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Author Topic:   A Lie A Day...........
jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 5268
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 26, 2012 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now to hear O'Bomber tell the story, he's a tight fisted fiscal conservative with taxpayer money. More tight fisted than Reagan, more tight fisted than Coolidge and much more tight fisted than Bush!

And all across America, his Kool-Aid swilling minions screech..right on bro!

Only one thing wrong. It's utter bullshiiit! O'Bomber knows it's utter bullshiiit. Everyone with 2 braincells knows it's utter bullshiiit?

But, what can you do when you're behind in the polls, an election is fast approaching and most of America has been all over O'Bomber's and his demoscat comrades as$es for overspending taxpayer's money?

You tell "The Big Lie"!

But this is "The Big Lie" that not even the Washington ComPost will let O'Bomber get away with.

They give O'Bomber for this "Big Lie"!

The facts about the growth of spending under Obama
Glenn Kessler
05/25/2012
TheWashington Post


“I simply make the point, as an editor might say, to check it out; do not buy into the BS that you hear about spending and fiscal constraint with regard to this administration. I think doing so is a sign of sloth and laziness.”
White House spokesman Jay Carney, remarks to the press gaggle, May 23, 2012

The spokesman’s words caught our attention because here at The Fact Checker we try to root out “BS” wherever it occurs.

Carney made his comments while berating reporters for not realizing that “the rate of spending — federal spending — increase is lower under President Obama than all of his predecessors since Dwight Eisenhower, including all of his Republican predecessors.” He cited as his source an article by Rex Nutting, of MarketWatch, titled, “Obama spending binge never happened,” which has been the subject of lots of buzz in the liberal blogosphere.

But we are talking about the federal budget here. That means lots of numbers — numbers that are easily manipulated. Let’s take a look.

The Facts

First of all, there are a few methodological problems with Nutting’s analysis — especially the beginning and the end point.

Nutting basically takes much of 2009 out of Obama’s column, saying it was the “the last [year] of George W. Bush’s presidency.” Of course, with the recession crashing down, that’s when federal spending ramped up. The federal fiscal year starts on Oct. 1, so the 2009 fiscal year accounts for about four months of Bush’s presidency and eight of Obama’s.

In theory, one could claim that the budget was already locked in when Obama took office, but that’s not really the case. Most of the appropriations bills had not been passed, and certainly the stimulus bill was only signed into law after Obama took office.

Bush had rescued Fannie and Freddie Mac and launched the Troubled Asset Relief Program, which depending on how you do the math, was a one-time expense of $250 billion to $400 billion in the final months of his presidency. (The federal government ultimately recouped most of the TARP money.) So if you really want to be fair, perhaps $250 billion of that money should be taken out of the equation — on the theory that it would have been spent no matter who was president.

Nutting acknowledges that Obama is responsible for some 2009 spending but only assigns $140 billion for reasons he does not fully explain. (Update: in an email Nutting says he attributed $120 billion to stimulus spending in 2009, $5 billion for an expansion of children’s health care and $16 billion to an increase in appropriations bills over 2008 levels.)

On the other end of his calculations, Nutting says that Obama plans to spend $3.58 trillion in 2013, citing the Congressional Budget Office budget outlook. But this figure is CBO’s baseline budget, which assumes no laws are changed, so this figure gives Obama credit for automatic spending cuts that he wants to halt.

The correct figure to use is the CBO’s analysis of the president’s 2013 budget, which clocks in at $3.72 trillion.

So this is what we end up with:

2008: $2.98 trillion

2009: $3.27 trillion

2010: $3.46 trillion

2011: $3.60 trillion

2012: $3.65 trillion

2013: $3.72 trillion

Under these figures, and using this calculator, with 2008 as the base year and ending with 2012, the compound annual growth rate for Obama’s spending starting in 2009 is 5.2 percent. Starting in 2010 — Nutting’s first year — and ending with 2013, the annual growth rate is 3.3 percent. (Nutting had calculated the result as 1.4 percent.)

Of course, it takes two to tangle — a president and a Congress. Obama’s numbers get even higher if you look at what he proposed to spend, using CBO’s estimates of his budgets:

2012: $3.71 trillion (versus $3.65 trillion enacted)

2011: $3.80 trillion (versus $3.60 trillion enacted)

2010: $3.67 trillion (versus $3.46 trillion enacted)

So in every case, the president wanted to spend more money than he ended up getting. Nutting suggests that federal spending flattened under Obama, but another way to look at it is that it flattened at a much higher, post-emergency level — thanks in part to the efforts of lawmakers, not Obama.

Another problem with Nutting’s analysis is that the figures are viewed in isolation. Even 5.5 percent growth would put Obama between Bill Clinton and George W. Bush in terms of spending growth, but that does not take into account either inflation or the relative size of the U.S. economy. At 5.2 percent growth, Obama’s increase in spending would be nearly three times the rate of inflation. Meanwhile, Nutting pegs Ronald Reagan with 8.7 percent growth in his first term — we get 12.5 percent CAGR — but inflation then was running at 6.5 percent.

