posted November 04, 2012 02:36 AM            

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Should we start paying people in other countries ot stay out of ours? 

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posted November 04, 2012 02:46 AM            

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Should we take it out of you mom and dad;s salary?

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posted November 04, 2012 03:00 AM            

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Should we force one group to pay for the next?

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posted November 04, 2012 03:16 AM            

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When do you see it stopping? Would your country be able to support more unskilled workers? Because a majority of skilled and educated workers prefer to go through a legal process.

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posted November 04, 2012 03:35 AM            

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Should their govenment be responsible for their own people? Why are they not investing in their own people and allowing them to be in that situation where they end up on someone else;s footsteps?

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posted November 04, 2012 03:35 AM            

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Originally posted by Dreaming111:
False simply because you dont want to believe it or havent read it?

I have lived here all my life....
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/oct/31/local/la-me-voters-20121101
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_21621979/gov-jerry-brown -signs-election-day-voter-registration

Part of the law takes effect now, in 2013 and in 2015. In any case it is signed into law...

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Oops, my bad. I started reading, then taking notes in the middle which turned into a response, got a little brain fried and went back to the beginning and read that as mandatory registration by computer. (Normally when I feel brain fried I save it until later, it helps a lot, but too many times on LL the thread gets locked in the meantime which annoys me a lot and so now I just post it instantly instead of later.)

I figured one can do it online but all the same it's the same info you'd put on a voter registration card: address, DL or ID number, etc, and it seems to me they can verify one as well as the other. The only difference is online is faster and it saves the price of stamp (plus, it presumably saves trees).

posted November 04, 2012 08:22 AM            

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Originally posted by Dreaming111:
I get that and I have to ask you why wouldnt someone with a fair mind and not playing the favoritist game feel that they should support liars and frauds?

I get why these people are mad at the illegals in France. Having said that burning their camp is a bit too extreme.

You have to understand that while I love India and Indians, I would not harbor someone here committing a crime. Idc that he is Indian or not. I feel also that they would tarnish my communities reputation and standing if I were to take his side.

I get that people who have been here centuries would not even consider me a valid member and I can totally understand that. Look at me, I was born here and my parents grew up here but I still dislike ILLEGAL immigration. LEGAL immigration is another story and something I totally support. But I can see how people who might have been in the world war 1 and 2 would feel that I have not done enough for this country in order to call it my own. I get that. And I would not argue their reservation.

Why is *illegal* immigration something that you praise though out of curiosity? Why is legal immigration not enough in comparision?

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Oh I had missed this post, sorry.

Well I am lost, where are u from exactly, just to clarify cause one page 1 I thought u saidu were west india n which to me mean from west indies which I thought was being from the caraibbeans. But here on this post u talk about indian. I am confused.

On your question at the end of this post u ask me why I *praise* illigal immigration. But I suppose you didn't phrase your question this way on purpose, right? You aren't trying to imply something that I didn't say, right? Cause that would be unfair to do that. Don't you think?

posted November 04, 2012 09:38 AM            

What does this have to do with MODERN day society that has moved away from that? I could strawman history too and say that there was a nation the chinese created. Intellectual. Creative. And at the time they chose to build a great wall for their protection......Guess what it worked.

posted November 04, 2012 09:45 AM            

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Originally posted by pire:
What I feel in your words is resentment for a specific community. U may want to disguise it behind the illegals in general but your real target seems to be illegal latinos. For me you have resentment because you are jealous of the latino's community influence over the US. They are foreigner to u. And they replaced the black community as minority number one. You are jealous.
Comming from the west indies I suppose you are black. So your comment would be the expression of racism from one minority against another disguise behind the argument of fighting illegals who ruin the country, so instead of appearing divisive you appear to unite.

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Obviously you did not read the ENTIRE thread where I mentioned that:

1. My dad has a business in Mexico where skilled workers such as engineers never get a fair shake at immigration.

2. That there was a hispanic girl that was shot at in my area.

3. I dont care what race or color someone is as long as they do not think they are above the law.

4. That I dislike the notion of illegal indians here, being east indian myself.

So basically, you are making up assumptions that I am jealous of latinos. I find that insulting and rude. Why the heck would I be jealous of any group?

I am FRUSTRATED with their ability to flaunt the law, sure. Is that what one would call jealousy? Because if you asked me to trade places with any illegal then I would laugh at you.

Who are you to say something so ridiculous?
That would be like me saying...

