posted November 04, 2012 06:38 PM            

Illegal immigration is a BIG problem here, there really isn't any denying that despite how you feel about who lived here first hundreds of years ago.

It's not the only problem. Jerry Brown is an idiot and a crook. His current prop 30 which plans on raising sales tax on our already HIGH sales tax and to raise taxes on 'millionaires" who he calls people making over $250,000 per year is a joke. He outright lies and says it's for schools but the prop doesn't say anywhere it is for schools. It's to help fund his high-speed rail line which was grossly misrepresented when the voters agreed to it years ago.

We have the most unfriendly business climate, businesses and financially successful people are leaving in droves for Arizona and Nevada where there are more reasonable tax rates. We are the TOP welfare state with 12% of the population but 33% of the welfare recipients in the country. We have some of the worst schools in the country but our teachers are paid the highest and it's almost impossible to fire teachers that abuse kids because of the unions. We have entire cities filing for bankruptcy because they can no longer afford to pay for public worker overtime and pensions. California has a $16 BILLION budget deficit. We spend the most per prisoner than any other states. From the 1985 to 2005, California's population grew by 10 million, while Medicaid recipients soared by seven million. Tax filers paying income taxes rose by just 150,000.

Yeah... The state is disproportionately Democratic. It's a microcosm for what can happen when there is no balance in politics and when politicians are bought by unions and pander to people that believe they are entitled to everything.

posted November 04, 2012 08:25 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Dreaming111:
With all your thumping for illegals here I would love to know what [b] you have been doing for this country. SO what have you done if anything for this country? Where do your loyalties really lie? Yeah, I dont think being a fanatic illegal supporter is better than being a loyal honest citizen who voices his or her problem against illegals mooching off the hard work of others.

Where do you see yourself as helping this country? I would love to know what makes you think that by supporting illegals that you in some twisted way are helping this nation, the idea of justice, hardwork and fair play.[/B]

---

I've contributed a great deal as a citizen of this country and have dedicated my life toward community development and supporting advocacy programs and progressive movements. I've volunteered in addition to working a full time job for a good portion of my life. I've done as much as I can to reduce my own carbon foot print by recycling, donating clothes and books on a yearly basis, consuming biodegradable products and supporting green energy programs and grass roots environmental movements through donations and volunteering. I've worked on many fundraising campaigns through my life including a fundraising campaign that raised thousands of dollars for Hurricane Katrina victims and children's organizations.

I've volunteered at homeless shelters, community centers, AIDS Hospices, and food shelters. And I currently work for an organization that is fighting against the spread of HIV/AIDS and providing free healthcare to those infected locally, nationally and globally, with clinics all over the world. An organization who puts humanity first and politics last.

Why have I done all this? Because if I want to the world to change I've got to be the one taking an initiative. It doesn't do anything to complain, because all you'll accomplish is wasting your own time and unfortunately the time of those forced to listen. I'm not an illegal immigrant supporter I'm a human being that realizes everyone deserves a fair chance. I've faced a great deal of discrimination towards myself and my culture however that doesn't stop me from trying to do as much as I can to help those who can't help themselves. Especially if they've contributed to the positive growth of this country. There are many things that have had an impact on why California is in it's current state. It's completely inaccurate to blame one issue especially considering this is a huge state being impacted by many different things.

posted November 04, 2012 08:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MoonWitch:
I live in California.

It's not the only problem. Jerry Brown is an idiot and a crook. His current prop 30 which plans on raising sales tax on our already HIGH sales tax and to raise taxes on 'millionaires" who he calls people making over $250,000 per year is a joke. He outright lies and says it's for schools but the prop doesn't say anywhere it is for schools. It's to help fund his high-speed rail line which was grossly misrepresented when the voters agreed to it years ago.

