Author
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Topic: Political Correctness And This Forum
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jwhop Knowflake Posts: 5138 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 13, 2012 10:20 AM
Ummm, are you responsible for your parents emigrating to Canada? Or, was this beyond your control? I'd really like to know what kind of fight you put up with your parents before they emigrated to Canada.I suppose one could decide not to follow any particular religion but religion is a matter of "faith" for most people at any rate. So, are you suggesting people should abandon their "faith" and/or deeply held religious convictions because this is within their control and therefore a fit issue for disparaging remarks? IP: Logged |
Aquacheeka Knowflake Posts: 1212 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Mar 2012
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posted May 13, 2012 10:27 AM
quote: Originally posted by jwhop: Ummm, are you responsible for your parents emigrating to Canada? Or, was this beyond your control? I'd really like to know what kind of fight you put up with your parents before they emigrated to Canada.I suppose one could decide not to follow any particular religion but religion is a matter of "faith" for most people at any rate. So, are you suggesting people should abandon their "faith" and/or deeply held religious convictions because this is within their control and therefore a fit issue for disparaging remarks?
I know this may be confusing to you, but Canada is actually a country. You know, a large land mass? I think my parents did a good thing moving to Canada. Particularly my mother, who first lived in the US before coming here, realizing there were more opportunities for her here. I, however, did not like the township I was relocated to in my childhood, and upon growing older, moved to Toronto of my own volition. If I did not agree with the culture of this city, I would move elsewhere. Simple as that.
You live in the south, and you do so because you largely agree with the culture there. Making comments about the region you live in is fair game; you could easily move elsewhere if you were inclined to or brave enough. Perhaps because I am from a place (Ontario) where the majority of people have postsecondary education, I am a little more capable than you are of understanding that our two countries are very large and not cultural monoliths. Also, I've actually left mine at some point and can make comments based on experience of other places. Can you say the same? IP: Logged |
katatonic Knowflake Posts: 8031 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 13, 2012 10:30 AM
yes indeed if their "faith" is an excuse for scorning others, the AMERICAN thing to do would be to grow up and treat everyone equally. duh. no one has to choose a religion that promotes bigotry though many use it as backup for such beliefs. or is it heresy to be rational as well as faithful? i know for some it seems to be.. it's certainly not just muslims who want everyone to be like them or get lost (or worse) as to nationality, aquacheeka could move here tomorrow given the proper preparations what is out of her control please? but can we possibly broaden our sensitivity to something a little more than what is politically correct? how amazing would it be if those who disagree with you could be seen as people too, and not just worms one relishes in verbally crushing?? as YTA already said, the sweeping generalizations are more than OLD, they are another form of bigotry. IP: Logged |
Aquacheeka Knowflake Posts: 1212 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Mar 2012
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posted May 13, 2012 10:35 AM
Hey jwhop, I have "deeply ingrained beliefs" about social justice and equal rights for everyone under the law that are reflected in my political views. You have no right to make "disparaging remarks" about my political views given your logic. It's disrespectful!IP: Logged |
Aquacheeka Knowflake Posts: 1212 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Mar 2012
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posted May 13, 2012 10:43 AM
So Jwhop, how many other countries have you visited?IP: Logged |
katatonic Knowflake Posts: 8031 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 13, 2012 11:31 AM
i believe jwhop has affirmed that he never had the desire to go anywhere else somewhere on these pages. perhaps he can prove me wrong. tata loveys.IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 5138 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 13, 2012 11:32 AM
Sorry, but your political views are a fit topic for discussion...here on the GU forum! This forum keeps controversial topics off the pages of the other forums where they don't belong. That's the reason Randall initiated this forum in the first place.However, issues of nationality and religious beliefs should not...I believe..be topics for disparaging remarks. But, you said issues of nationality were within the control of individuals...and I meant nation of birth. OK, you like it in Canada. I like it here in the United States. That makes us even on that issue...at least. You seem very confused to me Aquacheeka...or perhaps you're confusing me with someone else. I can't imagine any reason you would need to assert that I don't know Canada is a country. That notion is ludicrous..in the extreme...considering I've already told you I crossed the border into Canada from the far north boundary of Maine. I also told you I liked the people and the food...not so much! IP: Logged |
Aquacheeka Knowflake Posts: 1212 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Mar 2012
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posted May 13, 2012 11:36 AM
I already stated that it seems you are not aware that "our two countries are very large and not cultural monoliths," it's just that literacy is not your strong suit. I will try and break it down into little words since you're from a red state and educational proficiency is not on the agenda there as the spending budgets and the student examination results themselves will attest: There are parts of the US that I somewhat respect culturally, and parts that I do not. It is the same for Canada.IP: Logged |
Aquacheeka Knowflake Posts: 1212 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Mar 2012
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posted May 13, 2012 11:40 AM
Oh, okay. So in other words, you went to a part where the border is unpatrolled, thus not requiring that passport you're unlikely to have. quote: But, you said issues of nationality were within the control of individuals...and I meant nation of birth.
