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katatonic
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posted May 04, 2012 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i can't find it on snopes...don't know if it is true or panic-hoax...
http://www.readersupportednews.org/news-section2/344-208/11006-russia-stunned-after-japanese-plan-to-evacuate-40-million-revealed

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katatonic
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posted May 04, 2012 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
perhaps there are some things that supercede politics? has anyone else SEEN THIS? what do you think?

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juniperb
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posted May 04, 2012 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry kat, I was sidetracked cackling at the Harry B post.

I read your article but haven`t tried to research it yet. I can`t fathom China taking in the Japanese.

quote:
Disturbingly, the desperate situation facing Japan is, also, facing the United States as Russian military observers overflying the US this week as part of the Open Skies Treaty are reporting unprecedented amounts of radiation in the Western regions of that country, a finding that was further confirmed by scientists with the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute who have confirmed that a wave of highly radioactive waste is headed directly for the US west coast.

Something smells a little fishy there too.

I`ll try to find something else to tie it to.
Thanks!

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juniperb
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posted May 04, 2012 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
no laughing kat but his is the only source I`ve come across that mentions it.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread831265/pg1

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Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

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katatonic
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posted May 04, 2012 05:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
woods hole is in martha's vineyard...are they operating nationally now?

well ats WOULD, but if it doesn't show elsewhere i wouldn't credit it. still, that #4 reactor IS still a major liability. no news so far from japanese in laws regarding this, but they have continued to be unflappable throughout this unfolding story, and so far they're not running away.

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juniperb
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posted May 04, 2012 05:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
how did you ever come across that link/story in the first place?

woods hole is in martha's vineyard...are they operating nationally now?

not likely ey.
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juniperb
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posted May 04, 2012 05:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I`ll ask shura as she bumps into strange articles & sites.

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juniperb
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posted May 05, 2012 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
shura has heard of it but doesn`t have a cleaner source either.

I did find these frightening regarding the reactors.

quote:
Japanese Ambassador Murata is joining in the growing chorus which include US Senators who are warning the he problem at Fukushima nuclear reactor 4 is the single greatest short-term threat to humanity and has the potential to destroy our world and civilization as we know it.

The Ambassador puts it very bluntly saying the warnings about reactor 4s threat to end human civilization are no exaggeration.

http://www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=149876

quote:
Senator Wyden just returned from a tour of the cleanup, or lack their of, in Japan following last yearfs Fukushima nuclear disaster.

Upon return he went on television to raise the alarm that Fukushima disaster is by no means over and it has the potential become exponentially worse at any given moment.

Moreover, he is sounding the alarm that the US can no longer continue to duck the real and present threat such and impending disaster will occur here in the United States, just as it has in Russia and in Japan, unless we stop ducking the issue and act quickly to prevent it.

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2012/04/17/senator-sounds-urgent-ala rm-imminent-nuclear-disaster-120611/

]

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Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

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katatonic
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posted May 05, 2012 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i got it from a FB friend. awaiting news from japanese inlaws whether they corroborate any of this or not. though, being japanese, they have been very upbeat and self-contained about this, showing an unperturbed front at least, even to their own daughter...
http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-r eleases/after-tour-of-fukushima-nuclear-power-station-wyden-says-situation-worse-than-reported
http://www.ci.florence.or.us/community/senator-wyden-tsunami-debris-potential-threat-oregon-coast

senator wyden sounds (reasonably) concerned but no info about coming evacuations on a large scale there.

considering our FDA doesn't think we need to know about gmos in our food i wonder how much we can believe their official estimates of damage done to the pacific and the continental US food crops and people?

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juniperb
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posted May 05, 2012 01:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
senator wyden sounds (reasonably) concerned but no info about coming evacuations on a large scale there.

Right, the articles point in that direction but no direct mention.

Still, for China to offer haven, makes me scratch my head.
Let me know what in-laws say about an evac.

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Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

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katatonic
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posted May 05, 2012 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
in laws say nothing whatsoever. no indication that they are concerned! then again the japanese ethos would not whine about the situation, probably even to family, if only not to alarm folks who could do nothing about it. they are not wanting to emigrate, not talking about radiation or anything else you might expect under the circumstances.

that said continuing release from #4 is pretty much corroborated by all parties ... just not how much, how widespread, etc etc.

considering that we have plenty of plants of our own standing on faults in precarious places, it would be nice to think someone here cared about them, but i recently heard that most of our dinosaurs are getting their licenses renewed with no eye to retrofitting or improvement despite their advanced years/old models.

however the san onofre plant near san diego (i think, so. cal anyway) was recently shut down due to dodgy conditions and apparently will stay shut until someone figures out what to do about it. which does not mean it is safe and secured!