We have the most unfriendly business climate, businesses and financially successful people are leaving in droves for Arizona and Nevada where there are more reasonable tax rates. We are the TOP welfare state with 12% of the population but 33% of the welfare recipients in the country. We have some of the worst schools in the country but our teachers are paid the highest and it's almost impossible to fire teachers that abuse kids because of the unions. We have entire cities filing for bankruptcy because they can no longer afford to pay for public worker overtime and pensions. California has a $16 BILLION budget deficit. We spend the most per prisoner than any other states. From the 1985 to 2005, California's population grew by 10 million, while Medicaid recipients soared by seven million. Tax filers paying income taxes rose by just 150,000.

Yeah... The state is disproportionately Democratic. It's a microcosm for what can happen when there is no balance in politics and when politicians are bought by unions and pander to people that believe they are entitled to everything.

---

I agree. I have no idea why he added this prop 30. It does come off as fraud.

What about the property tax that goes to the schools in the first place? Even in this recession our property values are far higher than the rest of the country.

Are they mismanaging the funds set aside for schools? Or are they stealing from it to pay for other expenses they havent been able to regulate?

I cannot understand how we are even afloat.

I agree 250,000 in California is middle class pay in relation to the costs. I am sorry but generally that is a household income and for 4. And those that make this much are also the ones still paying off their college education, mortgages, investing in their kid;s futures, trying to keep their small mom and pop shop afloat.

Sadly these are the people that are vilified and compared to the real criminals, who loot the nation.

These are the same responsible people, who are told..er no enslaved and forced to cough up more money for someone, who willfully decided it was better to drop out of high school, work at Wendy;s, and have 4 kids with 4 different baby daddies.

Unbelieveable.

I feel like I would like to get into politics and reward only those, who actual are responsible, hardworking and fair.

Everyone else can learn from the facts of life and either get their act together or realize what Darwin;s theory is all about.

posted November 04, 2012 09:19 PM              

grandson goes to a great public school.

the man in the street gets to vote on constitutional and social issues, props and measures etc.

we have one of the 3 senators who tried to rewrite the NDAA to make the language crystal clear in protecting our rights of habeas corpus that almost everyone in congress didn't care about.

our local employment rate is one of the highest in the country, and plenty of hardworking latinos are in the workforce.

plus it is beautiful. i have no problem with people moving away...more for the rest of us to enjoy!

posted November 04, 2012 09:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by katatonic:
well i live in california too, though you couldn't make me live in the southern part of the state.

grandson goes to a great public school.

the man in the street gets to vote on constitutional and social issues, props and measures etc.

we have one of the 3 senators who tried to rewrite the NDAA to make the language crystal clear in protecting our rights of habeas corpus that almost everyone in congress didn't care about.

our local employment rate is one of the highest in the country, and plenty of hardworking latinos are in the workforce.

plus it is beautiful. i have no problem with people moving away...more for the rest of us to enjoy!

it is incumbent on each and every voter to acquaint themselves with the bills and candidates here where we have so much say in our governance. "the price of freedom is vigilance...and responsiblity"

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posted November 04, 2012 11:14 PM            

We'd be struggling to buy a million dollar 900 sq foot house, though. So, yes, we have a spectacular view but our business is still taxed and regulated in ridiculous ways that inhibit growth.

California is also still 47th in spending per student in the country. I think that's disgraceful and completely unnecessary.

But we sure did need that $68 billion dollar high speed rail (that isn't really high speed and won't be ready for another 40 years) to San Francisco, huh.

posted November 05, 2012 12:02 PM            

quote:

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He outright lies and says it's for schools but the prop doesn't say anywhere it is for schools. It's to help fund his high-speed rail line which was grossly misrepresented when the voters agreed to it years ago.

---

This is a false accounting of Prop 30.
http://www.californiachoices.org/ballot-measures/proposition-30#in-depth

posted November 05, 2012 03:02 PM            

Education need not mean probability of crime is low. Simple cases as mentioned below show that the worst crimes in the Western World have been committed not by the uneducated nor by illegal immigrants but by the well educated, "legal" citizens.