So then clarify. One's present nationality and regional location are very much within one's control. If you're referring to nation of birth, you simply had to say so.
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Aquacheeka Knowflake Posts: 1212 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Mar 2012
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posted May 13, 2012 11:42 AM
So Jwhop, how many other countries have you visited?IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 5138 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 13, 2012 02:17 PM
At the time I crossed the border into Canada...numerous times,...no passport was necessary.I don't expect unanimity in opinion between nations, between people in A nation or even between people in different states..politically or otherwise. If they're happy where they are, it's fine with me. I live where I choose to live and I always have.
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PixieJane Knowflake Posts: 409 From: CA Registered: Oct 2010
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posted May 13, 2012 04:48 PM
quote: Originally posted by Aquacheeka: Randall, I gotta say as a northerner I find it really refreshing to come here and see, for lack of better descriptive terminology, a southern white man who makes an effort to be fair and sensitive towards everyone. It is a little bit surprising, to be honest. Like Matt for instance told me to "loosen up my weave" - this was more in line with the type of behaviour I would expect from someone from that region where the culture is racism, illiteracy and relations with one's cousins and siblings. So to come here and see a white Southern guy who can not only spell the language he purports to speak with accuracy, but is not racist is like, WOW, at times, you know?
I'm not sure if you're poking a little fun or being serious, but in case of the latter I thought you might be interested in knowing more. First, you might be surprised by laws marrying one's cousin in the USA (which is more acceptable in the USA than gay marriage) can't be rightfully attributed to Southern culture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage_law_in_the_United_States_by_state Having lived for years in both Texas and California I have to say that literacy seems about the same and there's a lot less difference in racism than many would believe (though generally speaking I'd say California is less racist than East Texas but more racist than West Texas, particularly in regards to Latinos--sigh, I trust Latino is still an acceptable word, but this IS getting ridiculous). There tends to be more racist attitudes in the South (which East Texas counts as but West Texas is more part of the West) which can be traced to the keeping of slaves, which I say in part because KY was a Northern state yet has similar problems (and KY was a slave state). History very briefly summed up, slaves were brought here centuries ago and their native language stamped out to prevent conspiracy (which was stupid given most of them didn't speak the same language as each other anyway) which had the side effect of creating a unified black culture who spoke the same language, which made them better able to band together and revolt which they sometimes did...and then there was the Haitian revolution that started out as a slave revolt and what the African slaves did to the white natives (including women and children) was so vile that it terrified the slave states in the US (and IIRC, there were confederate plans to invade Haiti and other Caribbean countries once they won their war against the North). Of course realizing the risks wasn't going to make them stop slavery but they couldn't help but fear a similar occurrence in the USA and so even freed blacks were denied basic rights (particularly about right to assembly and gun ownership) and black males with strong leadership potential tended to be killed (which contributes to why black women became so much more assertive than women of other races, because they were forced to become so and the socially imposed trait continues to trickle down). And this fear continued to trickle down the generations so that even many boomers in the South (or from there) still have a fear of blacks becoming violent against whites (though I think it becomes less with each generation). Where race relations are good in the South is generally because they keep to themselves rather than mixing too much (though Louisiana is an interesting exception, and I've met a black guy from there who bristled being called black because he was a "French man" which--like other Louisiana ethnic groups--is racially mixed and consider themselves distinct from conventional race descriptions such as black and white which seems to encourage a lot more racial mixing in general, and thus tolerance). Adding to this fear that's trickled down the generations is a fierce love of the old Confederacy (which my East Texas school subtly described as the good guys and openly vilified Yankee "carpet baggers") and the freeing of the slaves was seen as a sign of defeat so some whites (though not all) who love the South/Confederacy tend to see blacks as a sign of their defeat (the fact that