posted November 03, 2012 05:38 PM              

You've been very hostile towards commenters throughout this thread. And yes, you've indeed contradicted yourself. And another thing, you've been stating that immigration based on your personal standards is good, it has to be legal right? Yet, you've disavowed the Dream Act. Which gives those you consider to be illegal, a path way to having legal right to stay in this country. According to the parameters of the Dream Act, those who abide would be allowed to continue to live and work here legally. Many have only ever been exposed to this culture and consider themselves to be Americans because in some instances they have fought on behalf of this country in wars and contributed dramatically to the financial growth of our economy. What have you done for this country to make things better besides complain. I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just saying it's takes a great deal of effort and many hands in the pot to keep a country moving forward. I disagree with you completely though on your views concerning illegals. California isn't going down the toilet because of illegals. It's the short sighted greedy bigots who continue to pollute our society with their corrupt thinking and prejudiced political efforts that will further divide this country and keep us from moving forward.

"It pis ses me off that they can just come here and get a free ride with the silly Dream Act, or they can get free services at the clinic" Dreaming111

posted November 03, 2012 06:15 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
Being from a family of 1st generation immigrants doesn't give you unsolicited latitude to judge those who you presume to be illegal immigrants. Chinese, Indians, Mexicans? What documentation do you have to prove that people within these ethnic groups are illegal? As far I know immigrants come in all shapes and sizes. The papers? What papers? I'm looking for stats, data, research, factual evidence to support your statement. I'm not going to do research for you, to support your inflammatory statements about those you presume to be illegal immigrants.

You've been very hostile towards commenters throughout this thread. And yes, you've indeed contradicted yourself. And another thing, you've been stating that immigration based on your personal standards is good, it has to be legal right? Yet, you've disavowed the Dream Act. Which gives those you consider to be illegal, a path way to having legal right to stay in this country. According to the parameters of the Dream Act, those who abide would be allowed to continue to live and work here legally. Many have only ever been exposed to this culture and consider themselves to be Americans because in some instances they have fought on behalf of this country in wars and contributed dramatically to the financial growth of our economy. What have you done for this country to make things better besides complain. I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just saying it's takes a great deal of effort and many hands in the pot to keep a country moving forward. I disagree with you completely though on your views concerning illegals. California isn't going down the toilet because of illegals. It's the short sighted greedy bigots who continue to pollute our society with their corrupt thinking and prejudiced political efforts that will further divide this country and keep us from moving forward.

[b]"It pis ses me off that they can just come here and get a free ride with the silly Dream Act, or they can get free services at the clinic" Dreaming111

^ Your words. Are you starting to see the contradictions? (Rhetorical question)[/B]

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No that is not a contradiction. I dislike that they have any vantage in this country. What about the fact that out of state students still pay more for university education in California, while illegals get a free ride?

I AM EAST INDIAN. You need to work on comprehension skills.

The fact that I see immigrants on a day to day basis both legal and illegal gives me lots of latitude to say what I say.

Here are the facts for you:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/15/us/15gangs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

quote from the article:
But in the two months since his older son, Jamiel Jr., was gunned down by a man the police say is a gang member who was here illegally from Mexico, Mr. Shaw has been able to think of little else.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/hospitals-stuck-with-illeg al-immigrant-uninsured-permanent-patients-at-massive-cost/

quote from the article above:
What’s a “permanent patient”? According to the New York Times they are mostly illegal immigrants or people who lack insurance or their own housing that the hospital cannot turn away.

What kind of cost are we talking about here?

“Care for a patient languishing in a hospital can cost more than $100,000 a year, while care in a nursing home can cost $20,000 or less [emphasis added],” Roberts reports.

Oh and when you find a real contradiction in any of my argument please please list them. I would love to know. Just dont make up things or put words in my mouth. Til then try again.

posted November 03, 2012 06:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
Being from a family of 1st generation immigrants doesn't give you unsolicited latitude to judge those who you presume to be illegal immigrants. Chinese, Indians, Mexicans? What documentation do you have to prove that people within these ethnic groups are illegal? As far I know immigrants come in all shapes and sizes. The papers? What papers? I'm looking for stats, data, research, factual evidence to support your statement. I'm not going to do research for you, to support your inflammatory statements about those you presume to be illegal immigrants.