1. Ted Bundy: Legal, well educated US Citizen.

2. Bernie Madoff: Legal well educated US Citizen.

3. Anders Brievik: Educated, Legal Citizen of Norway.

4. Paul Bernardo: Educated, Legal Citizen of Canada.

5. Sergeant Robert Bales was certainly not an uneducated Hispanic. Gunned down 17 unarmed Afghan Civilians while on duty for Uncle Sam's "Peace Keeping Force".

6. The "Joker" of Aurora was a highly qualified neuroscientist.

7. Adolf Hitler was certainly no uneducated illegal immigrant in Austria.

8. Uneducated Illegal Immigrants did not transport millions of slaves from Africa, more than a quarter of whom died on the way or soon after landing.

Only by a compassionate understanding of why illegal immigration occurs can the problem be resolved. As far as Divine Law is concerned, all the Illegal Immigration so far is yet to account for a fraction of Iniquity done on US Soil prior to the US Civil War.

Balance will be achieved. Aid, technology transfer, immigration [legal or illegal].

There are good Occultists also in the establishment. They will see to it that the scales are balanced safely. Either aid/investment in the infringing countries will be made to prevent illegal immigration, or all the illegals will be made legal [without benefits] in the coming years.

Alternately, a permanent work permit sans benefits to any Continental American will be issued. This step will actually stimulate huge growth in USA and benefit all citizens as the immigrants will pay a payroll tax or service tax without being a burden on legal citizens. And they will spend in the USA too, double stimulus, karma balanced, everyone will be happy.

posted November 05, 2012 04:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by iQ:
<<
I feel that there is more vulgar crime aka murders, rapes etc in those groups that remain uneducated. So it is better that if given the option select educated migrants to come to this country.
>>

Education need not mean probability of crime is low. Simple cases as mentioned below show that the worst crimes in the Western World have been committed not by the uneducated nor by illegal immigrants but by the well educated, "legal" citizens.

1. Ted Bundy: Legal, well educated US Citizen.

2. Bernie Madoff: Legal well educated US Citizen.

3. Anders Brievik: Educated, Legal Citizen of Norway.

4. Paul Bernardo: Educated, Legal Citizen of Canada.

5. Sergeant Robert Bales was certainly not an uneducated Hispanic. Gunned down 17 unarmed Afghan Civilians while on duty for Uncle Sam's "Peace Keeping Force".

6. The "Joker" of Aurora was a highly qualified neuroscientist.

7. Adolf Hitler was certainly no uneducated illegal immigrant in Austria.

8. Uneducated Illegal Immigrants did not transport millions of slaves from Africa, more than a quarter of whom died on the way or soon after landing.

Only by a compassionate understanding of why illegal immigration occurs can the problem be resolved. As far as Divine Law is concerned, all the Illegal Immigration so far is yet to account for a fraction of Iniquity done on US Soil prior to the US Civil War.

Balance will be achieved. Aid, technology transfer, immigration [legal or illegal].

There are good Occultists also in the establishment. They will see to it that the scales are balanced safely. Either aid/investment in the infringing countries will be made to prevent illegal immigration, or all the illegals will be made legal [without benefits] in the coming years.

Alternately, a permanent work permit sans benefits to any Continental American will be issued. This step will actually stimulate huge growth in USA and benefit all citizens as the immigrants will pay a payroll tax or service tax without being a burden on legal citizens. And they will spend in the USA too, double stimulus, karma balanced, everyone will be happy.

---

By the very nature of being educated and leading double lives I can see how the educated can commit horrific crimes. I can see how they have little motive and more means to commit them as well.

In no way do I think that any criminal is better than the other. If it needs to be said I think people who have no real motive and yet choose to kill are far more disgusting than someone who kills to rob another. I dont care for either scenario but I think a rich man or an educated man committing these crimes is the bottom of the pit.

Having said that, there are studies that like education and income to crime.

You cannot strawman this by listing the likes of ted bundy and say that should be enough to prove that education has no role in crime.

That would be false, incomplete and very narrowminded. Above all, one who has partial knowledge is far worse than one who has none. You need to really do some research and actually know both sides before only pasting banners that support you. It shows that you like to live in lies. Rather you like to spread content that is not factual. False propoganda.

