posted October 12, 2012 07:48 AM            

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posted October 12, 2012 07:57 AM            

Biden was just doing what he`s been doing since the old days on the hill. Fumbling at times, rude and folksy ie likable if you overlook the first two adjs..

posted October 12, 2012 08:49 AM            

Ryan did not have the experience in a venue which was watched worldwide. He was intimidated by it all, as anyone would be. Can you imagine being watched, your every move, by millions of people.

Ryan held his own, barely.

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posted October 12, 2012 08:56 AM            

Both were evasive but Ryan moreso.

Of course, I`m biased. I needed more from Ryan and didn`t get it.

posted October 12, 2012 09:02 AM            

Ryan won over the unsure voters who were looking to relate.

Biden came off as a jerk who scoffed every time Ryan opened his mouth.
At times, Biden looked lost and confused on stage, so much I felt awkward for him and wanted to turn the TV off.

Ryan was up against Obama's media army.
The moderator failed to report that she had invited Obama to her wedding.
She would ask Ryan all sorts of "math questions" and would never let him defend himself before moving on.
I think at one point she put her hand up to stop Ryan. Ryan didnt want to look like a idiot up there trying to drive his point home just to be attacked and shut down. It would have looked worse on him.

Biden displayed poor character up there. Character is something the undecided voter looks for.
Ryan, IMO, came off looking honest and intelligent.

posted October 12, 2012 09:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by fairaqua:
Biden won with the Demos that were going to vote Demo no matter what.

Ryan won over the unsure voters who were looking to relate.

Biden came off as a jerk who scoffed every time Ryan opened his mouth.
At times, Biden looked lost and confused on stage, so much I felt awkward for him and wanted to turn the TV off.

Ryan was up against Obama's media army.
The moderator failed to report that she had invited Obama to her wedding.
She would ask Ryan all sorts of "math questions" and would never let him defend himself before moving on.
I think at one point she put her hand up to stop Ryan. Ryan didnt want to look like a idiot up there trying to drive his point home just to be attacked and shut down. It would have looked worse on him.

Biden displayed poor character up there. Character is something the undecided voter looks for.
Ryan, IMO, came off looking honest and intelligent.

And I dont understand why people think they arent being specific..
I have understood and agree with every word they say..

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YES, good points. I think Biden got the die hard Dem's whom O'Bomber may have lost due to people seeing the real O'Bomber in the first debate.

Biden put the mask back on O'Bomber, a little. That was why I was depressed.

O'Bomber is a made up mannequin who has done nothing with his life( but be propped up) and has no moral compass or character of his own.

We saw the true O'Bomber in the first debate. Biden muddied that, a little.

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posted October 12, 2012 10:00 AM            

This debate..in my opinion, accomplished it's intended goals for demoscats. The demoscat base probably loved it. They were going to vote for Romney when pigs fly but they might show up and vote for O'Bomber.

demoscats were going to vote for O'Bomber or stay home...about 81-83% and Republicans were going to vote for Romney..about 87%.

It's those in the middle, the so called moderates and/or Independents who decide elections. These are the voters who, we are told over and over don't like contention, don't like insulting rhetoric. These are the voters..we are told..who may agree with your message but care equally about your language, your demeanor, your mannerisms, facial expressions and non verbal communication.

If that's true and I say IF, then Joe "Plugs" O'Biden's tirades, rude interruptions, smirking, laughing and general show of contempt may have unintended consequences for O'Bomber/O'Biden.

"CHRIS WALLACE: I've Never Seen A Candidate As Disrespectful As Joe Biden Was Tonight" http://www.businessinsider.com/chris-wallace-joe-biden-debate-reaction-smiling-smirking-laughing-2012-10

CNN's Gloria Borger: Biden Came Off As Condescending http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/11/cnns_gloria_borger_biden_came_off_as_condescending.html

posted October 12, 2012 10:07 AM            

quote:

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I would have turned to Martha Raddatz during one of O'Biden's interrupting tirades and asked her in no uncertain terms...Who's the moderator here..you or O'Biden? Do you want me to restore debate order here? If you can't or won't I will.

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Yes. It was extremely annoying and beneath the V.P. to do so. But, hey, I want substance not acting.

posted October 12, 2012 10:30 AM            

I look forward to kat and AG`s input.

posted October 12, 2012 11:02 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
I must be a lunkhead because I can not see how Bidens behavior and evasive answers were a plus much less a win for the Dems.