You've been very hostile towards commenters throughout this thread. And yes, you've indeed contradicted yourself. And another thing, you've been stating that immigration based on your personal standards is good, it has to be legal right? Yet, you've disavowed the Dream Act. Which gives those you consider to be illegal, a path way to having legal right to stay in this country. According to the parameters of the Dream Act, those who abide would be allowed to continue to live and work here legally. Many have only ever been exposed to this culture and consider themselves to be Americans because in some instances they have fought on behalf of this country in wars and contributed dramatically to the financial growth of our economy. What have you done for this country to make things better besides complain. I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just saying it's takes a great deal of effort and many hands in the pot to keep a country moving forward. I disagree with you completely though on your views concerning illegals. California isn't going down the toilet because of illegals. It's the short sighted greedy bigots who continue to pollute our society with their corrupt thinking and prejudiced political efforts that will further divide this country and keep us from moving forward.

[b]"It pis ses me off that they can just come here and get a free ride with the silly Dream Act, or they can get free services at the clinic" Dreaming111

^ Your words. Are you starting to see the contradictions? (Rhetorical question)[/B]

---

With all your thumping for illegals here I would love to know what you have been doing for this country. SO what have you done if anything for this country? Where do your loyalties really lie? Yeah, I dont think being a fanatic illegal supporter is better than being a loyal honest citizen who voices his or her problem against illegals mooching off the hard work of others.

posted November 03, 2012 06:31 PM            

Though as I have stated before given that we have no record of those that waltz in daily and have anchor babies, all these *facts* cannot be accurate. But this is what is out there take it as you wish. For those that attach figures to illegal immigration (IQ: less than 1% of illegals pursue criminal activity) and need numbers to understand a real issue, here they are:

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/02/local/me-cap2

posted November 03, 2012 06:32 PM            

Illegal immigrants aren't entitled to welfare, called CalWORKs. But their citizen children are. Roughly 190,000 kids are receiving welfare checks that pass through their parents. The cost: about $500 million, according to the nonpartisan Legislative Analyst's Office.

posted November 03, 2012 06:34 PM            

The state is spending $775 million on Medi-Cal healthcare for illegal immigrants, according to the legislative analyst. Of that, $642 million goes into direct benefits. Practically all the rest is paid to counties to administer the program. The feds generally match the state dollar-for-dollar on mandatory programs.

So-called emergency services are the biggest state cost: $536 million. Prenatal care is $59 million. Not counted in the overall total is the cost of baby delivery -- $108 million -- because the newborns aren't illegal immigrants.

....but I will save 10 cents on a few bananas and get 10 dollars off for my gardening...Isnt that the argument? They make it cheaper for me and work that no one wants to do they will do. Of course of course, if I am in country illegally ANY work and ANY pay would be nice.

posted November 03, 2012 06:39 PM            

Of course, illegal immigrants do pay state taxes. But no way do they pay enough to replenish what they're drawing in services. Their main revenue contribution would be the sales tax, but they can't afford to be big consumers, and food and prescription drugs are exempt

posted November 03, 2012 06:41 PM            

http://news.yahoo.com/u-born-kids-illegal-immigrants-florida-tuition-judge-200945226.html

posted November 03, 2012 06:51 PM            

Majority would pretend they did not know what country they came from or would not provide valid documentation for country of origin. Then the people would not be shipped back and placed in detention facilities. Again another money waster.