black organizations tend to be the ones that get Confederate flags taken down from courthouses and the like via legal action only reinforces this). Since you're a Canadian I would like to point out that not everyone who waves a Confederate flag is a racist however, though it does seem to me that almost everyone from outside the South who does is trying to live up to stereotypical bigotry of all kinds. I understand that things like the Shedden massacre leave an impression but I know plenty of Confederate flag waving Texans who are pretty good people, including my cousin who stuck up for my blasian friend against other rednecks who had taken offense to a blasian for sitting with us. That said, I have yet to meet one native Californian who waves a Confederate flag who wasn't trying to live up to the negative Southern stereotype. It's strange to me as they seem to have no idea of all the horrible things I've heard Texans say about Californians (OTOH, as a joke I heard growing up went, using hopefully less offensive language than I how I heard it, "Why did the North get the Yankees and California get the gays? California got to choose first.") You might also find the rivalries between Southern states interesting, btw. Texas and Oklahoma loathe each other so much that there are even brawls and knife fights over it (and people in each state can beat their own up if they catch one of their own wearing the "colors" of the college football team in the other state). I have no idea why. And Texas and Tennessee not only fight over country music but I got into an argument with a TN neighbor (I was more being silly about it until I realized how serious she was taking it) on which state David Crockett "belonged" to (he's an important part of the proud history of both states), and this does seem to be important enough that people from the 2 states can hate each other. One last thing, I have a Texas accent even more pronounced than Bush and Perry but I'm less racist than many Californians are. And while some Californians have decided I was stupid and try taking advantage of the me I've either cut my dealings with them or have, in a few cases, turned the tables on them and I know I at least contributed to the destruction of one vile man's business (by ripping him off as I let him think he was ripping me off) who thought he could take advantage of me and ultimately try to own me (as I was just an ignorant redneck in his book). Even when generalizations exist for a good reason it pays to remember there are always plenty of exceptions to the rule. IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 18232 From: Saturn next to Charmainec Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 13, 2012 05:38 PM
Yep, Latino is acceptable. I have a Latino roommate that I called Mexcican without really thinking about it, and he quickly let me know about my faux pas. My other roommate is from the African Congo. And I had a rommmate a while back who was Iranian.------------------ "Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark IP: Logged |
Ami Anne Moderator Posts: 32099 From: Pluto/house next to NickiG Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 13, 2012 07:24 PM
I think the person just needs to tell people what is insulting and what isn't. If people care for the person and /or to do the right thing, they will honor the person's requests. Some people may feel differently, too, about names which are acceptable to them.IP: Logged |
Aquacheeka Knowflake Posts: 1212 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Mar 2012
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posted May 14, 2012 12:17 PM
Interesting takes, PixieJane, especially on interstate rivalries. May I ask where in Texas you live? Is it Austin?IP: Logged |
Aquacheeka Knowflake Posts: 1212 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Mar 2012
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posted May 14, 2012 12:27 PM
quote: though Louisiana is an interesting exception, and I've met a black guy from there who bristled being called black because he was a "French man"
That happens here too, though I wouldn't say they full on "bristle," but the Canadian government is not sure how many black people live in this country - one estimate is that as many as 40% of black people in this country identified by linguistic or national identity on a census than by race: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Canadians#Census_issues
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Aquacheeka Knowflake Posts: 1212 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Mar 2012
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posted May 14, 2012 12:35 PM
quote: Originally posted by PixieJane: I'm not sure if you're poking a little fun or being serious, but in case of the latter I thought you might be interested in knowing more. First, you might be surprised by laws marrying one's cousin in the USA (which is more acceptable in the USA than gay marriage) can't be rightfully attributed to Southern culture:
Yes, this is quite true, in Vermont, Virginia, Alabama, Alaska and several other states, it is legal for first cousins to marry. In Ohio and Rhode Island incest between siblings is legal.