*I think you are hispanic or have a hispanic gf/bf or ancestory and so you wanna kiss behind on here by being on the WRONG side of the issue. I also think that maybe you have had lots of shady dealings and are probably illegal in your own country OR that you directly are associated with illegals and thus you are fair(cough) only those that benefit you. I think you are a selfish and uneducated person...but that is under the guise of all you pretend to be....*

posted November 04, 2012 09:49 AM            

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Originally posted by pire:
But be careful of the monster you wake up in the process. Cause human beings are notnaturally inclined to giving the other cheek. And at some point, especially during economic crisis like in the 30's, this type of discourse can get out of proportion. People have lost their job and struggle but on top of that they are lless considered than people from other countries? Hell no. And it leads to tragic decisions. So your resentment is not an act of peace in present days. It is like adding fuel on a fire.

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You know the tragic situation is when:

- A citizen breaks their back trying to pay their bills while others have 12 babies.

- When an illegal pops out 6 kids who get into universiies, while the person ehre for years barely makes the bills let alone be able to pay for his childs college education.

- That reverse discrimination against the educated and the honest is rampant and somehow to people like you something of a norm.

- That people are run over by illegals and we have no way of doing the victim;s family and justice.

- That they take up room in our schools that we obviously have NO room for and divert our resourses away.

The tradgedy is that people are stealing from the mouthes of hardworking citizens.....Right out of their mouthes and all you can say is *Suck it up bub*.

posted November 04, 2012 09:56 AM            

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Originally posted by pire:
Can u not appreciate the chance u have?
If u have papers, do u realise that even in case of a war on your soil, you'd be one that is saved, cared for, a citizen?
While others do not have this chance?
Did u realise having those papers give u the chance to do all that those people are looking for doing? Like starting a business, raising a family, owning a roof....
immigrants live with the fear not you. Rejoice for that.

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Dude, that is a thing that my family EARNED by going through the process.

Your argument is very illogical, that is like me saying to a person who drops out and to a college graduate: Hey college graduate arent you happy you get a decent wage? Be happy that you are able to pay the welfare fee for this drop out on drugs and with 5 babies. You should be grateful and happy.

Or that would be like saying to a mother who decided to have 2 kids and one that decided to have 10 kids: See, mother of 2, you should count you blessing that you dont have to feed 10 kids. Look at that poor woman who CHOSE to have 10 kids. She can barely take care of herself, pay the bills, and relies on assistance for everything. Poor her. LEt me feel sorry for her and tell you, the woman of 2 kids, to suck up you anger that you have to pay for the idiot who made those incorrect CHOICES.

While I am better off, that is the common sense conclusion. You work hard; you play fair; you keep your head to the ground; you get ahead.

You steal; you cheat; you lie; you will have a ****** life.

posted November 04, 2012 10:01 AM            

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Originally posted by pire:
I'll reply to your questions in different post due to my technical problem

[QUOTE] Should we start paying people in other countries ot stay out of ours? 

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It doesn't have to be said with tthis tone as if it was a stupid idea. First, aids already exist. Every developped country has a budget for helping poorer countries. Let's check how the money is spend. Besides, if we invested more money and helped develop those countries, I bet much less migrants would take the risk to leave their families and homeland for some money they just can't have at home. But is it in the interest of businesses here to get new rivals?
Lastly, western nations owes that to those countries having dispossessed them from their wealth for centuries and having organised the current economy that is still largely oriented towards benefiting the west. I think of monocultures in african countries destined to the export while the native have no land to develop an agriculture that feed the country while developping it. [/QUOTE]

Now I see why you have this backward mentality.

No we do not owe to prop up any other goverment. Do you see any other country worried about propping up a nation? No.

Everyone is in it for themselves.

Why should a wealthy successful nation have to support a country like Pakistan or India for example? Why? To each his own. If they dont have the balls to clear out their own corruption and start a revolution then they just dont have it in them.

Have you heard of Darwin;s theory?

Have you even been to a third world country?

You cannot think that by buying a meal for a few kids will solve the solution to povery. What you suggest is that a group of people rather than work hard, figure things out for themselves and prove their mettle themselves, that they should be given crutches and coddled.

posted November 04, 2012 10:02 AM            

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Originally posted by pire:
We'll let my dad rest in peace. However being a worker myself, a single male, I pay for everything. I am taxed on my salary, I pay fuel for my car, vat on my food....
I don't see your point. It is already taken from my salary. Now the question is "is the money spent wisely". U mention banquets organized by the state. Same here. I don't like that. Nor I like money given to big companies to attract them to sttle in france for example. My point of view is not that we lack money but that it needs to be spend wisely (and humanly)

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posted November 04, 2012 10:06 AM            

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Originally posted by pire:
  you and I see the issue from different standpoint. I would help improve economic conditions in their home countries so the bulk of the economic immigration would be diminished. Besides, I would simplify the possibilities for people to come and go like it is the case within EU countries. Fir example I lived in the UK but i am french. It was as simple as moving cities with my country thanks to E U. And now i am back in my country. Well did u know that africans in france rarely get their permit renewed? Legals the
n. What happen if they fall in love, buy a house or anything?
My point is that the illegals that want it should have the permit to stay and live openly. That way they would naturally contribute to the country. And if they decide to become citizen, I would help them integrate our society. But my foreign policy would essentially oriented towards improving their economic conditions at home.