Here are some links that would help open your eyes to the other side that you have thus far chosen to be closed off to.
http://www.justicepolicy.org/images/upload/07-08_REP_EducationAndPublicSafety_PS-AC.pdf
http://ftp.iza.org/dp5000.pdf
http://economics.uwo.ca/faculty/lochner/papers/educationandcrime.pdf

posted November 05, 2012 10:56 PM            

Dreaming - I will first say that I am sorry that you are hurting. It must be frustrating to see an area and people which you clearly love hurt by the actions of others.
Though I will ask: Would you consider it to be a constructive use of resources to deport those illegal immigrants guilty of crimes and educate those (and their children) who are here peacefully, attempting to construct a better life?

In northern Virginia, we do not have quite the influx of illegal immigrants as you do in southern California (proximity, I'd imagine, plays a part), but some of the loveliest neighbors I had while I was a single Mom in lower income (though not subsidized) housing were not here legally - lovely, that is, once they came to the conclusion that I wasn't going to turn them in.

I would sooner see their children become educated and productive members of our society than attempt to uproot their families.

Shifting topics, re: nativism and protectionism: These hurts will only move the conversation so far.
The human story is one of migrations, wars, rapes, and slaughters. It has not often been pretty.

posted November 06, 2012 01:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mockingbird:
I have only just peeked in on this thread, so forgive me if I'm addressing something already brought up:

Dreaming - I will first say that I am sorry that you are hurting. It must be frustrating to see an area and people which you clearly love hurt by the actions of others.
Though I will ask: Would you consider it to be a constructive use of resources to deport those illegal immigrants guilty of crimes and educate those (and their children) who are here peacefully, attempting to construct a better life?

In northern Virginia, we do not have quite the influx of illegal immigrants as you do in southern California (proximity, I'd imagine, plays a part), but some of the loveliest neighbors I had while I was a single Mom in lower income (though not subsidized) housing were not here legally - lovely, that is, once they came to the conclusion that I wasn't going to turn them in.

I would sooner see their children become educated and productive members of our society than attempt to uproot their families.

Shifting topics, re: nativism and protectionism: These hurts will only move the conversation so far.
The human story is one of migrations, wars, rapes, and slaughters. It has not often been pretty.

The best that we can do is to help as we can where we can and to harm as little as we may manage.

---

What would you say to the people who waited years and paid lots of money to get here legally? Actually what do you say to the people who are STILL waiting to get here legally?

posted November 07, 2012 08:09 PM            

State income tax in California is now 13% and we have the highest sales tax.

It's outrageous. Outrageous.

Wealthy people and businesses are already leaving California. What, exactly, will keep them in California now if they don't HAVE to be here?

People are only so willing to pay a premium for 'nice weather'.

posted November 07, 2012 10:44 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MoonWitch:
And...

State income tax in California is now 13% and we have the highest sales tax.

It's outrageous. Outrageous.

Wealthy people and businesses are already leaving California. What, exactly, will keep them in California now if they don't HAVE to be here?

People are only so willing to pay a premium for 'nice weather'.

---

Actually it is true. How long can this last before the ship breaks and people call strike?

I mean, let us face it....people at the lower rung are generally not lifting this economy. If there is a better state then definitely people will try their best to set up shop there.

Also with the increase in income tax they added and increase to the sales tax....for schools.....What did they do with the property tax? What is it always?...

----*Let us work to help children further their education and repair leaky roofs. Vote yes to raise taxes.*----

Puhlease, gimmie a break. Leaky roofs? Really? What are the kids jumping on the roofs? I never had a leaky roof in my life.

Jeez people can be so naive and gullible.

And you know what, it is true...brain drain will occur and a better place more conducive for equality will emerge.

Hopefully I will move out of here soon. It isnt that great anyways. More taxes and more crime...No thanks.

Disappointed that the people with lower incomes get to vote on how the people of higher incomes have to pay. Sounds silly. And if you think about the logic.....then with the prop 8 people should not be voting on someone else;s agenda....same with income.

No one should vote on another groups; rights....