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PixieJane Knowflake Posts: 409 From: CA Registered: Oct 2010
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posted May 14, 2012 03:31 PM
quote: Originally posted by Aquacheeka: Interesting takes, PixieJane, especially on interstate rivalries. May I ask where in Texas you live? Is it Austin?
I currently live in Southern California. However, I grew up in East Texas (visiting many areas for festivals, parades, and other things, so I saw more than one little town) and the Houston area until I was 16. The specific town I spent years in is so small that many maps don't show it, and it only has a "shopping center" of 3 stores (one a gas station that sells treats and lunch snacks, another a pharmacy which was ran by a busybody back when I was a kid who loved to report any purchases of condoms or "suspiciously sexualized" behavior to parents & grandparents, and the other selling things useful for farming, hunting, and fishing), the rest being farms and churches (and 3 small buildings that house elementary, middle, and high school which also holds the bus that picks up the kids for all 3 schools at the same time). We don't even have cops, we depend on the county for things like deputies and courts. I won't say the town's name because should anyone from there do a google search on it they'd likely find me saying it and it would be better for my family (and possibly even me) if that didn't happen. But to give an idea where it is I'll say that Palestine is the closest Greyhound comes. (Btw, when I visited last summer and my cousin picked me up from the bus station he ended up griping how the confederate flag recently had to be taken down from the courthouse in Palestine before we even got out of town--and contrary to my family calling Palestine "the city" it's a small town). IP: Logged |
Aquacheeka Knowflake Posts: 1212 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Mar 2012
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posted May 14, 2012 04:25 PM
Personally I have mixed feelings on the Confederate flag. I'm well aware of its history and present-day use as brash and bragging bigotry, but on the other hand, I've encountered people who were genuinely unaware of the connotations associated with it or how it could be construed as racist. Ignorance is not an excuse, until it is, I guess?IP: Logged |
PixieJane Knowflake Posts: 409 From: CA Registered: Oct 2010
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posted May 14, 2012 04:34 PM
I'm the same way about the confederate flag. But really many of the things said about the Confederate flag can be said about the Texas flag that flies (Texas independence aside, one of the primary reasons Texians--and yes, it's "Texians" when talking about the days of yore--decided on independence was because Mexico outlawed slavery and had a tendency to free slaves by Texians who were also very racist, notable exceptions like Sam Houston not withstanding). And yet no one has a problem with its history. And then there's the USA flag, which has a negative history all of its own. Our Cherokee tribes joined with the Confederacy against the North because they hated the Union over the Trail of Tears, for example (though some Cherokee were also slave owners, but I believe them when they say it was the Trail of Tears that motivated them to join in the war against the North). Times change, and what flags represent change with the times, so I'm inclined to be forgiving on the Dixie flag, even if the regrettable history/karma of it lingers (especially if the one waving it isn't a Southerner). IP: Logged |
shura Knowflake Posts: 352 From: Registered: Jun 2009
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posted May 14, 2012 07:29 PM
quote: Originally posted by Aquacheeka: Yes, this is quite true, in Vermont, Virginia, Alabama, Alaska and several other states, it is legal for first cousins to marry. In Ohio and Rhode Island incest between siblings is legal.
To clarify: it is not a criminal act to have sex with your sibling in RI. However, you may not legally marry him. Or her, as the case may be. fwiw As a Rhode Islander, I don't have an issue with this. And just for fun I'll add that several years ago there was a push to repeal a hundred year old RI law criminalizing oral sex. I believe the prison sentence was 10 years, but don't quote me. I can't for the life of me recall what the outcome was. Anachronistic sex laws abound here in the US. God damn Puritans. IP: Logged |
katatonic Knowflake Posts: 8031 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 15, 2012 12:24 PM
yes new england is particularly rife with what they call "blue laws" dictating what kind of sex and when it may be enjoyed, even between man and wife in the privacy of their bedrooms. these are very TRADITIONAL, ie they go back to the puritan origins of those states.i did hear of a governor, don't remember which state, who was putting forward a law to make incestuous marriage legal in his fiefdom. have NOT heard if it is being taken up. will try to find more info on it. IP: Logged | |