I look forward to kat and AG`s input.

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That is my 2 cents.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted October 12, 2012 11:35 AM            

You could see it when they asked on his religion and you could see it when Ryan thanked him for his sons service.

posted October 12, 2012 11:57 AM            

quote:

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Fumbling at times, rude and folksy ie likable if you overlook the first two adjs..

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quote:

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This is what I think happened.Biden had the gravitas of the OFFICE of VP behind him. Biden was an elder to Ryan.

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Yes, there was a bit of Cheney/Edwards in there. Cranky, white-haired, old man versus youthful upstart.

quote:

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He was intimidated by it all, as anyone would be. Can you imagine being watched, your every move, by millions of people.

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I'd actually give him more credit than that. Ryan doesn't strike me as timid or easily rattled.

quote:

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Ryan won over the unsure voters who were looking to relate.

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There's no way of really knowing that.

quote:

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The moderator failed to report that she had invited Obama to her wedding.

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The Moderator's ex-husband invited Obama to their wedding. As a journalist, she's very highly regarded.

quote:

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And there came a point in that debate when I know I would have turned to Martha Raddatz during one of O'Biden's interrupting tirades and asked her in no uncertain terms...Who's the moderator here..you or O'Biden? Do you want me to restore debate order here? If you can't or won't I will.

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I got to see Lehrer explain his debate performance, and was kind of surprised to find out that he intentionally got out of the way of direct confrontation and debate. Apparently, this is the way of the future for debates. I think I kind of like the more disciplined style myself, though in the end this is just another campaign show.

quote:

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I must be a lunkhead because I can not see how Bidens behavior and evasive answers were a plus much less a win for the Dems.

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Well, I think we suspected that Biden would try to make up for Obama in this debate. He went a bit overboard in doing so. How it plays out with people will be determined by the people.

posted October 12, 2012 01:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by fairaqua:
I almost feel sorry for Biden. In last nights debate more than once I saw a man struggling between morals and power.
He has obviously been blinded by power during his long political career ...but I think as he is getting up in his age hes second guessing some of the choices hes made.

You could see it when they asked on his religion and you could see it when Ryan thanked him for his sons service.

He is a man with corrupted morals that I foresee having a lot of death bed regrets.

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Brilliant, brilliant observations. I felt it, under my skin, but could not express it like you did

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posted October 12, 2012 03:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by jwhop:
Biden did not win the debate on facts.

If Biden could be said to have won the debate at all, it would have been on bombast and nothing else.

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Totally, on bombast but that is all O'Bomber et al have

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posted October 12, 2012 03:59 PM            

Here are a few to get you started:
http://factcheck.org/2012/10/veep-debate-violations/
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/abcs-fact-check-team-assesses-debate-joe-biden/story?id=17459881
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/oct/11/fact-checking-vice-presidential-debate-between-joe/

posted October 12, 2012 04:53 PM            

Clearly he didn`t win any brownie points.

Ryan was cool, calm and evasive as heck.

My opinion was there were no winners in this debate. In fact, Ryans evasiveness makes me look harder at Romneys own (evasiveness).

Thanks for the input AG.

posted October 12, 2012 09:39 PM            

Here's a real fact check on who was lying through his teeth in the debate last night...and it wasn't Paul Ryan.

Fact Check: Top Ten Worst Lies by Joe Biden in VP Debate
Joel B. Pollak
12 Oct 2012

Once again, Joe Biden lied his way through a Vice Presidential debate--just as he did in his contest with Sarah Palin in 2008. This time, the media caught a few of Biden's worst "malarkey" moments--as did his opponent, Paul Ryan, when he could get a word in edgewise.
Here are the top ten worst lies told by Biden during the debate:

Update - Honorable Mention: "There's not one Democrat who endorsed his...plan." Biden lied--as Ryan pointed out, amidst the Vice President's interruptions--about the fact that Ryan had worked with both Democratic Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon and former Clinton budget director Alice Rivlin in developing his entitlement reforms. While it's true that neither have endorsed the Romney-Ryan ticket's separate plan--which is different--Ryan's own plans, to which Biden referred, were endorsed by Democrats, and Biden knows it.