The best way is:

- to control the border rigidly.
- to fine and punish those harboring illegals in any capacity--religious groups, individuals, public officials, businesses, farmers etc.
- not allow birth right citizenship for any illegals. (Birth right citizenship was for the blacks of the south who were discriminated against by the Democrats of that time. Yes Democrats. I feel that is the only place where it is fair. If tomorrow the country told me I had to sign up for citizenship....I would be happy to do so.
Or they should make it that a child born to a permanent resident gets the birth right citizenship.)
- not allow illegals into our school system
- not waste money on providing illegals drivers licenses because that allows them to also board planes in this country. Does anyone not see how dangerous this loophole can be?
- not allow them to open up bank accounts
- not allow them to rent or own homes

Then they will move out themselves while we simultaneously strengthen the border. We dont have to worry about detaining them, not the costs of sending them back home.

posted November 03, 2012 06:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dreaming111:
They are not the nice people who take jobs no one else wants. They are also the people who have babies that end up taking...er no steal education away from our own

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posted November 03, 2012 06:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by pire:
I will get back to your questions but let me tell u that your attitude doesn't surprise me from someone that is himself from immigrant descent.
In france last month, in marseilles near italy, where they've got hot blood so to speak, immigrants from maghreb who are legal with french nationality 1st or 2nd generation, set fire to a rom's camp. Roms are tsiganes or gipsees if you want. From romania or hungary. Countries within the EU. Hence naturally allowed everywhere in the EU.
But what is surprising when you don't know howmuch people can be narrow minded and bigot is that people from maghreb who've been french for only a couple of decades are not more tolerant with poorer people than the traditional french. Cause a lot of french still argue that those muslims that are actually french should not be here. And besides the real hardcore racists, those among the "native" french who speak like that are from the lower class. They have a scapegoat that themsleves have their scapegoat. Is it to feel more integrated???

---

I get that and I have to ask you why wouldnt someone with a fair mind and not playing the favoritist game feel that they should support liars and frauds?

I get why these people are mad at the illegals in France. Having said that burning their camp is a bit too extreme.

You have to understand that while I love India and Indians, I would not harbor someone here committing a crime. Idc that he is Indian or not. I feel also that they would tarnish my communities reputation and standing if I were to take his side.

I get that people who have been here centuries would not even consider me a valid member and I can totally understand that. Look at me, I was born here and my parents grew up here but I still dislike ILLEGAL immigration. LEGAL immigration is another story and something I totally support. But I can see how people who might have been in the world war 1 and 2 would feel that I have not done enough for this country in order to call it my own. I get that. And I would not argue their reservation.

posted November 03, 2012 06:59 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by pire:
It is not about being politically correct here it is about showing humanity

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How about we show humanity to those who respect and show it back?

posted November 03, 2012 07:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by katatonic:
dp

---

Well an illegal pregnant woman need only to go to the hospital emergency room, where her delivery would be done for free. And then she has a new born legal anchor baby citizen in this country.

That is how the system works. I know that there are many Indians who come here on visitor visa and have babies to ensure the steady flow of welfare checks to their children even after they go back to India.
ANd that child could at the age of 18 arrive right back here and sign up for college etc like he was here legally.

That is how hte loophole works.

The Chinese being shrewder have made it a big business where they have a set hotel they stay at and a set hospital they deliver at. The Chinese businessmen make a profit on whatever that woman is willing to pay to have an anchor baby.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2010/11/new-breed-anchor-babies-china/
http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2010/11/chinese_anchor_babies.php

As for the idea that citizens create this issue of illegals I COMPLETELY AGREE.

posted November 03, 2012 07:09 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by pire:
Well if I were able to vote in the US I 'd start by voting for the opponent to romney. Because however incredible it is, there is huge profit being made in wall street. And the money iis a tool that should be used to help children, pensioners, ill people and so on

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Either party is mixed in illegal immigration.
Republicans for the most part could have done something when Bush was in the lead yet they chose not to. Why? Because people are getting paid under the table.

Both sides are corrupt. Anyway you look at it...honest hardworkers are getting shi tt ed on. The really corrupt, wealthy and powerful will always think about their short term needs over the country;s long term good.

posted November 03, 2012 07:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dreaming111:
So I was reading the newspaper today and I came across an article regarding the election registration.

Guess what? We have Jerry dumb dumb Brown in charge and he allowed online registration for this election....Yup no way people can fake things in the comfort of their own homes, huh?

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I moved a little over a year ago and recently registered the old fashion way.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dreaming111:
We will have more teenagers and college students voting.