One common way to measure federal spending is to compare it to the size of the overall U.S. economy. That at least puts the level into context, helping account for population growth, inflation and other factors that affect spending. Here’s what the White House’s own budget documents show about spending as a percentage of the U.S. economy (gross domestic product):

2008: 20.8 percent

2009: 25.2 percent

2010: 24.1 percent

2011: 24.1 percent

2012: 24.3 percent

2013: 23.3 percent

In the post-war era, federal spending as a percentage of the U.S. economy has hovered around 20 percent, give or take a couple of percentage points. Under Obama, it has hit highs not seen since the end of World War II — completely the opposite of the point asserted by Carney. Part of this, of course, is a consequence of the recession, but it is also the result of a sustained higher level of spending.

We sent our analysis to Carney but did not get a response. (For another take, Daniel Mitchell of the Cato Institute has an interesting tour through the numbers, isolating various spending categories. For instance, he says debt payments should be excluded from the analysis because that is the result of earlier spending decisions by other presidents.)

The Pinocchio Test

Carney suggested the media were guilty of “sloth and laziness,” but he might do better next time than cite an article he plucked off the Web, no matter how much it might advance his political interests. The data in the article are flawed, and the analysis lacks context — context that could easily could be found in the budget documents released by the White House.

The White House might have a case that some of the rhetoric concerning Obama’s spending patterns has been overblown, but the spokesman should do a better job of checking his facts before accusing reporters of failing to do so. The picture is not as rosy as he portrayed it when accurate numbers, taken in context, are used.

Three Pinocchios

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-facts-about-the-growth-of-spending-under-obama/2012/05/24/gJQAIJh6nU_blog.html?wprss=rss_fact-checker



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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 6007
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 26, 2012 01:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
but another way to look at it is that it flattened at a much higher, post-emergency level — thanks in part to the efforts of lawmakers, not Obama.

When you want to damn spending you blame Obama, when you want to defend Obama's spending, the article blames lawmakers, not Obama.

Whatever's convenient to the argument at the moment.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 5268
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 28, 2012 06:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gee acoustic, you're just never happy are you?

This article came from the O'Bomber Drooling Academy...the Washington Post!

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Ami Anne
Moderator

Posts: 32500
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted May 28, 2012 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AcousticGod:
When you want to damn spending you blame Obama, when you want to defend Obama's spending, the article blames lawmakers, not Obama.

Whatever's convenient to the argument at the moment.


That is totally illogical AG
This is Dr Ami's Rx for you--Listen to Rush.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 6007
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 28, 2012 06:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's obviously not illogical. If you wish to prove otherwise, go for it.

Rush, Hannity, and Karl Rove are all Capricorns like me. None of them hold any superior analytic ability to me.

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Ami Anne
Moderator

Posts: 32500
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted May 28, 2012 06:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
AG
The first lesson would be how you see man. Do you see man as good? If so, conservatism may not make sense to you.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 5268
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 28, 2012 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Rush, Hannity, and Karl Rove are all Capricorns like me. None of them hold any superior analytic ability to me."..acoustic

Hehehe All that pomposity...and he's humble too! Just like O'Bomber who compared himself to Lincoln.


They're coming to take you away, Ha-ha
They're coming to take you away, Ho-ho
Hee-hee-haa-haa
To the funny farm
Where life is beautiful all the time
And you'll be happy to see those
Nice young men in their clean white coats and
They're coming to take you away, ha-ha!

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Ami Anne
Moderator

Posts: 32500
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted May 28, 2012 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is the thing for a conservative AG. He has to see human nature as it is. Liberals see it as good. It has the capability to be good but it also has the capability to be evil, as the flesh resides in man (speaking from a Biblical perspective)

Not all Conservatives believe in the Bible,of course, but they have a somewhat Biblical view of men i.e there can be no form of utopia that can work. Israel may be some sort of an exception with the kibbutz but that is a different story which is too long to get into, now.

However, barring that, any form of socialism cannot work. It can't. I WISH it could but it is AGAINST human nature.


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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 6007
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 28, 2012 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ami,

I come from Conservative parents. I grew up in the church. I wanted to be a pastor for most of my youth. I understand both Conservatism and Religion better than most Conservatives. I'm also heavily Libra (three planets in the 7th plus two planets in Libra) and Sagittarius (three planets in Saggitarius) influenced, which gives me a distinctively fair and just demeanor (and focuses it on Others since those 3 Sag planets are in the 7th). You make liberals out as naive dreamers, and some may be. I, however, find myself to be less cynical than most. That doesn't preclude the presence of bad in people, but I don't limit my outlook based on cynicism.