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Ok so now the country does not get to select quality migrants. INstead the country should take anyone off the street that raises his hand.

Let us see, drug dealers? gangsters? pedophiles? murderers? spies? convicted criminals? rapists? terrorists?

I mean since with your idea we should not even think about where and of what grain these people are....only that they want what we have and we should be giving it to them...

posted November 04, 2012 10:21 AM            

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Originally posted by pire:
U make no sense cause if they are illegals they don't benefit social welfare so they don't cost anything to the country. Regarding skilled or unskilled, I disagree. I don't think it is easier for skilled people to come in france. But even though, I don't see that as a good thing considering they could help improve their country instead ofbeing used by mine.
Moreover, unskiled worker, which as human beings should be treated equally, regardless of their knowledge, do jobs that natives don't want. I worked 3 months in a slaghter house when I had no other choice. But there most of the people were black africans. I do think they were legal so the exemple is maybe not appropriate but i swear u can't find native french who want to work their lufetime in those conditions with the same wage from start to finish.

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They dont cost a thing? Who am I debating this point with? Are you educated?

QUOTES FROM THE ARTICLES:
- Illegal alien migration into the United States costs American taxpayers $346 billion annually reported by the National Research Council. While employers of illegal aliens rake-in billions of dollars, the US citizens subsidize what may be called organized "Slavery in 21st Century America."

- Another estimated 100,000 illegal aliens arrive each month without jobs.

- "Immigrants are poorer, pay less tax, and are more likely to receive public benefits than American citizens," said Edwin Rubenstein, reporting on the National Research Council's new book: "The New Americans: Economic, Demographics and Fiscal Effects of Immigration." The Social Contract Winter 2007-08. <http://www.thesoicalcontract.com/>www.thesoicalcontract.com

http://rense.com/general81/dtli.htm

posted November 04, 2012 10:22 AM            

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Originally posted by pire:
U make no sense cause if they are illegals they don't benefit social welfare so they don't cost anything to the country. Regarding skilled or unskilled, I disagree. I don't think it is easier for skilled people to come in france. But even though, I don't see that as a good thing considering they could help improve their country instead ofbeing used by mine.
Moreover, unskiled worker, which as human beings should be treated equally, regardless of their knowledge, do jobs that natives don't want. I worked 3 months in a slaghter house when I had no other choice. But there most of the people were black africans. I do think they were legal so the exemple is maybe not appropriate but i swear u can't find native french who want to work their lufetime in those conditions with the same wage from start to finish.

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1. Illegal aliens in the country from Latin countries-------24,757,617

2. other illegal--------579,102

3. Money wired to Mexico since 2005------$29,019,436,023

4. Money wired to Latin America since 2001-----$258,436,913,000

5. Illegal alien social service cost since 1996-----$397,454,862,000

6. Child of illegal in public school--------5,031,276

7. Cost of illegal K-12 since 1996-------$14,082,852,000

8. Illegal incarcerated--------420,343

9. Cost of incarceration since 2008-------$24,281,865,978

10. Anchor babies since 2002-------4,302,619

11. Skilled JOBS taken away from citizens-------11,579,072

12. Illegal alien fugitives in USA-------740,298

FACTS ON COST

In 2002, households headed by illegal aliens used $10 BILLION DOLLARS more in government services( the usage COST HAS INCREASED HEAVILY in 2010) than they paid in taxes. And, the COST IS MUCH HIGHER in heavy illegal alien populated geographical areas as California, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and Louisiana.

If illegal aliens were given amnesty, the fiscal deficit at the federal level would grow by over $29 billions. With the approval of Obamacare to give FREE health care to the illegal aliens, the national debt over decades will be exceeding 22 trillion dollars.

Illegal immigration is costing each taxpayer about $2,174 each. In states with high concentrations of illegal aliens the amount is much higher(California, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, and Louisiana.)

Amount of dollars going south in 2006 was $45 Billion, which has risen to 350 billions. All that money left the US economy was not used here to create additional job opportunities and stimulate the economy. Hence, this is an immense net LOST of TAX REVENUE to the US economy.