10. "With all due respect, that’s a bunch of malarkey....not a single thing he said is accurate." At the outset of the debate, Biden tried to paint Ryan as a liar--when Biden, in fact, was the one lying. Ryan had pointed out: 1) that the White House had distanced itself from the Cairo embassy's apologies on 9/11; 2) that Obama had failed to speak up for Iranian protestors in 2009; 3) that the Obama administration called Syria's dictator a "reformer"; 4) and that the Obama administration is imposing defense cuts and projecting weakness. All of that is true.

9. "The president has met with Bibi [Netanyahu] a dozen times....This is a bunch of stuff." While they have met several times--not a dozen--that includes a meeting at which Obama made the Israeli prime minister enter the White House through a back entrance, refused to take a picture with him, and left him on his own for dinner. Specifically, Ryan had criticized Obama's refusal to meet Netanyahu in New York last month, and to tape talk show interviews instead--a clear snub that sent the wrong signal, again, to Israel's enemies.

8. "Just let the taxes expire like they’re supposed to on those millionaires." Biden's "millionaires" are actually households earning more than $250,000 a year, which includes many middle-class families with two earners, and small business owners in particular who report business earnings as personal income. Biden and Obama have repeatedly labeled those earning over $250,000 as "millionaires and billionaires," distorting the actual impact of their tax plan on the non-millionaires it would hit hardest, who create a vast proportion of small business jobs.

7. "You know, I heard that death panel argument from Sarah Palin. It seems that every vice presidential debate, I hear this kind of stuff about panels." Biden's cheap shot against Palin was an attempt to diminish both her and the man sitting across from him. But Palin never talked about "death panels" in her debate with Biden, for the simple reason that Obamacare had not yet been proposed. Nor did Ryan mention "death panels"--he had addressed the undeniable fact that Obamacare proposes a board to impose cost controls.

6. "The congressman here cut embassy security in his budget by $300 million below what we asked for." Biden's lie about Ryan's budget was an attempt to dodge responsibility for lax embassy security--and to cover up that the Obama administration called for new cuts to embassy security just days after the 9/11 attacks. Ryan's proposal, which called for a 19% overall decrease in non-defense discretionary spending, does not even mention embassy security--the Obama campaign merely made up that number by applying 19% across the board.

5. "No, they are not four years closer to a nuclear weapon." Biden's attempt to lie about the glaring reality of the Iranian nuclear program fell flat. Iran is indeed four years closer to a nuclear weapon, and the Obama administration--believing it knew better than its predecessors--tried to reinvent the wheel on talks with Iran, causing frustration to our allies in Europe and the Middle East. Meeting after meeting this year has failed to produce results, and the loophole-filled sanctions, while hurting Iran somewhat, are not stopping its nuclear program.

4. "No religious institution, Catholic or otherwise...has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact." No, it is not a fact--it is the opposite of a fact, and saying "that is a fact" does not make it any less a blatant lie. The Obama administration is forcing religious institutions to provide contraceptive and abortion drugs through their insurance policies. That is the reason several dozen religious institutions are suing the administration to defend their First Amendment freedom of religion.

3. "It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card...I was there. I voted against him." Biden voted for both the Iraq war and the Afghanistan war. He did not vote for George W. Bush's plan to extend coverage of Medicare to prescription drugs (though he voted for an earlier, similar proposal), nor did he vote for the Bush tax cuts. But he voted for both of the wars he derided last night. To quote Bill Clinton's speech to the Democratic National Convention: "It takes some brass to attack a guy for doing what you did."

2. "What we did is we saved $716 billion and put it back -- applied it to Medicare." Biden repeated the lie the Obama administration has been telling since before Obamacare passed in 2010: that cuts to Medicare today were savings that extend the life of the program. They would be--if the same $716 billion wasn't also being used to pay for Obamacare. As Ryan pointed out in 2010, and again last night, you can't double-count the same cuts. Taking $716 billion out of Medicare means exactly that--and hurts, not helps, the program's solvency.

posted October 13, 2012 10:17 AM            

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posted October 13, 2012 11:43 AM            

Sure can't run on their record of utter failure.

25 years ago, they might have gotten away with running on a campaign of absolute lies with an adoring press backing them up..or failing to report facts to voters.

But not today. The drooling leftist press have lost control and the leftist narrative isn't believed by voters who tune out their news broadcasts, won't read their print newspapers, listen to talk radio, watch Fox News and spend time on the Internet deconstructing the leftist BS.