I'm always hearing people frame things as either one way or another, as if the limit on options is two. Options are seldom limited to two takes. There are lots of possibilities for almost any situation. Anything could happen at any time. That's both the rational and the realistic way of looking at things. (I'm saying this because Conservatives often have a difficult time accepting that there are multiple ways of looking at and doing most things.)

You're attempting to frame liberals as being unequivocally pro-Socialism. That's a false premise. Not only so, some of our great Conservative institutions are fundamentally pro-Socialism. I've recently shown how the Stock Market is perhaps the single most Socialist entity in our nation via the way it allows the public to own the means of production. That's a classic Socialist premise. Another entity that would be consider Socialist by the Right if it weren't an ingrained part of their life is the church. The church is supposed to exist not only to be the spiritual guide for the community, but it's also supposed to help the sick and the poor. It's supposed to do so without any Capitalist notions of repayment. Maybe some Conservatives would say that's more Communistic, but either way it's still just like Democrat's desire to help everyone be healthy and succeed.

Pre-1950 Americans were way more supportive of that which is labelled as Socialist these days. Back then if you were down you could count on your government, your church, your employer, and your community at large to help you out. There was nothing odd about helping out your fellow man in whichever of these capacities you belonged to. This notion of doing good by your neighbor is being eroded by both sides of the political aisle.

Socialism as broadly defined by American Conservatives is any situation in which the government provides for the people, right? You think it's "Socialist" for the government to get involved with healthcare, correct? Well, the government already does provide healthcare. I'm not talking about the Reagan law for emergency care. I'm talking about police, firemen, the military, etc. All of these serve the function of keeping you safe, and they're all paid for by the government. Socialism at work.

Now, personally I find Conservatives more emotional overall. I think the reports are true about how fear virtually runs Conservatives. That's virtually explains everything about the Conservative psyche. That's why I posted that "Check yourself before you wreck yourself" thread. That was for your benefit, by the way. Remember what it said?

    Think about all the people you've disagreed with this month. How many of them do you think were being intentionally dishonest? Experts say you're almost definitely overshooting the truth. It's called the trust gap, and scientist see it crop up every time one human is asked to estimate how trustworthy another one is. In one study, subjects were asked to rate the likelihood that strangers would share pretend winnings with them. The subjects figured about half were trustworthy enough to share. When it came time to actually share, about 80 percent came through. The subjects thought the world was almost twice as corrupt as it actually is.

    The problem, as another study found, is that when you assume someone is lying, you rarely find out that you're wrong. You just walk away congratulating yourself on being able to sniff out an ambush from a mile away.

    We start assuming people have ulterior motives and hidden agendas as early as age 7 and from that point on, we never have to lose another argument for the rest of our lives. After all, if we assume the person we're arguing with is lying, the only thing they can prove to us is that they're a really good liar. This is how racism, sexism and any other sort of discrimination work. Once someone's made-up their mind that color is the culprit, convincing them otherwise is going to be close to impossible, no matter how ridiculous the scenario.

    This is also where you get claims like, "Those conservatives don't really think taxes are too high, they secretly hate poor people!" or "Those liberals don't really think the poor need assistance, they're secretly communists!" It's impossible to learn anything from a conversation with someone who you think is lying to you. The more arguments you get into with those lying extremists from the other side of the aisle, the more you learn about how they lie, the faster your brain turns off after they start talking. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum26/HTML/001192.html

You've seen for yourself Jwhop's fixation with attempting to make virtually anyone [including myself and legitimate news or scientific entities] out as a liar in hopes that it's true. As the article states, it's not true nearly as much as most people would suppose. Perhaps you also suffer from the same condition. You sound as if you think it preferable to be cynical, to believe that people aim to be bad. It's not.

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Ami Anne
Moderator

Posts: 32500
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted May 28, 2012 09:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WOW Thanks for writing all that. I am honored that you would do that for me AG xx

To me, the Bible tells us about man:his nature, his ways, life's nature, life's ways.

I suppose I am a Libertarian.However, Liberalism doesn't work. If it were workable, I would be all for it. It will work in Heaven, where there are no egos. I am very idealistic, too much so. I want Liberalism to work as it appears to be a kinder, gentler way. However, if it is a chimera, what good does it do us

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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juniperb
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Posts: 4059
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 29, 2012 06:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ami Anne

quote:
To me, the Bible tells us about man:his nature, his ways, life's nature, life's ways.

Lets keep the Bible in DD and out of these threads. It would be unfair to move every thread to DD because you want to slap the Bible in posters face.

Thanks

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Ami Anne
Moderator

Posts: 32500
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted May 29, 2012 06:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I was just making a reference to a way of thinking, not talking about the Bible, per se.
However, I will try not to do that.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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juniperb
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Posts: 4059
From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted May 29, 2012 06:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just wanted to give you a heads up I have been lenient on your Bible/Christian references and am willing to send them to DD.

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Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

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Ami Anne
Moderator

Posts: 32500
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted May 29, 2012 08:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK Juni
I will try to watch references to the Bible

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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