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katatonic
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posted May 06, 2012 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
some actual news though not about evacuation!
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/nuclear-reaction/54-reactors-down-japan-breaks-free-of-nuclear/blog/40238/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social_network&utm_t erm=05_04_12_1020&utm_campaign=climate

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katatonic
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posted May 06, 2012 06:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
for those who can't manage links...japan has shut down ALL of its nuclear reactors as of tuesday last. should be quite interesting to see how they "slide back into the dark ages" or NOT...

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katatonic
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posted May 06, 2012 07:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
when i see stories like this, written by a doctor and expert in the nuclear field, i want to ask, what is the cost of deregulating energy production? i keep hearing people say "drill" "build nuclear plants" "screw spending my money on "clean" energy"... but

https://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/02/25-4

Fukushima Worse Than Chernobyl
by Janette Sherman and Joseph J. Mangano
There is good news and bad news: The good news is that 11 months after the Fukushima meltdown, thousands of Japanese marched in the streets to protest the continuing operation of nuclear power plants in their country, and urged a shift to renewable energy. Some 250,000 people signed petitions to close the reactors in the Tokyo area. Meanwhile in the U.S. the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) approved the building of two new nuclear power plants in Georgia.


Masses of Japanese rallied in Tokyo on Feb. 11. Even larger demonstrations are planned for March 11, the first anniversary of the Fukushima meltdown.The investigative reporter, Karl Grossman, for his program Envirovideo, interviewed Dr. Sherman on March 5, 2011, and she said that it was just a matter of time before we have another nuclear meltdown. Less than a week later, on March 11, following the earthquake and tsunami in Japan, Fukushima Daiichi did just that. On March 19, Professor Alexey Yablokov, the senior author of Chernobyl Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment, arrived on a previously planned visit to Washington, D.C. In a series of radio and TV interviews, we opined, even that early, it appeared that Fukushima was worse than Chernobyl the latter continuing to harm 25 years later.

On March 25, before Professor Yablokov flew to Seattle for a series of talks, Matt Wald of the New York Times interviewed him. In two follow-up emails asking Wald what he planned to do with the interview, Wald wrote on Nov. 7: I have not published anything on that conversation and Im not sure I will I dont think the thrust of the book has achieved sufficient scientific traction, and I dont believe theres evidence that human exposures from Fukushima approach those of Chernobyl.

The stance of the New York Times is not surprising, as a bastion of corporatism, so well explained in Chris Hedges book: Death of the Liberal Class. Selective blackouts such as this must push citizens to educate themselves if we do not understand the many adverse effects caused by Chernobyl, how can we prepare for and document the ones surely resulting from Fukushima. If we dont know the history of Chernobyl, how can we prevent yet more nuclear meltdowns?

Xenon-133 from Fukushima fallout was detected in the United States just four days after the earthquake, tsunami and meltdowns, and additional isotope deposition was reported that week. Some samples of radioactivity in precipitation, air, water and milk, taken by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) showed levels hundreds of times above normal; however, the EPA, in its wisdom, stopped collecting weekly samples, reverting to quarterly ones.

There is no longer any doubt that radioisotopes in concert with industrial chemicals have caused the epidemic increase in childhood and adult cancer that has occurred since World War II.The U.S. Center for Disease Control (CDC) reported weekly deaths by age in 122 cities, which represents about 25 to 35 percent of the population total. Deaths rose 4.46 percent from 2010 to 2011 in the 14 weeks after the arrival of Japanese fallout, compared with a 2.34 percent increase in the prior 14 weeks. The number of infant deaths after Fukushima rose 1.80 percent, compared with a previous 8.37 percent decrease. Projecting these figures for the entire United States yields 13,983 total deaths and 822 infant deaths in excess of the expected numbers. An updated analysis using the entire year 2011 raised the excess deaths to 21,851.

By contrast to nuclear tests that prolong the release of radioisotopes by dispersion into the stratosphere, emissions from nuclear power plants are dispersed at low atmospheric levels, brought down by rain and snow in a matter of days to weeks. Every nuclear power plant releases a number of isotopes, whether it is operating normally or melting down. These include Sr-90, Cs-137, I-131, argon, krypton, xenon and barium, taken up by animals, plants and humans.