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I don't buy it. I suppose if you live in a small college town that it might seem that way but otherwise boomers outnumber the rest of us (and THAT may flush California down the toilet as they become more dependent on the government). And even so, older people are much more likely to vote than those in college...and btw, it's possible that a video game being released is gonna affect voter turnout among those younger than 30 (at least guys):
http://www.mediabistro.com/prnewser/to-vote-or-to-play-halo-4-that-is-the-question_b4 8858

And btw, CA demographics:
http://www.infoplease.com/us/census/data/california/demographic.html

posted November 03, 2012 07:16 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dreaming111:
The newly registered kids are largely from hispanic backgrounds. (Yes, that was what the article said.)

---

You know, I MIGHT believe that had the article not already lost its credibility with me. Even so, if they can vote then they're not kids anymore, and I haven't noticed that those say 25 are any less gullible than those 65 (note, I didn't say they weren't prone to be gullible).

Btw, I know a few who have legally immigrated here, including a former Mexican, and they all bristle at the idea of illegals getting it easy when they took the hard road (granted, they do want to see the system made easier, but that's another topic). I'm not saying they're all like that and I'm sure plenty will vote who they think will be softest on their not-yet legal friends but it's not like they vote in solidarity, and even then they care about other issues as well (for example, many from Mexico tend to be very religious and socially conservative, something antigay groups have tried to capitalize on back when it was time to vote on Prop 8), and of course they have the same problem as the rest of us: politicians lie and break their promises all the time.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dreaming111:
Fact is illegals in this state have ruined it. Yes, ruined it. There are more gangs in my neighborhood now and therefore more crime. I open the paper and every single time I see another hispanic person affiliated with a gang commiting crime or wanted and on the loose.

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My friend who left Mexico in part to get away from these gangs as well as a prison guard has told me a lot about it, and it's a very serious, frightening problem for both countries (but guess what, the Patriot Act has a lot to do with why it exploded as it did). Even so, most of those involved in that gang war can't vote (and probably wouldn't bother even if they could).

And in case you didn't know there's a "civil war" between the Mexican gangs (interesting enough they're called the "Southerners" vs. "Northerners" which I think is based on where their respective gang HQ is in Mexico though I've heard other explanations) and they spend more time killing each other than anyone else (the thought of what they'll do once they stop fighting bothers me A LOT), which also disrupts any harmony or bloc action on their part, even via any friends of relatives of theirs who can & does vote. (And btw, the Mexican dealers HATE medical marijuana and want to see it banned as that interferes with their biz, so at least in that regard would prefer a Republican over a Democrat.)

And, of course, not every Mexican here illegally has anything to do with the gangs, many are just trying to get by (and some come here to get away from the gang violence as it's even worse in Mexico).

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dreaming111:
I was in the public library the other day and there was an announcement about immigration and information. An elderly white lady comes into the room and says her niece got pregnant with an illegals baby and wants to figure out how to let him stay here legally. The lady who was giving out the immigration info and who btw was Hispanic saw me and tried to hush that elderly lady up....She even told her to call her on a special number later. She then shooed her off.
Wow. Just wow. No favoritism and illegal business there, huh?

---

So they wanted to make him legal, that is start following the law, in order to help raise a family? I personally don't see anything ominous about that, not unless this is some "protect the purity of the white race" thing. Granted, if I had my druthers he wouldn't have been here illegally at all in the first place, but I wonder if he was really illegal or just not fully legal (there's a HUGE difference IMO, as those not fully legal are here legally if only temporarily), and the baby could've also been conceived in a fling in Mexico, too.

And I don't see any favoritism, not unless they only helped people from one country and not others.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dreaming111:
What I find so unfair is that they are honest and deserving and the messed up twisted government makes them wait years and years...while the uneducated and worthless ones just waltz over here and damn rights and services

Pis ses me off. I mean these people are EDUCATED and they are doing the RIGHT thing. If anything they should be allowed to get here sooner but no....not in this messed up country.

---

We can agree on that much at least.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dreaming111:
get a free ride with the silly Dream Act

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Fact check on Dream Act:
http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/romneys-immigration-exaggeration/

and
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/fact-check-obamas-reprieve-for-ill egal-immigrants/

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dreaming111:
they can get free services at the clinic.