Heavy Burden on the SSA: Illegals of questionable SS status (by 2050, 300,000 ILLEGAL Mexicans) will be in the system at a cost projection of $650 million annually to the taxpayers who has payed to the system(these illegals did not contribute, yet they are drawing from SSA.)

REAL COST in dollars: each Illegal alien will result in a $100,000 net annual cost to taxpayers. In REALITY, that's costing the country TRILLIONS of dollars so far.

Illegal immigration brings in an influx of poor, unskilled, and uneducated people along with all their inherent problems and infectious diseases. That is an importation of about 10 million high school dropouts. They generate a welfare state in which cause a heavy demand on TAX revenue to take care of their human service needs. Additionally, they takes away jobs from our youth & citizens.

The largest component of illegal aliens, originate from Mexico, and Latin America.

COSTS By ILLEGAL ALIENS

NOT ONLY ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION HAS BANKRUPTED OUR ECONOMY,also it has debased our educational system, it has raised our health insurance premium, it has bankrupted medical centers, illegal alien drivers endangers our highway & byways, illegal aliens' heavy usage of human services has raised our taxes exponentially, illegal aliens spread contagious diseases, they commit crimes & homicides & rapes & mayhem, they demoralize social values, they use our legal systems against citizens & government, incarceration of illegal alien offenders increased financial burden on the state, they cause racial unrest, they draw from retirement they did not contribute to--bankrupting our retirement system, money are send out of the country not supporting our economy or generate JOBS, they pollute our streets with drugs that kills or children, illegal alien criminal fugitives endangers the environment we lives in, they have destroyed acreages & acreages of forest lands at the cost to the taxpayers of 5.1 million dollars, they caused displacement of 18,880,000 American workers or take away skilled jobs from citizens, and many, many more...

SUPPORTING ILLEGAL ALIENS IS NOT A SOUND FISCAL POLICY!!! ILLEGAL ALIENS HAS BANKRUPTED THE CURRENT CALIFORNIA STATE ECONOMY in which California IS MORE THAN 30 BILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT !!!)

Hence, ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION' DEMANDS ON OUR ECONOMY has caused CITIZENS' TAXES to escalate enormously to pay for ILLEGAL ALIENS' immense demand for human services.

.....SUPPORTERS of your campaign, since ILLEGAL ALIENS & ALL the Latino political factions has thrown their weights behind you(as THEY IDENTIFY YOU ARE A SUPPORTER OF RIGHTS FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS), clearly tells us YOU ARE NOT ON THE SIDE OF AMERICAN TAXPAYERS.

YOU DO NOT QUALIFY until YOU know how to be an AMERICAN & SIDE WITH AMERICA first.

posted November 04, 2012 10:28 AM            

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Originally posted by pire:
Last thing, I didn't go to a thirld word country but I did a degree in african studies and politics. I learned swahili, learned about cultural and political issues in africa and political theories and international relations. I have been disgusted by the way the world is ran so things don't change too quickly. and so I decided to help myself first and then those I love. May be it is because life was generous enough with me that I was able to get this education, that I paid for myself btw, not my parents. This education opened my eyes. And honestly I may not had been that open minded had my dad lived. I would have become a scared, uneducated farmer like everyone in my ancestry before my dad. But I enjoy my open mind today cause I have no fears when I see people. I wish u this feeling too.

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Listen you misintrepret me. I have people in my family that own land and farm in India. It is not that I feel that they are somehow beneath us. I have seen them struggle. I know there are lots of latino farmers legally here and struggling.

It is that in comparison, I would rather have someone either a farmer who is legally here than an illegal one.

It is better for the environment and this country.

Whether you choose to believe that since he is poor he has the God given right to steal and do as he pleases is up to you. I dont find that a criminal such as an illegal and especially the ones harboring and/or paying for them deserve any respect or sympathy.

I just do not see how someone who flaunts the law, has the gall to march on our streets while we feed and clother their anchor babies has ANY right.

Having said that I tend to believe that educated families tend to push their children to get a degree and high paying jobs. That helps this nation in terms of taxes and reduction in petty crime.

I feel that there is more vulgar crime aka murders, rapes etc in those groups that remain uneducated. So it is better that if given the option select educated migrants to come to this country.

posted November 04, 2012 10:30 AM            

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Originally posted by pire:
Oh I had missed this post, sorry.

Well I am lost, where are u from exactly, just to clarify cause one page 1 I thought u saidu were west india n which to me mean from west indies which I thought was being from the caraibbeans. But here on this post u talk about indian. I am confused.

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