The epidemic increase in childhood and adult cancer has occurred since World War II, when both chemical and radiological pollution spread over the world. Half a century later, there is no longer any doubt that radioisotopes in concert with industrial chemicals have caused this epidemic.

All forms of cancer can be induced by radiation. The incidence increases with cumulative dose, and younger aged individuals human, animals and plants alike are more sensitive to ionizing radiation than adults. It is not only cancer that is of concern, but genetic damage, birth defects, over-all health and loss of intellectual capacity, the latter absolutely essential for survival. In Belarus, only 20 percent of children are considered well by official standards since the Chernobyl catastrophe.

A unique study of Norwegian children, exposed early before birth to low-level Chernobyl fallout, demonstrated lower intellectual capacity than a comparable group not exposed.

In Belarus, only 20 percent of children are considered well by official standards since the Chernobyl catastrophe.After the Chernobyl meltdown, not all biological systems were studied, but of those that were wild and domestic animals, birds, fish, plants, fungi, bacteria, viruses, humans, etc. all were altered, many irreversibly. Genetic damage and reduced viability across species continues to be documented.

Studies of mutation rates of plants and animals around Chernobyl have increased by up to a factor 20 due to release of radionuclides. Rare bird species suffered greater impact than more common ones. Given that each slightly deleterious mutation is expected to result in a selective genetic death and that an average fruit fly under normal conditions may carry as many as 80 mutations, the number of mutations in animals and plants around Chernobyl and hence the number of selective deaths is bound to be much higher.

Bird populations in Fukushima appear to fare worse than those near Chernobyl. Analysis of 14 species common to the two areas revealed a negative effect of radiation immediately after the March 11, 2011, accident upon abundance, differing between areas and species, during the main breeding season in March to July, when individuals work close to their maximum sustainable level.

The citizens of San Franciscos Hunters Point neighborhood have long known that factors adversely impacting children, adults and the unborn are emissions from incinerators and dumps, chemicals released from various industrial processes, pesticides and other toxic chemicals. Repeated small exposures to radionuclides and to many industrial and agricultural chemicals produce additive and synergistic effects, resulting in greater toxicity than from a single equivalent dose.

What is to be done?

It is absolutely essential that health and environmental data be compiled and made available to the public in an open and transparent way so that contamination levels are known. This information is needed to anticipate and structure health care for those damaged by the fallout of radioactive isotopes. It is in this context that governments must be able to handle increased disease levels. Given the known fallout of radioactive iodine, it is likely that various thyroid diseases (hypo-, hyper-, non-malignant and malignant disease) will increase, thus testing and treatment must be planned for and available.

But beyond just diagnosing and treating more people with radiation-related disease, we can truly prevent these diseases by closing nuclear power reactors, thus reducing exposure to radiation. This is not a theory, but a reality with precedents. After President John F. Kennedy signed the 1963 treaty banning above-ground atom bomb tests, there was an immediate and drastic decline in U.S. infant deaths and cancer in young children. After the closing of eight U.S. nuclear power plants in the 1980s and 1990s, similar declines occurred in down-wind areas.

After President John F. Kennedy signed the 1963 treaty banning above-ground atom bomb tests, there was an immediate and drastic decline in U.S. infant deaths and cancer in young children.With one in six of our population living within 50 miles of a nuclear reactor, the opportunity for a healthier future is great indeed.

Every remaining nuclear power plant is a disaster waiting to happen. Twenty-three of these in the U.S. are the same design as those that are melting down at Fukushima Daiichi. Californias San Onofre and Diablo Canyon nuclear plants are located on the ocean, next to known earthquake faults, and up-wind of huge populations where evacuation is next to impossible. Indian Point Nuclear Power Plant, on the Hudson River, is 35 miles north of New York City, where it is a threat to one-fifth of the entire U.S. population.

If 100,000 protested nuclear power in Japan, why is this not happening in the U.S.? Is it because we are so poorly educated scientifically and politically that we dont get it?

I hope not! Or is it the billions of dollars spent by the U.S. government and the nuclear industry in support of this dangerous and unsustainable industry? Protests against the excesses of Wall Street are taking place can we mobilize to close all nuclear power plants?

Since the Fukushima disaster, only two of 54 Japanese reactors are operating the rest closed for inspection and upgrades. Germany and Switzerland have pledged to phase out their reactors, and other nations are considering the same.

Unless the earth stops turning and the laws of chemistry, biology and physics are rescinded, the radioisotopes being released from Fukushima will cause worldwide harm to life. It is in our hands to prevent another Chernobyl or Fukushima.