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That's good for people in big biz if not the rest of us so I don't see that changing any time soon. But fun fact, Canada doesn't let people who don't pay into their system (via taxation) as having full access to their health care (at least not without paying more than a Canadian would).

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dreaming111:
The churches in my area are such horrid enablers though

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They have their own agendas, even when they have no personal ties to say people from Mexico. Such agendas include exploiting them for both tithes and in getting grants to help them (and often get free labor out of it, too), but for those who can legally vote they can encourage them to vote in ways that allows the church greater power over the rest of us.

As just one example, an antigay group SUPPORTED BY ROMNEY organized black and Latino members to vote for Prop 8.

Back then I lived 2 blocks from a Catholic Church and the Hispanics came in droves to "pray for Prop 8" (whether or not they could vote) and it was more crowded than Easter. Some were jerks, too, who blocked driveways so residents couldn't get in or out and a neighbor lost 2 cats being ran over by Catholics (nearly all Hispanic), but then being a good Christian is all about the hate, not the Golden Rule.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dreaming111:
Why is any religious organization above the damn law?

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I wonder that, too, and more so when it applies to much more important things like child abuse, such as this as just one example (with "religious exemption" making them immune to the law so they break it with a self-righteous grin):
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/religious-e xemption-at-some-florida-childrens-homes-shields-prying-eyes/1258390

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dreaming111:
No matter where you look there is another person breaking the law and grinning

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I see that, too, but I see that everywhere...and the richer you are the more you can get away with it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dreaming111:
Now with these new registered voters clearly in favor of illegal immigration....we are screwed. My vote and any other honest citizen;s vote does not count, at least not in California.

---

Yep, love it or hate it, that's democracy for you. Personally, I prefer anarchism.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dreaming111:
I think that the deficit would be closed if we fined those religious institution that support anything illegal. They should not be NGOS. They should be taxed at a higher rate.

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posted November 03, 2012 07:35 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dreaming111:
Either party is mixed in illegal immigration.
Republicans for the most part could have done something when Bush was in the lead yet they chose not to. Why? Because people are getting paid under the table.

Both sides are corrupt. Anyway you look at it...honest hardworkers are getting shi tt ed on. The really corrupt, wealthy and powerful will always think about their short term needs over the country;s long term good.

The people in the middle always end up sandwiched.

---

posted November 03, 2012 08:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PixieJane:
I don't buy it. I suppose if you live in a small college town that it might seem that way but otherwise boomers outnumber the rest of us (and THAT may flush California down the toilet as they become more dependent on the government). And even so, older people are much more likely to vote than those in college...and btw, it's possible that a video game being released is gonna affect voter turnout among those younger than 30 (at least guys):
http://www.mediabistro.com/prnewser/to-vote-or-to-play-halo-4-that-is-the-question_b4 8858

And btw, CA demographics:
http://www.infoplease.com/us/census/data/california/demographic.html

Personally, I think that's all that needs to be said about your article and its credibility but I'll continue in a moment.

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False simply because you dont want to believe it or havent read it?

I have lived here all my life....
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/oct/31/local/la-me-voters-20121101
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_21621979/gov-jerry-brown-signs-election-day-voter-registration

posted November 03, 2012 08:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PixieJane:
Holy...just looked at the rest of this thread and don't plan on bothering with it anymore...that was just insane.

And only Mexican gangs here? Wow...just wow...

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posted November 03, 2012 08:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by pire:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dreaming111:
[b] Either party is mixed in illegal immigration.
Republicans for the most part could have done something when Bush was in the lead yet they chose not to. Why? Because people are getting paid under the table.

Both sides are corrupt. Anyway you look at it...honest hardworkers are getting shi tt ed on. The really corrupt, wealthy and powerful will always think about their short term needs over the country;s long term good.

The people in the middle always end up sandwiched.

---

Did u think about it?[/B][/QUOTE]

And? People in the past used to live in caves I suppose the man that eats at least twice a week should be happy?