
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 02, 2012 01:29 PM
Well, people need to tolerate people with differences. That is called maturity  ------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
IP: Logged |
ghanima81
Moderator Posts: 829
From: Maine
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 02, 2012 01:30 PM
Actually, you don't have to be mature to respect differences. You simply need to be raised to view everyone as EQUAL. This is found in CHILDREN. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 31596
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 02, 2012 01:36 PM
Everyone can be EQUAL to do his personal best, not EXPECT the Government to give him a hand out ------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
IP: Logged |
ghanima81
Moderator Posts: 829
From: Maine
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 02, 2012 01:40 PM
 I have no idea what that response has to do with anything being said in this thread. Maybe you meant to put that somewhere else? IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 31596
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 02, 2012 01:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ghanima81:
I have no idea what that response has to do with anything being said in this thread. Maybe you meant to put that somewhere else?
Well, don't go insulting people and then complain that the thread go de-railed IP: Logged |
tautomer4314
Knowflake Posts: 652
From: Oregon
Registered: Dec 2011
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posted May 02, 2012 01:43 PM
I ask that this thread of mine please remain on topic, and not to allow this to devolve into a sniping match.------------------
It's All Elemental
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My Chart if relevant IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 31596
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 02, 2012 01:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by tautomer4314:
I ask that this thread of mine please remain on topic, and not to allow this to devolve into a sniping match.
Good! You are right, Tautomer. I really have worthwhile things I have to be doing. Thanks for stepping in xx ------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
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juniperb
Moderator Posts: 3921
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 02, 2012 01:50 PM
I`ll second that Tautomer. quote:
I agree that when something is stated as "opinion", then it should be taken as that. When somebody cites an "opinion" as if it were a fact, they should certainly be expected to hear some backlash. If they ARE stating facts, something to back it up will make it more valid for debates sake and less likely that the "debate" will turn personal.
Indeed ghani! ------------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~ IP: Logged |
ghanima81
Moderator Posts: 829
From: Maine
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 02, 2012 02:15 PM
Is this the part where I say something cryptic and post a smilie? Just wondering. As to the OP, I've already stated my OPINION on that. When you keep to a debate atmosphere backed up by evidence, personal attacks stay out of it. IP: Logged |
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