Janette Sherman, M.D. specializes in internal medicine and toxicology with an emphasis on chemicals and nuclear radiation that cause illness, including cancer and birth defects. Prior to medical school, she worked for the Atomic Energy Commission (forerunner of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission) at the University of California in Berkeley, and for the U.S. Navy Radiation Defense Laboratory in San Francisco. Thus began her long-time involvement with the subject of nuclear radiation

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katatonic
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posted May 06, 2012 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
of course it still seems to be that people would prefer to wait until it DOES happen here. i wonder how the japanese feel about that approach now?

of course, we are all going to die of something, right? perhaps ann coulter is right and all the nuclear folk are wrong, maybe radiation is GOOD for us? after all it kills cancer in one way...but have you ever seen what it leaves behind? and the side effects that persist?

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jwhop
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posted May 07, 2012 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pleassse!

Ron Wyden, is one of the biggest one worlder Socialists in the Senate.

Of course he's anxious to involve other nations in the affairs of Japan and will get around to calling for UN action.

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Aquacheeka
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posted May 07, 2012 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aquacheeka     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
of course it still seems to be that people would prefer to wait until it DOES happen here. i wonder how the japanese feel about that approach now?

of course, we are all going to die of something, right? perhaps ann coulter is right and all the nuclear folk are wrong, maybe radiation is GOOD for us? after all it kills cancer in one way...but have you ever seen what it leaves behind? and the side effects that persist?



Oh man.... I still have nightmares from reading "Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes" as a child... please don't remind me:s.

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SpooL
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posted May 07, 2012 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpooL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I still don't understand why Geothermal wasn't considered instead of Nuclear Energy.

There are several active Volcanoes, and some of them are Calderas.

That means there will be lakes full of hot water, think of Geysers.

50% of the work is already done then. Even Iceland would be Jealous

The UN should be involved because Fukushima and the Tsunami illustrates how badly the Japanese government is when it comes to handling disasters.

Japanese culture is built on the hierarchy were the leader is responsible for everyone safety, now lets be honest we all know that 9/10 politicians are idiots.

So what to do if you live in Japan you have the culture as I described and the individual at the top is either corrupt or incompetent.

Obvious you'll need outside assistance.
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katatonic
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posted May 07, 2012 05:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
unfortunately, jwhop, whatever your politics, the earth is ONE world, and a finite space at that. perhaps the continuing seepage from japan doesn't worry you yet, but all the oceans merge eventually. maybe it is not the end of the world, as many would jump to conclude, but don't you think it might be wise to keep abreast of it rather than pretend it's not there?

do you think big business is going to give up a penny to update our own reactors? it took the government to shut down san onofre, which is not in good shape at all. several outdated plants just received new licenses, and many sit on faults just like daichi fukishima.

i'm not ducking for cover, but this is ONGOING. oregon is fairly directly in the line of flow from japan. their fish industry is at risk, why would a responsible public servant NOT want to see what the story actually is? it's not like there's much information being put out here, is there?

what makes it a political issue?

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Aquacheeka
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From: Toronto, Canada
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posted May 07, 2012 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aquacheeka     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
unfortunately, jwhop, whatever your politics, the earth is ONE world, and a finite space at that. perhaps the continuing seepage from japan doesn't worry you yet, but all the oceans merge eventually. maybe it is not the end of the world, as many would jump to conclude, but don't you think it might be wise to keep abreast of it rather than pretend it's not there?

do you think big business is going to give up a penny to update our own reactors? it took the government to shut down san onofre, which is not in good shape at all. several outdated plants just received new licenses, and many sit on faults just like daichi fukishima.

i'm not ducking for cover, but this is ONGOING. oregon is fairly directly in the line of flow from japan. their fish industry is at risk, why would a responsible public servant NOT want to see what the story actually is? it's not like there's much information being put out here, is there?

what makes it a political issue?


+10,000. I don't understand where politics comes into play with this. This is a global public health concern.

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SpooL
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posted May 08, 2012 01:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpooL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
... but all the oceans merge eventually. maybe it is not the end of the world, as many would jump to conclude, but don't you think it might be wise to keep abreast of it rather than pretend it's not there?

That is correct. From a Physical Geography perspective.

The oceans merge, the prof is thats the only way heat gets transferred from one place within the Earth to another. Wind Currents bring heat as well but not as dramatic as ocean currents.

If the oceans didn't merge areas such as the North pole and Antarctic that are constantly losing heat would never get any heat from warmer areas such as the Equator and areas between the Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn.

Said from a Geology/Geomatics major.

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